I had my 460V X-frame 460 S&W magnum five inch full lug muzzle brake equipped barrel revolvers cylinder altered by TK Custom to accept their stainless steel moon clips for the 45 ACP. As a bonus the 460 Rowland, 45 Super and 45 Winchester magnum using Starline brass can be held by the 45 ACP moon clips from TK Custom. A very versatile revolver. Even the 451 Detonics magnum and 450 SMC is held by the moon clip from TK Custom.
Actually I have a copy of the August 1988 Gun World article where the 45 Super debuted, Hodgden HS-6 powder was used and Grennell and Hindman actually pushed it all the way to 460 Rowland levels(40,000 psi) and achieved 1,500 fps with 185gr bullet. Once they got pressure measurements back from Hogdon they decided to back it down to 1,400 fps to keep the rounds at the same level of pressure of a 38 Super or 10mm at 37,500 psi. I believe 200 grain was 1,300 fps and 230 gr was 1,200 fps. The was the Original velocities set by Grennell and Hindman. Jack Lewis was also involved as well. While not a absolute requirement I do remember the firing pin was shortened and given a broader radius. A slide with a 9mm/38Super firing pin is ideal. It used a full length guide rod with 2 dual rate springs that I believe was 28 lbs combined. A commander ejector was used. The current velocities you mentioned were when the pressures were instituted by Triton ammunition it lowered it to a maximum 28,000 psi in comparison to the much higher pressures of 9mm,9mm +p and 38 Super of 36-37500 psi.I don’t think a integral ramped barrel is required but it couldn’t hurt either.
Great video, Sean. I think John Browning got his inspiration for the .45 acp cartridge from the .45 Mars Long, designed in 1899 for the Mars semi auto pistol. This rimless straight walled cartridge fired a 220 grain bullet at 1200 fps, which was HUGE power back in those days. It had a case length of 1.093” and the .45 Mars short cartridge had a case length of 0.660”. Anyway, I would like to include one more cartridge on your list. That would be the .50 GI. I know it's a stretch…literally, but Alex Zimmerman designed his round to work in the 1911 platform giving better “stopping power” with similar recoil, while using the same case head size as the .45 acp. It truly was an effort to make a better .45 acp by increasing diameter but keeping the 1911's original size. Because Guncrafter Industries keeps their .50 GI proprietary, it will fade into history as an interesting firearms footnote. The same fate that the Sony Betamax technology suffered. It's too bad really…it's a fine cartridge.
45 Super is the way to go for a decent, viable, and implementable step up from .45acp. For those who don't want the bulky platforms, the obsolete cartridges or guns, don't want to run crazy versions of a 9mm, maybe aren't interested in changing to a 10mm platform, don't find the .40 S&W enough of a departure from 9mm, the .45 Super is the way to go. Me? I like rimmed cartridges and revolvers and find the total lack of dependence on recoil springs, slide locks, detachable magazines, compensators, bullet nose designs, feed ramps, and supported chambers required to make all that stuff work makes life more simple. Revolvers run the most powerful handgun cartridges and most likely always will.
I like revolvers also. But my G30S is #1. KKM 4.5" threaded .578 x 28 DPM TRS 6lbs FPS/ 4.9lbs Trigger Pull 10, 17 round mags Assortment of compensators Runs 255gr 45super like it's made for it. I never had a jam.
Just shot my new FNX45 tactical with the Rowland conversion kit the other day for the first time and it is awesome, have put very few rounds through it so far but zero reliability issues, recoil lower than expected and laser beam accuracy so far.
Had a 460 Rowland conversion in my 1911, was a fun conversion and definitely a conversation starter. At the end of the day, wasn’t really into having the compensator at the end of the barrel…brass and ammo was expensive ….and just did not connect with that cartridge. The 1911 is still sprung for the 460, but now I shoot the 45 super if I need a little more power than the 45 acp +p. Now though, my 1911 is converted to the 40 Super and I love it! Probably stay in this configuration permanently…this cartridge speaks to me. Nothing wrong with the other cartridges in .45 calibers…Glad if I am feeing nostalgic….I can just convert back to the 45 acp….nice video.
This was a good video. One thing I want to mention is that the 460 Rowland is built around a heavy recoil spring and a compensated barrel using a fully support chamber. The chamber is reamed deeper to allow longer brass to prevent high pressure loads from being chambered into a standard 45 ACP. This got me thinking could a standard 45 ACP be made to handle Rowland pressures by copying the key components of the conversion, mainly the compensated barrel with a fully support chamber and a heavy recoil spring? The over all length of the 460 & 45 ACP are the same... So I purchased a Clark match & compensated barrel (fully supported chamber) and started testing heavy recoil springs. I purchased a wolf spring tuning kit which goes from about 14 to 24 pound springs and added a two piece guide rod with a shock buffer. This was about 8 years ago... I'm using a 24 pound spring but the 22 pounder works fine also. I purchased 45 super starline brass and started load development. I found my powder of choice to be Alliant Power Pistol but several others work nearly as well. I eventually started testing using standard 45ACP brass and was pleased to find that standard brass work perfectly well at 45 super level loads loaded to about 28KPSI (using quickload to calculate pressure/case fill/powder burn & velocity). I even found standard brass will hold up even using near Rowland level loads pushing 185 grn projectiles. I do lower pressures closer to 45 super levels if using projectiles heavier than 230 grains. The bottom line is if you reload, the 45 ACP can equal or exceed just about any other semiauto handgun on the market. Making 900 fpe using standard brass and a 185 grain projectile is solid Rowland territory. Here's a 45 super level load (700 fpe) VS a 40 grn & 75 Grn .223 on a damage assessment target. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bramz6Q4bOA.html Here's a 185 at Rowland level performance (1500 fps+ & 900 fpe+): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rzxbZ6uVaIQ.html Here's a solid (full house 23KPSI) 45+P load using Blue Dot powder and a cast 261 grn Lee bullet. chrono & group provided: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ar0yhdPLGBI.html
Thanks for this video! I thought it was very interesting to see some of the different attempts that were made. I never realized the 460 Rowland was such a good cartridge. I have a .454 Casull and enjoy shooting it, but I had always wondered what the edge of the envelope cartridge would be for a standard size 1911 in .45 cal.
Great vid.👍 I once had a Wildey, should have kept it. Wanted the LAR Grizzly, but never quite got it. Hate to see the .45 Winmag die, but we still have some good rounds coming up.
@@trespasserswill7052 that would be fun in a little M1 carbine.👍 I miss cheap M1 carbines. Even when surplus was affordable, there were contemporary versions. Back around 1975-6 I handloaded for a friend’s Universal Arms .30 carbine.
@@lanedexter6303 Sweet. You're the 1st handloader I've seen for .30 carbine. I've owned a few & love them. With alt loads if Critical Defense & 110 SP's you're pretty well set for PDW. A red dot helps.
@@lanedexter6303 Back in 1992 I wanted to convert mine to .45 Win Mag but got sidetracked (hurricanes, twins, life etc). A couple of years later the outfit doing the conversion was out of business. Allegedly due to ATF issues.
I have been interested in the 460 Roland for many years, since I first learned about them in John Taffin’s excellent book on Big Bore Handguns. Perhaps it’s time. Thanks for the video.
450 SMC seems to be the most optimal from a logistics ( both gun and ammo ) perspective. The 460 Rowland is exotic and in most cases requires a compensator to prevent a catastrophe failure. While a plus p rated 45 ACP with the correct recoil spring could handle 450 SMC . So even though the 460 Rowland is much more powerful from an overall perspective I think the 450 SMC is the better choice . You get near 44 magnum power and you could use it in almost any well built 45 ACP with just a recoil spring swap . Overall I think the 45 ACP wins this .
I have seen the 450 SMC being shot out of a Glock 30 no recoil spring just stock gun with no issues. I think the reason being because of the reinforced casing the 450 SMC has.
A 250 doing 1400 fps from a Tommy Gun? I see why they didn't adopt it. The Thompson already has some serious muzzle rise with plain old .45 ACP. It would be a hell of a thing to control in full auto with that much more recoil. As far as #1, I gotta agree that the .460 Rowland really got it right. It truly plays in the same ballpark as the .44 Mag without requiring a pistol only fit for Sasquatch hands. I'll stick to revolvers for rounds that hot though. Nothing against autoloaders, but if I'm going to shoot a round with expensive brass, I'd rather the gun didn't spit 3 or 4 of every 50 pieces of that brass into the shadow realm.
460R has low recoil. It will dribble the cases at your feet. One thing about it is that it can chew up mags at the feed lips or jam in the chamber. The extra 1/16" can be finicky on some guns. If you handload it's better to use 45super cases and you won't need another barrel unless it's a polygonal like Glock or HK. Factory 45super is safe in those barrels though, 28000psi is nowhere near max. But if reloading at all, running lead, or loading past 35000psi a fully supported chamber is needed as well as standard rifling. Also, 45super ammo from Underwood is not expensive. I'm sure Starline prices are about the same as 460R and 45acp. I stock up when Underwood has sales. I have every kind of 45super loading saved even the ones they don't have anymore. I also have several hundred once fired 45super brass. I got all that ammo for almost as low as 45acp target ammo.
I was stationed in Alaska when the 45 super was a thing. One of my friends had a grizzly bears bring a huge knife to a gun fight. While it made for a great story over beers. It was short and fast. I was within ear shot of the ok corral. Pretty sure he didn't poop for a week. The downside of the the cartridge is it would chew up 1911 frames after like 30k rounds. And old timers didn't like that. Now days nobody cares or shoots that much. I guess
Smith & Wesson says you can't....but I've shot.45 super from 2 different model 625's for years with no issues whatsoever. I actually bought the second one to convert to .460 Rowland just for the hell of it but several gunsmiths declined the job for liability reasons.
I want to see a 45 win mag with 185gr critical defense and see its fps. if a 230 can be cranked up to 1600 what would this 185gr do? it would be in rifle power category
@@benmadderom2281 Depends on how you look at it. Glock thought a smaller 9mm framed pistol that cops would love, chambered in .45 caliber would outdo a 9mm or .40 S&W from the same gun and everyone would jump on board. In a sense, it would outdo the .45 ACP market by having a practical .45 caliber pistol that everyone could shoot well.
I run 45super in a Glock 30S with a KKM barrel and an adjustable triple recoil spring. Dont really need a comp for 45super, but I have a few different comps for different loads. It can handle loads up to 460R levels and is very easy to control. Light slides and light recoil springs are the way to go with compensators. 460R is rad, but Underwood 45super is really good enough. The 255gr HC at 1050fps will make a charging polar bear retreat if it doesn't immediately kill it. 450SMC is also a good round but requires a 6" barrel because the powder burns slow. Underwood is much less expensive and 45super can share load data with 45acp and 460R. I use 10 round and 17 round mags. I can also use 30 round mags with 135gr 45super and they run great. The Glock 30S is hands down the best and most powerful conceal carry handgun running 135gr 45super Xtreme Defenders at 1500fps, they dont need a comp.
Yo, what is this about VP Harris? Your video was informative, except for that one comment. So I giving you a thumbs down. She is OK, what has she done?
Or....you can find .45 ACP or .45 ACP+P in about any Sporting Goods store and that's why the others failed. You can't make up for crummy shot-placement and more noise and $'s/round won't make you a good shot.
