5 Things I don't Like About The Audiophile Community 

Add another for audiophile snobs, people who look down on others with lower price tier gear. It's all about the journey of enjoying music according to what you can afford and choose to buy.

If it sound good and measures good, it’s good If it sound bad and measures good, it’s bad If it sound good and measures bad, we’re measuring the wrong thing

Audiophile reviews sound suspiciously like wine reviews . " it has a hint of oak and vanilla with a saffron finish . The crimson red viscosity allows the aroma to linger on the pallet far longer than thinner wines . a slight amount of sediment was detected but not enough to show up on my lips when i was slobbering due to excessive consumption ."

As an audio reviewer, I like the this! I don't mind derailing hype trains, but I don't aim to do so. I go in hoping all the products are awesome because it's so much easier to do a review a product I love compared to one that's just mediocre. I like being made aware when I'm wrong because it means I can stop and start being right! My #1 thing I hate is when people in this hobby/industry forget that this all supposed to be fun! None of this stuff is a need, they're all wants. Let's just have fun with it. Let's argue, but keep it fun.

worst thing? using fancy ass headphones to listen to headphone reviews and not listening to your music or discovering music. Too obsessed on the motorcycle and not enough on the actual ride.

Currawong, you hit the nail right on the head hear and the things you mentioned are helping to hurt the community, but unfortunately this type of mentality translates well outside of just audio and is going on in many forums.

"95% of "audiophiles" own budget or cheap equipment, but they read tons of articles, which made them "audiophile experts". This is what an electronics engineer and audiophile, who repairs and makes his own audio equipment, told me.

People who trash talk your purchase is the worst! I made a purchase that I enjoy , and someone just said “your purchase is over rated, you should have bought ‘X’, it’s ‘X’ or nothing”… from that point on, I will not share anymore and just keep it to myself, and enjoy on my own.

Definitely on the money. I've been in this hobby just since lockdown, coming from photography & wine tasting, and finding it confusing how polarised the community is on simple things such as cables, jitter, high-res, etc. Both my other hobbies had brand loyalties, but most photographers could be kept in check by seeing amazing photos from other brands. The difference with audiophiles is simply that human capacity for hearing is so much weaker in the sense it's more subjective, but this is no different to wine in that sense, yet the two communities could not be so different. I suspect the difference is due to audiophillia being rooted in science, because as you say this allows misinterpretations and misuse of science (via bad theory supported by equally bad measurements) that facilitates a sense of misguided righteousness that's just not here in wine, thus ensuring a mutual respect for others subjective differences in taste. I'm so glad you've raised this issue as it's been bothering me a lot recently after having bizarre discussions on RU-vid. I've since realised the science is complex (and I have two science degrees in different fields), so my response is humility in my ignorance of a subject I don't understand from first principles. Even if I figure out the science to my satisfaction, I'm not going to get involved in debates, because when people's minds are made up, then they're not for changing....why should they if they 'know' they're right? No, my plan is to just buy my gear and enjoy the music. Here's my sole contribution to the community: do you really *know* the science or do you just have a high level working model....an interpretation of the science? If you're unsure, then take one of your conclusions e.g. 'Nygquist proves high-res is BS' and research it not in audiophile forums, but from other sources - locate Nyquist's original paper and find non-audiophiles who discuss and explain it so you can understand new concepts at a high-level. Drill down on these concepts until you understand throughly the concepts behind the maths (but not necessarily the maths itself). At that point, test your understanding by not looking stupid getting tips from a physicist, then find audiophiles in forums who can discuss at your level how this all this science & its assumptions equates to the quality of sound we can hear. Please then write a paper for the rest of us, but if at any point it proves too much, then how about acting with humility in forums and elsewhere? Thanks.

Hype trains are my #1 frustration with online audiophiles. #1 frustration with in-person audiophile community is the decades I’ve lived with not been taken seriously at shops by the middle-aged men’s audio club.

Spot on. I prefer your in-depth approach. Keep doing a wonderful job.

Very common in any relatively niche, technical community on the internet. There's been a lot of issues with people in the visual media space as well, people reviewing TV's and bashing anyone else who reviews the same TV, getting bent out of shape because people disagree with their color calibrations, etc. In my field, you see a lot of this with Linux snobs. People who think that everyone in the world is stupid for not using linux but then gatekeep the community and treat any newcomers like dirt just for lack of experience, instead of offering good advice and leaving the condescending attitude at home. I think it comes down to pure hipster mentality. People like being experts in a small niche and they don't want it to become mainstream, because then they won't be as special any more.

I love music. Once in a while I get involved in the whole Hifi thing and then I enter into a world where music comes second. Many "audiophiles" only listen to perfectly recorded music, endlessly tweaking and tweaking to make fewer and fewer pieces of music sound ever more wonderful. If you really love music you'll discover that many of the greatest recordings aren't in perfect sound. In my experience, the most neutral system is the one most likely to play the widest range of music. A large part of the listening experience is beyond simple science and measurement.

More than 40 years ago my friend and I, both audio enthusiasts, were at CES. The audio snobbery that existed then was just as virulent as it is now. Most of that snobbery was expressed in print at The Absolute Sound. We made a pilgrimage to their booth. My friend thought it might be funny to introduce a new term to the lexicon of the pseudointellectuals there. We began a fake discussion of gear we had previewed at the show so all could hear us without being obvious. He invented the term "gray in the midrange" By the end of the show, it was being used everywhere the "audiophile" ventured.

The internet and especially social media brings out the worst in people.

The worse for me is when I hear something and think it sounds good, and then reading a review that points out faults I hadn't picked up on (or don't care about). I then find myself siding with the reviewer. LOL So the reviewer, essentially, destroyed my enjoyment of something. I know it's all down to me, but it happens. I used to have audiophile tendencies, but these days I go with "I like what I like", which sometimes means something that others don't like, I happen to enjoy - and it's all good.

As a "high-end" manufacturer of audio components, Great American sound Co. or GAS Co. was continually approached by "golden-eared audiophiles" claiming the amplifier or preamplifier they owned clearly sounded superior to any of the GAS Co. products we were producing. I would always invite these individuals into the sound room with their preferred audio component and proceed to connect it to the switching system. I would have them select a comparable GAS Co. component that I also connected to the system and then carefully adjusted both components with a precision AC voltmeter for equal levels. Before the testing commenced, I would give the audiophile the remote lanyard--a small handheld box with a toggle switch labeled A or B. I always told them that the "A" position was their piece of equipment and the "B" position was the GAS Co. equipment. After exhaustively auditioning the two components, the golden eared individual would always have a litany of subjective terms that negatively described the sound of the GAS Co. component such as: "overall dullness", "lack of transparency", "ill defined bass", "irritating midrange", "shrill highs", "lack of depth", "unstable imaging"..... ad nauseam. While the audiophile was espousing these opinions, I would bring the level of the music back up, then casually walk over to the components, switch off the power to the GAS Co. component and ask the audiophile to please toggle the lanyard switch between A and B. Unbeknownst to the audiophile, I had connected the switching system exclusively to their component only. During the test when they switched from A to B, the sound audibly dropped-out during the switching process for a few milliseconds cueing the listener that something had changed. When the audiophile realized that I had clearly demonstrated that their golden ears were not golden at all, they would quickly disconnect their component from the system, and while stomping out of the listening room, turn around, and, depending on how invested they were in believing they had golden ears, generally espouse a litany of profanities directed at me. Don't shoot the messenger! I repeated these same A/B listening tests many times with various individuals and groups and determined there was a direct correlation between audiophiles and lovers of music; audiophiles were always angered; music lovers were always enlightened, especially women! This same switching system was also utilized for loudspeakers and phono cartridges since GAS Co. was selling "Sleeping Beauty" "moving-coil" phono cartridges made by Coral Corp. in Japan. There was no need try to fool the listener as I did with electronics, switching between different loudspeakers and phono cartridges always produced easily discernible audible changes in the musical timbre characteristics. David Riddle

There is only personal preference in this hobby, nothing's written in stone ..Seek advice by all means and experiment for yourself but stick to what you you enjoy....graphs don't lie but people do...and remember it's all about the music at the end of the day.

I’m glad you took a stance on these things. I’ve always appreciated your humble approach to reviews and unnecessary drama. I’ve seen this toxic power play play out time and time again across hobbies/fandoms. The toxic leaders usually are compensating for a lack of perceived power in the real world. It’s ironic for them to present themselves intelligent when they simply adapted the poo flinging tactics of our genetic ancestors. Keep up the great work with reviews and being a positive influence on the community.

ordinary audiophile: gear for listening music. so-called "audiophile": music for listening gear.

I can think of this bald guy that often trashes Sennheiser with measurements that fits perfectly within the profile of your critique...

Completely agree. I have learned a lot about headphones and amps by reading on forums such as head-fi and it has helped me through many of my purchases, yet at times I feel ashamed belonging to the "audiophile" community as for a lot of folks in this community it is all about their egos and intellectual pride. However this is not very different from other hobbies or even professions. One thing I have learned is that, reading on forums is essential if one wants to know the products, but one should have a basic idea about their own likes and dislikes and should use common sense to sort the good content from the bad, on audiophile forums. Finally, avoid extreme and purely technical opinions, leave some room for what sounds good to your ears, for the type of the music you listen to.

Bravo Curawong! Brave video

Just wanna say thanks for taking this subject up, and also for the way you do it here, in a respectful manner for all to learn. The toxic of this wonderful hobby, need to be addressed once in a while, as it seems it continues to pop up? I guess there is no easy way to address this, but you are taking a big chunk for us all, so thanks again for that. Btw, i couldn't agree more in what you are pointing out here. Cheers from Denmark & peace.

I am blissfully ignorant of this online drama. I pursue the audio hobby from a value for dollar proposition. I follow many content creators with small channels typically reviewing sub 300 dollar equipment because that's pretty much all I need or want. I still do my own research. I'm not interested in measurements, I worked a decade in industrial manufacturing, my hearing ain't going to square with a fancy grid. I want a certain quality for a certain dollar amount. And thanks to the RU-vid reviewer community I discovered ChiFi IEMs, the Koss Kph30i, the ifi Zen DAC, the Xduoo Link, and 20 dollar replacement cables that work just frigging fine. People bashing brands or disparaging other reviewers do not get views from me. I appreciate this channel for the brass tax information and while it always seems abundant, I'm not making a purchase of even 20 dollars on a solo review. I'm genuinely sorry you felt like you had to speak on this subject but I'm glad you did. Personally I've avoided HiFi forums and will continue to do so. Since I appreciate the work you do I'll be sure to drive whatever support I can your way. My incessant babbling about audio has wore many friends down to the point they want to get into it as well. I'll be sure to recommend stopping here.

Good points. I saw this before in an audio related list mail forum many years ago. We had industry leaders willing to share their knowledge with us about speaker design. Unfortunately we had several idiots that would attack everyone who disagreed with their pet theories. Eventually the guys who's day job was audio left as they didn't need to subject themselves to the nonsense and waste of time. Your reviews are excellent and valuable. Thanks for the time and effort you put in.

As a long time headphone fan, even back in the day with the HD-414, I love this channel Currawong is very clear. You get a real sense of what he really likes, and more importantly, why. Great channel. Keep it up!

I remember wanting to get a set of audio technica headphones back then since i liked the sound and look of it when I borrowed one from my cousin so I saved money in any way i can (as someone who lives in a 3rd world country, having something like 20 bucks is already kind of a big thing), I happily posted my new headphones online bought with my hard earned money aaand all the snobs said things like it's not good enough, my purchase suck or I wasted my money, this brand and model is better, stuff like that.

I work in the Porn industry and we have a lot of the same issues.

Things I cant stand are people pushing overpriced gear/cables and claim "it sounds better" but not being able to break down and explain in technical terms or examples of why its better. Synergistic Research is notorious for this

Thank you for your honesty, integrity, and knowledge. We’ll put together.

Go you! Love how you're keeping it real. I think we all have our top fives but don't disclose them as it's not how you usually win friends. So, someone as important as you called out a large portion of the community on how you see fit. Kudos.

Five things I live by with audio, 1Listen to and enjoy my music every day, 2 Stick graphs and charts where the sun doesn't shine, 3 Learn to lie to the wife that you really need a new piece of HI FI, 4 Vinyl and CD, one is not better than another they just have a different tone, get over it, 5 I don't like streaming, it feels I'm just borrowing music from a library.

I found your channel last year but just now stumbled onto this video. You have a very good approach to your reviews and your experience combined with that leads me to factor your opinion into gear I have not heard. I got a Bifrost 2 because of your video and it turned out so great that I bought another one for my bedroom. Measurements are nice and give a starting place, but you need to hear things for yourself and be honest about it. Thank you for your content. You are invaluable.

Good stuff Currawong.."I don't have to push other people down, to boost myself up." Good stuff. Yeah, around the audiophile community, can be very toxic at times, sadly. Nice points. 💯✌🏼

I'm not really into headphones, just speakers, but I stumbled upon your video, listened, and I agree with what you said. I would say that much of that applies to people in any hobby. Woodworkers, photographers, automobile enthusiasts, all seem to have their pet brands and like to trash others. It seems like any time some folks spend a lot of money on something, they need to constantly reinforce their own choices by attacking the choices of others.

How does an optical cable sound different from another? I'm genuinely asking, I would love to learn the science behind different optical cables

People often have too much of their ego invested in their hobbies. Instead of simply enjoying their hobby and trying to learn as much as they can they choose to derive pleasure from proving themselves superior in social settings. Then there are RU-vidrs who try to generate views by promoting conflict or disputes. Unfortunately we have too much of that today in our commercial media as well whether it’s sports talk programs or cable news. But the sad truth is that many people derive satisfaction from witnessing or seeing conflict as well which enables and rewards bad behaviour.

Great to see many people got it. Sorry to see some people are just here to trash me. But that's the internet.... A couple of things which a few people (those here to trash me) got wrong: This video doesn't refer to a particular person, but is inspired by the actions of a number of people over many years. Every few years someone new comes along and feeds a hate-train of some form. I'm not anti-measurement. I'm against using a limited subset of measurements to make misleading, or even false, declarative statements. My comment about my experience with optical cables was over 10 years ago. Back then, even flagship DACs (such as the Marantz Project D1 I reviewed) were transport-quality sensitive and would sound terrible with a cheap optical connection. Nowadays such an experience is far less likely as even cheap DACs are far better made and will handle the high amount of jitter in optical signals without generating sound-quality degrading noise. You can still see the differences between digital input quality ... in measurements! It varies between products though. Some do a better job than others. My point was nothing to do with optical though, it was that making assumptions as I did back then (and as so many people clearly still do now) is really a reflection of ignorance. Now we know what ignorance breeds.... hate and maliciousness, even discussing audio it seems.

Been in the hobby since 2004. I think "flavor of the monthism" is a bad thing. Mid 2000s NOS DACs were supposedly how "real" music sounds. Then the hype train ended. Then multibit comes along and supposedly that is how "real" music sounds.

Nothing wrong with keeping it simple and trusting your ears!

I remember a few years ago when i bought the Audio GD NFB 28.38 AMP/DAC and i got slandered for it when just sharing a picture of it. A barrage of people stating how it measures horrible and that you should get the THX 789 etc etc. I got both now and honestly, they both sound great.

The answer to "Are you a god?", and "Should I post this?" - is always YES!

The science being distorted by manufacturers for the purpose of selling their products is the biggest problem and the thing I hate the most. There is one thing to understand that things *can* go wrong with digital transmissions and another to know what it would take for this to happen and what is the quality standard that makes it irrelevant. All standard USB cables are fine. Luckily you can test this yourself if you have a computer, but other subjects are not quite as accessible.

I hate it when reviewers piggy back off each other. Don't be afraid to have your opinions. Your viewers will thank you for it.

Audio Science Review is one of the most narrow minded forums ime

It’s about opinions and when you involve the music component into the equation, emotions can really get hyperactive. Thing is people like what a product does or does not do. If it makes them happy, all the better, but I don’t see the need for the toxicity that goes on as a result. I say find what makes you happy and run with it. That is what matters. It’s your taste and your gear. The only one who has to really like it is you. The rest is just noise on the line. Enjoy your music on your gear and escape into your own paradise.

High resolution audio is not a consumer format. The system only has certain bandwidth and most consumer systems, even very expensive ones can not reproduce the entire bandwidth. And the law says that when you exceed bandwidth you will introduce intermodulation distortion, unless the signal is filtered which it usually is just because of the way speakers work. But that part of the signal should never be amplified, so each system meant for high resolution audio should have a lopass filter in it... rendering the whole idea moot.

My ‘hi-fi’: Teac headphone amp DAC. Samson SR 850 headphones. which connects to: Audio Tecnica 120x turntable (with upgrade microline stylus). Sony bd470 blu ray player. My iPhone 8. Cables from Juicebitz. £653 in total over 15 months in 2018/19 The reason for buying this stuff was great reviews from hi-fi magazines and Amazon customers/Internet forum members all stating that these products ‘punch well above their weight’ especially the headphones. Don’t feel any need to upgrade. However I would class myself as an audiophile as these are all upgrades from very basic equipment and I was in pursuit of something better. My low level of patience means I wasn’t willing to save up for higher end gear, especially if the money I was willing to spend gave me a sound I was happy with which is the case.

I generally try to stay away from toxic audiophile forums myself. I see a lot of that going on everywhere, I guess it's become a cultural phenomenon to cancel something you don't like. Then like you said the ones who are canceled just go on to make their own platform. So trying to cancel other people or companies is pretty petty and useless.

You've rustled some jimmies man that means you're doing something right

I agree with you about the bad science in measurements and obsessions.

Very good points. I now come to visit those "toxic" reviewers every time I am buying new gears, then avoid anything they recommend, and take a good look at what they trash. Treat them like those "investment analysts" and you will get your money worth.

Good points you made, measurements can be manipulated and don't tell the whole story of how something sounds. The primary reason for being involved in this hobby should be enjoyment of music at whatever level you can afford. There is no right way to assemble a good sounding stereo or Home theater. Today there are some really good products that can be had for a reasonable price. But there is also a lot of good used gear that can save you a lot of money. Keep up the good work, thanks

One of the best videos I've seen for promoting our hobby. This should be required viewing for all newcomers.

Currawong, I'm not a patreon of yours, I am of course considering becoming one . But if I currently were, I have an interesting question for you, since you like to delve into science. I wonder how many audiophiles have what's called "chromesthesia" the ability to perceive color in sound. When I listen to certain songs, I can perceive colors within the music. I usually associate certain songs with specific colors. And for my next question, what do you think about a possible link between "HSPs" highly sensitive persons, and audiophiles. HSPs tend to have very sensitive hearing, I've noticed that when I let most regular people try my gear, they do react positively, but don't seem to really notice much else that's going on in the music that should now be more apparent from the higher end gear. Do certain people perhaps have a better ability to perceive detail in music. I think there was a term for it, "golden ear" I believe. I remember going to CamJam NYC and seeing how audiophiles really listen into what their listening to. I was at a booth trying a company's product and they had a set of sennheiser HD650s that I was trying out. I let a person next to me listen to a song from my DAP on them. I've never seen someone really listen to music like how an audiophile does. It's like their in another world really. That's also how I feel when I listen to my music. So are audiophiles perhaps a bit different from some or most others. And is this the reason why we have a higher appreciation for high end audio gear that allows us to get closer to our music. At the end of the day I guess we're all just a bit nerdy :).

Another point of frustration is that the price mostly is equivalent with quality. Most refuge the fact that there is day/ night difference where a company is actually producing it‘s gear. Is made in China worse because the people there working for little money? I don’t think so. Are prices justified because companies produce in the US, EU and or Japan? Not always I think because high prices are also a marketing tool, as these products gets the most attention.

You said that you have best measuring stuff that sounds bad and worse measuring stuff that sounds good. Which means that either you like the distortion that is added or it's all in your head. There is nothing wrong with enjoying some thd with your music if that makes it better. But its wrong to conveying the false notion the our ears are somehow magical and superior and measurement can't tell anything. I don't believe asr manipulated measurements purposefully. He also has good and bad measuring stuff from same manufacturer. I am not entirely dismissing the idea that he may have accidentally made some mistakes. Then again if you have proof of it ,then show it. Show the graphs and try to get some measurements that prove otherwise.

I love your comment about science and its oversimplification by news and media. I myself am a scientist and teacher with a doctorate in environmental science and see corrupt data in audio, media, politics, all the time. Real measurments and accurate interpretation of results needs peer review and scrutiny before being published. The audiophile community needs to become more scientific in their pursuit of data.

Enjoying your videos and honest approach, thank you.

Interesting topic. I'd like to hear more on your opinions about MQA. I'm no fanboy, but I've been using tidal, with its built in software decoder, for about 2 years now. At first it was a bit of a trial for me; I couldn't see myself spending £20/month indefinitely to listen to music, some of which I already owned. But now I'm hooked on tidal, probably for life, unless a better option comes along for CD quality streaming Most of the tracks they host sound better to my ear than the wav equivalent I have on my SSD, played through foobar. I use a mojo as my desktop dac/amp when listening with heaphones/iems. Are tidal adding the audio equivalent of monosodium glutamate (DSP) to the music? Or am I hearing higher quality music/better masters? I don't really care either way (good sounding music is good sounding music) but I would still be interested to know. I've read up a bit on how the MQA compression algorithm works, but I'm not a scientist so I only loosely understood. Some music I used to love sounds terrible on tidal though, such as The Freestylers - We Rock Hard album. But then other tracks I would expect to sound dated and bad actually sound better than I would expect, such as Eric Prydz - Pjanoo or Daft Punk - Homework album. Is it just a recording quality issue? I'm sure We Rock Hard used to sound great on CD. I've considered tweeting The Freestylers just to see if they know how bad their album sounds on tidal, but I don't want to seem like I'm stirring up shit.

well said, always love your reviews. keep em coming. I find comment sections across all web media can be fairly toxic.

Agree, and it is a very tough jungle for non audio hobbyists to navigate. Funny I got way down the rabbit hole when I first started and ended up with a ton of unused gear. It's very difficult when you jump headfirst, but then when you stop and ask the simple question *What do I want/use day to day* . I don't regret all the gear that gathers dust, may use it one day but WOW does it take some personal use to really know yourself and your own needs. Some of the cheapest stuff I have are my fantastic goto gear Hahahahaha. However now I wait a week or two after seeing a rave review to decide *Do I want that ? * Usually not when I ask *What for ?*..............

Here's another "thing:" How can a RU-vid audio gear reviewer, who is obviously over 70,, dare comment + or - on high rez files from a DAC yet cannnt hear beyond 10K? (Getting old sucks, I know but ...........)

If this video was made a year ago, then it's only become more relevant one year later. You're spot on in every respect. Head-Fi has really become an orgy of idiocy over the last year or so, sadly. One of the things I've noticed as part of the burgeoning toxicity in the audiophile world is an increased tendency toward "clickbait." You see it here on RU-vid both in the style of presentations and in the title of the videos themselves. They seem designed to provoke and attract viewers, and thus revenue. It's very depressing. In relation, one of things you don't mention is the almost total lack of independence in the majority of reviewers. They either work for shops, have gear sent to them, or have some kind of sponsorship deal. I can only think of perhaps one or two reviewers who buy their own gear to review. There are exceptions here and there, but most of the time it smells fishy. In any case, much appreciate you posting this and for your work more generally.

This was fantastic and the same argument needs to be applied to other hobbies as well.

This was a welcomed honest take on some of the things I have noticed at places like headfi and audioscience forum. By and large headfi is a terrifc cummiunity with a lots of great helpful people. It's supposed to be a nice resource for some of us potentially interested in a new amp, dac, headphone etc. Sometimes when i go researching on a piece and you get to reading page after page wondering if some folks have other agendas. You sometimes see some great respected gear sorta ripped on. So anymore I just use that as one of many things to consider for future purchases. Guessing your rant is at aipudioscience forum. I made the mistake of reading on gear I was interested in only to be ripped on. The if it don't measure good, it's not a good sounding or piece of gear. I have seen more than one reference to them using fancy expensive measuring equipment and misleading folks with those measurements. And this was brought up by folks that do this for a living....not a hobby. I say leave the measurements to the experts ! I have seen those toxic folks that only believe in what they want and can't be shown or proven otherwise. Some folks with very closed minded thinking. Opinions are fine in this subjective hobby but folks like this don't do our tiny nitch hobby any favours if we're trying to grow it. Can you imagine a newbie walking into something like this trying to learn something? It's easy to say and do this stuff from behind a smartphone. Makes you wonder if they care or even aware of the damage they do.

I've not been disappointed in how gear sounds in the last 5 years or so. Things have gotten so good you can spend minimal money and get really good sound. I've tried tons of stuff in the last year and really eveything sounded really good. There are some differences in tuning and of course power but the basic sound was excellent. So, I buy on features and what suits me most of the time. I don't worry about measurements, eveything these days measures very good. Best thing is to try stuff for yourself, if YOU like how its soubds - that's all that matters.

Great sentiments made. At the end of the day, its all about mainly unqualified opinion. I have seen some so called audiophiles, think that they have so much influence over the industry. Even though, I am unable to afford some hi end gear. I still love to see what is possible out there. There seems to be a lot of toxic jealousy in the audiophile word. Which is utter nonsense.

I think you’re right on all counts, especially on “If it sounds good to you, that’s all that matters.” I like your down-to-earth style and how you point out that measurements aren’t everything. (Otherwise, tube amps and records would be gone)

Shots fired! ASR I Love my Atom Stack tho

I don't see myself using a lossy format like MQA when I can have the flac files offline. Storage is getting cheaper and cheaper.

ASR will be on fire for a month after this video lol

You gain respect and new sub from here! Thanks for litting this "taboo" to the light!

Thank you for posting this.

4:30, I wonder who he is talking about.

Great vid again. ☺ We were talking about this vid on Darkos patreon.

My 5 Things I don't Like About The Audiophile Community: - often absolute lack of humor - - self importance of own opinions, aka toxic assholes - sponsored influencers, who call themselves reviewers and literally advertise products of companies they get money from - fanboys of certain brands: go to head-fi and try to ask for alternatives in a thread of a certain brand, you literally get bashed by fanboys - often absolute lack of humor (I got banned from head-fi for a comment I made about one thing I dont like about audiophiles :-): "I love these threads : Audiophile One: my favorite colour is blue Audiophile Two: no its not, red is nicer Audiophile Three: guys chill Me: Makes a Meme about it Mods: Delete my post, because its not subject related"

Hello, I followed your advice on westone earbuds and I bought the W40 ( less expensive ones) and I love them. They are exactly what I was looking for: under $200, very thin extremity that goes right were is is needed and a pretty thick noise canceling eartips that are perfect to ride, away from the loud roar of my motor cycle. They provide a rich bass and treble sound. Not a 3D sound but it was not what I was looking for for this purpose . You made my day master headphones. Thank you VERY much.

This is a Internet Societal issue to me -- too many poison pills out there.

It's exactly for these and other reasons that I left the Cyrus audio group on Facebook. I've never had discussions with such a biased and blinkered group of people. They openly hate on anything not made by Cyrus and PMC. Whereas I have a real assortment of gear. As I own three different systems in total. So I appreciate the differences in sound signature of various manufacturers equipment. Also that nobody's gear is better than someone else's. It's all about what you are looking for in the sound and what you prefer. Also that price is absolutely no guarantee of better sounding equipment. It's better to just ignore everything and everyone else and go and listen to the equipment for yourself. 👍

In general I agree with everything you’ve said in this video! Very respectable reviewer and you present information to the best of your ability which I do appreciate and admire. I will say that I see your point of view on NWAVGUY and I am mentally wrestling with the statement about -95db distortion and stuff. Just a small anecdote: I own the ODAC (both Rev. A & B) and an EL DAC and think they all sound pretty darn good, but at the same time I own an Yggdrasil Analog 2 and, in some aspects of music, I vastly prefer the Yggy 2. There are times when I wished the Yggy 2 sounded more ‘clean’ and less fatiguing like the EL DAC. Interestingly I find that ODAC is clean, but has similar fatiguing qualities to the Yggy 2 during prolonged listening sessions to which I can only attribute to (perhaps) distortion? I’m not a professional in audio or anything but I have tried digging around as to what could be causing this and thus far I have concluded it to being higher levels of harmonic distortions (specifically around -60 to -80db Even and Odd order harmonics). I’m not entirely sure though and perhaps someone could help give some further insight on this. I know -60 to -80 dB is VERY quiet (barely audible, if at all) but I can’t seem to find anything else that could be the cause.

I have seen all the drama over the years at Head-fi. Never took part in it, never took sides. Maybe I am too grounded or I just don't give a fuck. I know what I like and what I don't like and it doesn't bother me when people disagree with me. Most things in life are subjective anyways, and the things that are not very seldom reach an importance level, most certainly not at Head-fi, for me to commit in verbal wars to proof I'm right and others are wrong. It's a fucking hobby, for crying out loud, it is not like you're trying to proof your innocence of a crime.

Freakin Spot On! Educate and Experience the Actual Joy of Listening to Music... I Totally Focus on being a Genuine Resource for those that want to stay passionate and just have Fun while Listening to Music and Not GEAR.👍🏾💯

Very well said, and illuminating. Thank you very much.

My 5 things which make me laugh about audiophilia 1) When you see folks on headphones forums having 20,000+ posts written... its clear people have gadget fetish. In most cases its ego and love for things not for MUSIC ;) 2) The science of acoustics is often totally lost. For example, the acoustic engineer Tomasz Rogala who also makes his omnidir. speakers does not even bother to advertise and cannot cope with demand, he says audio magazines are simply BS. Audio dealers are mostly full of crap, which is natural. Like medical doctors, all they care is $ALES and money not the quality of the thing they sell or how to match the customer with the product. 3) $100k speakers or $20k DACs dont enrage me:) But $2k antivibration sets, when you can DIY a similar one for $5 to $50... 4) Marketing and ideologies over FUN and science. But thats in every field now..... 5) Audio gear should absolutely reproduce as wide freq. spectrum as possible and transmit it to your listening space evenly across frequencies - this last requirement is very often NOT MET.

Sounds like the super best audio friends forum LoL.

Measurements have their place but there are two (or three) problems. Firstly, manipulating the test conditions to make sure not to reveal the products weaknesses - e.g. testing a speaker or headphone at a low level, to lower the measured distortion. Secondly, presenting the measurement data in a way that makes it appear to be more ideal - e.g presenting a frequency response graph with a 100dB vertical axis instead of 40dB, or providing an excessive amount of smoothing to the plot, so it looks ruler flat and peaks and dips in the response can barely be seen. This is why measurements provided by the manufacturer of the product need to be taken with a huge grain of salt, especially if the test conditions are not well defined. Measurements are best conducted by a third party who has no vested interest in any of the products measured, and with a consistent test method. I and others have done this for speaker drivers, as it allows measurement data for many speakers to be directly compared. If two testers have data for a few of the same speakers, you can get an idea of how the test data relates and start making loose comparisons across multiple databases of measurements. An example of this in the headphone world are the measurements at InnerFidelity, Rtings and RAA. The final problem is that most users aren't sufficiently trained to interpret the data. Only a person who has looked at a lot of test data will be able to tell straight away if the data was gathered appropriately and if a product looks to be overall poor or exceptional based on a quick glance at the data, given that all speakers and headphones have deficiencies and design trade-offs and it is about judging which deficiencies will be audible and which can be discounted.

Well said Currawong. Especially at 7:49. There are way too many dogmatic proclamations based on cliches about good and bad thinking. An open mind (open ears?) has always served me well. This goes all the way back to Julian Hirsch insisting that all amplifiers with decent performance will sound the same.

Great points. I love listening to this man.

Thank you ! It's very important to understand where is advertising in audio field and what is in reality!

On the same boat here. Getting bored with some forums and reviews (actually not even missing watching some of them), because of the defenders and attackers of "this file format v. streaming", "why buy multi thousand $ gear to use with streaming", "this product is the best of the world, the other are sht."(but some times, when asked if they even have or tried the product, they never did, is just about graphs and others impressions). What is important is have fun on different ways, try by oneself and find the flaws and goods of different products, what I like, what makes my songs and experience better.

Basically I watch reviews to get an opinion or idea about a product how well its made and quality of components used and general opinion on the sound quality and so forth. Generally once I find a brand of products that I am happy with I usually stick with their products. Make a quality well made product that is priced reasonably, offer good customer service and sounds good to me for what I am looking for then I tend to not make many changes as far as brand. I really could care less what someone else thinks about my choices and I find using this criteria for my buying I guess I could be missing out on some better gear but as long as what I am choosing is checking all the boxes for my desires for me am I really missing out on anything? I am happy so that is what matters. I pretty much use the same approach to audio electronics, headphones, speakers connection cables and any thing audio related. I have some budget/value set ups and some that for me I consider end game components. As long as these mid 60"s ears are happy and what I use puts a smile on my face who cares. I feel sorry for those that never seem to find what is their comfortable sweet spot to really enjoy what they have and always seem to desire something they never seem to find. What reviewers I pay attention to are those that are able to not seem to be for or against a certain brand for reasons other than substantiated shortfalls or positive attributes within the product they are reviewing at the time. Play fanboy and that reviewer will not in my opinion give a fair and accurate review whether for or against the product and not worth my time to watch.

Good discussion.. I'm quite new in the audiophile community - both online & real world.. Even though this was my interest or pastime some 30+ years back... Thank you for the advice...

Amos. You are my kind of people. You’re bright , intelligent and a nice gentleman who speaks the truth. I could talk audio with you all day. Thank you for your amazing channel.

Audiophile has become steadily a bad word since the late 80's. It connotes an insufferable snob that considers his opinion the same as fact. Has no grasp of value, or humility. Considers more expensive= always better and lords his toys over anyone owning less costly gear. Places gear above music. Decries the science of measurement and blind testing. Is quick to tell others how inferior their setup is, even though he's never heard any of it. They blast anyone who doesn't worship the same gear to the same level as he does. The 1st thing they say? "You are angry and don't like it because you cannot afford it." No, try again. I don't like it because it's got it's own sonic opinion that I don't like. (Doesn't matter how someone quantifies and qualifies it) "Everyone has different ears" which really means, the audiophile considers his hearing/listening ability superior. Despite having no electronics background, the audiophile is a self=appointed electronics/acoustics expert because they read the manufacturers claims and a few high end audio magazines. Yes, I have seen them argue with both AES/EE engineers and product designers. It was like watching a 12- year old argue with a Doctor.

For the most part, I attempt to avoid the very type of forum members and reviewers fitting your descriptions. I loathe some of the advice I've received from the toxic types. I enjoy those who, like you, attempt to provide a more relative comparison to other products and allow the individual to make a choice which suits their needs as everyone's needs (and ears) are different. I respect those who may have their personal preference but understand why another may chose differently.

Well said.

I think as a bit of a rant, I can see your objective look into the community as a whole being very valid and a good thing. But what I'd really like to see, is for this to delve into something beyond only the community and it's quirks, into hopefully something purely informational. If anybody's going to take a neutral stab and still be able to discern some very complex differences, I'd think many people in your audience would appreciate it if 'you' took the time to start to break these kinds of things down more thoroughly, in the future. Not as an objective look into everything as a whole, but as videos that will hopefully be outlining things that maybe weren't all commonly understood by people, in general. An objective look into things as a whole, is great and all, but I'd really like for there to be an informational solution to things that may stand as a positive reference for anyone wanting to know more than they did, at the start.

Very recognizable. Especially number 3. Good list 👍