448 How to Build an On- and Off-Grid System (Backup Box Hack, Huawei SUN2000, LUNA2000)

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Unstable power grids, planned shutdown of electrical power, or even blackouts: How can we prepare our homes and home automation systems against such events? Today we will cover these topics with the eyes of an engineer, and I will show how I protect our home against short and longer outages.
In part one we protected our homes against short outages. Today, we will protect them against longer outages. I will focus on my PV, but also show how you could use an ordinary emergency generator.
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Опубликовано:

20 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 441

@glumpfi Год назад

This is such a satisfying solution :) It was always a shame in my opinion that so much power is available in emergency situations, but not usable

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I assume newer designs will integrate these possibilities right from the factory. Solar sill is in its infancy...

@peter.stimpel Год назад

I guess, I wouldnt have had the balls for the test of the full electrical instlalation, to be honest. Respect, Andreas.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I also double and tripple checked and waited at least one day before I had the courage of turning the switch;-)

@riz94107 Год назад

I had a solar system put in about 8 years ago, but because I was in the middle of a construction project (and had young kids at the time), I didn't take the opportunity to learn enough about the various tradeoffs. If I had your diligence and taken your structured approach to learning, I would have avoided a lot of mistakes! What has helped me learn was the installation of a much smaller DC-only system with some panels I got cheaply later - nothing quite like building it to learn. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I agree, I always have to use projects to learn! Reading book does not create enough questions for me .

@ivekuukkeli2156 Год назад

Very clever solution. Thanks to Andreas. If somebody needs an motor driven generator, consider also a "tractor power axel driven generator". Old tractors are very realiable motors, and generators can be transported at the hook-up levers at the back of the tractor.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Good solution if you have a garage for the tractor ;-)

@PhG1961 Год назад

Indeed, often reffered to as PTO: power take off.

@ivekuukkeli2156 Год назад

In some country side districts there are several old tractors in barns or open field with a minimal cover blancet. They use their new tractors with 200 hp + 1,7 m front&back tyres also for school trips daily (15 years is enough to drive these monsters).

@robert574 7 месяцев назад

If you have some loads on a UPS (like several outlets fed by a 1000W UPS), fed by some larger batteries that give you some time, you could just feed those batteries with DC from any source, tractor or just an engine or a car, then let the UPS switch back in with the grid and put up the tractor at your leisure. A little automation is required if you don't plan to stay home all the time.

@jamesmichener7526 Год назад

Your single phase to multi-phase back-up hack, works for two phase countries as well. My electrician thought I was crazy until he thought about it.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

It also took us some time because it is a bit "out of the box" for a decent professional.

@ShutterKnack 2 месяца назад

Thanks a lot for sharing this solution, Andreas. Basically you can go off grid on demand and perhaps just get a gas stove for cooking. Wonderful!

@AndreasSpiess 2 месяца назад

Indeed, the gas stove is waiting for the outage…

@johnwest7993 Год назад

I like the 3-phase problem's solution. Well done.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you!

@docwhogr Год назад

astonishing!!! the lengths we go to keep America happy and afloat!!

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not understand :-(

@VolodymyrPavlyuk Год назад

A nice solution for already existing system and I'm glad it works for you. For a bit more than a price of Huawei inverter + backup box you can buy Deye 8kWt hybrid inverter that can provide full-power 3-phase output in off-grid mode. Also Deye inverter supports unbalanced load, so up to 50% of nominal power (4 out of 8 kWt) can go to the load of one phase. Deye uses low voltage 48V batteries which are more universal comparing to proprietary HV batteries. Also Deye has Smart Load output which is designed to prioritize self-consumption over grid export, fir example by dumping excessive solar energy into a hot water tank. Of course that would be a different build, however total price would be similar, wouldn't require external transfer transfer switch, would provide full-power and correct 3-phase output.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

It seems that Dye has a good product. I did not know it. However, as I said in my videos, I wanted a high-voltage battery. And, as an engineer, wasting eletricity to heat water , is a no-go, too. I rather sell it for a cheap price to the community. Electricity is more valuable than 60C water. But charging a car battery would be a perfect application for this function.

@RichardEricCollins Год назад

Engineering and science rocks! This is awesome.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you!

@James-hb8qu Год назад

I recorded "here is the guy with the Swiss accent" onto a solar powered recorder. So I can get a smile on my face even if power goes out for weeks.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Cool! ;-)

@vladimirshatokhin4868 Год назад

MANY THANKS to you Andreas! I was always wanting to have an independency option for my PVs and your solution inspired me on a way to go! Besides the Backup Box, I ordered similar automatic electricity switch from AliExpress (I have a monophasic 3.65 kw SUN2000 + 15kw LUNA battery) and spent few days to correctly arrange all wiring with an electrician. One conflict we noticed is that the system refused to work if a General (not the main entrance) switch was ON on the system. It was conflicting with the one switch on the Backup Box (I guess) so we had to turn it off permanently. Finally the system started to work as on your video, what a relief! Greetings and thanks for sharing :) Vladimir (Portugal)

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Glad it works. Here, unfortunately, I never had the chance to "really" use it because we had enough eletricity during winter ;-)

@jps-ib8vh Год назад

Hi Andreas. I did quite similar things with a transfer switch with the exception that I use a 1000VA USV with external 24V batteries as Voltage source and I cleaned up the phases such that all I want to power ( light, freezers, IT and heating (just 35W for control and pumps) is supplied on one phase. This makes me sure that no dish washer, washing machine is powered in off grid mode thet may lead to overload of the backup power supply. I hacked the APC USV such that it self start when supplying 24 V. This needs just some sequential button presses which I realized with an Attiny controller. So everything is now fully automatical and work without manual interventions.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Cool! So your system is similar to a emergency generator, just without using fuel! Here, we wanted to power the whole home, not only the critical systems with solar because in late February/March when they predict potential power outages, the sun should already produce enough energy for everything (except cooking). So we should be able to live a "normal" live.

@TokkanFX Год назад

This is how all Solar installations should be installed rather than sitting there usless during a power outage.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I agrree.

@cmuller1441 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess There's some safety concerns. If the power is cut so workers can operate on the lines?

@35manning Год назад

@@cmuller1441 the inverter is already detecting grid power loss, so instead of turning itself off why doesn't it just cut the connection to the grid?

@NiHaoMike64 Год назад

@@35manning An increasing number of inverters do just that. In the US, most notable are SMA and MPP, both of which have options for daytime backup without batteries.

@edwardvanhazendonk Год назад

Nice addition to your solar system, great this works.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thanks 👍

@kevinrtres Год назад

Thanks, very interesting. My proposed solution is Sunsynk 8.8kw hybrid inverter, Freedom won 10kwh battery and 7.6kw solar panels - lack of space forces the limit. Everything is single phase and the sunsynk takes care of switching between loads so connection is relatively simple.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I already invested in Huawai. And I need 3 phases in our home...

@kevinrtres Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess I understand. Sorry. Should have been more clear that I'm just sharing what I'm about to put into my own place as contrasted to your installation.

@pjaj43 Год назад

As a UK resident, I envy your 3-phase supply. We only get one phase in domestic installations. But I suppose that implementing your solution would be much easier.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Indeed, you could save two phases of the switch. And the backup box would be simpler (and probably cheaper).

@TishSerg Год назад

I feel that our situation (just 1 phase) is more convenient. No complexities, simpler wiring, you don't have to think how to balance load, etc...

@alanpatterson2384 Год назад

If you need three phases, you can pay for a three-phase supply, but it make your life more complex.

@martinnappert 7 месяцев назад

Thank's a million, I have ordered the transfer switch which, looking forward to testing this :-)

@AndreasSpiess 7 месяцев назад

Hope you enjoy it!

@easyvideo100 Год назад

Hi, many thanks for your inspiring project. It must be noted that, at least in Switzerland, any modification to a house wiring requires the neutral regime to be of TN-S type due to differentiel protection requirements (FI or DDR). Older houses (like mine) were often connected using TN-C (1 wire for both neutral and protective earth PE). No modification to the wiring is allowed unless it is changed to TN-S, so there is no way to setup an Off-Grid backup System. This can be quite costly. So my Huawei SUN2000 will still stop when Off-grid, until we find an economical solution (maybe just setup part of the wiring to TN-S, while having the rest of the house still on TNC, and getting no current when OFF-Grid).

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you for your information. Unfortunately, I do not understand your problem ( I am not "fluid" in house installations). This is why I trusted my electrician and hope, he got it right. There are also FI fuses in the backup box, BTW.

@zazugee Год назад

Earthing and wiring schema is a thorny topic, there are also lot of regulations involved

@TecSanento Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess it's quite easy your Outlet have free wires going to it live, Earth and neutral and his wiring only has two wires - no extra earth pin

@philldonn705 8 месяцев назад

The Backup Box manual from Huawei explicitly forbids connecting to TN-C grid types. However, if the household is wired as TN-C-S then it is perfectly fine. You can't switch to TN-S unless the power company does it for the whole neighborhood supplied from the same source in your area, which would be extremely expensive. The cheaper option would be to change your TN-C system to TN-C-S system where you split the source Neutral(PE) wire into two at the power distribution box at your house. Of course this must be in correspondence with your country's electrical regulations. Another way is to convert to a TT system where you install separate earthing system for your house getting a completely independent protective earthing while you use the source Neutral(PE) only as Neutral. This again must be advised with your local electrical regulations.

@mcflapper7591 Год назад

Nice. That's how I protect and provide the IT@home. :) Thanks.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

You're welcome!

@DarioSolera Год назад

Very interesting solution. Here in Italy, residential customers are usually suplied with single phase 230VAC, so this type of setup would be even simpler to adopt.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Indeed, single phase systems are simpler in many respects.

@lassdaily8334 6 месяцев назад

Great content ! So the UPS will take over the grid when its goes off ? Is there a special UPS for that?

@AndreasSpiess 6 месяцев назад

If you mean the UPS for my lab: It was an Eaton. But it was defective after a short time...

@sharpbends Год назад

Does the transfer switch back automatically to mains power once the grid power is restored ( after a suitable delay ) ?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Yes. I connected it this way.

@Fernando_S Год назад

You may use a VFD (variable frequency drive) to solve the 3 phase problem. Many of them can be supplied by 1 phase + neutral and output 3 phases + neutral. You can also set the VFD to various parameters. This is usually done to power motors.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I agree. But in my home, this would be a solution without a problem ;-)

@rodneysmith1750 Год назад

Super video, really enjoying my front-row seat!

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you for your kind words.

@wjn777 Год назад

Great video, thanks for sharing. I like your approach "take responsibility"

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thanks for watching!

@victorchorques4893 Год назад

Be aware of those chinese ATS. I know mant people reporting reliability issues using it. Thanks for your amazing work making these videos

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Others said the same. I got a 3 phase model instead of one with 4 and Aliexpress refunded the whole amount. So I will do some reliability tests on my bench...

@AerialWaviator Год назад

Having solar and the grid being down was a major source of consumer outrage in Florida after hurricane Dorian (2019), without power being restore for a week, or more. Personally I'm learning that Swiss have 3-phase power supply to residences. Many regions of world only have 2-phase power. Thanks for sharing your learnings.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

In Florida, my system would probably be more valuable ;-) I was there after a Hurricane and saw what it did. Not nice! In Europe, quite a few countries run 3 phases to residential buildings.

@flunkerfunk9880 Год назад

Das ist ja mal ein richtig gutes Video, richtig genial gelöst und kommt zum richtigen Zeitpunkt für mich. Habe einen Growatt Mini 4600 XH mit einer 7,2 kWh Batterie und einer Backup-Box und war am Grübeln wie ich, das hier in einem Dreiphasenhaushalt realisiere. Danke. Bin so froh hier vor einiger Zeit bei diesem Channel die Aboglocke gedrückt zu haben. Danke

@TecSanento Год назад

Haben die growatt nicht einen AC Ausgang? Zusätzlich zum AC Eingang der normalerweise zum Einspeisen verwendet wird? Der Ausgang müsste doch dauerhaft mit Strom versorgt werden, und dann kannst du ja das ganze Haus darüber anschließen

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Ich bin froh dass das Video nützlich war. Wir hatten einige Zeit mit denken verbracht bis wir diese Lösung hatten....

@Phoerixx Год назад

Hi Andrea, maybe I missed it but did you consider a Hybrid inverter. You could check the Growatt systems. I use a SPF5000ES, only 1phase but you have 3P options aswell. The only drawback this system does not netmetering (export to grid) but new hybrid systems with this option exist. All switching from grid to inverter is automatic, the inverter is disconected from grid, If you use correctly sized batteries for storing sunpower 'you are good to go'. just my 5cents. Thank you for your great videos! You inspire! 73

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

My inverter probably is called „hybrid“ ( I do not know the exact definition). It uses solar, manages the battery, and provides 3phase power to my home.

@Phoerixx Год назад

A hybrid inverter does the switching between sources automaticaly. source 1 = PV, 2=battery, 3=grid/disel agregat

@zazugee Год назад

@@Phoerixx my Multiplus also have a transfer switch, but if you have a 3 phase at home and only one phase inverter, you have to use an external ATS

@julienboucaron9780 Год назад

Thanks Andreas for this pretty interesting hack.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

You are welcome!

@rhiantaylor3446 Год назад

Very interesting. Ideally I would have liked to see what happens when grid comes back. Also, I would like you to have identified the "two breakers in seroes" that the electricity suppliers requires - presume one is the changeover switch and the other is part of the Backup Box.

@NamelesGhost Год назад

Having the breakers in series reduces the risk of sticking contacts, thus injecting power back into the grid. He showed them in the schematics.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Nameless ghost is correct. And the switch back is without effects. The transfer switch takes a few milliseconds to automatically switch from backup to the grid. You hardly see it.

@thisoldjeepcj5 Год назад

The transfer switch is the key.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Not only. I think, all parts are needed...

@davidmcgettigan Год назад

From my experience with my install. Basically the same as yours without the transfer switch; the backup output from the backup box is always powered; even when the grid is up.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

In my case (three phases), this would give a big short-circuit. So you are lucky you can do it without transfer switch.

@philldonn705 8 месяцев назад

I believe two important things should be noted for this solution: 1. In this way you connect the whole house load to the backup system. This means the house load should not exceed more than 5kw for LUNA2000(10-15kwH) or 2.5kW for LUNA2000(5kwH). Shorting the three phases means that you support the whole house load and some households may exceed the 5kW(2.5kW) limit which would cause the battery short circuit breaker to activate. Most three phase stoves can operate with a single phase, excluding the oven. This means having only 1-3 burners turned on (or maybe a boiler) will get you close to the 5kW(2.5kW) limit. 2. The L1 terminal in the backup box and source A terminal of the ATS switch should be connected to the same phase. Otherwise in cases where a single phase drops, due to a short circuit break from the sourcing power distribution box for the household, you may get unpredictable behaviors. One scenario is where an inverter goes into off-grid mode but the ATS switch does not transfer to backup power, leaving the household powered with the remaining phases from grid. Another scenario is where the inverter enters alarm mode due to missing a phase for proper operation in grid-tied mode, but the missing phase is not the one that triggers switchover to off-grid mode, this way the ATS switch may completely shut down power to the house although you can power the house with the remaining phases.

@AndreasSpiess 8 месяцев назад

I agree.

@bravotwozero535 Год назад

In Canada we have much the same problem. My plan will use a generator but the only legal way to do it is with a transfer switch and you need to mind the grounding when doing a whole house application as opposed to backup circuits. I only have two phases and can jumper them with an adapter to my generator.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

A generator is a good and simple possibility!

@akretschmann6384 Год назад

Yesterday weve installed a 200kw diesel generator at our company in bern. Just for worst case situations.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Slightly bigger than my installation ;-) But it is scary that we have to do such things in Switzerland.

@PhG1961 Год назад

Depending on the purpose, it might be wise to add a battery pack to close the gap between grid switching. Power generators have a small startup time and a small period of time to produce a stable output. Larger installations and critical infrastructure are not pleased with a delay of 1,5s. The batterypack kicks in first and as soon as the power generator produces a stable output the grid switches to the generator. Very reliable, very expensive too.

@ulistermclane Год назад

Have a look to Sungrow hybrid inverters (e.g. SH10RT). They have the backup box and transfer switch functions integrated and can deliver 3 phases on emergency power.

@jeanyvespochez Год назад

hybrid inverters are the way to go. all you need in one box. don't install something else or be prepared for blackouts !

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

A hybrid inverter is not enough as I showed in one of my earlier videos because it has to switch off (by law) when the grid is off. The SH10RT is the same as my Huawei and needs a STB5K backup-box. It also only provides "emergency power" (info from the homepage of Sungrow)

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@ulistermclane You are right, and I was wrong. The SH10RT has a Backup box built-in. Still, you would need the trick with the switch if you want to feed your whole home (or connect everything to the backup line, which is probably ok because it is very strong). The price is also very ok.

@TrasteIAm Год назад

I have worked a bit with UPSs in hosting servers and datacenters and connecting a UPS to a UPS (daisy chained) is a hard no-no as it can cause critical failures, and seeing that the solar inverter and battery is on a sense working as a UPS here; One threat is that the current draw can cause the upstream UPS to go into an overload condition or distort the output voltage waveform. When this occurs, it can prompt the UPS to detect a power fluctuation, revert to battery power, and continually cycle between the battery and normal operation. Plugging one UPS into another can also spark inverter compatibility issues, where the unit closest to the load doesn’t recognize the other UPS’s power as sufficient. This compels both UPSs go to battery, defeating the intent. Daisy-chaining can also force UPS controllers to work against each other, leading to harmonic distortion on power lines. So... you might want to make sure that this is not that case in your scenario.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you for your input! I am not sure how much your scenarios apply to my case. My small UPS for the computer and the network only consumes about 300W ( constant load). The PV inverter can supply 3kW in backup operation. So I hope that the influence of the small UPS on the inverter is not big enough to create problems. And the small UPS does (hopefully) not care where it gets the energy from. What do you think?

@scrapwomblecreatives6944 Год назад

Very interesting, thankyou. I enjoyed watching it.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

You are welcome!

@FelixImmler Год назад

Hallo Andreas. Ich wurde durch einen gemeinsamen Viewer auf Dich aufmerksam gemacht. Unser Swiss-Alpöhienglisch hat offenbar parallelen 😀 Wowww, dein Kanal ist ja gigantisch! Falls Du mal eine tolle Idee hast, wie man ein Schweizer Taschenmesser mit deinen Skills aufmotzen/umbauen/ergänzen/abändern/elektrifizieren oder was auch immer könnte, lass es mich wissen. Wäre spannend mal eine Zusammenarbeit mit Dir zu machen. Liebi Grüessli vom Bodäsee dä Felix

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Hallo Felix, ich kannte deinen Kanal noch nicht (nun hast du aber einen Subscriber mehr ;-) .Ich habe ja früher immer mein Taschenmesser für die Mailbags verwendet und da hätten wir einen Ansatzpunkt. Allerdings ist diese Videokategorie nicht mehr so beliebt und deshalb habe ich schon lange keines mehr gemacht. Meine Zuschauer haben sich beklagt, dass mein Messer Stumpf ist...

@FelixImmler Год назад

Hallo Andreas. Deine Antwort hat mich sehr gefreut. Vielleicht gibt's ja mal ein Video mit einem micro GPS Trekker ... oder irgendwas in Richtung Funk.... oder Photovoltaik auf der Griffschale... die springende Idee ist mir bislang noch nicht gekommen. Lass es mich Wissen, wenn Du eine tolle Idee hast. Wenn ich mal was baue in mit Elektronik, werde ich Dich mal anfragen ob das spannend sein könnte für Dich. Liebe Grüsse Felix

@tanishqbhaiji103 Год назад

Please take a look at the Deye/Sunsynk inverters

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I hope, I will not need another inverter for the next 10 years or so ;-)

@m.4074 Год назад

Hi Andreas, maybe also good to mention, that 99% of the ovens can be supplied with a single phase. If you have a single phase at the installation place, there are metal bars, which bridges L1,L2 and L3. But in your case you bridged them right away - so your oven would work without any problem :)

@marvintpandroid2213 Год назад

That depends on where you live.

@m.4074 Год назад

@@marvintpandroid2213 probably right :) in my case Germany

@pjaj43 Год назад

@@marvintpandroid2213 In the UK domestic supplies are only single phase in nearly all houses, so Ovens and hobs come with L1, L2 and L3 already linked.

@marvintpandroid2213 Год назад

@@pjaj43 I have fixed a quite few domestic ovens in the UK and never seen the ability to be used in 3 phase enabled either externally or internally and then lnked out. I have seen that on some US domestic units but then only 2 phase. I have only ever seen 3 phase on industrial kit in the UK.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I only switched the oven and the stove on in off-grid and they did not move. Then I switched them off and was happy that nothing was damaged. I anyway never wanted to use them during such a situation (I have a small gas cooker for real emergencies ;-)

@Ben-ld5lt Год назад

Wow, it looks like you know how to party! 🎉 I'm so jealous of your fancy setup; it sounds like you'll be set for any power outages! Thanks for sharing such a cool project. I really like how you've put your whole house (almost) on backup mode. I'm purchasing a 3-phase hybrid inverter (Solis) with backup mode. According to the datasheet, the AC backup port is also 3-phase, which can switch to battery in 40ms in the event of a power outage. I'm not sure how this inverter can be integrated with the whole house. I might need to implement your solution later on.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I also do not know if they are certified to be used on public grids.

@PietRegnerus Год назад

Hello ANDREAS. Can you share an electrical diagram/scheme with us for your solution on- and off-grid system with Huawei components? Thank you in advance. Great video and keep up the good work.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I thought it was quite evident in the video. I do not have a diagram :-(

@juri14111996 Год назад

i plan to use 3 victron inverters, so i whould get 3 phase power even during a grid fail (we need 3 phase to run our wood based heating systems and some other important things). The viscron inverters have the benefit of supliing power without any downtime at all (like offline ups). You can use any Solar inverter with them, only thing you need to make sure is the inverters need to have more capacity than the solar inverter. Once the battery is fully chared the vicron inverters rise the frequency to 51hz to disable the solar inverters.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

My colleague has a similar Victron system. He is happy with it. I think, he has a low-volt battery (or batteries), though.

@dielind0815 Год назад

As I am not really an electrician I have some issues in understanding the ATS-wiring (to be able to discuss with my electrician). My understanding: Source A (upper area): Phases 1-3 are not connected, just phase and neutral on the green connector from Grid. Source B (lower area, upper connector): The phase from the backup-box is connected to phase 1 and also to 2 and 3, right? The green connector is connected to phase and neutral from the backup box. The lower connector on the lower area is the output to the load.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Yes. The Huawei inverter only provides one phase. But I wanted light in all rooms. So I connected this one phase to all phases.

@PhG1961 Год назад

Very interesting, usefull and entertaining. What else? Btw, at 5:38 you metioned that "old motors" won't work in a star configuration because of the rotating field. However, by useing the Steinmetz circuit (adding capacitor to create fase momentum) it is possible. Of course with the downside of losing a lot of power/torque from the motor. I had to come up with this solution several times (air compressor, no 3 phases available). It is however a emercency solution that I would not recommend.

@olafvanes Год назад

With some Variable Frequency Drives it is possible to power smaller 3 phase motors with one phase.

@PhG1961 Год назад

@@olafvanes Indeed, there are plenty of those on AlieExpress etc... Usually for smaller motors. Their price is quite reasonable.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@Philip: As you know, I forgot all these things during the years because I hardly touch more than 12 volt systems. But good to know in an emergency situation.

@PhG1961 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess I'm very fond of 12V systems too and I'm replacing 230V circuits where I can with 12V (or 24V). This goes very well for everything related to lights. Makes it handy for battery backup and legislation is much easier.

@HB9BLA Год назад

@@PhG1961 My radio room (with the exception of the PC) works on 12V, too. But the lab is on different levels... 12V is really very simple: Just connect a LiFePo battery and it works...

@TechnoEveryday Год назад

Great as usual

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you!

@AdityaMehendale Год назад

Hi Andreas, thinking from a DFMEA-perspective: If you ever have an "oh-sh*t" moment (electrocution/fire/etc.) and need to kill power to the house, won't the inverter be a try-hard and override your "main power off" action? How can you easily kill main power in your meter-box , in such a situation?

@al_lazy3519 Год назад

Surely there's a second fuse box after that one that has RCDs and stuff, so he can cut off power from there

@pcfreak1992 Год назад

In most houses (as is the case in his) you have a RCCB/RCBO switch in the circuit. I assume that his failover solution is before said switch, so if he needs to cut the power to the whole house, he could use that switch. Maybe the transfer switch also has a manual override, too.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I have a fuse right at the inverter that I can switch it off manually. And the one I used to cut-off the grid.

@bartroels Год назад

Thanks!

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

You are welcome!

@bagatir73 Год назад

Thank you very much for that super hack :) but would be possible to get more detailed your connection drawing ? Or maybe even video ?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not plan a next video and think, an electrician should be able to draw the needed diagram.

@norr2596 Год назад

Great video, very interesting, but one note of caution... With star-wired 3-phase, the neutral cable may be only the size of a single phase or even smaller, as a balanced load will have no neutral current and most 3-phase devices will have neutral current less than a single phase current (because the three phase angles sum to 0 and the neutral only carries the imbalance). However, you now have all three phases in phase. That means the neutral current will be the sum of the phase currents, so the neutral may be overloaded. I don't think you mentioned that, so take care to check the neutrals are appropriately sized.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I agree. But my inverter only delivers the power of one phase if in off-grid mode (3kW). So it should be ok.

@gytalas Год назад

Hallo Andreas, super Idee, ich überlege das auch umzusetzen. Ich hoffe, dass Ihre Schaltschrank Innenleben normalerweise mit eine auf Maßgeschnittene Abschluss-Deckel auch geschützt ist, sonst ist es sehr gefährlich die Sicherungen oder diese Schalter zu nutzen, da blanke Kontakte zufällig zu berühren sind. BTW: ich folge Ihre Kanal seit Jahren, habe sehr viel von Ihnen gelernt und umgesetzt. Weiter so! :-) Liebe Grüsse aus Ungarn!

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Ja, der Schaltschrank ist normalerweise abgedeckt!

@ronm6585 Год назад

Great idea. Thank you.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

You are welcome!

@HenriUA 2 месяца назад

Great video! For a 1-fase house, can we just enter the grid on the backup box and exit the whole house on the backup load?

@AndreasSpiess 2 месяца назад

I think so. But you still need the switch that switches the backup power to your home.

@slimjim2526 Год назад

Interesting exactly what I need , I want to make my own back up box , do you know what the signal/ voltage is given from the original backup box to the inverter to fire it in back up operation?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

No. I assume the backup box just has a relay contact.

@ajgd Год назад

Correct me if I'm wrong but Star connected motors supplied from 1 phase will overheat immediately, the currents will be the LRA (Locked Rotor Amperage) and the system will overload the inverter 🤔 ....... Star connected resistive loads can "overload" the neutral wire if they are too high, but if they are small loads I do not see that much problem

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

The problem with star motors is well possible. I do no more remember these topics from my EE studies ;-)

@raimondsliepins7601 Год назад

This video does not mention, is the Smart Meter (DTSU666-H) also required for this solution to work? In the wiring diagrams I am seeing this as an integral part and also in your video when looking at the fuse box it is present.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

As all grid-connected systems it needs this smart meter, you are right.

@WarwickIsSensible Год назад

Consider exploring Victron equipment. MQTT, ModbusTCP and Node-RED is native to the ecosystem. Your changeover will be within 20ms.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

My colleague uses Victron and is happy with it. Have to keep mine for the next few years...

@vladimirshatokhin4868 Год назад

I guess the delay comes from inverter start-up in off-grid mode, where it takes time to switch the system and supply electricity. Backward switch to grid is nearly instantaneous. I guess and switch relay will have the same delay to do the mentioned process.

@BerndFelsche Год назад

Are the stove and oven really connected in delta? It doesn't seem the case here in Australia where 3-phase supply is used to balance the loads by connecting different elements in star... I was also thinking it would be delta until I read some appliance installation destructions. Seems like they don't want to deal with the higher voltage.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I did not check. The just do not work off-grid. So I supposed they are connected in delta.

@Jacobb1971 Год назад

Hi Andreas 1) Where is the Huawei smart power sensor located in the setup? On the grid side of the Automatic Transfer switch? 2) Is the any circuit breakers or relays on the grid side of the ATS? Like a EHFI relay? 3) I assume the grid meter is on the grid side of the ATS? 4) Since the SUN2000 gets its power from the house grid, which in your case is powered by the backup box when off grid, can that be the reason it still powers the inverter allowing the solar panels to provide power for the house grid as well charging the Lunar2000 battery? Because Huawei states only the L1 inverter can run in pure off grid mode, not the M1 you have (and I). The M1 supposedly only allows the battery to provide backup power… For me, if the SUN2000 does not charge battery and run house on solar when off grid, backup box is not much use. So I am really curious how you made it do it!!! Best regards from Denmark

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

The Smart meter is on the grid side. There is no need for it if off-grid. As said, my inverter charges the battery in off-grid (Huawei info is probably outdated). The rest of your questions should be answered in the video.

@MSP_TechLab Год назад

Nice hack. However I still would try to have priority loads on separate line/phase. Because you know... power of habits. Especially if you don't have any constant "alarm"/indicator that grid is off.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

With out 10kWh battery and solar charging also in off-grid mode we could live our life off-grid during a big part of the year. So it is not too critical.

@McTroyd Год назад

Maybe I misunderstood something... the SUN2000 inverter runs 3-phase when the grid is connected, but only 1 phase in backup mode? Or is there a second inverter for the grid-tie operation? This is one case where I'm glad we split one phase here in the US... much simpler household electrics! 👍

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Yes, the SUN2000 inverter runs 3-phase when the grid is connected, but only 1 phase in backup mode (explanation in an earlier video). This is the reason for my "hack".

@JostSchwider Год назад

_Great!_ 👍 - _also_ for the YT algo! 😊 👍 - _auch_ für den YT-Algo! 😊

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thank you!

@santoshbansode697 Год назад

Very helpful,,,

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Glad to hear that!

@perjernstrom5178 Год назад

I guess the same idea could also be done with an electric car equipped with vehicle2load. That is usually a few kW output, but not sure if it can be automated and wired to be always ready when the car is plugged in. And another thought. Maybe 3-phase equipment can be wired to have supply only from grid, as that would guarantee no odd behaviour if all phases are shorted. At least heat pumps etc are probably best to isolate like that. Otherwise a very innovative idea!

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

So far we have no vehicle2load here. So I did not look into this matter...

@ManuOutdoor Год назад

Spannendes Video! Eine schöne Offgrid Lösung! 73 von Hb9tia

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Danke!

@Mr.Leeroy Год назад

12:04 Are those live uninsulated bus bars connecting bottom terminals of devices on 2nd row, aren't they?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

The bars connect the phases to the fuses.

@skopyhoTechChannel Год назад

hello Andreas, you should be happy that you live in Switzerland. In Czech republic due to stupid rules of goverment subsidies, batteries and inverters from major suppliers now costs 2x more than in other countries in Europe

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

That is bad news!

@skopyhoTechChannel Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess Yes, it is very sad, unfortunatelly these types of regulatory problems is not uncommon in east europe countries. 10 years back almost no small rooftop instalation get permission to supply into grid. But big solar parks on the fields get permission without problem. Also since 2011 electricity consumption is measured for each phase separately, so for household instalations we need inverters with asymetrical output instead of symetrical which are common in most other countries. I just get offer for PV system from 2 biggest companies here, for example they want 8k-9k euros for 10kWh battery, goverment subsidies for battery are up to 4200eur, but is limited to 10kWh and 50% of purchase price. DIY installations are not allowed (only exception is full offgrid). Not even all electrican are allowd to do it. Only electricans with special PV certificate can install PV systems connected to grid and subjected to subsidies.

@JanJeronimus Год назад

Do you have plans to include an MQTT message showing if and how many minutes you are on emergency power?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

For the moment I do not have this intention. But I think, the inverter transfers its status automatically with all other data. So it is stored, but not used (for the moment).

@bennylloyd-willner9667 Год назад

Great video as always. We have decided to go for a full turnkey system with three phase offgrid possibilities (next year). In Sweden, we have a "green subsidy" that is capped at 50k SEK per person, so there's no batteries this year since the subsidy is eaten up by the main solar panel installation. I would have loved to do a more DIY solution, but we find ourselves with more money than knowledge, so that's our route. The DIY part I'll be when I try to integrate the geothermal heating we're also installing this year and the solar stuff into Home Assistant. Perhaps I will make a short series of it and upload it on my channel - if I can get my ass out of the trolley (Swedish proverb) 😀

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Cool. So you have a lot of work in front of you. But it is very rewarding to produce your own energy!

@mvadu Год назад

Can you give some details on wood burning heater you mentioned? And any plans of sending its brain dump to iot platforms?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

The wood heating is at a remote place and it heats many homes. The Huawei integrates neatly into Home Assistant.

@ionciubotaru Год назад

Hi Andreas, I love your lessons. The transfer switch has a green connector on A and B side label NO NC AR AN. I didn't find any documentation on aliexpress about them. Please let me know if you have any information about them.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I had to test its behavior out on the bench first to be sure. And it comes with a diagram.

@DanielSMatthews Год назад

I have five UPS units from that company, you'd be wise to have a spare battery on the shelf for when you unexpectedly need to replace the one that came in the unit. The cheap aftermarket ones are as good or better than the originals too.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Thanks for the info. For the moment, I sent it back for repair or exchange. We will see...

@jeanyvespochez Год назад

yes these ups batteries are always failing after 3 years max (less for entry level models like this one...) just keep one 12v battery as a spare...

@jlegen Год назад

I‘m using the same chinesium transfer switch, but for backing up my oil heater with a power bank. They are quite amazing for their price - but i‘m not sure if i‘d trust them to put my house on them…😬

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I have no experience. But they will not be used often...

@alexandredelen2949 Год назад

Hi Andreas, I love you solution and like to test your creativity!. We have a home with 3 x 10k 3phase inverters with each 15kw batteries and 3 backupboxes (66pv panels). The house is powered by 3 x 400V+N (32amp) and inside the house evrything is cabled on 3 times 230v , we needed the 400v for heating pumps and the Electric car. How would you propose to power the house and combine the 3 backup boxes mono phase 230v and create 1) 3 phase 230v or even 2) 3 phases 400V+N Any solution is good (UPS, transformator or recabeling) Thanks for your creativity Alex

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not do consulting (too dangerous). I only show my findings in my videos. But I am sure, with the understanding of what I did, you will find the right way for your situation that is legal and working. Your situation is basically the same as mine. The only thing is that I had to do a trick because I only had one phase to power 3 phases.

@zyghom Год назад

ha ha ha - not only a guru but also an inventor: @2:18 - "complicativness - Did you mean: complications? - It looks like there aren't many great matches for your search" ;-)

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Maybe a new word? Complicatedness is explained in my year-end video ;-)

Год назад

Is this Hager main switch you operated to simulate a grid loss foreseen to cut power under load ? IMHO it is only an isolating switch, normally you have first to switch off all the minature circuit breakers to remove all the loads.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not know. But my loads are usually only 500W distributed on three phases...

@gameisrigged6942 Год назад

I liked the part where you said diesel generator with DC converter

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Did I say this? That was a mistake!

@ssbk23 11 месяцев назад

What would happen if, for example, phase 1 is down (which would activate the transfer switch) but phases 2 and 3 are still active in the grid? It is not that uncommon for only a single phase to fail.

@AndreasSpiess 11 месяцев назад

It would change to backup and cut the two working grid phases.

@josefskramusky8257 6 месяцев назад

Hello Andreas, thanks for your videos. I have noticed one possible problem with connecting 1 phase to 3 phases and it is possible overloading of neutral (blue) wire on appliance connected to 3 phase to star. If phases of AC are shifted by 120 degree, as from grid, than in balanced load there is no current on blue wire and in worst unbalanced case there is same current as maximum on each phase wire. Therefore blue wire has normally same (or smaller) diameter as phase wires. If all three phases are conneted to one though, there is no shift, and on blue wire current will be 3x phase current. As this is how my water heater is connected (3 phase to star) i have been thinking about current on neutral wire an it is freshly in my mind. As you do not use electricity for heating, this is probably not an issue for you, but it is important in general, as this could lead to serious overheating of blue wire if used for longer time. I hope this is not already mentioned in other comment, but there are too many.

@AndreasSpiess 6 месяцев назад

In principle, you are right. However, my inverter only delivers 5kW. So there is no problem with that. Plus to save (precious) energy when the grid is down, I do not use such high-power applications.

@bbogdanmircea Год назад

Hello Andreas, I have at the moment also a SUN2000L1 so only one phase, without battery or backup box, and my parents are also asking for a solution when the grid goes off. You got a really good price for the 10 kWh and the backup-box, I think now it is much more expensive. I think that a better solution is to buy an off-grid inverter that accepts non proprietary batteries, I am thinking about a Growatt with Pylontech batteries, this inverter will be connected between the Huawei and the house and will work as an UPS when the grid is off, without the delay that the Huawei has. Of course no hack of the electrical network will be needed.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I needed an on- grid because it’s main purpose is producing energy for our home and sell the rest. We produce 5x what we need in the summer months.

@bbogdanmircea Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess I have also on-grid and already injected a lot, but instead of Luna + Backup Box + Hack + UPS I want to use a Growatt + Pylontech. Much more KISS than your approach imho. I guess you didn't know that the Huawei has that 3s delay when commuting from on-grid to off-grid?

@mikejones-vd3fg Год назад

maybe since DIY self storage isnt practicle, combining all the extra solar energy could make it more practical, to say move a mass battery, a huge rock that spins, having like 50 solar connections hooked up to it all giving their extra energy to spin it where on their own couldnt do it, then this spinning mass will be slowed down to use the energy in the winter, obviously would this be a net gain is something a little math would figure out quickly, but other than pumping water, no long term solar storage really exists...

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@@bbogdanmircea I do not know which particular products you look at. Just ensure your inverter or battery can do all the needed off-grid switching.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@@mikejones-vd3fg We can store a lot of electricity in our alpine lakes. But for the moment, I do not care too much about it. We still burn lots of gas and coal during spring/summer/autumn. If we can replace that part, we already have something... For the rest, we have a few years left. And as an engineer, I am confident that innovation will not stop.

@srfrg9707 Год назад

I don't know about the Helvetic confederation but here in EU (I mean Greece) the domestic circuit connected to the grid has to be certified by a technician. This implies that every single devices such as the transfer switch has to be CE compliant which i doupt it is when you buy it from AlliExpress (I may be wrong, please double check by yourself). Siemens sells one but it's above 1000€ here. The Hager model is 813€. The Chinese one is only 36€ 🤔Something tells me that the price tag is not just due to the CE sticker.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not know, but the professional Electrician installed it. In this application, it is not very critical. Nothing dangerous happens if it does not switch and if it connects the grid to backup while the grid is on (which is a very strange failure mode because it switches between the grid and backup), we get a dead short across two phases (because they are connected) and will trigger the fuses.

@srfrg9707 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiessI didn't say that it was dangerous, I said I have no idea why the price tag is so high and maybe it is for other reasons than safety. Maybe reliability? Maybe it's the EU specifications that makes it expensive to produce? Lack of mass production? I don't really know.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@@srfrg9707 I also do not know. But in my case, I hope it will never be used (or just a few times a year). I assume there are other use cases. 1000 Euro for a simple two-way switch seems a lot to me anyway...

@LackofFaithify Год назад

CE is self certifying....the companies grade themselves, it is the most nothing of all standards. A kid could set up a lemonade stand, write CE on the side, and it would probably pass...you know, since the kid would be the one deciding if it did or not.

@palto-ai Год назад

@@srfrg9707 On Amazon user review I found an interesting hint about the potential issues with this switch. It is not (always) switching as fast as promised and no guarantee that all phases and neutral switch synchronously. This could cause an issue if the neutral switches later and is not connected for few milliseconds while the mains are already connected. This is mainly an issue when switching back to he grid with 3 phases, as in such case there could be >230V if the sources on the the three phases are quite unbalanced load.

@zazugee Год назад

Cool, i'm from Algeria, and i have a similar situation to yours when it comes to the distribution of loads and phases, each phase is going to a different floor, and heavy loads and lighting/light loads are mixed, i wish i could rewire everything to separate them but it will cost and take much effort i also spent tons of money on 17Kwh OPzS batteries, and a victron Multiplus 5KV inverter (i've yet to buy extra 2KW panels in addition to the old 1KW ) i'm currently reading about classic control to build my own custom ATS to fulfill my needs, with open option to use Arduino to add some complex logic to the system

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

At least you should have much more sun than we have ;-) Your battery is quite big for a 1kW panel, BTW.

@zazugee Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess yes, planning to get extra 2KW, have more cooling loads in summer, usually the AC stay on at night in July and august

@zazugee Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess the reason i bought the batteries before the end of last year and before solar panels was inflation, while solar panels price go down every year even with inflation

@mcconkeyb Год назад

WOW! You guys have 3 phase in your homes. Here in North America homes are connected to 1 phase with a transformer that has a center tap. So homes have single phase 240V or dual 120V half phase, from a "hot" to ground, supplies. Most (99%) loads are 120V to ground, only stoves and other heating devices are 240V. I'm not sure if you can even get 3 phase brought into a house, and if you can the price would be ridiculous. 😃

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Your country is much bigger and you would probably need more copper;-)

@OldCurmudgeon3DP Год назад

I usually just see 3 phase (US) for businesses: retail, food, etc. Most residential poles only carry 1 phase {7200V or so) after you get a relatively short distance from the substation. I'm always amazed at the small wire I see in boxes overseas when I have several circuits w/ #6awg on them and 4/0 coming from the utility meter. The caveat is that those houses have 240v-Neutral on their outlets where ours are 120v. A #14 wire there carries nearly double the power for the same current.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Our system provides 400V from phase-to phase...

@OldCurmudgeon3DP Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess and that would make about 230V phase to N. 👍

@muctop17 Год назад

3:54 A working internet without a power grid? What is your DSLAM, your cable provider modem or your 4/5G BTS in the neighborhood is running without grid on the street?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not know if and how long it would work. I had some power outages (some even caused by me) and therefore decided to add a UPS anyway. But I agree, in most cases, the internet will be dead when energy is off.

@karlmaurer2841 Год назад

Does it sense the grid power to get back up and running? What would happen when you switch your power grid switch back on?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Yes, it switches back to grid as soon as it is available.

@benoitemery9193 7 месяцев назад

I have a question. Do you think this system would work without grid connection at all ? Regards, Benoit

@AndreasSpiess 7 месяцев назад

I would use a different inverter for that purpose.

@benoitemery 7 месяцев назад

Ok danke schön @@AndreasSpiess

@slavoljubmiletic8644 Год назад

Hello , Are the ports for the neutral conductor on terminals X1 (backup load-port 2). X2 (grid-port 4) and X3 (Inverter-port 8) at Backup box-B1 at the same potential? From which port is the neutral conductor connected to the switch (which you suggest) for the load? (X1 port 2 or X2 port 4). The network is of the TT type. Can you draw a three-pole diagram? Thank you Miletic from Serbia

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I do not have more information than shown in the video. Look at the drawing at 6:29 that shows the whole setup. Backup power is the single-phase output of the inverter.

@peros550 Год назад

Andreas I was waiting for this video since summer when you said you would post this off grid safe idea! Thank you! Any idea if instead of using LUNA batteries, we could use DIY LiPo batteries with Huawei Sun2000 series?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

I would not do it because they are high voltage batteries (800V). If you want DIY I would go for a different brand.

@wva5089 Год назад

Ups's have caused me more outages than they've ever saved me

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Here, too ;-)

@tobiasheeb9721 Год назад

Greetings from the other side of switzerland. I now have the same setup as you with one exception, I have a manual transfer switch from ABB. My power outage test was together with the electrician inspector. Funny thing was that the luna was still charging during the test because the sun was shining and there was plenty of power available from the pv. How much do you spare for power outage? I configured 20% or 3kWh.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

For the moment I have 95 and 10% as limits. But mainly because I want to extend the life of the battery. I only will change it when I see something changing in the overall situation of our grid. BTW: We already had an outage when I was not at home. My wife did not know that there was one ;-)

@marcospandau Год назад

Have you checked the synchonize if grid return on and your inverter is power on. Is there a short break? or will it couse a failure while the phase are not in sync? is the huawei inverter intelligent?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

When the grid is coming back, the Huawei will be completely insulated. The backup box is still open (because it is only powered when the transfer switch is in on-grid position). The transfer switch takes a few milliseconds to switch from the Inverter to the grid. It should insulate the Huawei first and then connect to the grid (otherwise the fuses will trip because of a short between phases). In this moment, there is no synchronization and the load (and not another source) will get an abrupt phase change. I do not know if this harms the load (it did not during my tests). The same occurs if you switch between an emergency generator and the grid. If you fear it, you could also include a delay relay structure that you have a 3 sec pause.

@martinstefan6268 Год назад

does the LUNSA2000 converter recharge the batteries (during sunshine of course) while it is operating in "off-grid" mode?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

Yes, the SUN2000 charges the LUNA2000 battery if it has enough energy

@ekivoco Год назад

Hi. Do you have a link for the 10 kWh battery at this very interesting price that you showed (4501 CHF) ?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

It is a standard Huawei LUNA2000. But I fear it is more expensive now (as everything solar).

@tituslivius7869 Год назад

I wonder about the sum current of N of the oven. 3x the same phase differs from 3 different phase. Let's assume that you can drive the oven off-grid anyhow only a short period and your wire diameter is big enough.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

All depend on how the oven is connected: Star or delta. If it is star, then you can add the currents. If it is delta, the sum of all phases is 0.

@tituslivius7869 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess you miss the point of phase-shifting. In that term 3x the same phase results in a bigger effectiv current as 3 different phases.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@@tituslivius7869 I agree. But this does not matter in my case because the inverter can not produce more than the current of one phase.

@tituslivius7869 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess ok, its more a general hint.

@klassichd10 Год назад

Thanks again and Congrats! Paralleling all 3 Phases could overload the neutral line of loads in star configuration. But during power outage, cooking will be done by a camping gas cooker. Your solution is very unexpensive. The battery is way less expensive than my BYD HVS. And your Backup-box is quite fast. My Fronius Gen24 supports 3 phase backup. But it needs an expensive backup box und the transfer is slower than yours (German rules, I think). Otherwise my small Victron backup solution for the heating system has UPS speed.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

The Victrons seem to be very fast. A colleague has a 3 phase design and is happy. When I ordered our inverter I did not think that I ever will think of a backup solution. For normal operation, my inverter/battery is extremely cheap ( and is LiFePo4 and high voltage). All deciding factors. one year ago...

@klassichd10 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess The backup idea was the starting point for me in 2021 after reading the report of the Bundesrechnungshof anticipating the issues and after the elections. But I hesitated too long because I wanted to avoid 3000 EUR for a new main distribution box in my >50 year old house (crazy German rules). And I wanted to have a 3 phase Victron system. But here, there is no company installing this. So, I ordered in March 2022 a "standard system". Then, all was delayed until autumn. In autumn our government decided 0% VAT for PV beginning from 2023. End of january the system was installed but I have to wait until the meter is replaced by a two directional one..... Long journey

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@@klassichd10 Indeed. We were lucky, and from the order (24.2.22) to the first energy (26.5.22) was fast. The counter came in June. But I still do not have a valid invoice...

@klassichd10 Год назад

@@AndreasSpiess But you have your "own" electricity. Fast and inexpensive, lucky man. Virtutis fortuna adjuvat. Great DIY team.

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

@@klassichd10 Indeed. Being a RU-vidr might have helped a bit ;-)

@hughtube4me Год назад

Would I be correct that in the UK implementation of this type of redundancy would be less complex due to the UK domestic supply being single phase ?

@AndreasSpiess Год назад

All system components are still needed. Just only for a single phase (which saves quite some relays and fuses).

@CJsWorld7 8 месяцев назад

Sali Andreas, danke für das tolle Video. Heute wurde endlich die Installation der PV-Anlage inkl. Backup Box B1. Ich glaube ich habe sogar die gleiche Anlage wie du. Bei der Abnahme waren der Elektriker und die Solarinstallateur dabei. Sie waren sich nicht einig, ob die Backup Box für mich sinnvoll ist oder nicht. Ich wäre froh, deine Meinung dazu zu hören. Elektriker meint, dass die Backup Box speziell gesichert werden muss und aufgrund der Limitierung von 16 Ampere nichts bringe, währen der Solarinstallateur plötzlich der Meinung ist, dass ich gar keine Notstromanlage benötige. Tatsache ist, dass ich gerne bei einem Stromausfall einen funktionierenden Kühlschrank, einen Tiefkühler und warmes Wasser habe (das letzte wird wohl mit der 1-phasigen Backup Box nur wie bei Dir mit der "short circut zu Phase 1 möglich sein). Super cool wäre eine direkte Konversation dazu, wenn du Zeit hast. Danke schon mal und beste Grüsse, CJ

@AndreasSpiess 7 месяцев назад

Es sollten alle Angaben die du brauchtst im Video sein. Ob du eine solche Anlage willst oder nicht musst du und nicht dein Installateur entscheiden. In der Schweiz ist sie vermutlich kaum nötig.