I agree with you. One handed bowling won’t be irrelevant… at least not yet. So long as the weight of the pins doesn’t change and the goal is to knock all 10 down, 1 handers will be able to compete. Oil patterns that favor more shotmaking could help as well. We just had a PBA final (Illinois open I believe) where all of the finalists were 1 handed. Simo and Belmo were knocked out before TV.
Brunswick GS-NXT Free Fall Pinsetter has been released since 2022, its not gonna be irrelevant unless if Americans become lazier and don't want to work as a mechanic. If Free Fall Pinsetters aren't selling well in the US, move its manufacturing process to other countries such as South Korea, Japan and Philippines.
I would disagree on one handers becoming irrelevant. On the leagues that I bowl in, ALL of the top bowlers (Highest average) are one handed. There are lots of Belmo wannabes but facts are facts.
I don't think I'll be able to bowl 2 handed into my 60s or 70s but up until then I think I'll probably be fine. So long as you know your limits and don't repetitively injure yourself, it's not going to be an issue. I guess it also depends on how massive your spine tilt is as a 2 hander. Some people may me more susceptible than others to injury because they're getting parallel or farther with the floor
One handed vs two handed bowling is a lot like tennis one handed vs two handed backhand. Neither will be obsolete because both have their advantages and disadvantages. It just comes down to preferences.
While the disc golf purses are about the same as the PBA right now, the players get pretty good contracts from their sponsors. Paul Mcbeth got a 10 year, 10 million dollar contract from Discraft.
I guess only time will tell the full story, when I watch some two handers that get really low to the line with massive spine tilt, I wonder how long their backs will last.
One handers will never become irrelevant. Plenty of them out there they can put more Revs on the ball then some of the 2 handers out there. I’m old school and growing up 3 fingers were always used. Never knew 2 were allowed until I saw Mike Miller on TV.
I only use index an middle fingers, no thumb, Lefty, with a reverse spin Fractured right hand when I was 10.. still write with my right hand but everything switched to my Left
For real all these naive people thinking they get revs because 2 hands. It has nothing to do with 2 hands and everything to do with not putting your thumb in the ball. Which I know many people who throw that way still. 1 handed.
When I was a kid we would bowl 2 handed thumbless as a joke. In juniors they told us we couldn't do it because we're touching it with the opposite hand.... It was illegal. That was 25 years before the usbc voted to have Belmo in tournaments. Oh well, I guess im irrelevant. 🤷
I do not agree about the one hand topic. Two handed bowlering is just another way to throw the ball, all be it better right now. I am curious on the long term affects on the body. I also feel there is room amongst the two handers for one-handed bowlers who are accurate and good at ball manipulation like O Neil for example
Two handed bowlers are going to have a tough time when they get to be my age. You don't see many (if any) older two handed bowlers, for a good reason, we're not as flexible as we once were.
#5 Static Weights: In a coreless ball with only a pancake weight and the new 3 oz rule, static weights matter a lot and can be made to do some amazing things. #4 Fixed Soles: I don't slide so interchangeables are of zero interest to me. #1 One Handed Bowling: When one handed bowling becomes irrelevant then Bowling will become irrelevant.
Split into two separate leagues then at the end of the season have the one hand champion go against the two hand champion in the Super Bowl of bowling.
@@daspeakeasies It needs to be more like golf. Who would watch golf if it was just 5 people playing the last 5 holes? It needs to be more like the commentary done on the BowlTV casts showing every lane the whole time, but mainstream media isn't willing to open up a time slot long enough to accommodate that. Too many other sports bring in more money and viewership apparently.
I was a PBA Member way back when. Bowled in the Eastern Region 1985-87 and Southern Region in the mid 1990's. Made the finals a few times, but never a title. Last league season I bowled was 2000-2001. When league lane conditions got so easy that most nights became a 'carry contest' I walked away and never looked back. What the sport has become I don't even recognize. What I wouldn't give for a return to the conditions of the late 1960's/early 1970's when your choice was Rubber or Plastic and success on the lanes was more a function of 'finesse' than how many revolutions you can put on the ball and how many boards you can cover.
“Cigarette ashes” 😂. Bruh, putting on the bottom of your shoe so you can slide better is crazy. But back in the day, I mean yeah. I can see it. And I’m a smoker 🤦♂️. I know I need to quit.
@@playdiscgolf1546exactly I still saw some players sprinkled baby powder on the approach only a few years back! I would have stopped bowling or even quitting the centre if the manager didn’t do anything about it.
As a 50 yr old, I switched to two hands 2 months ago. It’s still a work in progress but one thing I can definitely say is I’m having a lot more fun now.
People thought the same thing about skiers when snowboarders came on the scene. I think one handed is here to stay because a lot of people can't throw two handed and or not very consistent.
Weaker Bowlers will all gravitate quickly to both hands with a mindset that they cannot bowl well one-handed. There's bowlers and there's throwers. The mission is pinfall at any costs, physical or cultural, and the USBC is another all-inclusive org bordering on WOKE.
There are still one handed bowlers out there throwing with more revs and speed then some two handers in tour. If you ask me, the two handers took the easy road. EJ Tackett is just one example. It takes more skill and talent to throw a ball the way he does.
I agree. Just because you throw 1 handed doesn't mean you can't get rev rate. I am 61 years old. Only started bowling less than 2 yrs ago. I have a higher rev rate than many of the 2 handers at our bowling center and I'm not the highest rev rate guy there either. One of the guys I play against in league has an EJ Tackett type rev rate (perhaps even higher) and throws the ball about 22mph or more. I still throw my ball around 16-19 with about a 380-400rpm rev rate. If anything I sometimes have too much rev rate (uncontrollable at times). In my leagues (3 per week), I would say there is only about a 20% rate of 2 handers and I know a lot of guys that throw faster with higher rev rate than most of the 2 handers. I think it is a matter that it is easier to get good rev rate with 2 hand bowling, initially, but, a good 1 hander can generate just as much rev rate and is easier (less effort) to get a higher ball speed as a whole. All of the fastest ball speed players at my bowling center are 1 handers. Yes, some 2 handers can throw pretty fast too, but not like the 1 handers. 1 handers have a much larger swing arch, and if you know anything about golf it show that the wider and larger your swing arch is, the higher clubhead speed you can generate. The same is true for bowling.
Keep up the good work, in 5 or 10 years or so, you might get your revs up to Darja Pajek's level of revs. She is where Sean Rash is, a bit over 400 but nowhere near where EJ's is. @@squidly2112
more then one. you need to pay attention to the specto data displayed in the upper right hand corner your TV during the telecast. McCune and others.@@machinethesun9243
I just looked thru the PBA elite team lineups... regarding two-handed bowlers, there are 48 total bowlers (8 teams, 6 members each) - and there are 11 two handed bowlers. So not yet with one-handers being irrelevant.
I think it’s an easier process to get to a 175 avg as a 2 hander, but to maintain a 200+ avg requires a lot more skill than just simply throwing the ball with 2 hands and that’s for your average league house shot.
I've had the same $50 bowling shoes for over 10 years of bowling and never had a issue. When people are sticking, everything's normal for me. When people are sliding too much, it's still normal for me. Don't know how dexter got these shoes to do that, but it's awesome
You must mostly bowl at one house. Our house is sticky and never gets cleaned so everyone has max slides on. Bowl 15 minutes away, and you'll fall on your ass with those slides and crack your head open.
1 handers? Nah I dont think so. Ive talked about injury to knees, to my young 2handed teammate. I wonder how well his knee (left) will hold out 20,30 yrs from now? Every so often, he goes to slide and plants hard, then mentions his knee is sore all night. I believe 2handers put more weight/stress on their sliding foot (knee) due to NOT having use of the off-arm to help balance themselves and take off some weight/stress on their knee. I tried 2handed throws afew times last week during practice and I noticed my knee was very sore immediately! Anyone else have some first hand insight or experience with this?
I haven't seen a ball with a particle coverstock since like 2007. They shouldn't have been relevant even when they WERE. In 2005 my Ultimate Inferno moved just as much as my XXXCel. Then The One and the Black Widow came out and poof no more particle.
I disagree about the extinctions of 1H bowlers. At the tip top level of PBA and elite events, sure, 2H will be more prevalent. But it lower rung tournaments where big power players don't dwell, 1H will still exist and do fine.
All kinds of sad feelings about this one. I bowl one handed and I lift. Got the grips and pitches changed so lifting is starting to become extinct in my game, but I still find a use for it on sport shots. Not sure I'll ever go to 2 handed, but never say never.
One handed bowlers will never really become irrelevant, mostly because 2 handed is a young persons game. It becomes less easy to do as you get less flexible. Now will one handed become a thing of the past for young players and people on tour? Maybe. It still works despite 2 handed seemingly having better 'luck factor'.
Most ammature 2 handers cant pick up corner spares more than 50%, even some mid spares are hard when you're throwing it that hard and fast. Maybe the pros can do it , but ammateurs are having a hard time
We have a lot of younger guys at our bowling center throwing 2 handed, but the best players are still 1 handed, especially in the older groups. As with everything, there are some advantages and disadvantages of each. I don't believe overall that 2 handed necessarily out weighs 1 handed in the advantages. And, as the 2 handers get older, they are going to find it increasingly difficult to maintain. Show me a 70 year old 2 hander. Doubt there are very many, if any.
I'd swap one handed with sliding on this. More and more evidence coming out that sliding (if you do it WRONG) does just as much if not MORE damage to your knee than planting does. If you slide any longer than a couple inches your knee will NOT like you.
According to USBC measurements, side has a bigger effect on ball motion than intermediant differetial which was all the rage a couple of years ago. Surface and pin to pap are certaintly the big ones. Vinyl slugs dont drag as much urethanes. Been at this over 40 years and drilled way over 10000 balls for people. Things change, adapt.
The youngster just rolling the ball with two hands will not progress to one hand due to the fact he\she is growing up with Bellmo. I believe your assumption is correct.
One handed bowling will never be irrelevant, a more accurate thing to say is young competitive bowlers learning anything but a high rev release is likely on its way out. 2 handed is the short cut to get there hence its popularity, but one handed can out rev 2 so it’s not the only path. The hyper focus on rev rate is unfortunate IMO because it’s taken a lot of art and diversity out of the game. It’s also frankly not necessary. There are obviously benefits to having a higher rev rate but look at Bill O Neil this year leading and winning tournaments outplaying the highest rev guys, or Norm Duke in his LATE 50’s like 18 months ago leading the entire Masters field getting the #1 seed and only missing the title by 3 pins. You can absolutely compete with moderate rev rate, you just have to be a really good bowler.
Absolutely agree that it seems a faster way to look fancy by doing it 2 handed especially the youngsters these days have less patience in general than we used to.
Two handed wouldn't be legal if bowling wasn't suffering such a shortage of young bowlers, video games have killed live competition. PBA is hoping by allowing the use of 2 hands will save the sport, it turns a novice bowler into a potential pro. I consider it a handicap.
I've thought about the thumb vs no thumb topic quite a bit and the conclusion I've come to is no thumb is the superior choice for the vast, VAST majority of people. Let's put aside the rev rate advantage for a moment and just discuss the issues with the thumb. Specifically - the fit, the fit, and the fit. If you do not have access to an experienced pro shop operator who works with you to get your fit (size, pitches, span, etc) JUST RIGHT, you have no chance competing against the 'good' players. And to get things 'just right' with the fit, you are talking about experimenting, potentially for YEARS, tinkering with the damn fit. You don't want to spend your time fighting the fit and the thumb, you want to spend your time trying to improve your physical bowling game. Ever try shooting 220 with a thumb hole you can't consistently get out of? Or how about one where the ball falls off your hand because the thumb is too loose? Does your thumb swell and shrink based on dietary factors or weather? Is the span too long or too short? Have you developed calcification on the thumb? Perhaps some blisters or calluses? These issues can quite literally take years to get corrected, if ever. Why would you deal with that when you can simply bypass all those annoyances? Keep in mind these grievances have NOTHING to do with your ability to actually bowl, yet greatly impact your scoring ability. For the kids coming up, it is a no brainer to go thumbless. If Chris Barnes and Parker Bohn have their kids going thumbless, what does that tell you? If Walter Ray is tinkering with developing a 2 hand game at 60+ years of age, what does that say? Just like taking the lanes out of play with throwing plastic at spares, it stands to reason you would want to take the probability of a bad fit out of your game. You don't want another variable in the mix that is out of your control.
I frequently have thumb release issues, I have multiple interchangeable thumbs of slightly different sizes to deal with that. I’d love to be able to eliminate that issue altogether, but I’m 67, not the most athletic guy, and I just don’t think 2 handed is a possibility. My ball speed 1 handed is already on the slow side, 2 handed with more revs and shorter swing would make that much worse.
@@dfo132 i hear you. the older you get, the more difficult making the change will be for sure. my initial recommendation is definitely geared towards the kids / people just getting started. That said, you might be surprised at what you are able to accomplish. Taking the summer off and going to practice a 2 hand technique, say June - August a couple times a week might give you an idea if it is feasible for you before fall league starts back up in September. If you have slower ball speed, throwing plastic up 10 or urethane from 3rd arrow, 2 handed might be an option on a house shot. I think the bigger issue comes down to can you learn to repeat shots using this technique. In my experience, while the rev rate goes up, I find it more difficult to repeat shots. I'm still working on my conversion process to 2 hands. But I enjoy working on that a lot more than fighting my fit.
It’s crazy, nobody ever talks about the fact that over the course of a tournament, how much your thumb and hand takes a beating. That’s a huge advantage for no thumbers. The only thing people talk about are rev rates.
@@playdiscgolf1546 Agreed. Let's say over a 9 game block, you fail to get out of the ball cleanly on 4 shots due to swelling, weather, diet, whatever... Those 4 shots could be the difference between making the cut and moving on vs going home. It's a non-trivial edge for the 2 handers / no thumbers.
I'm resisting it, but yes: thumbs are becoming irrelevant. And when the no-thumb crowd dominates, what of coverstocks: can they stay as strong as can be made now? Will we see balls offered in 1/2 pound increments as more struggle to fine tune some advantage in the 500+ rev rate club? And...is it all too technical now? Bowling was the everymans sport - holding on to that seems to be a challenge going forward. I observe this: throwing no thumb is somehow more intuitive with release timing - it might actually be the easier place to start for beginners? We might be headed to thumb/no-thumb events not as a separation, but maybe make pros work both styles? That would be interesting like a cup series: gotta run different tracks to be champion.
2 hand may be dead in the future. Like bending the wrist like. Craker do, the side motion for 2 is bad for the back. It may come a point that rev rate most be controlled. I cant count how times plsyes got surgery and they all was rev monsters.
One-handed bowlers irrelevant? Ouch. Tough pill to swallow. That's one of the main reasons why I stopped bowling a couple of years ago and do not intend to get back to competition full-time. Reduced buying equipment as much as well. Bowl only occasionally, if I get called by my folks, we might throw a couple of games here and there, but never again full-time bowling. I don't see a good future with only 2-handers as putting your thumb and adjusting your rotation is a piece of art to me. The versatility of various bowlers throughout the years had inspired me. No 2-hander will ever inspire me. None of them has for the last decade, despite their success rate. And this is not just because of pure stubborness and unwillingness on my part to adjust to two-handed bowling. I don't like it, don't like the concept (although much more efficient biomechanics) of outcompeting via rev rates and margins of error disregarding accuracy. Disregarding the art of making your spare when you can string 8-9-10-baggers and missing one doesn't bite as much as it used to. Don't like that our sport has had its integrity completely destroyed throughout the years. And has been governed so poorly it cannot provide jobs outside of the US unless you're filthy rich and can afford to spend thousands of $ just like that. The stroker used to matter. Used to be a winner. Now he's not only a loser, he's like an extinct fossil. Saddens me to see it, don't accept it. Steve Jaros, Tim Criss, Brian Voss and others, players I've looked up to in the late 00s are gone forever. And unfortunately, EJ Tackett and Marshall Kent alone won't be able to save the sport from its ultimate demise. Pains and saddens me to say it.
Hooking the ball with one hand is irrelevant hard to generate 600rpms with one hand…also typically can 2 handlers can generate a better rolling back up ball…..throwing it straight and fast at spares with one hand is better…hard to throw it 24mph with 2 hands when you need to bounce pins around on a split
There is 2 handed bowlers that don't throw over 500rpm each shots.... And there is 1 handed bowlers that throws over 510rpm each and every shots.. 1 handed wont become irrelevant, just harder... as it is being a righty..
Introducing my grandkids to bowling. Being a one hander means that's what I am teaching them. Grandson wants to go 2 handed. I told him after he got the basics and could bowl one handed he could add 2 handed if he wants. I said the difference is being a sniper vs throwing a hand grenade. Why not have both in the bag?
I tried that 2-handed method and honestly speaking, it definitely puts more rotations on the ball, but I don't feel comfortable to throw like that; especially when you got to go for your spare ball. Since USBC rules require you to register yourself as either or, and I just cracked 200 for the first time and it took 14 months to do so, that methodology can wait.
A few months ago I tried two handed technique. I immediately noticed a MUCH higher rev rate and increased pocket delivery angles. I tried it mostly because one-handed I was putting way too much strain on the tendons in my fingers trying to get some rev out of a normal release. My fingers A2 tendons were screaming for days after bowling one handed. Unfortunately I made the mistake of turning to Reddit R/bowling for a little constructive input on my approach and release with two handed, and was immediately flamed by the self proclaimed experts about not just my form, but for my reasoning behind trying two handed. Claiming I'm doing it just because I think its fun to hook the lane instead of just a few boards. Even if that WAS the reason, am I somehow not allowed to try something new because its fun? I liked bowling two handed, but my form was abysmal, and I knew it. It had only been two days of trying it before I submitted a video. I hate the assholes on Reddit. I still ended up leaving the reddit group and with my tail between my legs, went back to hurting my fingers getting only occasional 200 plus scores.
1 handed not going anywhere. I have no problem w 2 handers, if I was younger (and skinnier) I'd go 2 handed but as couple others have said, lets see how some these 2 handers handle getting older. Gettin old is a b!tch, flexibilty/dexterity go out the window pretty quick. Sure there are those who do a better job staying in shape but I feel like some these 2 handers that stay w bowling long term may switch later in life.
Lots of comments about the longevity of two handers, right now we only have a small data set of two; Osku and Belmo. They seem to be doing fine right now, in fact better than some of their one handed peers.
I will be a one handed bowler until the day I throw my last ball. The PBA should be ashamed of allowing 2-handers and string pins. All I'm asking for is a seperate PBA tournament for one handers and two-handers, bowling two handed gives you an advantage. I just can't believe stepping away from bowling 2005 you didn't hardly ever see someone two handed. Now 19 years later getting back into competive bowling it is a disease that has plagued the sport. I can't believe the pro-shop asked me if I wanted just the fingers drilled. I started laughing and they were like no we are serious we rarely have any 3 finger bowlers any more. I was like wow. I really do jope the PBA makes two seperate tournaments based on the way you bowl.
@@Denali_Rebel The scores that I've seen lately in these PBA events are somewhat unnaturally high. Then you look at the majority of the field being either left handers or even worse left hand two handers. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like tgere are more 300s and 260-280 games in a sport pattern is mind blowing. I know these are top level bowlers but i really do feel like if you are two handed you either have a deficit on your over all score or give the two handers a handicap to even the field. You don't see this happening in any other sport, any other support would have seperate divisions. Jason Belmonte is the only two hander that I like.
not everyone can bowl 2 handed, so I guess there will be lots of bowling centers closing, that means no one buying bowling ball either. Maybe no holes in the ball would help balance things out
I disagree with 2 of these. 1 Static weights aren't irrelevant. Manufacturers would like you to think so though as all balls can't be made the same with the same static weights. He speaks of Side and finger and thumb weights but doesn't address what causes them to be a factor. Top weight. Having bowled for over 40 years I know that for me High top weights and various pin placements make a difference on how a ball rolls down the lane for me. 2. One handed bowlers. All you have to do is watch the PBA this week to see that this isn't necessarily true. Top seed was a 1 hander. 2nd seed was a 1 hander. 5th seed was a 1 hander. They aren't irrelevant. There is an increasing amount of 2 handers in the game. There have become more 2 handers that have made the strides to become dominant in the game. It seems that at the highest level of competition the 2 hander has an advantage. People always attribute that to revolutions. While revolutions on a bowling ball do give one an advantage the combination of skill to utilize them and knowledge to figure out the best way to go through the pins have caused those who are elite 2 handers to succeed. I agree that 2 handers are the way forward in elite competition but I disagree that this makes a 1 hander irrelevant.
I disagree with the changable shoe soles. Most bowlers only bowl in one, maybe two houses. Once they get used to their fixed sole shoes those are just fine for a majority of bowlers.
Totally disagree with one handed bowlers being irrelevant! Two handed bowling is irrelevant to me. I been bowling for 27 years and I will remain a one handed bowler!
Since one handed bowlers are irrelevant, we can just close down all our leagues and stay home to play video games. We won't even have to buy any of those Brunswick products any more.
These are the reasons people won't bowl any more no skill needed they need to go back to what was and Barr 2 handed bowling or separate the 2 handers and the real bowlers I was in the PBA years ago and wont go back to bowling unless they bring back static weights with limits
I think handicap is becoming irrelevant. Sandbagging is becoming so prevalent that it's hard to compete against the handicap and be a honest bowler. That's why I prefer scratch leagues and scratch tournaments.
Sure. If you average 220. You are aware that not everyone averages 220, right? How do they enjoy bowling? There are millions of people who bowl in social (but competitive) leagues. So no. Handicap is not becoming irrelevant.
My thoughts exactly, @@TonysMusic1974. I'd love to bowl scratch, if anything just to get away from the bellyaching over perceived sandbagging, but my average is so low that there's no way I'd be competitive.
