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4 Why don't jet engines detonate ? 

AgentJayZ
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Why is it, that with up to 50:1 compression in modern jet engines, and all the heat that creates, that they do not have a problem with pre-ignition, or detonation, or knocking?

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9 фев 2018

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Комментарии : 330   
@toysareforboys1
@toysareforboys1 6 лет назад
When people send me mail with weird names on it I just print some business card with that name/address on it and say to the post office "hey look, it IS me!" and it always works.
@stevemoore12
@stevemoore12 6 лет назад
That was really cool of that guy to send all that across the globe.
@JaredElliott1
@JaredElliott1 6 лет назад
Mr. Z, I have been enjoying your videos for many weeks now. I really enjoy the way you explain things and make it easy for folks to understand. I've learned a great deal about turbine engines. Keep up the great work!
@johnziegelbauer4999
@johnziegelbauer4999 6 лет назад
Love watching your channel , my son just joined 400 sqn. last year . The history of our airforce and engines makes me proud of being a Canuck.... keep up the great work.
@tolissailor
@tolissailor 6 лет назад
Some rough translation of the posters 1) It's the "banner" of the aeroclub of Vatili (founded in 1968 I guess) (Αερολέσχη) and bellow their moto "Power through force" 2) the same but of the aeroclub of Cyprus 3) pretty obvious (on the bird-plane says "action" and on the fumes "reaction" ) 4) describes this bird-like flying device, made from copper and constructed in 369 BC by the greek admiral-mathematician-philosopher "Achytas" from southern italy (Taranta) propelled by steam without him knowing the 3rd law of Newton (actionreaction) 5) bernoulli principle and such
@johnpekkala6941
@johnpekkala6941 6 лет назад
Basically a jet engine is just like a blowtorch, a continous flame and since the process is continous there can be no knocking since there are no cyclic explosions happening requiring that components are in the right position before they occur like a car engine. When a car engine knocks it basically tries to force the crankshaft backwards again since the piston have not yet reached the top/turnover position yet when the explosion occurs and this backward/forward slamming can potentially damage the engine really bad like bending the crankshaft and piston rods, damaging the bearings ect.
@Armafly
@Armafly 6 лет назад
Thanks for your videos. I like the way you simplify and breakdown otherwise complex concepts. At same time you remain humble and genuine. Enough reasons for me to subscribe...
@voyager7
@voyager7 6 лет назад
Love the channel, the engines, the information and Canada!
@robertlee9395
@robertlee9395 6 лет назад
In 1970 in America, you couldn't get a Polara with a leaning tower of power slant six, you had to get a 318 Agent Jay-Z! Lol
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Sorry. I was daydreaming about an ancient memory. Me, Casey and Andy were told that if we could get it to start, we could have a '64 Polara that was sitting in a field... for free. Slant six, and a push button automatic. Life was good.
@St0RM33
@St0RM33 6 лет назад
Wow someone sent something from Limassol, Cyprus! Same city i live!
@BRZDR
@BRZDR 6 лет назад
Hello from Canada!
@ASJC27
@ASJC27 6 лет назад
Jet engines compression ratio cannot be directly compared with piston engines because they are defined differently. In a piston engine compression ratio is defined as the ratio of volumes (i.e. - defined in terms of density) while in turbine engines it is defined as a pressure ratio. Therefore you need to "translate" one to the other. To convert the piston volumetric compression ratio to a pressure ratio you need to raise it to the power of gamma (the specific heat capacity ratio - 1.4 for air). So for example a high performance NA gas engine with a 12.5:1 volumetric compression ratio (Ferrari 458) translates to 12.5^1.4 = 34:1 pressure ratio. A high performance turbocharged gas engine with a 9.5:1 volumetric ratio and 1.8 bar of boost (Ferrari 488) translates to (101325 + 1.8e5)/101325*9.5^1.4 = 65:1 pressure ratio. With turbo diesels these numbers would be higher still. As you can see when comparing "apples with apples" piston engines are generally "ahead" of jets in terms of compression ratio - but it doesn't mean anything since they are completely different in operation. The point however is still correct in that preignition is not a thing for jets because the burn is continuous and doesn't need to be timed to a moving piston.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
You appear to know something about these things, but please be prepared to be corrected - as I once did a very senior engineer at R-R. The term compression ratio is incorrect for gas turbine engines: the term is pressure ratio.
@ASJC27
@ASJC27 6 лет назад
Yes I know. I only used it to show that the terminology and definition is different without calling it by a different name but I probably should have stuck to pressure ratio vs compression ratio.
@maurovidal2941
@maurovidal2941 5 лет назад
Very nice sir I fully understand 😊😊😊 thank you
@christostsatsaris8185
@christostsatsaris8185 3 года назад
These are emblems of greek squadrons
@prancstaman
@prancstaman 6 лет назад
I was taught that a jet engine was a one continuous cycle engine. Awesome tutorial on how they work. 15% rpm, then fuel, or you'll get a shunt start, I think it's called. Looks like you got a #1 fan too. :) Cool stuff he sent ya.
@josephnwizugbo4631
@josephnwizugbo4631 6 лет назад
Hey Jay, I'm loving the videos. Keep it up!
@KSparks80
@KSparks80 6 лет назад
Waited until BEER:59. That's some dedication there! lol
@sihyeobly2648
@sihyeobly2648 6 лет назад
Wonderful professor ^^
@flycol26
@flycol26 6 лет назад
Dear AgentJayZ, many thanks for the time you're spending to explain in details all these things work, I'm an airline pilot, I fly B737NG and also B767-300ER and I love watching your videos to have a much better look inside of the engines! once again Thanks a lot! best regards from France
@michaelmurray7199
@michaelmurray7199 5 лет назад
flycol26 just like with cars, planes are much easier to understand when you know about their inner workings.
@pgeorgiadis2
@pgeorgiadis2 6 лет назад
It looks like you received some gifts from an aeroclub in Cyprus. I am Greek. I can help if you need something translated.
@christostsatsaris8185
@christostsatsaris8185 3 года назад
That's the spirit
@hoverhead047
@hoverhead047 6 лет назад
18:1 would be your turbo charged direct injection diesel. At 23:1 would be your normally aspired indirect injection diesel.
@hispanicuscorpus
@hispanicuscorpus 5 лет назад
All your video have giving enough information to build me a mini turbine
@darioinfini
@darioinfini 6 лет назад
Hey AgentJayZ, if you're working on merchandise, consider putting jet girl on a t-shirt. It might prove popular with your fans :) And congratulations on your honorary degree. I've learned SO MUCH about jet engines watching your videos. You're a natural jet professor.
@TheTomBevis
@TheTomBevis 6 лет назад
I remember there being a big hoorah about the great mileage of fuel homogenizers for car engines, back in the 60s and 70s. Just a few problems with them, like blowing the top of the engine through the hood if you ever had a backfire.
@LitchKB
@LitchKB 6 лет назад
For pre-ignition to apply, the system must have (a) a state of no combustion and (b) a determinate time and state where ignition /should/ occur. Because the Jet engine effectively sprays fuel directly into an ongoing combustion chamber, the only time ignition occurs is when the unit is first starting up - combustion then (ideally) lasts until it's shut down.
@akhileshkumaryadav9545
@akhileshkumaryadav9545 6 лет назад
thanks
@233kosta
@233kosta 6 лет назад
2:28 That's a de Laval nozzle made up of what appear to be two aerofoil sections. The choke point seems to be in the right place but I'm not sure what the colours are supposed to represent.
@AndrewBeveridge461
@AndrewBeveridge461 6 лет назад
With a port injected supercharged or turbocharged engine, you'd have "compressed" air and fuel traveling from the injector down the runner through the intake valve and into the cylinder, but that is a short distance and the overall pressure is still relatively low. A 10:1 compression engine is going to have roughly 150-200 PSI of pressure at the moment when detonation could occur. Compare that to say, 20psi max on a port-injected, forced-induction motor and you can see why the mixture doesn't detonate prior to the compression stroke in the cylinder. This also explains part of why the newer direct-injection motors can run much higher boost levels - the fuel/air mixing can be much more precisely tuned and avoid the chance of a hot spot from which detonation could occur.
@bondisteve3617
@bondisteve3617 6 лет назад
Yey! Thanks.
@philslab7029
@philslab7029 6 лет назад
Is it that the compressor / turbine sections are not shown in the diagram? Also, looks like there's no temperature gradient on the compression side of the diagram. As in ... it doesn't show that the air is warmer at the outlet of the compressor than at the inlet.
@welltell.
@welltell. 5 лет назад
That last picture looks like a scram jet engine.
@jhyland87
@jhyland87 4 года назад
Hah... Thats _exactly_ what i was thinking...
@palker4
@palker4 6 лет назад
You should mention that compression ratios in jet engines relate to pressures while reciprocating engines use volume ratios to indicate compression
@paulsalvestrin7253
@paulsalvestrin7253 4 года назад
It's a constant pressure cycle. There are no variances in chamber volumes or ignition sources.
@steve8567
@steve8567 6 лет назад
That honorary degree needs to go 'straight to the pool room'. Joke for Aussie viewers (from the film, The Castle)
@53jed
@53jed 6 лет назад
Best thing is, he's much more precise in his language than most of Australia's perfessers. That is one well-deserved honorary degree.
@Phoenix-ej2sh
@Phoenix-ej2sh 6 лет назад
@2:27 - It's a divergent nozzle and would make no thrust?
@flyfaen1
@flyfaen1 6 лет назад
Would if you fueled it with hydrogen, towed it up to Mach 5 or so, and injected the fuel in the exact correct position ahead of the nozzle neck and if made of materials that would survive it :p (It's called a Scramjet - Supersonic Combustion Ramjet - and YES they are hard to make)
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
It 's great to take a look at the cross-sectional GA of the Iroquois: I always enjoy poring over engine GAs. For me, however, the only illustration that might beat a GA, in terms of interest, would be a pretty-coloured diagrammatic GA of the internal/secondary air systems. I have kept my counsel until now, but I can't help myself commenting on the combustion chamber. It bears an uncanny resemblance to Armstrong Siddeley's annular combustion chamber for the Sapphire and later engines, with those double right-angle vaporisers (replacing the original candy canes or hockey sticks) and secondary air tubes/chutes in the head of the chamber. The design of the ASM vaporiser arrangement and its development in an annular combustor was/is credited to Pat Lindsey and Sid Allen, for whom I worked in my very early days at R-R IMD. I wonder what 'technology transfer' there was and in what direction? I will also comment with detached professional interest on two other facts: i) the LP compressor is 'overhung' and ii) the HP turbine bearing is an intershaft bearing.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
grahamj9101: I wish more people would read / understand your comments.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
I try to write most of my stuff to help your subscribers understand, but on occasions I also write for you, with your greater knowledge.
@r0lski
@r0lski 6 лет назад
What happened to the Orenda Iroquois you were building? Did you manage to get enough parts to get it running? Was looking back at the old videos recently but note it wasn't complete in the last one.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
It has not been completed, but remains in storage as a static display.
@dinosaurcomplaints2359
@dinosaurcomplaints2359 2 года назад
Thanks JZ, I’ll have to watch the article and cure my educated ignorance. Thank you!
@perrydiddle3698
@perrydiddle3698 3 года назад
Congratts! (A much belated one.)
@juzztime
@juzztime 6 лет назад
My First Car Mazda RE Capella coupe ! I have been Watching & enjoying your Videos for years & now I find out that your a bit of a Rotor Head too :) keep up the good work Oh & i still drive Rotaries
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
My first car was a 1970 R-100, which I've come to realize was fairly rare. I should have kept it, but it had the same fuel economy as the space shuttle...
@juzztime
@juzztime 6 лет назад
Nice, i have worked on a few R100's in my time, I still build Rotaries & i Still have my Capella coupe & I drive an RX8 too and yes they have the fuel economy of the space shuttle with my right foot lol. Like my Canadian Cousin in law says " keep it cool man"
@nmccw3245
@nmccw3245 6 лет назад
My second car was an RX-7. Loved that car, it loved premium gasoline.
@zapfanzapfan
@zapfanzapfan 6 лет назад
The fuel economy of the space shuttle (at least per passenger mile) was actually rather decent considering it could take 7 people 200 laps of the Earth :-)
@bobschultz2895
@bobschultz2895 6 лет назад
Could you have a discussion on ratio of the inlet nozzle from the compressor to the exit nozzle going to the turbine Or could you show a Compressor nozzle beside a turbine nozzle of a LM 1500. It seems like it would have to say how much the air and fuel expands after the fuel has burn. The velocity of the air through the nozzles would also make a difference. Or maybe you can talk about size of the final blades of the compressor compared to the first turbine blades. Maybe that would be relative to the compression ratio.
@mcfast52
@mcfast52 6 лет назад
The newer jets have high compression but the older ones where pretty low and the RC jet engines are really low, like 7 or 8 to 1 not very efficient a med size RC jet burners 2 liters of fuel in around 13 minutes, but are still fun as hell!
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
The Orenda Type 14 is about 7 to 1 compression at full rpm. Modern turbofans are over 40 to 1 at takeoff power.
@superpachin
@superpachin 5 лет назад
It seems to me that in a way, unlike with piston engines, we do the "priming" of a turbojet with air, instead of fuel. That allows a more controlled combustion as the video explains. (maybe this is a bad analogy)
@jimsvideos7201
@jimsvideos7201 6 лет назад
The logo with the bird is that of the Greek (Hellenic) Air Force.
@larryfischer2972
@larryfischer2972 6 лет назад
Until I went to Canada in 1986, I never knew what a zed was, and I found out completely by accident.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
And I suppose that you've never learned the correct way of writing the date as: Day, Month, Year?
@larryfischer2972
@larryfischer2972 6 лет назад
They didn't teach us metric.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
That's the way we've done it for years in the UK, long before we went metric.
@clydecessna737
@clydecessna737 6 лет назад
Back in the glorious days of HMS Ark Royal (R09), I believe the RN used to spray gycol into the intakes of jet engines as they were spooling down (I think after the fire was out) to reduce corrosion. Is this a good proceedure in a maritime environment? Should I copy it on, say, an Allison T63-A-5A ?
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Engines which are to be stored for more than 30 days without being run are typically preserved by fogging the inlet with a fine corrosion preventing oil as it winds down after fuel cutoff. You can make a suitable fluid out of WD40 and about 1/3 engine oil. A T63 would need about a tablespoon of that sprayed in. Next startup will be a little smoky. This does not eliminate the need for covering the inlet and exhaust, and for storing the engine indoors.
@WDGFE
@WDGFE 6 лет назад
AgentJayZ, does that cause any issues when it comes time to restart the engine? Does it require any pre-cleaning to clear out some of the oil?
@skrame01
@skrame01 6 лет назад
Mr Z, do you have a video explaining the forces and stresses on the individual components ? I am amazed that the casings dont just split wide open after running at 600psi and 3000F with 20,000 lb axial load and 30,000 ft.lb. torque applied to them!
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
The structural outer casings do not experience temperatures anywhere near 3,000degF.. Even the turbine casings are typically cooled by a small flow of compressor delivery air.
@marior001
@marior001 6 лет назад
Jay 1.-if the 50 to 1 air compression when you inject fuel it would burn automatically because fuels/air mix will auto ignite at that pressure ? 2-- What is the purpose of the igniter (electrical ) does this mean that when in low rpm it could be possible that compresión is not good enough so it needs a spark to ignite? (I assume 1 spark igniter per combustion chamber or fuel nozzle) 3.- what is the psi pressure generated by the fuel pumps you have already shown in other videos .. I assume there’s a way to prevent air to enter to the fuel pump/lines in order to prevent an explosive mixture
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
There is no place where non- burning fuel is mixed with air. This question is looked at in detail in a recent video: why jet engines don't detonate. It's not a good idea to apply piston engine thinking. .
@billsheppard9368
@billsheppard9368 6 лет назад
During abnormal states like compressor stall or surge, would there be anything definable as detonation? Just curious.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
I would never lie to you guys. No detonation. No explosion. Doesn't work that way.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
OK, so let's be careful about our terminology. When a full-blown surge happens, there's a transient reversal of the flow through the compressors, flames briefly shoot out of the intake of the engine, accompanied by a loud 'bang', which potentially can be heard miles away. However, it's not a 'detonation' and it's not an 'explosion': it's simply the sudden release of the pressure in the combustor. It can happen multiple times and you will find several instances of it happening on RU-vid. I tell the story of waiting for a flight at JFK years ago, when a CF6 engine on a DC10 suffered three rapid surge events on take-off. The 'bangs' could clearly be heard right across the airport.
@scsilveradoss
@scsilveradoss 6 лет назад
I can't wait to order a JetCity or J79 or afterburning a snowman hoodie!
@TomarenaiEraserRain
@TomarenaiEraserRain 6 лет назад
I don't know why I'm still comparing this but it seems more comparable to a Diesel engine than a petrol. Simply by injecting fuel into the pressurized combustion chamber and instantly combusting it. Glow plugs would be your igniters. I guess it's just my way of digesting your lessons. It helps me understand why things are happening/designed the way they are. I'm careful to distinguish that jets and pistons are different. Thank you so much for continuing to share so much technical know-how from your experience working with jet engines!
@makecba
@makecba 6 лет назад
Legin Sreep not even close to a diesel. There's no autoignition of the fuel, there's no injection timing, there's no need to preheat the engine using the glowplugs. As AgentZ said, they're just different.
@dremwolf5419
@dremwolf5419 5 лет назад
JayZ, just to run out to left field, would the "fire" in a Pulse Jet be a detonation?
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 5 лет назад
That would be combustion. Detonation is an often misused term with a real technical meaning. Another term often misused by piston people is explode. The fuel air mixture in a piston engine does not explode. Like in a jet engine, it burns and expands.
@dremwolf5419
@dremwolf5419 5 лет назад
@@AgentJayZ That makes sense on the pulse jet. I agree on the air fuel mixture not exploding in an internal combustion engine.
@MichaelDabish
@MichaelDabish 6 лет назад
"freeze frame that buddy" lol so Canadian 🍁
@Guysm1l3y
@Guysm1l3y 6 лет назад
Ha ha exactly. It'd be great to see AvE hang out with AgentJayZ for a day but I think they're on opposite sides of Canada.
@Jwood737
@Jwood737 6 лет назад
@AgentJayZ Great topic. Would another way of explaining your reasoning here be to say that it's because the combustion process here is continuous? Whereas in a piston engine it is intermittent? By the way, I am an ATPL(A) student from the UK just about to sit my Aircraft General Knowledge exam. A large section of the syllabus is Turbine engines. I'm finding your videos really useful in learning the material for the exam. It will also be good to have this understanding when I come to actually operating the machinery! Many thanks
@Jwood737
@Jwood737 6 лет назад
Ok, just heard you pretty much say that at about 10:30! Maybe I should be patient and wait until the end of the video next time!
@moonasha
@moonasha 6 лет назад
picture looked like a ramjet to me. Didn't pause though so not sure!
@philslab7029
@philslab7029 6 лет назад
@AgentJayZ FYI You can get an app for your phone that will translate the text for you using the camera on your phone.
@olafzijnbuis
@olafzijnbuis 6 лет назад
Use the Google Translate App. It can do OCR (Optical Character Recognition) from the image of the camera viewfinder.
@frankus54
@frankus54 6 лет назад
Time for the Agent Jay merch. Step 1. an artwork competition.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Oh... in a couple of days, sir... you will be happy!
@frankus54
@frankus54 6 лет назад
The Agent Jay CFM56 cigeratte lighter?
@rhysmodica2892
@rhysmodica2892 11 месяцев назад
To my knowledge, pre-ignition is different to detonation. Pre ignition occurs because the fuel air mixture is going off before desired usually due to hotspots or lean mixture. Detonation however occurs because the mixture is too lean and has no real heatsync by means of fuel around it. Therefore it burns unpredictably and doesn't propagate down the cylinder. Jets working similar to diesels in that fuel is only mixed the instant it's needed means pre ignition can't occur. Jets always run lean from what I read since it merely burns the fuel it needs. But what stops it from burning explosively like in detonation. Surely the oxygen rich environment will also lead to high temperatures risking unpredictability?
@tyymclarenfan
@tyymclarenfan 6 лет назад
J which jet engine did Donald Campbell use in bluebird that went across the connison lake?
@Nighthawke70
@Nighthawke70 6 лет назад
Rolls-Royce RV12 12 cylinder engine, not a jet at all.
@tyymclarenfan
@tyymclarenfan 6 лет назад
Nighthawke70 thankyou i always wondered what was used, as a team recently brought the bluebird out of the lake and are restoring the bluebird
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
Sorry, but you're wrong, Mr Nighthawke 70. Donald Campbell originally used his father's K4 hydroplane, which was powered by a Rolls-Royce 'R' racing engine, dating back to the Schneider Trophy contests. However, that was wrecked in 1951. He then came up with Bluebird K7, which was powered by a jet engine. I have the impression that it might originally have been powered by a Metrovick Beryl engine, but I could be wrong. Bluebird K7 was subsequently fitted with a Bristol Orpheus engine for more thrust, and this is the engine that was powering it in January 1967, when Bluebird K7 and Donald Campbell tragically met their end on Coniston Water. There's a couple of very good accounts on Wikipedia, if you care to check them out. For the sake of historical and geographical correctness, I'm going to be pedantic here (I usually am). Donald Campbell both met their end on Coniston Water. It's an old catch question for English geographers: "How many lakes are there in the English Lake District?" The answer is "One". In the English Lake District, there is only one lake, Bassenthwaite Lake. All the others are either Waters or Meres, plus a few small areas of water known as Tarns.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
AgentJayZ, I'm going to leave it to others of your faithful following to comment on that venturi thing, which appears to be masquerading as a jet engine. In these days of political correctness, I wouldn't dare say, "it's all Greek to me." What does concern me is that, with the wing profile shown above the venturi, it might be peddling the fiction that a wing works like "half a venturi". I've mentioned before that my son was told this by a retired airline pilot, as part of his pilot training ground school. And, as I've said before, thank goodness the wings that he flew with knew how they worked, because he didn't.
@williamreymond2669
@williamreymond2669 6 лет назад
12:50] How about at start up? when ignition may not be fully established all of the way around the turbine. Possibility of problems??
@williamreymond2669
@williamreymond2669 6 лет назад
I forgot to add, is there a certain confining effect of the flame front at the fuel nozzle that is due to the fact that everything is already hot, up to temperature, and burning, but may not be that way at engine start up???
@williamreymond2669
@williamreymond2669 6 лет назад
8:43] I guess I'm about to get the answer to the question I was anticipating all along.
@williamreymond2669
@williamreymond2669 6 лет назад
9:15] Now I know I was anticipating explosion correctly if you get things out of order at start up!
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
Elsewhere I've mentioned that the nearest I've been to a 'hard' start of an engine was on a combustion test rig, when we were testing the altitude light-up and cross-light capability of a new design of cannular combustor. The second combustor was slow to light up, which it finally did with something of a 'thud', and which we most definitely felt. I'm not aware of any reports from service of similar 'hard' relights after an in-flight shut-down, but it's perfectly possible.
@Dreamer3K
@Dreamer3K 6 лет назад
I Love the "chuga chuga chuga" just "wosfhsfhsfshsfh" its called and open system or open cycle or streaming.
@mikekmalick
@mikekmalick 6 лет назад
Does the air when compressed self ignite before any fuel or the after burner fuel is introduced???
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
When you spray fuel into a fire, would you say the air is self igniting?
@brynclarke1746
@brynclarke1746 6 лет назад
No, air cannot maintain any combustion with itself, which s a good thing too as it means the sky can't catch fire
@marior001
@marior001 6 лет назад
To ignite you will need 3 elements temperature fuel and oxigen fuel could Be compressed but without oxigen it should be able to ignite since it needs to be mixed with oxigen to be oxidated
@williamchamberlain2263
@williamchamberlain2263 4 года назад
You're not going to get air to ignite into combustion at any temperature or pressure regime, as far as I know, because all the non-O2 molecules in air are chemically stable or fully-oxidised, so there aren't any chemical reactions they can undergo which are exothermic.
@dremwolf5419
@dremwolf5419 5 лет назад
Wouldn't a compressor stall with flames belching out the inlet be a detonation?
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 5 лет назад
A stall is not a detonation. Burning fuel, even in the wrong place, is not a detonation.
@dremwolf5419
@dremwolf5419 5 лет назад
@@AgentJayZ Well with your back turned to your jet when it burps it sure makes you react like it was a detonation. DANG that was loud!!! Especially when you see the fireball out of the corner of your eye! :>) TF30 is loud no matter which way the flame is moving.
@Coltgov191145
@Coltgov191145 5 лет назад
@@dremwolf5419 Deflagration and detonation are two ways energy may be released. ... If the explosion moves outward at supersonic speeds (faster than the speed of sound), it's a detonation. While the action of deflagration is to push the air in front it, objects do not explode because the rate of combustion is relatively slow. When a shock wave is created by high explosives such as TNT (which has a detonation velocity of 6,900 m/s), it will always travel at high, supersonic velocity from its point of origin. if a shock wave is not produced it is considered deflagration
@metskipper
@metskipper 4 года назад
Wankel- - 1 power pulse per revolution! Love your show. Fun to watch too!
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 4 года назад
The Wankel engine produces three power pulses per revolution.
@soulsonjones5842
@soulsonjones5842 4 года назад
A Wankel engine produces three power pulses per rotor revolution, but rotors are geared 1 to 3 with the eccentric shaft (also known as the drive shaft). By that, there is one power pulse per revolution of the drive shaft per rotor. So both of you are correct.
@metskipper
@metskipper 4 года назад
@@soulsonjones5842 Yeah! just like a 2 cycle, except it has more efficient scavenging! Pretty short stroke too, so it needs revs to make HP.
@Bazzawombat
@Bazzawombat 6 лет назад
It seems the US Postal Service has been taking lessons from Australia Post:-)
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Canada Post... One of our national treasures. They are about to have some fun... stay tuned, brother!
@lasersimonjohnson
@lasersimonjohnson 6 лет назад
Jay, what is the significance of "653" on your shirt ?
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Shop next door to me is owned by a guy who races quads in the Best in the Desert series. I gave him a set of tires for winning the Vegas to Reno. That's his number.
@sethjensen54
@sethjensen54 6 лет назад
What is wrong with the picture? I am going to guess that on the intake side the air would increase in velocity but the pressure would decrease, and on the exhaust side, assuming you could get it to combust, there would be no thrust.
@matman7546
@matman7546 5 лет назад
Preignition is not synonymous with detonation. It can, however, lead to detonation in a piston internal combustion engine. Detonation is a combustion regime characterized by rapid combustion of a fuel/oxidizer mixture that is driven by a supersonic shock wave. This causes a violent, rapid cylinder pressure spike which may damage components. The desired combustion regime is deflagration, which is characterized by a subsonic, slow moving (
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 5 лет назад
On this channel we are never speaking piston. Turbine engines do not experience detonation.
@matman7546
@matman7546 5 лет назад
AgentJayZ I was explaining detonation in the context of a piston engine because people seem to think it is the same as preignition
@dinosaurcomplaints2359
@dinosaurcomplaints2359 2 года назад
However, thanks to you I now have a picture in my cranium of a stream of air with a bubble in the middle.
@talldrumgirl
@talldrumgirl 5 лет назад
Can you relate this topic to f84 start up? Thanks
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 5 лет назад
What? Could mean anything, so means nothing.
@talldrumgirl
@talldrumgirl 5 лет назад
F84's if I recall correctly had a start sequence that involved a gigantic boom at the introduction of fuel on start up. I always assumed that unlike all the turbine gear I've run they did some kind of intentional "detonation" at start instead of the common "just start burning" thing either by modulated fcu or a mechanical or in modern times digital fuel derichment profile.etc. I was just wondering if you had any insight on how the F84 (I don't know what engine they used) differed on startup and wondered if this might be an occasion of a detonation like event being taken advantage of. Sorry to be so terse.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 5 лет назад
That is not detonation. It's an accumulation of fuel that goes boom when ignition finally happens. It was very common with the engines back in the day. The J47 and the Orenda 14 do that all the time. It took me ten seconds to find out that the engine used by the F84 was the J35. Claimed to be the first American axial compressor turbojet, it looks a lot like the J47, which appears to be a slightly improved design. All those old time engines lit off with a woof. You see how being a bit more specific pays off? Your original request was far too vague, but your second one was great!
@dragancrnogorac3851
@dragancrnogorac3851 6 лет назад
So an modern engine got 40 to 1 compression ratio so at ground level it's 40 bar pressure but at 15 kilometres upp there at 2000 km/h ram air speed. how much pressure is in combustion chamber?
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Airliners travel at about 900 Km/hr, not 2000. Ram air helps the compressor do its job, but does not change CDP. Combustor pressure is slightly less than CDP. Burning the fuel heats the air, but does not raise its pressure.
@who88777
@who88777 5 лет назад
Shouldn't Charles’ Law imply that heating the air increases its pressure? Or do you mean there is a net decrease because of outflow from the exhaust?
@brynclarke1746
@brynclarke1746 5 лет назад
@@who88777 Jet engine combustors are designed to be as close to constant pressure as possible - the expansion takes place as acceleration of the flow instead - and in practice there is always a few % pressure loss
@jhyland87
@jhyland87 4 года назад
Ok mr riddler...
@myriandominguez
@myriandominguez 6 лет назад
I wonder if in the new jet engines , because of the heat generated, the last stage(s) of the compressor are made from the same material as the turbine blades. Anyway, totally addicted to your channel. Some serious binge watching going on.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Yes... the last stage of compressor blades in the LM2500 are made from an Inconel - like alloy, because the titanium alloy that the other stages are made of can't take the heat.
@MarkTillotson
@MarkTillotson 6 лет назад
Yes, final stages of airline compressors are nickel superalloys from the diagrams I've seen. 50:1 compression makes for very high temperatures! There's a nice colour-coded diagram of a RR Trent 800 I've seen where the last 2 compressor stages are nickel alloy (previous ones being titantium blades, titatium or steel stators)
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
The rear stage blades/vanes of the HP compressor of the Olympus 593 in Concorde were in Nickel alloy, as were the rear stage discs (Waspaloy, as I recall).
@zapfanzapfan
@zapfanzapfan 6 лет назад
Have modern airliner engines reached the same compression that the Olympus 593 achieved at Mach 2 yet?
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
They are getting close, approaching 60:1. But don't forget, at Mach 2, a lot of the compression was done by the aircraft intake, with a pressure increase from under 2lb/sqin to 9lb/sqin in supercruise at 58,000ft. This resulted in an air inlet temperature at the front face of the engine of 127degC. The engine itself still had a pressure ratio of around 13.5:1, from memory. Doing the math(s), that gives just over 60:1, but I recall hearing nearer 80:1 quoted by a performance engineer. I will try checking the quoted P/R for the engine.
@Sketch1994
@Sketch1994 6 лет назад
It says "Aeroclub (of) Vatily, 1968, Power via the force". PS: The second one says "Aeroclub of Cyprus". I can't really read the third one but it says about the evolution of use of thrust from the steam powered pigeon to the date and time man first landed on the moon. The fourth one describes the operation of the depicted 369 AD ancient steam powered pigeon in old Greek and the last one is about Bernoulli duct nozzles (I'm pretty sure it's a Venturi though) of wet or dry fuel rockets and how they share the basic design with ramjet and pulse engines (I couldn't find a focused frame here either).
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
You are awesome, and you said the magic word... Nobody else has called it that yet.
@Sketch1994
@Sketch1994 6 лет назад
Thank you...Are you referring to Venturi?
@edwardwhetsell3149
@edwardwhetsell3149 6 лет назад
I get it that jet engines produce a constant combustion as opposed to the cycle of piston engines. But what about the V-1 buzz bombs of WWII? Sometimes referred to as pulse jets? I could never get a clear understanding of how they worked. It seems that they produced intermittent thrust, is that right?
@RobertSzasz
@RobertSzasz 6 лет назад
Edward Whetsell they use a combination of a valve that prevents backflow, and a resonant chamber so each pulse draws new fuel/air mix in as it exhausts.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
There are a couple of reasons they are not used for anything...
@RobertSzasz
@RobertSzasz 6 лет назад
AgentJayZ hey, that's not fair. They are still used as heaters to generate lots and lots of warm/hot air. (I think the German tank corps used them?)
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
...pulse jets as heaters? I would be amused to see that. What a waste... squared... I'm laughing on the inside, and not with you...
@RobertSzasz
@RobertSzasz 6 лет назад
AgentJayZ ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dHxjRPUQGvI.html That reply was a bit rude. I wasn't the one who built the damn things.
@wsthankyou
@wsthankyou 6 лет назад
Hi Jay Question, please help me understand. Can you do a video on this? What would be the compressor to turbine blade ratio to get a 10:1 - 50:1 compression? How many blades to each? What would be the pressure at the last stage of the compressor... Pressure in the combustion chamber... Pressure at the start of the turbine... Is the pressure at the turbine... 2, 3, 4 times that of the last stage of the compressor?
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
Sorry AgentJayZ, I can't resist coming in on this one, as we've been here before. There is NO pressure increase in the combustion process of a gas turbine engine operating on the Brayton Cycle. In fact there is a pressure loss of a few percent of the pressure at (HP) compressor delivery. The pressure at turbine entry is essentially the same as that in the combustion chamber(s) and the pressure reduces progressively through the turbine stages. Having been brought up with piston engines, many years ago, I got this wrong at an interview for an apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce, Derby.
@wsthankyou
@wsthankyou 6 лет назад
grahamj9101 Thank you for the reply, is there a difference between the last compressor stage and the combustion chamber? Combustion chamber would be less?
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
In my jet engine diagrams series, one of the diagrams we look at is a chart showing pressures along the gas path of a turbojet. You might like it.
@wsthankyou
@wsthankyou 6 лет назад
Thank You Jay, I will watch the jet engine diagrams series.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
Take a look at AgentJayZ's diagram: that gives you the basics. And yes, there is a pressure drop from compressor delivery and across the walls of the combustion chamber(s). There has to be a reasonable pressure difference a) to ensure sufficient penetration of the air into and mixing in the combustion process, and b) to ensure adequate cooling of the combustion chamber walls.
@legendarysideburns2213
@legendarysideburns2213 6 лет назад
2:30 The fuel/air mixture wouldn’t have enough pressure to burn because of the lack of a combustion chamber.
@maxheadroom5778
@maxheadroom5778 6 лет назад
i'll ask my CEO for permission to test it.... ;-)
@TheDave570
@TheDave570 5 лет назад
It seems to me that the air flow is always "moving" so at no time is there a pool of stagnant air in which a high enough pressure can take place !!
@WarpedPerception
@WarpedPerception 6 лет назад
HAHA !! My first car was a rotary Too !! RX7
@alanhardman2447
@alanhardman2447 6 лет назад
My first rotary was an R100 Mazda. Never had a more solidly-built car. Loved it.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Me too!
@sonotthere
@sonotthere 6 лет назад
it looks like there is no flame holder also no fule injection
@bmunson76
@bmunson76 6 лет назад
Exhaust is larger than the intake
@snaproll94e
@snaproll94e 6 лет назад
Sounds like your explanation of how not to start a turbine engine is the only way to backfire and detonate one, lol. So, normally the propagation of the flame front is controlled by the engine design, ignition sequence and fuel delivery system. Get them out of sequence and bad things could happen. As you were talking about the fuel nozzle and flame, I was picturing an oxygen, acetylene torch tip. I know it's different burning in free air but I was wondering if there could be some scenario if, like when you shut off the acetylene on a torch, you could create a pop in a turbine engine? I guess the abundance of air flow keeps this from happening .......if you were to shut off the fuel flow at wot.
@RobertSzasz
@RobertSzasz 6 лет назад
snaproll94e its highly design dependant as to what exact conditions will cause it but, turbines can backfire/surge under the (wrong) conditions.
@legendarysideburns2213
@legendarysideburns2213 6 лет назад
I asked a question a while back, I guess I didn’t word it properly. If instead of using fans to compress the air, a gas turbine engine used a centrifugal compressor, rotary screw compressor, or a piston air compressor, how would it compare to conventional gas turbine engines?
@Mishn0
@Mishn0 6 лет назад
Some jet engines, (Rolls Royce Nene for one) did use centrifugal compressors. I think a lot of APU type engines use centrifugal compressors too. The Caproni Campini used a piston engined powered compressor ahead of a gas turbine. I'm guessing a rotary screw compressor would need to be HUGE to provide enough air and would be far too heavy to fly. There's also one more compression option: ram air compression such as in a ram jet like the Bomarc used and like the engine of an SR-71 works when it's at speed. I'm not sure where the engine in a V-1 "Buzz Bomb" fits, it used shutters at the front that opened to admit air and then closed to contain the expanding gas and direct it out the exhaust when the fuel was burned. Axial flow is probably just the most efficient for the applications it's used for. If another type is better for a certain job, they'd use that. Engineers don't arbitrarily choose one or the other, there's always a reason.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Centrifugal compressor engines are successful, and have been used as aircraft turbojets in the past, and are currently very widely used as turboprop. A rotary screw or piston compressor are both quite limited in their capacity, so have to be very large in proportion to their combustor. Plus the turbine spins much faster than either of those two types of compressors. It could be made to work, but would be more complex and much heavier than the axial or centrifugal compressor engines.
@AndyYankee17
@AndyYankee17 6 лет назад
A lot of turboprop engines use centrifugal compressors or turbines instead of axial. Screw and piston compressors probably aren't used because they're efficient across a broad range of RPMs instead of super efficient at a specific RPM.
@legendarysideburns2213
@legendarysideburns2213 6 лет назад
AgentJayZ Thanks for the reply, it cleared up misconceptions that I had.
@grahamj9101
@grahamj9101 6 лет назад
You could even use a diesel engine, instead of a 'conventional' gas turbine HP spool: it's been done. Check out the Napier Nomad engine. In its day, it was probably the most efficient aero engine around - but it was too heavy and too complicated.
@dinosaurcomplaints2359
@dinosaurcomplaints2359 2 года назад
Ok, pardon me JZ, when you said “detonate”, I never thought to compare it to a reciprocating engine. Two totally different means of operation
@jm-ux5dk
@jm-ux5dk 6 лет назад
To translate anything even Chinese and other symbolic writing open up Google translate on your phone and it will allow you to use the camera to translate in real time.
@big-mc
@big-mc 6 лет назад
Can't have knocking if you don't have Pistons to knock :p
@DeliciousDeBlair
@DeliciousDeBlair 6 лет назад
Right or wrong, I always label jet and rocket engines as 'monocyclic through flow' engines.
@alanhardman2447
@alanhardman2447 6 лет назад
Delicious DeBlair - Good call, that monocyclic thing. However, the single cycle does have all four of the distinct events - i.e. intake, compression, ignition/expansion, exhaust. That's why calling a two-stroke engine is wrong, wrong, wrong! And yet, oil companies do it all the time. And yes, two-strokes also have all four events, just controlled differently and in fewer strokes than the typical automotive internal combustion engine.
@nobody1841
@nobody1841 5 лет назад
How does it go into reverse
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 5 лет назад
Search... thrust reverse... ... ...
@Len_M.
@Len_M. 5 лет назад
AgentJayZ I’m sure he is to lazy. They don’t reverse, ducts open and the Air (thrust) is directed forward.
@micstonemic696stone
@micstonemic696stone 2 года назад
i would love to buy the Sabre jet with jet city on Dad gave me a leather brown motorcycle jacket with AVIATRIX CLASSICS on not sure if related too I would be so proud with this addition on
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 2 года назад
If you go here: www.redbubble.com/people/Agent-JayZ/shop you can get a lot of things, but they don't make embroidered patches, unfortunately.
@micstonemic696stone
@micstonemic696stone 2 года назад
@@AgentJayZ thank there great
@Milosz_Ostrow
@Milosz_Ostrow 6 лет назад
+AgentJayZ - The closest thing to a detonation in a gas turbine engine is a "compressor stall" or "compressor surge", which, like detonation in a reciprocating engine, is a sudden, explosive event that can cause flame to come out of the inlet and can cause engine damage. I'm sure you know all that, but you didn't state it in the video.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
It is most definitely not an explosive event. Please refer to my video about compressor stall. It's called Compressor Stall.
@Milosz_Ostrow
@Milosz_Ostrow 6 лет назад
There's a short Boeing training film here on RU-vid wherein it is described as an "explosive" event. See ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MQWYhsYfMxE.html.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
You're drifting here. The word we started off discussing was detonation. I will not follow your drift off course. Thanks.
@ronaldshepard4625
@ronaldshepard4625 5 лет назад
@@AgentJayZ Dear Sir, if I understand this correctly the compressor and the turbo fan are connected with one shaft and they spin at the same speed. Are there any engines made that would use a planetary gear system to change the speed of the compressor to spin faster? Isn't that the whole idea to try to force more air into the combustion chamber? So once the engines up and running you could use a planetary gear system to speed the compressor fan faster then the turbofan. Or is there just not enough power to do such a thing?
@shonny61
@shonny61 6 лет назад
When are you guyz gonna finish that Iroquois, eh?
@systemshock869
@systemshock869 4 года назад
What is the simple answer to 2:25??
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 4 года назад
The shape of the internal gas path is exactly opposite to what it really is... in a real engine.
@systemshock869
@systemshock869 4 года назад
@@AgentJayZ I see, thanks a lot!
@fordfreak2007
@fordfreak2007 6 лет назад
Fuel always added after the supercharger. On modern fuel injected engines, That is true as far as I know. Carbureted engines can be done either way though.
@serkanadar6358
@serkanadar6358 6 лет назад
fordfreak2007 Not completely true some systems inject fuel pre supercharger
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 6 лет назад
Even so, the post-charger plenum is filled with fuel air mixture that you don't quite want burning just yet...
@WDGFE
@WDGFE 6 лет назад
I think the closest (but imperfect) reciprocating analogy would be a direct-injection engine, assuming they spray after the compression cycle. My explanation: A typical reciprocating engine can detonate because there’s fuel present at the compression stage. There’s no fuel at the compression stage to detonate in a turbine.
@todddembsky8321
@todddembsky8321 6 лет назад
Secret AgentJayZ -- Both my first car and airplane were rotary's You wound that rubber band up until almost breaking point, and wah-la rotary power. I really hope they get that darn Apex Seal issue solved and the need to mix oil with the fuel when injected into the combustion space. I loved revving my 1981 RX-7 up to 9,000 and not have one vibration from the engine. That was as close as i got to what I assume a jet engine powered car would feel like when the turbine was in its operating RPM range.
@alexwang007
@alexwang007 6 лет назад
When will you ever make a micro gas generator?😃
@drjzzz
@drjzzz 6 лет назад
"...you are spraying fire with fuel..." poetry.
@dinosaurcomplaints2359
@dinosaurcomplaints2359 2 года назад
I’m not a jet tech, but without watching the article, I would hazard a WAEG, (wild ass educated guess), that the airflow thru the engine is faster than the flame front, (propagation speed). Please let me know if I’m correct, JZ.
@AgentJayZ
@AgentJayZ 2 года назад
Without watching, and a wild guess. Your effort level is matched, sir. I'm out. ( If your guess was correct, the engine would not work)
@233kosta
@233kosta 6 лет назад
The short answer I like to give people who don't have 2 hours is "because they chooch" :D
@utkarshsalunke7170
@utkarshsalunke7170 5 лет назад
I'm from India completed bachelor degree in mechanical engineering and I want to do internship at your garage, I really need this experience. Is it possible??
@magaan4717
@magaan4717 5 лет назад
3 weeks ago you made the entry still no response lol, silence is golden 😂
@jhyland87
@jhyland87 4 года назад
@@magaan4717 maybe hes still thinking it over... Lol
@ghosted2000
@ghosted2000 6 лет назад
7:10 compresionating 🤣
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