Third time's a charm? Not when it will involve cutting out and rebuilding the front suspension AGAIN! I've found some massive errors. Please consider supporting the channel through our merchandise. throttle-stop-garage.creator-...
"its not my fault... But it is still my mistake"... That is.. Dare i say. The most wisdom ever dispensed in an automotive youtube video. It might even be downright mature. 😜 Ive been there and it takes a lot to eat the money time and pride. Awesome as always.. Can't wait for more. Love this build!
Wow….. I would have made every mistake mentioned, including one you didn’t which is trust that ‘everything is fine, don’t worry’, and then not investigate further. Really looking forward to the next episode. I feel blessed to one of the tens of people who care.
You need to talk to the guys from FDF race shop they build suspension bits for lots of cars and the gaffer is a proper engineer and they are Canadian too 👍
Love your candour.....Don't beat yourself up too much; it's all about the journey ( using the modern patlance). What I really appreciate is that, notwithstanding setbacks, you're still enthusiastic
Building a project of this scale is darn complex. I am glad you caught it before you were lots further down the path. It’s like the turbo project I have been busy with for the last 5 years on my Land Cruiser 80 series with a petrol 1fzfe. I am about to pull the trigger on ECU number 3 as doing budget ECU believing the intelligence features are not necessary. Pulling my Gearbox and repairing for the 3rd time. Trusting you will have ongoing support from companies you trusted originally. Which have lost the personal touch. If this was easy many more people would do it. Thx for sharing the good and the bad. That is what makes channels like yours real. PS that manifold looks soooooo good. Well done on that piece of art. Hope your suspension geometry will still calculate around it.
Thanks Michael...if there is any good news...the required changes will ease fitment. I know I just typed that...fingers crossed. I will have to have the steering rack shortened, and tomorrow I test to see if we can set it lower.
Damn it sounds like you tried just about everything to check your work and still got screwed over. I really feel for you. It's definately been a learning exercise for you that you will never forget! Thanks for documenting this for the rest of us!
At least now you had a chance to let your ideas and the technology sink in, and do it right with the correct measurements. And that manifold looks like a gem :-)
Love every one of your videos, I find myself learning so much each time. I never really stopped to think why my favorite youtubers are my favorites, its not because we have projects even remotely the same, I have a couple of sportsman drag cars I take care of as well as my fleet of used and abused vehicles and my big project is a 59 chevy truck. The thing that resonates with me is that even though my project seems straight forward it isn't and nobody's parts just work on my setup. The chassis is a modified late 60's early 70's trailing arm rear with a mid 80's chevy front cross member converted to rack and pinion with metric 6 bolt hubs,. The rear end is a early 2000's metric version so none of the available bracket kits actually fit, and the Drivetrain is a truck LS dressed to appear vintage with a 4l65. Someone commented on how well everything is coming together, I had to stop and mention that nothing fit, not one thing none of the direct fit stuff is, the OEM parts and custom parts are all modified by me to fit, and tons of research is needed to figure out how to fabricate, modify, plumb and wire and install things that are not designed to work together when real accurate information is impossible to come by. Its interesting to see how simple things like the aftermarket "no pain" wiring harnesses take care of al the easy things but leave you hanging on the rest. Its weird to me to see these old large companies whos only focus was at one point to help people building something custom standardized on the way it was done 40 years ago and never grew with the times. Its expected that someone who wants to build something older is going to standardize on old technology and will accept poorly done engineering because it was the best we could do way back when.
I'm the same - the channels I watch all involve a few common things. They are not scripted, commercial tool shows. They're trying out an idea that few have worked out. They all stick it out to the bitter end and the final product shows.
@@ThrottleStopGarage no.. not easy.. But it will be right. And far superior. I thought I had everything figured out on my project too... Now I need to raise the engine an inch or 2 and cobble up an oil pan..lol
The day we stop making mistakes is the day we stop breathing. I created a mess by not check the engine harness on a jeep wagoneer and it had a melt down as soon as I unloaded it off the trailer. Keep up the good work.
i found what you were finding online. Random product videos selling "roll center correction kits" that either don't adjust roll center or people don't understand what is actually happening when they do it. There are a few good videos on youtube but most are just install videos of whiteline or hardrace kits. A good reference book that I use is Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken. I believe this is used as a ref book for a lot of automotive engineers. Had numerous discussions using this book with some people that really know their stuff. Merc F1 engineers and the like.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Well I can say that your videos are pretty great. You run into real world problems and resolve them with real world solutions. We've all been in similar situations where plans go sideways and what was once thought to be a sure-thing becomes a big issue. I like that you don't dismiss or cover-up those issues in order to make a "Look How Perfect Everything Goes For Me" type of video that many RU-vid creators tend to make. Stay humble, buddy. It keeps people coming back.
I like your quest for doing things the right way, but stay friendy to yourself! I wish you all the luck and wisdom man, it's going to be a beautiful car!
Happy to see another episode. I try to remember the old saying, "it can be done quickly, or it can be done correctly, but not both. I get really upset anyway. Im impressed with your attention to detail and of course your ability to remain calm when things dont look so good. The car will be done when it is ready to be done. In the meantime, maybe you can find a red Barchetta color to incorporate.
"None of this project has to make any sense at all." I think that is a great sentiment! I'm looking forward to the suspension content. I played with RC race cars for awhile, and roll center talk in the hobby is super silly and confused! For my purposes I figured out that the angle of the suspension arms relative to the center of gravity causes the suspension to either compress or rebound when side loads are applied.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I Don't know, I haven't understood a thing :-D Nevertheless, I was impressed by the level of details and your rig to check camber (and maybe toe?) during suspension travel
Go ahead, whine and complain, we're Canadian, we're allowed! Then, take it apart and fix it and apologize for the other guy's mistakes, lol! Big fan, especially loved the carbon fibre vids. most informative from a home garage point of view on RU-vid.
Interesting choice of suspension donor vehicles. I definitely don't think I would have chosen a C4 corvette for the front suspension. Maybe a C5, since I've heard plenty of times how the C4 just didn't handle nearly so well and that they began to make better handling cars when they released the C5. I'm sure a huge amount of that could be remediated with some properly tuned coilovers, though, so I'm sure the C4 suspension can be made to handle well.
I've got the suspension geometry tuned. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the design IMHO - it's a lot more modern than what was there and with my months of geometry work - I'm hoping it will work pretty well. C4's are still competitive at national level autocross...so they're not bad.
PRO-TIP: put something in place of your face. Turn on auto-focus. Allow it to focus on the object. Turn off autofocus. Remove the temp object. Mark it on the floor with blue tape. Guess what. Every time you stand on that market you’ll be on focus. ;) Pro-tip Increase your F stop to about 6f-7f You Depth of Field will increase allowing you to move back and forth without falling to far off focus. Get lights. You’ll need plenty of light. You are awesome.
Excellent work. Much respect for seeking the knowledge you need. I know the feeling and made a video for the channel I actually put effort into about demystifying "split rim" truck wheels including "widow makers" (booga booga). There's a ton of bad info out there, and repeated over and over! Anyway, looking forward to your roll center video. Keep it up. :)
Seems like the typical aftermarket parts. They don't quite fit properly than after many attempts to get it there out comes the grinders hammers and welders to make it right. Were all a little crazy when it comes to modifying cars. Looking forward to seeing the engineering and explanations on suspension geometry.
I'm one of those tens of people who are interested in good videos on suspension design and roll centers. Looking forward to the upcoming content. Are you going to get into how you determined the control arm locations for the spindles you used?
I for sure am doing control arm locations etc. I'm working on this video right now and it's WAY harder to get the stuff put together. I'm only doing this to provide information - I acknowledge that very few people will watch these episodes.
I can't wait for the video on roll centers. I've probably watched the same videos as you and I don't feel I've learned anything either. It's time to update the old meme: Those who can do; those who can't teach; and those who can't teach make RU-vid videos 🤣 (present company excluded)!
Love this project so much, I was watching your videos on carbon fibre parts and then thought I recognised the wing shape. I was doing research for my own 1968 Amazon! Are you open to selling any of the carbon parts? Would love to rock a carbon hood on my car
Can’t trust you anymore. I’m out. Just kidding, I’ll be along for the ride until the end. Lesser channels would have covered over the goofs. Love the content and format. If I ever get around to making a Mach 5 from scratch, your channel will have been instrumental in its success.
Suspension geometries are a black art! I read the Carroll Smith books which do a fair job of explaining things along with some of the old "HP" books, (they are getting to be very old now, I was in my 20's at the time) but the process is always a compromise. There is no perfect geometry, even if you had an active suspension. So how can you really figure in everything? You can't. You try to get it close to what you want, and then leave in some ability to adjust. The most intimidating geometry I saw were the ones with anti-dive and anti-squat characteristics. The trade off with those, as I understand it, was that they are less supple thereby providing a rougher ride. Just commizerating musings, good luck with the rest of your effort.
Cheers - trying to demystify the art of suspensions...I realize that I would need years of experience before really knowing, but I do know enough to know that people could use some useful information on the subject. This suspension has a lot of anti-dive and we're trying to get it from a weird location into working...like a full week pounding on this and I've moved it into many, many different positions and you can see it taking shape. I may even be understanding what is happening.
What you're going through is one of the reasons my mid-engine Beetle is using stock Miata subframes. As long as they're square to the chassis and the wheelbase is good, the geometry is known to work quite well.
lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58877 You will find that even with us being Canadian we make some fundamental mistakes. Like you I document them to save others the pain we endured. While I dealt with the c5/c6 front suspension it was a fellow builder that sent me the info to prevent some of the problems you went through. He also told me I couldn't post the info he gave me but I could share it with people using the same caveat. That lead me to believe that the info I received was from a GM engineers computer. It was appreciated and we get through this "with a little help from our friends", LOL. I follow and like everything you do and always get excited when a new video arrives. Keep it up!
Excellent - I'll read the thread. I found a correct year C4 and am going out to measure it up tomorrow. I'll stop banging my head against the wall soon.
I watch all your videos but I couldn't watch this one for more than a couple of minutes... Image stabilisation is a pretty common thing these days, if your main camera doesn't have it, use your mobile to film, every modern iphone/android for at least 5 years has had image stabilisation.
