hey man could i borrow one of your books maybe two days thank you man a friend thats all heart, lol ill even apolagize for being sarcastic thats what friends are for
For me, also an INFJ, when I start stepping back, it is about conserving my precious, limited energy and not wasting it much more than it is about passive aggression. I admit I can get passive aggressive as well, but when I have internal conflict about a person’s motives my step back is meant to give me distance and space to observe and process where this person fits in my life.
I get your point. I would call this reaction as detachment rather than intentionally passive-aggressive. It’s just our Ni function starts to step up and take charge while Fe withdraws, and that gives us an emotionless robot vibe, and we will be in the 360-observing mode; such a state is way contrary to our daily warming style, thus making people scared, I guess.
I don't think it's passive aggression. If I don't have anything for you emotionally, then you'll get nothing from me. No explanation, either. I have nothing to provide. I think passive aggression is on purpose, with an intent to hurt the other person or get them to see that you're upset. I just don't have anything to say or give.
I got fired from a really good paying job because i just couldn't let the stupid shit my boss would say. I let it slide for a long time and finally i told hi how actually stupid he was.
My goodness the passive aggressiveness really is a thing, isnt it?? I doorslam because theres usually no nice way to put it to someone, or they are persistent to the point where theres no direct way out without conflict or ugliness. Sometimes Ill start asking questions because Ive already inuitively measured the range of ones moral compass(or lack thereof). Having them verbalize their views helps me reinforce my decision to sever ties.
"Having them verbalise their views helps me reinforce my decision to sever ties." -- That's a great way of putting it, Shawn. This is quite common among INFJs.
Man I feel like you're exposing my secret methods😅 and yeah sometimes a little conflict is so much better than the passive-aggression leading to the door-slam if you want to salvage the friendship.
I think the problem is as an Infj, if your morals are off I don't care if I lose you. I'm kind and I want harmony, but I'm cold as ice if I think you are going to disturb my harmony.
I am a disagreeable INFJ (took the Big 5 personality test and along with being highly open-minded and creative, I scored somewhat high on the disagreeable scale). I don't *enjoy* conflict, but I prefer it to guessing-games. While I do identify with everything you described here, I'd add in, before the door slam, "Direct confrontation." A part of me always hopes I myself am missing information, and that being direct with someone I'm upset with will give them a chance to clarify/bring about greater understanding. I don't like door-slamming until I know I've done my best to communicate.
Thanks for sharing, Alanna. Interestingly, I'm not as agreeable on that dimension of the Big 5 as might be expected, so I relate to what you are saying. Sometimes it is a case of figuring out what is more stressful: a quick confrontation allowing quick resolution, or a drawn-out passive aggression game. Usually quick confrontation is better. I've noticed that I almost always go for that approach when I'm in a self-confident phase. It's harder to pull off when I'm less self-confident. (PS. I checked your channel, you are a talented songwriter! How is the fifth album coming along?)
@@RensRoom Thank you for your reply (and for your content, I have been watching quietly for a couple of years and I love your approach/manner of presenting things)! Likewise, confidence plays somewhat of a role for me, as does my level of investment: the more precious the bond, the more motivated I am to communicate. The exception to that is in a situation where I perceive injustice or manipulation, in which case my hackles are raised immediately and I waste no time in voicing my frustration - regardless of the degree of intimacy present. A bit of a honeybadger at times. :) Thanks! The fifth album is completed and is being released on September 17 - it'll be on iTunes, Spotify, etc.
@@AlannaBoudreau Thank you for being a supporter of my channel for so long, Alanna. I have 17 Sept. bookmarked to check your record on Spotify! I’m assuming your earlier material is there as well, so I’ll try it out later today. I also subscribed to your channel ;-) PS. Your surname sounds French!
I am very agreeable according to that test but I also will use "direct confrontation" with the exact same thinking you mentioned. However I will only do this with those who are very close to me, such as a partner or a good friend. Most people do not get this option, I will simply not bother. So as you mention below it's the level of intimacy and investment of a relationship. Likewise if I perceive an injustice I can be very confrontational. Once in a long line for a movie with a group of friends we all saw someone skipping us all to stand at the head of it, while also laughing and making fun of it because no one dared to say anything. Bit of a rough neighbourhood so people keep quiet. Yes I was that person who walked up to a guy twice my size and barked "Back of the line, thanks!" (I was still being formal too?!) So I find also in this case the more someone is a stranger the easier it is to confront them. In the first case with someone close, the confrontation is rational, softly spoken, trying to explain in order to avoid miscommunication. In the second case with a stranger, it is harsh, unrelenting and their feelings and reasoning are irrelevant. And then everybody else is in that grey area!
I think the Big 5 helps a lot with personal insight. I have very high agreeability and have discovered this makes me overly vulnerable to disappointments and to being taken advantage of. Its why I prefer people to be straight up with me so I don't invest more energy with them. ENFP
Ren, your focus points are right for this INFJ! Our reduction of warmth by cooler politeness through formal speech should be recognised pretty quickly. If they continue to push me without listening to what I have told them then my next stage of withdrawal is very noticeable. I won’t waste my time or energy on them.
I agree with there being a growing distance, accompanied, paradoxically, by more politeness. Fe becomes more superficial, Ti becomes more prominent in my case (short, polite answers, quick nodding, flatter voice, less and less eye contact, less and less personal interest or involvement...). Because I tend to overdo Fe as an NiFe, the times when I do not it can come across as cold. When I really AM cold or antagonistic, though, people get the creeps (I wish they didn't, I have the right to not be nice or even get angry from time to time, as do others).
This is my experience as well. If someone is not getting the point, my Ti forces a cold harshness and cutting truths. Sometimes, stunning others as it is usually balanced with a softness of delivery. However, after many attempts or in the face of their extreme pride, I will slice them with my words and leave them to ponder their meaning. In time, I will remain open in the hope that they will awaken to the truth of what was said. If they approach me in humility, the warmth returns for them in abundance, and it is as if their slate has been completely wiped anew. I think the 'creepy' factor comes with the intensity of this process. The nice thing is, we only have power over our actions and reactions, and if they are creeped out by the sudden elucidation of their behaviors, that's on them to grapple with. I've learned to free myself of it.
@@loref4200 oh my goodness. You words make sense! I've been trying to understand my other half who is also an infj as I am too. Except I can't read myself. It's the trees for the forest infj thing. I swear when he would be mad at me he would do the most bizarre and disgusting things, that to most others would be repulsive and creepy. In fact people who don't know him well on bad days would assume he is creepy. I did not see it. Now I am starting to see he can intentionally be creepy. But it never gets him a normal reaction from me. So my question is...when do you know you're out of the bad end of reconciliation? A lot of my mistakes I realize them far too late. Also being on the spectrum means I am sometimes slower than most. That even includes passive agressiveness. So i don't even know when he's being awful to me until too late! To make matters worse he is a trained counsellor...help me fellow infjs.. I just found this guys channel and he is hilarious!
Good one, I feel called out 😅 The people who understand my subtle cues are important to me (and come along rarely). I'm very slowly learning the lesson that conflict resolved in a healthy way leads to closer connections with others but there's a lot of old patterning to undo there.
This is the exact flow of anger that I've experienced, as well. I don't particularly like dealing with anger, but it can be underlying for some time to simmer, mull it over, and figure out what is going on in reality. It's typically a sign of something amiss either in another in our sphere of influence, or in ourselves. I have struggled with passive aggression, but I don't enjoy it when I'm in that state; I try very hard to be mindful of getting out of it as soon as possible. Where I draw a line in my passive aggression, is in defamation of character openly to others, so as not to cast the shadow of my experience with them for others (of course unless if I am approached by another and asked about it specifically-- then I have no reason not to be honest with objective reasons for any cause to worry). I've learned that I have to confront others to give them a voice, and to achieve a true sense of harmony and balance, if ever it could be achieved. The caveat being that they are shown to be healthy in their actions and reactions with others. This can be obvious--and it is appropriate that you wouldn't want to necessarily confront someone who has been shown to be unhealthy in their interactions. If they don't usually respond in a sane way, it makes sense that you wouldn't logically engage them unless you absolutely felt you had to, in hopes of doing the 'right' thing. It's all a bit of a careful balance of discernment, grace, and trying to be as objective as possible. Still, I will interact in a civil way, and at a distance until some kind of understanding can be achieved (if ever). For me, door-slamming is extremely violent. The 'door slam' is only ever done with careful deliberation, sometimes giving multiple opportunities for change over a period of time, allowing a sort of fade and then re-connection (as you alluded to). The door is always cracked because the hope is that they would change, that they would see that they are capable of doing so. Most of the time, we build boundaries or walls with a gate, and we're intentional about who we let in fully. They can enter the 'antechamber', but only a select few can enter the 'inner room'. The notion that a 'door slam' is easy, or is done often, is a grave misconception of the stereotype (which is why I think it was appropriate that you left it as the last resort and the most severe). There are some friendships, which we will still think on even after they've been untethered due to circumstance or some aspect of life which forced change or distance. Those which cause us pain, are kept at an arm's length with boundaries, instead of being completely let go, if possible, on the off chance that they come to their senses and have gleaned something from life experience. If one were to come to me in humility, recognizing their involvement, and asking to start over.. I would be remiss not to give them grace in their approach (even if it meant keeping them at a distance for some time to build trust again). There is something beautiful that happens when we can do this; when we lay down our defenses, and look in another's eyes as human beings. In those moments, I cannot turn away, for I know how far I can fall in my human frailty. Knowing this in myself, how can I not extend grace should the other ask it of me? Thank you for the video, Ren.
Oh my god this was fantastic. Sorry if Im coming off a little carried away. I try to avoid such long messages, mostly out of fear of going into more detail than is welcome, but this is just how deeply we process these thoughts. Thank you for taking the time to break it down so eloquently.
INFJ says I love you so much. I will Pretend to be perfect and hide who I am for you. But if you don't read my mind and take care of my unknown needs, I will door slam you. Such wonderful people.
I feel some type a way about this video, and realize I have some bad traits when I get mad at someone. Most of the time, it’s due to needing to get a negative or toxic person out of my life. Or, someone who just doesn’t understand me, or gets too demanding and wants to spend every waking hour with me. I get tired of trying to explain myself, or saying no over, and over again. It gets exhausting to explain yourself time, and time again. It gets exhausting having that person mad at you because they don’t understand why your not into going out every 5 minutes. I rarely door slam, but it has happened a few times. Then, there’s toxic people like family members who I would love to door slam. But, cannot so they constantly see me go between stages 1-4. I do definitely door slam them for months at times, but have to open the damn door back up. Because, I cannot take the conflict the full door slam would cause.
I think from this video this is confirmation I'm a infj. You've described my process of dealing with let's say difficult people. The fact that I'm still calm and polite but I'm also distanting myself from them before I close everything Down with that person.
Working on the door slam bit Have NO problem cutting ties and going completely ghost 👻. I have been trying let people know how I feel before I walk away, just so they have a sense of closure.
All I heard is we behave as royalty by maintaining our composer and poise while amongst peoples who have shunned us in a passive way, sometimes publicly. Exquisite!
Good encapsulation of the process, thank you! I'm not aware of being mad so much as I'm unsure of my previous assessment of the person's character, and I'm trying to test responses and re-assess the connection. And I prefer to keep a distance until I've made up my mind. Although, I do have one helluva temper when I've finally had enough. My door slam comes with punctuation! 😂
to anyone here who needs to hear this: if they wouldnt do the same for you, they are not your friend if they cant care for themselves, its not your job to care **for** them even if you really care about them do not be guilt tripped for taking care of yourself by leaving those that bring you down
Ah... # 4: being 'unavailable' is 'closing the door' as 'quietly as possible'. ty, for you time and talent. Interesting, this was as informative, as it was familiar (which of course isn't a paradox, though... it might read as one). Have a gorgeous day.
Hahaha the subtle questioning is exactly my style! Also with raging RU-vid commenters. Sometimes I find it a fun sport to turn heated youtube arguments into respectful discussions that way. I've had some interesting conversations with hardcore Brexiteers that way. When Im at my angriest, my gaze becomes ominous, Somehow I like that strength :-) I don't agree with the doorslam though, thats more of mourning process to me. Nice that you're uploading regularly again, mr Fabulous!
I think door slam is a spectrum kind of thing where one can also door slam a person (mentally and emotionally) while still communicating with him or her. I do this for the sake of being polite when I just want to cut off. >_
@@RensRoom haha, probably. Then there's door slamming where we cut off communication and it affects us mentally. The best kind is complete one... no emotional and conversational ties. :)
@@chaoticbreeze6262 If the person you wish to avoid is toxic, that is understandable. We are not obliged to stay friends or spouses with people who cause us harm. Although I wouldn't cut blood ties completely even in that case.
As an ENFP who is here to confirm that she is actually mad at me, I just want to say to you dear INFJs, don't escape from conflict just like she did to me. My heart is broken right now because I prefer she shout at me, say anything to me instead of put all of that emotions into her heart and soul and then destroy her inner beauty. I prefer my time, my inner world, my feelings, my heart became broken by her angriness instead of being in this situation. I confront her because I knew that she is mad at me but she said "I am fine, don't worry" but I was worried. Now with every second passes, the distance between us is become longer and longer and I don't know about her but my heart is shattered and I can't be with someone else untill I can reach a better place in my life. So please in order to not be in my position, please tell your loved ones how much do you care about them instead of being silent, go for it even if it is going to break her/his heart, at least in future you have no regrets. I said this to my broken heart infj best friend and now he and her girlfriend are dating again and I am happy for them and wish my infj girl did the same with me.
Each level is a step back.. so by the time you reach number five you are most of the way out the door... basically you will just close it behind you. And walk away...
@@timefortee If the explanation was that simple, almost everyone in every video would have the same showing up. Just thought he should be aware and see if he can enlarge a frame or two. Maybe he has experiences he doesn't mention.
Haha, all these signs are very relatable in their order. But, another thing that I experience is the expression also depends on the closeness/comfort level with the person. While I prefer passive aggression to show my anger ideally, I lash out pretty often if I believe that my actions won't leave an everlasting imprint (particularly family) or someone I trust a lot. If I deeply think/care about them, I can't bottle up and wait too long for them to understand my reasons... usually small impulsive confrontations too. I've never been able to door slam anyone completely as I end up feeling guilty or they want to rekindle the old terms.
I can relate to what you write. Also, I hate doorslams and the fact that INFJ as a type is associated with that notion. I don't do doorslams and have a very hard time understanding anyone who does- to me it is one of the most selfish and cowardly things a human can do. Kinda the opposite of noble or honorable imo.
@@timefortee I agree with you. I think any type can be associated with it, especially if they're prone to bottling up. However, I don't despise the idea of doorslams. I am capable of doing it and would even want to do it sometimes but, I'll avoid it because it's still selfish and immature. Cutting ties mutually is better.
@@chaoticbreeze6262 I used to not be against it, while not necessarily resorting to it, myself (in the past). But with age I realize more and more how it contradicts what I consider universal human (humanistic) values (Fe). Also, perhaps Ti and Fi heavy types and subtypes do it way more than Fe (and even Te) types. From my limited observations.
@@timefortee Yes, it does. Probably because of this reason, most Fe users don't exactly prefer going for it. They might be doing it in extremely hopeless situations. Even I've seen a few Fi-heavy types cutting off quite often or taking a break from communication to recharge themselves. I find too much guilt in trying out all these. While it's explainable for Fi and Fe, I wonder why Ti users are more prone to this than Te?
@@chaoticbreeze6262 Interesting thoughts! Yeah Fi users seem to have an easier time doorslamming people they feel are not accepted as "good for them" by their "Fi gut feeling". Self-protection, if you ask them. However, their Fi isn't a final authority on whether another person is actually good and moral or vicious and toxic. Fi is not perfect, although its users seem to have a strong tendency to believe it is. Over-relying on it even when facts speak against that "gut feeling", and when misunderstandings cause the other person to be misperceived by the Fi user... One should always remain humble and know there is a chance one could be wrong, imo. As for Ti, isn't it even easier than with Fi? Ti is the opposite of Fe. It doesn't need people, it's cold and independent, unless it is balanced by healthy extraverted functions. Ti cuts off very very easily, I'd even say they're the actual kings of doorslamming. It is both easy and causes them no pain or regrets afaik.
As a INFJ myself, I find what you say true in all steps. However not all INFJs would go down the list like this. Whenever I’m angry, I tend to emotionally shut down while being polite to the person all the while physically distancing myself from them at the same time. In my mind, as soon as I am away from them I shut the door on them cause in my mind, it’s a lost cause. Unfortunately I am a stack jumper so I would immediately “foresee” my future relations with this person (NI) and after that it should go to FE which helps considers the persons feelings, socializing etc but it doesn’t, it goes to TI which helps both interpreting NI’s mystical nature and helps FE makes logical judgements but since FE was jumped over, it goes over TI only sides with NI. This is just in my case though and yeah it Tenesī to shock ppl when I do this.
I chew a little slower and don’t blink-then add a big fake smile….but then, I might do that when I’m deep in thought and realize I didn’t hear you so I add the smile but smaller. I suppose I have a limited range.
This is currently happening between me and my partner because my paranoia has caused him to lose trust in me, we are already at conspicuously absent level :( I'm committed to still making this relationship work, I am truly, truly apologetic for the suspicions I had about him but I am afraid of how long it will take before he chooses to stop distancing himself.
You look like my ex like twins. Even the way of speaking and moving and everything. Your calmness is like balsam on my damaged phycology, because he was very abusive. He was very grouchy, pettich and unsatisfied. Very toxic with narcissistic behaviors. Thank you.
Hello 👋 I know this question is not related to this video topic, but: Do you also think that a lack of Te manifests in having poor boost (something like laziness and fear from lack of experience) for following a strict routine schedule, like sport exercises, diets, school, work tasks? It can also manifest in having poor awareness of your acomplishments like events from the past and not being aware of your status (people' opinion of you) ?
Yes. The issue is Ni+Ti often looks like inactivity from the outside, but from the inside it is managing all of the known questions of the universe. The representation of these things are difficult to manifest outwardly without intentionality in the present, and a conscious deliberate effort in developing Te systems to bring these notions from the internal to the external in a systemized way.
Lol all buttoned up on the weekend 😉 The subtle questioning can often bring someone back to their senses if they happen to be acting or speaking in irrational ways. Sort of like talking someone down from doing something that would be harmful to themselves or others. Suppose could be a strong negotiation tactic as well. Think I'm the type that will be direct once I digest and figure out my feelings. I usually will tell the person that has hurt my feelings or done or said something harmful to me. This is usually when you find out about their true character, as those who are toxic typically will put the blame on you or others for what they have done. Btw... Hope you are having a beautiful weekend. 🤗❤🌄
This was really eye opening. I have always thought that I am not an angry person or at least don't experience that kind of feelings often mainly because I associated anger with some extreme feelings and behaviours. But this made me think, is perhaps this how anger looks for me? Different but still anger...
The issue I run into the most only infj and INTJ have the capacity to take all information, process all of it and come to an informed decision/opinion based on all of the information. The other types can't do all. I have hope but I keep running into their limitations. It's frustrating and sad.
Each stage is stepping back... so you have 5 chances to stop the behaviour you are showing.. the door slam is when we say enough and give up on you. bye bye.
Have a former ESTP friend whom after 2 years, still doesn't realize he is a former friend....often attempts to call me, instant message, etc. Wow, bro. Get a clue.
But don’t you find that selfish? Think about it. An INFJ had something they are mad or resentful about on their best friend, but never once bring it up. They sprinkled hints expecting others to pick it up like some guessing games, whilst they still pretend like they care and still regards us as their best friend. 10 years into friendship, INFJ was getting married, promised they would make us their best man, but ended up choosing some other group of friends they only knew not long ago instead, plus us not getting a proper invitation but that they will try to ‘sneak us and squeeze us’ in. I may have made mistakes, but people deserve to know how you REALLY feel. And it is incredibly selfish, because now their friends were kept in this illusion that we have been great friends and we are all good. I get it, your personality tend to be like that. But since you guys love to be selfless, think about how doing this is the opposite of what u try to be. People deserve to know your true feelings and know the real you. Just saying.
Overall is excellent summary! Thank you for sharing your deep understanding & presentation! UT is hard for me to explain myself. But you clarify it very well! Thank You!❤
Hi Matilda, I agree. Sometimes I take a step back from someone if they broke my trust. As a protective measure. I think what Ren is saying is if your motive is to be vengeful and hurt the person, more than just to protect yourself.
