@@Atlas_DXUlt Right! 😃 And then he, himself, ends up getting accidentally locked-in because of it. Some kinda pastiche to those ancient Greek tragic plays, or something...
Imagine robbing his house and seeing a safe with 20 locks on it. You spend a full day getting in and your realize he just has locks that protect his locks..
I've worked in the industrial field for 15 years and I think I know the answer to your paradox with the loto locks. A given employer may have thousands of these locks on their site at a given time (sometimes 10+ per employee), and possibly use millions of locks over the course of their business lifetime. You absolutely cannot have a key that matches a lock anywhere else than that one lock it is tied to, that is a big insurance and safety problem. So the more pins allows for more key variations. Also, people are constantly sticking their keys into the wrong locks accidentally, and so the higher quality core allows for less chance that they will force the lock open before they realize it is the wrong lock. I do this multiple times a shift, because I have several locks issued to me with many similar keys and I typically just go through them until I find the one that opens (I know I should label them). The more pins means there is more variety for the keys and less chance of a duplicate on site. The higher quality core, which is in all likelihood regulated by law, means less chance of someone forcing a very old lock open. The reason the quality of the housing is so poor is intentional. You want to be able to cut or even smash the lock off in a hurry if you have to. Maybe there is an emergency and you think of a way to operate the machine in order to try to save someone who is injured. Also, more benignly, people leave for home with their locks on machines all the time on accident handing off to other shifts. So you don't want some sort of monster lock on there that you can't get off without the key. The cheap build makes buying them much more affordable for employers, when they buy thousands of these at a time. They are not security locks, they are safety locks. High volume that must meet stringent safety standards (6 pins) for various reasons, but are not meant to be undefeatable in all circumstances.
As far as why there are stronger locks with shitty keys and cores, that seems pretty easy thing to answer. Most of these locks are all fairly cheap and sold at hardware stores, likely bought by soccor moms and the like to keep their shed closed or maybe a dirt bike or something chained up. You don't want some petty incompetent thief to be able to smash the lock open or cut it open easily when you're not around. But if you misplace or lose the key over the winter time while you're not using whatever you have locked up, you also don't want it to be an impossible task for a locksmith to open your lock. Maybe you could even pick the lock yourself. Also more pins means more points of failure outside during rain and rust and exposure to elements. In short, the customer gets what they want. These decisions aren't being made by masterlock. They're being made by masterlock's largest customer base.
@@j37j2 "They're being made by masterlock's largest customer base." True yet false :) You assume the customer base is informed and makes a reasoned decision ...
@@j.p.vanbolhuis8678 I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the insurance companies who require these locks can make informed decisions, when they are the ones who lobbied the government for these regulations in the first place. There's no one person or organization who comes up with these ideas. The market evolves until it meets what is best.
@@j37j2 Well, trouble is, masterlock does advertise a lot of easily defeatable locks as "unpickable". Assuming you're ignorant (not stupid per se, just not a locksmith), you might rightly assume that lock is enough, even if it's actually garbage. "High security" locks defeated in a single second, where the average consumer may simply not know about such weaknesses and may reasonably demand a lock that, well, locks something. When the consumer is lied to, an educated decision isn't exactly easy.
This video is hilarious for several reasons: 1. The fact that he has a keychain full of locks instead of keys 2. The fact that he picks those locks just for fun while watching movies 3. The fact that he said "I know a lot of you are probably thinking..." followed by some random lock picking jargon.
@@nekoprincess4130 Yeah, I actually thought 182 was a parody until I watched a few more of his videos (and compared them to other skilled pickers like Bill).
The lockout lock has probably saved lots of lives. Many years ago I was developing electronic sign control software with a fellow named Jimmy. When the electricians were working on the sign (3 phase, 400 Amp service), they would put a lock on the breaker box and put the key in their pocket. Jimmy would invariably want to test something and would run over to the breaker and try to turn on the power while the electricians were up a ladder and inside the sign.
I've worked with LOTO locks for years, and can comment on why the design is great for me and my coworkers. The shackle is un-hardened so an authorized Safety team member can use standard bolt cutters to chop it if someone's lost their key. Additionally, we use these so often that we wear them on our belt, so the lightweight plastic-exterior design really helps to not tear up your pants or bounce around too much. Finally, we use these locks several times per day for years, so perhaps the extra pinning helps the keys stay firmly in place when we're walking around with the key in, or continue to safely function. Or perhaps there was some court case where someone picked a lock and someone got hurt. I'm not totally sure, but that's the information I have!
I’m here to back this up as well. Everything he says here I can attest to. I work with automated robots, which require constant trouble shooting. This requires a lockout every time I have to enter the automated cell, I use this same exact loto lock as many as 50 times in one 12 hour shift.
So true, plus the Weight hanging off a MCC mains power switch handle. When you have scissors plates and 20 locks hanging off one, all that weight over time can damage the switch mechanism internals. the new plastic locks came out after 2 people died and 3 injured because the switch was damaged energizing a conveyor that they were working on. Early 2000's in Australia.
I am a non-lock picking lawyer who does labor arbitrations and thus I know a fair amount about LOTO practices. All those reasons are spot on. Also note that The “one man one lock“ practice means you can have 10+ locks hanging off the same switch if it’s a big project. Size and weight matters. Finally, on the management side, no one ever got in trouble for paying an extra dollar for an LOTO lock so I won’t be surprised if someone at master lock just said, what the heck put the good core in there we can charge extra for it ;-).
Thanks for all the specific insights, very interesting, but I don't think that was ever an issue. Everyone can imagine why plastic locks could be useful, problem mentioned is more at why they did not put such a good core (as LPL claims, I got no clue about it) on any of the premium locks that are supposed to provide more security when they obviously are able to make it :P
I'm a chemical operator and I do lotos essentially daily. We have all 3 locks in this video mentioned. The plastic body is by far my favorite for its light weight (we often have to carry 30-50 at a time) and it's ability to endure weather and corrosion. We work with HCL, sulfuric acid, h2s, chlorine etc and the other locks in the video pretty much always get siezed closed in our harsh environment. The plastic ones can remain in a lockout for months and will unlock months later without issue whereas the metal ones often have to get cut off due to corrosion.
I can see that happening given the conditions. My work gave us American Lock 1100s but of course being aluminum bodied they get beat up pretty quickly after being carried around all night. Mine have gone from being red to having no finish on it at all so I think the plastic bodied would hold up better lol
Did u have separate lockout boxes, basically said locks are associated with a particular box set so locks 1-12 box A4 labeled for that box, the keys for those go into that box and that box is locked by your personally labeled lock and you only carry the one key for that particular box granted sometimes multiples for several boxes but no need to carry 30 keys around.
@@vinces8209 It's not the keys he's carrying around, it's the locks. On any given piece of equipment you could have literally hundreds of lockout points, every single one of them has to have a lock, and there's only gonna be two or maybe three guys if you're lucky handling all of it.
You wake up and front doors open the cat is in the now open safe and that box in the attic full of mags your grandpa lost the key to 23 years ago is layed out for the world to see.
I'm sure he would also give his neighbors better locks to challenge his sleep walking self cause an easy lock that can be raked open in moments is no fun past the first time
Master Lock is just trying to balance their locks. If a lock had maxed out stats, that would be overpowered. Therefore they balance their locks with strength and weaknesses to promote variety in the lock meta.
As a safety professional I can explain the paradox. This is the best LOTO lock because the likelihood of mistakenly taken a lock off with a similar key is very low and uet it is very easy to remove by force when an employee goes home and locks out critical machinery. There are procedures in place to cut a lock and Noone not even management can unlock the lock without destroying it. These are Industry standard and in my carreer I have never seen the other locks he has shown. This lock is ideal to its purpose.
Brings back bad memories of working for a certain large online retailer.. I used to randomly select one engineer for a LOTO audit weekly, the locks used are the same as this one. Remember: locks only keep the honest people out.
Then explain why its full of security Pins, and it has more of them than the Locks they rate the highest on their Security Scale (which only have standard Pins)?
@@unitrader403 there's a little more to it than what Justin Ford said but not much. First, job sites where LOTO locks like this are used can have machines that are multiple stories tall and during annual scheduled maintenance can have dozens of contractors and hundreds of workers on site. Amongst those hundreds is usually one asshole who thinks the rules don't apply to him and knows how to force a typical lock with pressure on the hasp and a dead blow hammer so he can turn on a light in a crawl space. He might even keep a bump key or rake in his pocket. Locks of these types should be impossible to manipulate into opening without a key but should show damage at any attempt to brute force open so anyone walking by would notice it's been messed with. The danger isn't that the lock was brute forced open and it's obvious after the fact (no valuables stolen) The danger is someone doesn't know the lock was picked or jimmied and goes into the danger area.
@@matthewsullivan9598 This still does not answer the question why Masterlock does not use these cores in their highest rated products even though these Cores are objectively more secure...
@@unitrader403 Cost. More pins=more money. It takes more manufacturing steps and security pins take more fine machining. I think lawyers have an impact as well. If the actual core fails or is defeated on a LOTO lock someone might die. That's huge liability to the company. If the core fails or is defeated on an expensive high security lock and your garage gets ransacked it sucks for you but you're not likely to sue Master Lock for millions. People pay a premium for a tough LOOKING lock without knowing how good the core is so why waste money on the core? I'm not defending I'm explaining and I get frustrated by it too. Yet it makes sense from the business side.
As an industrial electrician, I've seen a good amount of contractors leave site permanently without taking off their LOTO locks. Therefore their locks needed to be cut off. Assuming this is the reasoning for the low security exterior.
A lot of people here seem to be missing his point quite dramatically. He's not saying it's inherently stupid that these LOTO locks have really good cores and terrible bodies, he's saying that it's crazy that all the other locks Master Lock make for actual security purposes have terrible cores when this clearly shows that they have the technology and knowledge to produce some really good ones. He's saying that it's weird to waste these really good cores on locks where it doesn't matter as much at the expense of their security cores
It's simple, really. it's all about liability and lawyers. They would more likely get sued over someone's death than the theft of a bicycle. So, they go with the cheaper option where possible. Not mysterious at all.
@@videodistro I would also say that someone less familiar with locks would judge the lock purely based off of its looks. Because of this they can get away with selling tough looking locks with weak cores
Most people don't pick locks, they cut them. Now if you are in a factory where 1000 people have LOTO locks, you definitely don't want multiple copies of a key floating around.
The solution to this big problem is : put your name on the lock. If there is a lock with your name on it on the LOTO stack: remove it. If there isn't: do not remove a lock. Not even if you tried all 100 locks with all of your 10 keys.
They only needed the 6pin core to meet industry security standards (thus the other LOTO locks without the 6pin core). They have no such requirements for "civilian" locks. In reality, a lock isn't really that much more secure with a "better" core. Forced entry through lock picking is extremelyyyyyyy rare outside of low skill methods like raking and bump keys. If someone had the skill and patience to "properly" pick your 5pin, he most likely also has the skill and patience to pick a 6pin with security pins. Most people try to break the lock, thus the sturdy body on the more expensive locks. Putting any more effort into the core then the bare minimum to combat low skill attacks is just a waste of money for the R&D.
I want to see the LPL review movies based on how many locks he was able to pick during the running time. A better movie will be more distracting meaning less locks picked. I think it would be a really good scale.
I don't want it out of any numbers divisible by 5. That being said, this sort of idea would be great. Have a Livestream movie or show while he picks locks would be fun too.
in Australia these loto locks are the standard because technicians lives are at stake. industry standards require a lock that is difficult to tamper with but possible to remove. the theory is that it is too difficult for someone to pick open and remove then have someone switch on or turn the valve and later claim the lock wasn't on then replace the lock back to the switch. but is easily cut off if the lockout lock is left behind. so it's made to easily detect brute force attacks but remain strong against non damaging attacks or tampering.
As a former LOTO supervisor, I can chime in on this one. The 6 pins core allows for a larger number of pin combinations which means that my 375 locks all had a different key. Although my department had the lion’s share of these locksets, my company had other departments & sections that each had their own LOTO locksets, each with their own keys. That way, unless you had the key, you couldn’t open the lock. These locks are only there as a reminder that the device is not to be operated. As such, there is no need for the locksets to have hardened shanks or body. The problem is that keys get misplaced, lost, or even broken. After a thorough investigation, the only resort may be to cut the lock The LPL didn’t work for us and a locksmith would cost more than buying a new lock. It’s all about economic options.
That's a very great point and i do get why the body would be weaker for easier cutting. It may also explain why some hardened locks have weaker cores so that it can be picked easier aside from cutting it which would be way harder. But the point of the Paradox he makes it the same point you've said. Masterlock has proven they have the knowledge and capability to make great lock bodies and strong cores, but they haven't extended much on that regard which always leave most of their locks a lot of exploits. In specific cases there are great uses for weak body and strong cores or vice versa but i think the point here is that generally, Masterlock has proven they can do better but is unknown as to why they don't.
I was thinking along this line. Lock out locks are to give the service tech the confidence to know that his key is unique and no one will come and remove the tag because their key fits, while his hands are in the machine They're not concerned with people lock picking the lock or needing to break it.
@@iAmKilljoy Fair point and i think i get it a lot better now. Thanks for clearing it up and although i get the point of a lock having its own weakness for certain areas, I didn't think about it nor was knowledgeable enough for its uses. Thanks!
This one jumped out at me because I'm manage safety in a semiconductor lab. I think we have a "little column A, little column B" thing. 1. Weight. This is a factor, not because of carrying them, but because you might need to attach it to something small. For example a household style circuit breaker, a heavy lock could damage the breaker or the devices used to attach to the breaker. I have seen cases where the LOTO loop on a valve was broken through over time by the lock hanging on it. There are also cases where multiple locks are attached to the same point and you don't want 10 pounds hanging from even a robust point. 2. Cost, these locks go missing, get cut, get damaged, as someone who has to maintain a budget I can't spent $10000/year on locks. These buggers are expensive anyway, so if Master saves me $5/lock I'm grateful. 3. "Strength" defeating a LOTO usually results in termination, so they don't have to be strong. Seeing a red lock generally implies "mess with me and get fired", that's where its true strength is. 4. Secure core. I think the high end core is for good reasons, as I mentioned a decent sized site could go though a lot of these, I keep 25 new ones in my desk at all times, the EH&S manager probably has 100. So a decent core means more randomized keying. You don't want the wrong key to work, not when the result could be death (or many many deaths if it involves toxic gas release ). You also don't want the core to wear and allow the wrong key to work. Finally, despite the threat of termination, you don't want it defeated too easily, key bumping etc. 5. Authorized defeating. People lose keys, we have had people leave town on vacation and forget to switch locks, sometimes a LOTO can be in place for years. So the lock should be easy to cut when appropriate. It's also possible the lock is in a position so that you can't access the hasp so being able to cut the body easily helps in these cases. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents from 35 years in industry.....
I agree with everything you said. At my previous work, as an industrial electrician, we could easily have 200-300 locks or more used during a single day during maintenance shutdowns on all the production lines. Electricians, mechanics, safetey officers, production personnel, external contractors and more. Many locks got cut and replaced with new ones for a variety of reasons during a year so a good number of combinations on the cores are essential. These red ones are only one type, we used them for electrical LOTO points, there are others with different coloured shells that represent different kind of energies you lock out, e g blue, yellow and green. I'm pretty sure all of the different colours have the exact same cores.
What would be the point of defeating them at a work place? I mean apart from trying to kill or hurt someone why would someone do it? And if for mentioned by me reasons then termination would be this person least problem.
@@forthphoto my thought exactly, if something is locked a worker probably wouldn't unlock it unless their intent is harm or malicious, in which case a plastic body wouldn't suffice. Having high core security doesn't make sense to me at all if the lock body does not live up to appropriate standards.
the additional pin(s) are not for more security, it's to reduce the odds that someone will accidentally have a duplicate lock in a multiple person lockout situation. complex operations can have a dozen or more LOTO locks on one piece of equipment.
That makes a ton of sense. Another comment also suggested the weak body is specifically so you can easily cut it off in the fairly common event a contractor finishes and leaves while forgetting to remove the lock.
@@johnrobertson7583This isn't for a personal lock. This is for a facility that has a to a dozen different electrical boxes and dangerous areas that need to be locked up and therefore buy these guys
My heart dropped to see the thumbnail with your name on it, showing the lock i trust my life and limbs to everyday. After watching I left more than content. Thanks from one on the line LPL.
@@ralanham76 I bought one, and it broke within a week, after I picked it open, once, and very easily, (This was after trying, and failing, to open it on previous days.) I then operated it a couple of times with the key, after which it failed to stay locked. I'm fairly new to lock picking, so was understandably surprised at how easily it could be picked (not raked) open. Would not trust my life to such fragile locks, and shall not be buying another one in a hurry.
@@RWBHere These things don't need to be pick proof. They're used on industrial equipment so someone doesn't walk by and hit the electrical disconnect while you're working on the machine. If someone is trying to pick the lock then they are literally, actively trying to murder you.
@@louisradico1511 Not only that, but they would have to pick the lock off of the equipment that you are working on. Chances are that someone would see that person trying to pick a lock off of the energized equipment and go WTF lol. Picking is pointless anyway, anytime someone loses the keys, we just cut it off with bolt cutters. Much faster and less hassle.
The strong core is so the wrong key does not accidentally open the wrong lock by the ignorant new guy on the crew . The weak housing is so the lock can be busted open in an emergency. I worked in the engine room of a commercial tugboat, we had these all over the place.
I would add that in the environment that these are being used, tools to "break" the lock are so readily available, the need for an extremely robust body/shackle isn't the top priority for design.
You all are missing the point, why in the hell would they not have this same core in their other locks instead of having the rest of their lineup which are used to prevent theft have these cores or similar?
XD If that worked, I'd just get a sticker that said that. But no no it's for Lockout Tagout for work purposes :p cause sometimes idiots are like "hurp derp, it says it's broken but it turns on anywys!" since it's not locked and then a huge problem occurs. :
I had a buddy in the Navy, he was a radar technician. He secured all power and did all of his lockout tagout procedures properly before he entered into one of the high power radar arrays to do some work. Here comes some jackass who flips a power switch for it and electrocutes my buddy. Somehow he survives. Dude no has almost zero motor control in his body now and is permanently 100% disabled. Do not ignore tags or locks that say danger on them.
I use those plastic LOTO locks at my job everyday, and the reason why we use them is because they can be broken open pretty easily if someone forgets to take them off and leaves with the key. Not sure if that's why they're designed that way, but at work they're pretty much just to remind someone that an area or piece of equipment is locked out.
I actually would prefer my LOTO lock this way, were I still working in a field where I needed one to well, keep me alive. Cutting off a LOTO lock is a really big deal, legally, a serious OSHA violation, so on the rare occasions it has to be done, tons of documentation and management reports. Way too many workers got killed without LOTO locks, so OSHA fines are serious when they're tampered with. But then, there's the wiseass who'd try to pick one... The dead core tends to foul up a novice, the quality core defeats a novice. My first took me a few tries when I was starting out, then popped through in a few minutes on the first success. Counterintuitively, the dead core actually makes releasing a false set or overset easier without necessarily dropping already set pins... But, for a novice, a tight lock full of security pins is like Homer Simpson trapped in a yard full of rakes. ;)
The empire actually designed the Death Star very well however, and even in the Star Wars unversae, it was very unlikely that it would be defeated. Even within the force, it’s very unlikely that the exhaust pipe could have been defeated.
@@JohnSmith-fq3rg Nor did the rebels. Those turrets where designed to fight capical ships. That is why they where to slow in turning and fireing to hit the nimble starfighters.
I can just imagine lpl watching the notebook with mrs. Lpl and while she’s bawling her eyes out he’s just quietly saying to himself “click out of 3, ooh 4 is binding” 💀💀
Feels like it's almost a tamper-proof seal in a lot of ways, it's easy to bust open in an emergency if needed, but not easy to open without any trace ie picking
Why the hell would anyone pick a LOTO lock? As far as I understand, it's only there to tell people not to turn on the equipment, in case they don't see the warning sign or something.
@@23Scadu Hmm this locked machine turned on, bobby was up in the control tower, when it happened and was last on the scene after it was all over, the machine is locked in the off position. What an accident! Bobby's innocent!
Coming from someone who has over a decade in the oilfield industry, my guess behind the plastic body would be for economic purposes. These are used as safety tools to keep someone from starting up a unit, rather than keeping someone out of your belongings. Considering companies purchase these sometimes in hundreds or even thousands at a time, the plastic must save some money. Not to mention how often they get lost or stolen by employees.
Then why make it such an advanced lock? He says it's got 6 pins, with security pins. Then goes through all the expensive locks, and none of them have anywhere near as good security on pins.
@@chris24678 Making the lock tough to pick means it can't be removed easily by non-destructive means without its key, which should thwart any unauthorized removal of it since a destroyed lock would provide evidence of such.
same actually watching this video because I felt counter rotation and thought I must be wrong because its just a plastic lock I happened to have in the garage, also thought I must have miscounted the pins lol
Same here. First one to give up on and first one to cut open to look. First and the last one I tried to put back together with only tweezers and my pick tools. No longer a set
Masters are good locks in 99% of situations, their physical security is very good and TBH how many break-ins do you hear about where the lock was picked? Core wise then yes they couldn't really do much worse.
If there was an incident at a LOTO job site and tampering was suspected, a broken or cut lock is far more obvious than one that had been picked. When my sig is on a LOTO, the last thing I want is someone to easily pick the lock, cycle the power, pop the lock back on and exit the area. That could make an investigation very difficult.
I can definitely appreciate why LOTO locks are designed as they are but having the ability to buy a padlock for conventional purposes with a core in that style would definitely be a selling point. Their 10/10-rated puck locks with absolutely terrible comb-pickable cores is a good use-case for this. It's an easily identifiable target if someone sees one and has ill intentions. If they know what they're doing it's open season.
The reason for the core is because you can potentially have 20+ people locked out at one time; we did it at one of my old jobs. With the generic 4-pin Master cores, you could definitely have some overlap where someone's key accidentally works on the wrong lock and they unlock the wrong lock...which could be deadly if you have multiple control panels. This is just their way of making sure keys and locks don't get mixed up.
It shouldn't be deadly if the employees take some responsibility and actually reading who's tag on the lock. Here in sweden we don't have any LOTO requirement at all (except for public accessible spaces, example: A grocery store, or lobby, or whatever area that is not secured, where LOTO is required). Instead all responsibility falls on the employee which turns on a breaker switch without carefully checking the danger zone. In sweden, isolation switches that are used to isolate a circuit during maintenace even has a warning sign that it may not be turned off for any other purpose than safety - because then people knows that if the switch is turned off, it should not be turned on again by anyone else than the one who turned it off. (so if you turn off a machine during a vacation, you should NOT use the maintenace switch, but rather use a non-maintenace isolation switch for that)
Sebastian Nielsen - Tagging is still generally required by most companies so locks still in use can be ID'd to whomever is still missing. Using a group lockout box is the main reason lock security is important, because there's only one lock on the main panel...it only takes one genius to jam his key in the main panel lock, while there is potentially multiple locks still on the group lockout box.
This sounds plausible. I had to do some work at at a railway maintenance facility that required a broad shutdown of equipment (particularly the 1500vDC). The LOTO procedure before we could start was over 4 hours and involved hundreds of boards and circuits. With cheap locks (e.g. 4 pin) it would almost certainly be possible for a key to release more than one lock and allow an accident. This was a joint Private/Government environment where OHS considerations were extremely strict (even working 1 meter up required an enclosed platform, no ladders were allowed) so I could definitely see them having a "lock safety guide"
Exactly: You can open the wrong lock by mistake in normal operations so the core has to be great; you're very unlikely to physically defeat the lock by mistake, so the lock construction is not important .
As otherwise mentioned, we use these for safety in the oilfield for, "Lock out, tag out" of valves and pumps when equipment is shut in or being serviced. Where these are used can often be bypassed with a wrench or screwdriver to disassemble the handle or leaver leaving the lock intact. What I leaned from this vid is that they have great cores that will help prevent accidents and serve their purpose perfectly. Well done LPL, always interesting and informative.
@@3FIGNEWTONEATR So another question poped in my mind while watching this. With the weight of ALL the locks he's got, how high are rated the floor of the buildings he live/work in? 500 kg/m2 ? 😁
And probably with options...like a master combo that can be shimmed or a chinese 6 key magnetic double dimple with triple trapping and an explosive...depending on whether its quick Twosie or a 15 minute strain session...
As somebody in the construction industry the best reason I can give is if something happens to that worker who has the key and the key is lost, a set of bolt cutters can get everything up and running again with minimal effort. Most of the time these locks are nearby sensitive switches and equipment and you don't need to be struggling to get them off.
"Hey, take a break from the locks for a minute and come watch a movie with me" "Sounds good, I'll meet you there!" *takes a chain of ten locks to the couch*
I've smashed a ton of these locks as a PLC programmer. Millwrights or electricians do some work, forget the lock and then go home leaving a machine in a locked state for the next shift. We call the name on the back, get verbal confirmation the machine is safe to run and smash it off with a hammer. Saves lots of time removing locks but I suppose everyone involved needs to respect the kind of honor system there.
As a union electrician myself, I appreciate you stating that you call the number BEFORE smashing the lock. It’s EXTREMELY important no one ever removes one of these without direct contact and approval from the name or company written on the lock
Reason: it's a breakaway lock. It is made to be snapped off with a simple tool, like a pair of pliers, in a hurry. The sophisticated core is a deterrent. It's there to ensure the lock wasn't removed in a malicious way. If you don't have they key, but someone is getting cooked alive because a valve didn't hold or a line blew, you need to secure a line NOW. No time to find the guy with the key; you can bypass it in a hurry. If it was a simple lock, it could be picked easily and quickly by someone with malicious intent. So the core is there to help raise the question: "Why was the LOTO removed?", if it was removed improperly.
@@dimanetov1807 Those locks are difficult to cut. If you lose the key and you want access to your property, you'll need to hire a professional locksmith. Simpler core = more cances your local locksmith will be able to open it in a reasonable amount of time and not cost you an arm and a leg. Of course, this **does** open up the danger of thieves with simple tools and a passing knowledge on lockpicking....
Sorry, but that is a stupid reason. You NEVER lock something what could be so impotant that it could save a person or a proces. I am a electrician, I lock switches so there is NO WAY that someone turns the switch on, If you work with valves and you don't want anyone to turn it on, you lock it. Locking things keep you safe, if you lock something that could save someone's life you are STUPID, don't use a lock, use a permanent human watch, who can turn something ON in case of an emerency. Like you say, no time to find the guy with the key, you can bypass it in a hurry,..... yeah, by finding the guy with the pair of pliers ????
It has far more to with variety and cost. Having that many pins means that many more possible combinations, and if you have a company with 100s of people who need LOTO locks, you need to have a unique key for each person. The plastic body just makes it cheap.
He comes back 5 minutes later “Hello yes this unshielded keyway allowed me to simply insert a sheet of metal and turn the keyway, buy something that isn’t mater lock quality.”
It is a desirable feature for these locks to be relatively easy to break. Many times locks needed to be broken when an employee left the facility without removing their lock. A supervisor was allowed to break the lock after locating the employee and verifying that they were no longer at the site. Usually these locks were used with hasps that were even easier to break than the locks. As far as I know, these locks are not useful beyond compliance with OSHA regs.
I was going to say that. Also the employee could drop the key somewhere irretrievable. Also the locks should be inexpensive and unlikely to have common keys and resist accidental raking despite a maint-dept having large numbers of them.
mjenk20236 I've had to use one of these and I believe that is the case. I dropped it about five feet once and the shell came clean apart; it's not fusion-welded or anything, literally two halves of a clamshell with a couple pins for aligning them with each other and some light adhesive to keep them together. I taped it back together. As for the extra security, it's to help ensure your key is actually being used on YOUR lock. But on the backside a label is provided where you're supposed to write your name; it also comes in several colors, mine was yellow, here we have a red, and I've seen blue before. An ounce of caution will go much further than any lock core in making sure you remove the correct lock -- does it have your name, is it the color you were assigned, are you sure you're at the panel you are responsible for? It would also be feasible to provide multiple locks to each person if they will be working on more than one zone. Use different colors or something, or stamp serials on the shackle and each matching key. Finally, a fatal mistake I have seen is for multiple personnel working in one zone to daisy-chain their locks off each other. There are group lockouts with multiple holes for each lock to be installed and ensures every lock must be removed before it can be energized, use them!! A six-hole group pad can be made to fit many more, just daisy-chain the group pads off each other until the necessary amount of holes is had. If even one lock exists anywhere on the chain, ultimately the one on the equipment will not open.
wow, where I work if you leave your lock on a tool/machine you will be called back in to unlock it. You could lose your cert and or get written up if they have to pull out the bolt cutters and have a huge ordeal.
Nailed it. Bigger yellow ones are usually on the hasps. They aren't meant to not be broken into, just so you need to fill out a form and check the machine is clear. They're for saving fingers not property
Masterlock R&D: “We just designed the most secure lock EVER!” The Board: “So it’s flawless?” Masterlock R&D: “YES!” The Board: “Garbage, throw it out.”
Omg!!! I have been trying to pick my loto lock for years. Just on my breaks and such. Today I finally did it after watching how you did yours. Thank you. It’s so exciting to watch it finally turn. Lol.
We use this exact lock at my workplace working on trains. We often have to carry around 3+ of these when going out to jobs. It is very light so convenient to carry. If we had to carry those solidbody locks around it would get really difficult so I can understand why the design is so lightweight. They are very reliable I've been using the same ones for 10+ years.
Brady also makes a plastic non-conductive LOTO. Plastic is preferred for electrical LOTO and metal, usually American 1100 Series, is popular for valves and other applications. WARNING: Do not pick the Master past 90 degrees. The key stops at 90 by design but you will dump all of your pins out of the bottom of the core if you pick it and turn it to 180. Which I did. I ended up splitting the case open (easy), putting the core back together, covering the holes in the core and put it all back together with a wrap of tape.Great practice lock.
Lockout tag out is practiced mostly by electricians for "locking out" electrical circuits aka turning them off and then tagging it with name and phone number. If this circuit was somehow to get turned on while getting worked on someone could die. Not designed for anti theft. Power tools are every where. I could cut the shackle off with my linemens aka side cutters. Other companies make lockout tag out locks with a picture of the person attached on shackle with "Do not turn on, my family depends on me" written on lock body.
@@seno5530 It happens more than you think For example in the USA alone, between 1992 and 1999 (i.e. 7 or 8 years) there were ~2500 fatal occupational electrocutions. Most of these (i'd guess upwards of 98%) occur on low voltage circuits. So that is about ~300 per year over this period.
They are also used in Underground mining for locking out dangerous equipment, if you need to go into the area that has been locked out you have to lock on first, and everyone needs to personally remove their danger lock before the equipment can be re-energised. they are for protecting human life from accidents, not for protecting valuables from thieves.
@Nick Paul My man came back to the exact same comment a week later just to double down on calling "Se No" an idiot. What an absolute chad. edit: Unless they deleted their comment. Fuck, I'm tired, idk why that wasn't my first thought.
When I was out of high school in the steel foundry we never actually had lockout locks at all. Each maintenance man that was working on the machinery would lock my machine out and just put a regular lock on it. Somewhere in the 70s they decided they needed to identify whose lock it was so even though the mechanic use the regular lock he had a red tag on it. it had a warning label similar to that one on the side of the lock your showing only it had the mechanics name on it. And like other viewers have said multiple mechanics needed to put their multiple locks on it. We had one machine that was out in the yard when five mechanics were working on it at the same time and each one had to have their lockout lock on it so that if they all went to lunch and one mechanic never came back and then got his lock off are they would still be four remaining it was never designed to keep people out it was only a designed to make sure that all the employees knew that they power should not be turned on and whose lock was on it and was probably responsible for the machine being shut down. It's not a lock that needs to be picked. The 6-pin Tumblers we're an OSHA requirement not necessarily keep bad guys out but just to keep the machine safe and the people working on it.
As a 25 yr career electrician, the light weight is especially handy when locking out small circuit breakers (lock out tag out or LOTO). Bigger locks will just fall off. Red is always the electricians craft lock, not personal lock. This series comes in different colors too.
This was probably done to provide as many possible key variations to prevent multiple people from having the same key, since it’s a lockout lock and they are generally key different. It provides an extra level of safety to ensure a lock isn’t accidentally removed and equipment re-energized.
Electrician, speaking from knowledge of multiple men working isolations of one individual circuit E.G. a socket, the idea is that there's less possible chances of a replicated key so you know that you're the sole holder of the key to energize the circuit that you have isolated. They've put their most secure barrel on what is considered an electrical isolation lock (not for average security on a door) to remove any possibility that by absolute chance the key and barrel orders have been replicated and another individual can unlock another electricians safe isolation lock thereby causing him to be electrocuted. Hope this makes sense if you see it :)
This video popped up in my feed again today. I remember watching it when it was fairly new, and someone commented that these locks are commonly used on tugboats. Then, in the replies to his comment, someone said “fk yeah, tugboats” and I’ve laughed about that almost every day since.
I work in the mining industry in Australia and have been baffled by these lockout isolation locks for years. The company I work for purchased $250,000.00 worth of these from Masterlock. The entire order were all keyed alike.
Luke McBride, It's abundantly clear that many industries/companies simply don't give two shits about the safety of their employees - you're there to make them money and that's it.
Eviscerate - you underestimate the evil apprentice (or journeyman offing the apprentice). That's why there is often pullout shutoff boxes within sight of the equipment in addition to the breakers. It's even standard for most AC heat pumps and sauna/hot tub residential installation; sure you shut off the breaker but suppose some family member walks by the breaker box and flips it on...just because. ? It happens. And that's just accidents. Also been on crews with a sicko or two and they purposefully did it. This one puke HV equipment electrician from Mississippi did it to three apprentices before general caught on. He'd move the lockout and blame it on the helper. I inherited one of his apprentices and the kid was seriously PTSD from his time with the Mississippi guy.
Master do have keyed alike sets, but generally they’re not red. Some of the jobs where I’ve been the authorised isolator, have had up to 50 yellow locks, keyed alike all with a key. They functioned much like an out of service tag. Another one we had were blue sets that only had one key between 10 locks. If you loose the key, the whole set goes in the bin.
This particular video still resonates with me when looking for a lock. This video is the single reason I have watched so many LPL and BB videos. This single core has shown me how a lock intended for a $150 bicycle can be made secure enough to protect several thousands. I use this knowledge to smith my own locks, as well as play with home made picks. I even have a set of my own home made pins. About 40 total between key/driver pins and bags of almost every manufactured pin size. I'm every bit of a low level hobbyist, and I can make better locks from my scrap bin than what master sells.
When it comes out, I'd like to be at the film's first feature showing, Where LPL and all the audience members pull out their carabiners, glowing With excitement as they attempt to pick locks while they watch simultaneously, finding Which moments they behold end up memorable for plot vs. when pins were found to be binding. 😂
Glad that I saw this video. My grandaughter-in-law needed to chain and padlock the driveway gate while my grandson was working a shutdown and this was the type of lock that she found in their tool shed. I was skeptical cuz it looked so plastic and flimsy. Glad to know that it isn't flimsy.
“Sitting on the couch practice picking a lock while watching a movie.” I bet Mrs LPL loves that. Mrs. LPL: “Did you see that scene? LPL: “Yes, dear. But I got the false set on 1.” Mrs. LPL: 😤
As an electrician I use the model 410 all the time as a lockout on 20 amp breakers. And I like these over the metal bodies just because of the lightweight. And when you have to have multiple people lock out on the same breaker it can be a good amount of Weight on the lockout. With enough weight they can get pulled off.
The most secure part of these locks, honestly, is the LOTO policy that goes with it. When trying to remove an LOTO lock without a key is a fireable offence without several pages of paperwork, it doesn't need to be pick/break proof. We had a bit of a problem with people confusing which lock was theirs since sometimes machines can have upwards of six locks on them. I bought a sheet of stickers from the dollar store and it looks odd, but it works.
I can say from my experience repairing industrial equipment that I have used a dozen (and sometimes more) locks on one piece of equipment to secure all sources of energy. I have procedures to test and secure power at the knife switch and up stream by a breaker or two depending on what we are doing. These are large Square D motor/Starter panels mostly running 480. We also have 120v control circuits, high-pressure air, usually liquid nitrogen, and sometimes hydraulics that all need to be secured. If there are multiple people working on the system, we use a multi-lock hasp and you can have up to 6 locks on one hasp. I have also seen a hasp securing another hasp so up to 11 locks on one source. Those would be too heavy hanging off a standard breaker arm, not to mention you have to carry these in around when not in use, so the plastic bodies are nice. Because we have safety officers, inspectors, and others that may come in and out of a process, the multiple combinations of cores is necessary as they are all keyed differently. We are all responsible for our own locks and keys. If someone gets hurt or is on leave when the power needs to be restored, the lock must be cut; that takes a bit of paperwork to justify it and usually we avoid this at all cost.
Hi LPL I'm a maintenance electrician working in a gas production facility. We have a lot of lethal machinery and high voltage equipment. We use the lock out Master locks in this video. Having watched it I feel a bit safer. I would think because my life is more important then someone's garage, is the reason Master Lock has made sure you can only open the lock with the one key it comes with.
Great content! Lock out tag out (LOTO) procedures are for isolating energy sources, not securing valuables. In almost all installations it is illegal to remove a lock you did not place. It is also common policy to ONLY use LOTO locks for LOTO purposes - they are not permitted to secure valuables. No need for a solid body - if you placed it, you’re the only one who will touch it. Regarding the better cylinder, it would be a tragic mistake if 2 unrelated contractors on the same job site had the same key and the wrong lock was removed by mistake. This is about safety and protecting someone from a potentially deadly energy release. So why not improve the tech in other locks? That’s up to Master, but they need to make sure for safety and liability reasons that their LOTO locks remain safe to use.
when I was working at a hydro electric plant, we had about 500-600 of these on various switchgears and electrical panels. Various people had various keys to unlock various systems of the lockouts. While no one there would have any reason to break a lock to one of the panels, making a simple accident, if someone through the wrong panel at the wrong time, there could be anywhere from a broken turbine to an explosion. Therefore, its better to have a lower chance of unlocking the wrong padlock then there is for having a secure lock body since there is no risk of someone trying to break it.
We use these at my work alot, the only reason I can think would be a good reason it has strong core. The reason would be that you don't want someone discreetly opening the lock, if someone snaps or breaks the lock it's totally disabled and clearly something is wrong, while if they pick it then flip the switch then re-lock it , then it could be perceived as still working properly but it's actually an unsafe scenario
If they have malicious intent but are planning ahead, couldn't they just break off the lock, flip the switch, and then put on a new LOTO lock of the same type - either one grabbed from storage, or one they purchased themselves?
Me in theater: is that guy doing what i think he is? LPL: Let me reset, counter rotation on one, got him set counter rotation on two, got him set counter rotation on 3....come on # 3 and were in. Me: OHHHHH hes just masterlocking
Me to the guy in front of me :”do you mind I’m trying to watch the film?” The guy in front on me: “ small click on one, Two is binding, *click* click on three.”
As a complete noob starting picking today, I used one of these as my first lock, as well as a random Brinks lock I found. I would just like to mention for the Master Model 410 LOTO lock, once picked, do NOT over rotate the core past 90 degrees, for if you do you will drop all of the key pins into the lock body. Spoken from experience, that satisfying clunk of a lock picked followed by the jingle of all 6 key pins falling out filled me with a lot of emotions. Lesson learned. Thankful this video was here for reference. As for the core, can confirm, 5 spools and 1 double serrated on 5. Also, picking using LPL Genesis Set.
I worked in a sawmill and we used lockouts all the time: changing saws, clearing jams, maintenance, etc. As the "Lock, Tag, and Try" procedures were implemented, the Company started out using standard Masterlock locks and went to great lengths to make sure there was no duplicate keys out there. People being people, the Company had to buy locks monthly to replace lost and missing locks. It became a weekly task for one person to put locks where they were needed and to make sure there were no duplicate keys. It seemed the Company was supplying locks for every shed in the County. Even though the plastic locks were more expensive, the Company cut their cost substantially when they made the switch. Also, Masterlock sells them as a system and makes it easy to avoid duplicate keys.
![[479] The Master Lock Paradox - Model 410 LOTO Padlock](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
