one of the reasons why like your analysis so much and I consider you an absolute authority about ski technique is that your are absolutely not dogmatic about what and how skiing technique should be! When i first saw this clip a couple weeks, man did that made me crave for snow; so much fun to see this guy rip the groomers. cheers!
Remember when he was getting beat by 2 seconds at the hands of Ted Ligity and would be so knackered he could hardly breath during the podium interviews? The magic of the weight room!
How refreshing to hear a ski instructor being objective and responding to the skier they are watching and not just delivering the cliche. If Ski Instructors spend 30 years saying "Get forward" to anyone and everyone without even watching the skier, then we end up exactly in the situation i find myself in when giving level 3 courses/exams.... Experienced skiers often have locked ankles, skiers are resting on the tongue of the boot, as a result we see downsteming, we see skid break short turns. It creates excess vertical movements, this limits lateral deflection and makes speed and arcs difficult... etc etc.... I say follow this guys example and watch the individual and don't have preconceived ideas! nice video Reilly. Using video of the best in the world is the best way to make your point!
Here is my take; sure” Marcel Hirscher" can do this but most skiers will have a hard time getting away with what he is doing. First, he free skis kind of (somewhat) like he is racing. Racers use the rebound from the ski to accelerate them into the next turn, this comes off the back of the ski primarily (end of turn), the more you can energize the ski in this area the better, he is still projecting his body into the apex of the new turn and if you just adjust the center of force back to where he wants it, he is still centered. He comes off the ground between turns because he gets so much rebound out of the ski and its fun, in races he keeps it more in snow contact, just like his hand position at his side, he does not do this in races much at all (his hands are out front), he is freeskiing and his balance is so good he can get away with it. Same with his banking (inside ski pressure) and when his hand touches the snow thing, in freeskiing he can get away from being more over the outside ski, I don’t think this occurs very often in a race throughout the turn as shown here. One more comment, the trick is to master "projection" moving your center of mass into the apex of the new turn while letting your skis cross underneath you and completing the previous turn simultaneously. I think there are a few things to keep in mind, caveats I would add; one Hirscher is an animal, it is very exhausting to ski like him, takes a lot more muscular strength to hold back "G" forces from this aft pressure build-up position. Better for a long ski day to keep more stacked, forward. Also, sometimes in GS races racers will let a hand get back then drive it into the next turn for added speed. There are often exceptions to rules but sometimes you need to be Hirscher to ski like him and break the rules but it certainly doesn’t invalidate them for the rest of us. I would also add, for most people rounder turns are more graceful and less stressful than pure race techniques. Second, just because he can skip some fundamentals in his freeskiing does not give us an excuse to get sloppy with ours. He has fully mastered the fundamentals first!
True all that you said. Plus if he is on race skis in this video, which is likely, they cannot be bought by anyone and they are designed for one thing. It is possible to ski them somewhat normally but they are a handful if they are in race tune. Also within the race dept the very best skis go to the very best racers, so he is skiing on the very best available doing what he does that virtually no one else on the planet can do. I cannot really criticize that.
@@wilkiegj if they are in fact FIS race skis he’d be handicapped by artificial geometry requirements that would make extreme edge angulation harder. Many of these broken rules are being regularly employed in the race course and be handled competently
Spot on the aft tail pressure / rebound kick was all the rage in the '90's SL technique pre-carving skis. Hirscher is doing exactly this, but updated for the modern era.
@@busterkirkwood Yes, this video is just Marcel having fun and chilling out. He doesn't race this way, with the caveat that with bomber quads and 60-80 mph, you will find yourself pushed back at that 90 degree angle, but when they are, they are really reaching forward and squeezing the abdominals not to fall. As an expert skier, I can do things that I wouldn't teach, but that's because of all the other skills that go into being an expert.
He’s a little sloppy with his hand position but almost everything else he does in the race course. You won’t find a video of him skiing in ski instructor form because it isn’t actually efficient.
Most of the techniques he uses are for highly advanced skiers only, less experienced skiers would have a hard time trying to learn like that. I think many of the ground rules are devised to help aspiring skiers to learn basic techniques, however with increased experience and fitness skiers can develop their own styles and technique, as Marcel does.
Hirscher brings rebound for joy back into slalom, when everyone else values arc to arc and says any energy not moving forwards is wasted. I love his skiing. Power, panache, and flight when he's not redirecting his motion. Almost preferred his first three world cup seasons to late Hirscher, had more rebound and power, even if less predictable. Hirscher shows that the fastest skiing and most fun skiing can still be the same.
2010 Val d'Isere, sheer exuberance, watched in slow motion (0.25 speed) it's awesome how little of the distance is spent in contact with the snow (which has a certain lack of control ! but he's choosing exactly when to extend and establish that contact): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4iSJTZ63fYU.html
The funny thing is that I have never heard of these technique mistakes so far. I have always watched the WC racers especially Hirscher and tried to copy his style. And I can absolutely say that it is the greatest fun to ride down the slopes with Marcels technique.
You could not compare marcel hirschers ski skills with the skills from the rest pf the world. He was and he is a legend and the only guy on this planet who can skiing like no other. And he also learned skiing with the ski school metods.
Wow that is really cool. Super fun to watch and I love the take away message of just having fun and learning what is possible for us personally. Marcel looks like he has springs in his legs.
@@ReillyMcGlashan For me the fundamental question is whether young skiers who are starting to develop their technique should be taught the "right" fundamentals or instead let them find what works best for them even if it is unorthodox.
@@xcubos I think that is up to the coach or instructor to help guide the student to help them learn what "is possible for them personally" as Francesco said. I will only ever teach one of my students what they need to learn to get better... I am not teaching people crazy techniques left field to throw them off (unless they are at that level and it is what they want)... Every student is different and also have different goals, but the takeaway is finding the techniques that make skiing the most enjoyable for you... If skiing a green run all day in a wedge makes you happy and you don't want to learn anything else then hey, who am I to say it's wrong... All i could do would be to encourage them to at least want to get to parallel as it is easier on the legs. 🤷♂️
I'm a ski instructor and a reasonably advanced skier (not expert). I love when the skis leave the snow due to rebound - it's awesome. I'm also forever get told by trainers that I get into the backseat at the end of the turn. All ski racers do it though. I like the point that you're making - good skiing is a very subjective thing.
when i ski a FIS SL ski i end up in the backseat at the end of a turn a lot too . could it be that those skis are just too stiff for their length for "fun" skiing. (and Hirscher is a big dude too)
i tried this transition last time i went skiing and it is amazingly secure feeling. works better on harder surfaces. if you recant the hill to align with his centripetal acceleration vector, you'd see his mass is over his center. the pop isn't a pop in this sense and he's popping because he's shortening the ski radius instead of riding it around. I was blown away by how stable this technique is!!!
One cannot but be surprised, on the one hand, and one cannot be surprised, on the other, that the champion Hirscher, who apparently has no equal, and is not expected in the near future, can do anything. Including what is considered "errors". Perfectly owning the ice sports track, he can afford even more in free riding on "velveteen". For example, tie hands behind back, sit on the backs of the skis, lie with hips on the snow, ride upon the inside ski, stand on his own head, etc. etc. And everything will do for him! He is, in fact, a circus performer. In one word - a champion! Thanks for video! Нельзя не удивляться, с одной стороны, и нельзя удивляться, с другой, что чемпион Хиршер, равному которому, видимо, нет, и в ближайшем будущем не предвидится, может всё. В том числе и то, что считается «ошибками». Отлично владея ледяной спортивной трассой, он в свободном катании на «вельвете» может позволить себе ещё большее. Например, завязать руки за спиной, сесть на задники лыж, лечь бедром на снег, идти на внутренней лыже, встать на голову, и т.д. и т.п. И всё ему сойдёт! Он, по сути, циркач. Одним словом - чемпион! Спасибо за показ!
Enjoyed the video. Clearly here Hirscher is having fun and more or less just "fooling around" in this freeski run. The way many of us do. Certainly even he would admit that he is making a few fundamental "mistakes" that would absolutely not be his preference in a pure race situation. Like the occasion when he accidently gets twisted around to the right with arms behind him while turning left. As it says in the disclaimerd, on't take this skiing seriously. Agree just enjoy it and have fun out there.
Thanks for reading the disclaimer! I am glad you can see it is just a little bit of fun this video... Nothing to be taken seriously, just some entertainment and watching a master at work on the hill
He does most of these things in the race course too. The way he transitions knee bend and edge contact, getting back seat. It’s maybe even a little more stylized here but he’s taking what’s fast in the race course to free skiing. I’d anything I think he’s pointing out that some of the ski instructor stuff is becoming over stylized and not functional.
Yesss! I was hoping for an analysis like this. I've grown to really love this style of skiing with the dropping inside hand and airborne pivots in super high performance turns
I love this video, Reilly! Marcels skiing is absolutely outstanding in the gates and it is such a pleasure to watch him free ski - AND to hear your awesome analysis and take on ski technique. I very much agree with the points you are making in this video. Your videos - and the videos from Projected Production - has been a great source of learning and inspiration to me for a long time, keep them coming! /Janus
Absolutely love your analysis and totally correct having tought for 60 years and raced for that many I have gone through so many changes in this wonderful evolving sport and I really appreciate your getting out of the norm and saying exactly what you see bravo
What Marcel Hirscher can get away with physically far exceeds what even excellent recreational skiers can. Even for very good recreational skiers, the advice to stay stacked and out of the back seat is excellent advice. I’m a very experienced skier but not particularly strong in my lower body. Some of my ski buddies are exceptional athletes, incredible skiers in all conditions, and very strong in the lower body. All of them will tell you getting in the back seat is the quickest way to fry your quads and your ski day earlier than you want.
regarding the ski "tips" coming off the snow (more then the tails), this is not an error, its indicative that he is engaging certain muscles, including dorsiflexion and foot pullback, which contribute to maintaining balance as he proceeds past transition into the belly of the turn. I agree though, its a common mis-diagnosis to label that observation as skier error.
I have a feeling that before you could copy Marcel's technique you have to master proper skiing first. Marcel has iron quads. He can backseat all day long. A novice skier will just get tired after a couple of turns and start piling up mistakes until balance is upset leading to a stop or a fall
Hand drags are cool if you are in balance. I think the reason most coaches excoriate their athletes for doing them is that they try to take a shortcut and lean in to achieve a hand drag, and put too much weight on the inside ski.
Going far to the backseat with about 90 degrees knee bent to initiate the turn was one of the techniques I was taught in the 70s. Of course these were skidded turns on straight skis, but some of the dynamics probably translates to aggressive carved slalom turns.
I really liked your video. I have been watching lots of videos of Candide Thovex and he always looks like he is also in the back seat but has more control and balance than any free skier I've ever seen
Well said. I imagine instructors teach based on what will give the student the highest probability of progress in the shortest time for their particular ability.
A ski trainer a I had told me once: "race training fu#ks up your skiing". Seeing this video reminded me that quote. Technical skiing and competitive skiing seek two different goals. In a race, the fastest time wins. Of course there are fundamentals behind. But that's the ultimate goal of ski racing. I don't agree with that quote, but I understand it now.
The 'arm behind the back' thing you talked about, I have hardly ever seen that beeing taught or mentioned. Yet many great (GS) skiers use it when enough time..Hirscher, Pinturault, Zubcic, Kranjec,..
@@ReillyMcGlashan it happen just because these movements are customisations of personal skiing styles, known as unbalanced movement to increase momentum at the end of the turn, increasing speed. You can teach these movements just to really high skilled skiers, otherwise a intermediate/high skilled skier will crash for sure. A skilled ski instructor teaching to a person, let say just for 3 hours, can't even mention about this stuff, is just way more important to teach to gain more control. If someone is interested to learn this stuff is way better to join a ski team or at least take a proper amount of ski lessons. Racing skiing and slope skiing are completely different things.
Great video! I grew up competing in many sports & tennis comes to mind as teachers would teach you proper strokes but competition forced you to find different grips & speed-generating techniques to hit harder & with more spin to order to compete. I've come to skiing later in life & have watched adult instructors in groups become obsessed with minuscule technical skiing details standing on the side of runs, as I ski past them over & over - I sometimes just laugh. Marcel's wiki page is insane - but the instructors would hate his skiing - awesome!
@@stevebag3720 glad i live in austria, all ski instructors i know are insane skiers. even the "young" ones are really good one of which is a friend of mine, (hes 21). another good friend is a snowboard instructor (22), and hes really really good aswell. sad to hear youve had bad experience with instructors.
Beware that some elements of the skiing technique do not scale with the steepness of the slope. Hips over feet and a pronounced re-centering (hands in front, pole planting) are still required in tight turns on steep slopes.
I think they key thing is the relaxation, his body moves naturally with the skis and gradient because he is so relaxed. If you sit back like a stick that don’t mean you are the next Marcel. I guess the key is instructors give what’s needed to learn, a bit like driving, once you have learnt and a long as you ski enough it’s about unlearning what actually stops natural movement.
Hischer's boot set up and forward lean should really be mentioned. He runs 19-21 degrees of forward lean! This is 4-5 degrees over the stock setting of a normal RACE boot! He also measures for a 27.5 boot...but uses a stretched out 25.5! It is also stiffer than the stiffest plug boot you could get...and he stiffened it up MORE. The boot set up, TIGHT fit, and stiffness has a lot to do with his ability to reset position in transition. He probably could not ski like this at all in a boot like yours or mine.... Massive stiffness and crazy angles combined with elite athleticism.
Whoa! What a great video! Any theories as to how Hirscher was able to keep his very unique (and very FAST!) style intact in the context of a notoriously regimented Austrian national ski team??? Great endorsement for findinga style that fits your body, equipment and skill level... thanks for the super video!
I think the saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it" 😂... He is an innovator in line choice on this new equipment... The fast people realise and accept the movements, the right people will be able to incorporate some of this into their skiing. Albeit the "right" person.
What passes for skiing these days is coming down the mountain out of control, skis wide apart, arms flailing, slam banging from one mogul to the next. I am 80 and have emulated the grace and beauty of the late Stein Ericksen since I was fresh out of college. People continually come up to me and say they wish they could ski like I do -- feet close together, poles out to the side, reverse shoulder movement, and one smooth turn after another. ps -- I ski on 200 cm narrow skis, not a pair of 165 cm boards that are as wide as water skis.
Wow that's a lot of big talk. I thought skiing was about having fun. It is after all the most elegant form of travel ever devised by man. Why the need to bash other people if you are so godlike and good?
Hi, Joseph. Old Park City local here. Kudos for still getting out there and getting after it. I knew Stein. I shanked a lot of golf balls into his back yard when he lived on the golf course back in the 80s. I worked in his ski shop at Deer Valley off and on during the last twelve years. He was as Gracious to me and everyone else as he was Graceful on skis. Trashing other skiers is not Stein's Way. That's as far off track as you can get. Attaching yourself to Stein's reputation then trashing other skiers contrary to everything he believed in is a disgrace. I suggest you put more effort into emulating Stein's Gracious Spirit and less emphasis on your ability to mimic his technique. I never wanted to ski like Stein. But I've always tried to ski with his amazing Grace and his Gracious Spirit. That's taken my skiing further than I ever thought it would go. Be content with your own skiing and the compliments that come with it. Sounds like you're still skiing pretty good and having fun. That’s good enough for the girls I go with. :) .
Yes, that's how Marcel Hirscher skis... And I ski like I ski and Ted skis like he skis. I agree, we all ski differently. I don't recommend people try to duplicate their hero's technique, but, a little technical thievery can go along way. In Dynamic Steering we encourage whole body participation. Park n riders need not apply. I liked your video, thanks...
Just because Marcel is able to compensate for the ‘mistakes’, doesn’t mean average skier should do them as well. Because average skier usually can’t get out of a ‘mistake’. That’s why they’re called mistakes. To warn us against trouble. Not to define ultimate reality 😎
Love your stuff man, as a first year FIS racer its interesting to see all these different techniques and how going fast in ski racing does not always mean the best technique.
Over the years I've tended to use longer skis than other skiers. To get a shorter radius turn I've had to really pressure the skis into a rebound that hopefully had that energy throwing my body mass down the hill rather than upward. I've always been a dynamic skier. Well I'm now at that age where I don't have as much flexibility nor strength. I've gone to women's length skis (i.e. 188cm GS versus 193cm for men). There is an old saying in ski racing that strength equals speed. This means being able to pressure (bend) the skis which is camber that can be used to accelerate by directing a forward rebound. Unfortunately, I don't have as much leg strength nor flexibility to drop my hip to near the snow level as I once had. Alice Robinson squats a bunch of 150 kg reps every day. She just destroys GS events with her power.. Fortunately for Shiffrin, and Vlhova, she (Robinson) doesn't have a technical mastery as they have.
Well, one have take into consideration, that worlds class athletes as M H are strong mentally & physically, they are trained to get down the fastest way possible and that not always corresponds with our ability to ski on hill.
Reilly, time for a vid of you skiing like this! would love to see you skiing on the edge like Marcel was there. (as in he was hucking it and was close to losing it a few times!)
“Back seat” looks like the only way to have this super flexed super amazing transition. He transitions from a more commonly accepted position through the back seat to a more commonly accepted position. He’s the best at this and it took a ton of practice. No technique is necessarily wrong, it depends on what you’re trying to do! If you’re standing up in transition your legs have nowhere to go without relying too much on inclining.
I think it's important to note that while Hirscher is in the "back seat" the skis are not loaded (ie. under pressure). By the time the skis load up he is standing back in the middle.
Yes Fred I'm with you. The knees bend to lift the ski's off the snow, so his weight is slammed down as he gets deep into the next turn. He is getting enough rebound from the ski's to jump across to the next turn.
I spent a couple of days at a master's race camp being coached by a guy who had skied with Bode Miller when he was a young teenager. His comment: "That kid has never started a turn with his pressure on the ski tips in his life!" The first time I saw Bode race at a Nor Am he was skiing on K2 recreational shaped skis ---- completely different from anybody else's equipment.
01:19 green Jacket is what’s been told. For me that was always out of balance. Way to far forward. My background is icehockey and obviously a lot of inline skating in summer. If going downhill on skates and do green type you would land on your face every time. If you watch quick turns in hockey they are like Marcel Hirscher. In speed skating you try to have your belly button more or less over the middle of the feet not like the green way over the toes.
Of course you are right but... you cannot expect instructors to let beginners run wild with anything. They must be given something to start with and understand what they are doing. Rules (and I am a very rebel kind of person) are there to give you a form. If you persevere there will come a time when you can break the rules, bend the rules, vilify the rules. But you cannot start running before you can walk. Marcel can do what he wants because he has completely mastered the position he can acheive on the skiis. he can even bend the rule of physics because he naturally has them in him by now. Not every one can do what he does but he is a himn to the joy of let go and have fun! As you pointed out having fun is what skiing is all about, if you let the rules contraint you too much the fun is gone
I thought there were only two rules: 1) get down the hill without falling, stopping, or running into anything 2) go that way really fast and if something gets in the way then turn
Instruction and rules just get in your way. Don't over-think it. Ski faster Turn quicker Don't fall Who instructed a frisbee catching dog to get so good at it?
these comments are coming fast and furious. Nice Job, Reilly. I think those turns are probably not going to work for everyone, certainly not like Marcel's, but we can still use the rebound and coming somewhat off the back of the ski as we finish the turn and move forward into the next turn. Racer do this to gain speed.
Reilly McGlashan! Bravo once again for your analysis and your courage to touch the sacred pylons of "modern" Apline skiing. Though you made clear not to take you very seriously, lets hope that you will not "burn in hell" you cult devil, ha ha ha! It is so often that "our eyes see what our mind believes" and the "Cognitive dissonance" is holding us up from the truth... Please my friend, let us know why you like to touch the snow with your inside hand and if this action means something more than just fun... Is it after all the "third point of support" for the best Alpine Ski Athletes at their toughest turns? Thank you in advance and keep tight...
Enjoyed your this video it’s a great break down of the body in motion. Fun to watch such a dynamic skier!!!! If I were to help improve the average skier these are definitely tell tail sighs to look for of an off balanced skier. Mind you we are watching a “superhero” athlete top in his field,on cutting edge equipment, on perfectly groomed snow., on what appears to be blue terrain. I guess what im trying to say is it’s not reality. I ski in the northeast of New England and we get ICE, hard pack, polished porcelain and it’s critical to be on the whole ski with the body properly balanced. With that said there is nothing like taking a deep side cut slalom ski that has a fresh tune and ripping it out in the early morning on fresh corduroy. Popping from turn to turn.
By pushing myself to ski faster and to turn quicker, my completely unskischooled body learned a ski technique that worked in nearly all snow conditions (this was back in the 60's and 70's). That technique is a whole lot like what Marcel is doing in this video. You are correct though, the one condition it doesn't work in is on polished, porcelain like, glare ice. There you need to be centered over the skis because you never know when even your sharp edges won't hold a carved turn and suddenly let go into a sideways skid (or into a spin-out if you are too far forward, or too far back). I love my slalom racing skis for their excellent edge grip on most ice, and for their great carving ability (I managed two carve two circles on frozen spring slush with one momentum on them (twice in three tries). On the first try my cell phone started ringing and in trying to answer it, I stalled out at the top of the second circle). This was at an early freestyle skiers reunion at Park City in 2014, at the age of 68. Those racing skis are way too springy to use at high speed through moguls though, because that springy rebound throws you much higher up into the air, after being bent way down into a trough in the moguls (rebounding upwards results in much harder and a much less accurately placed landing). What you want in moguls is to stay as low a possible, your butt just missing the mogul top and your head sometimes almost between your knees. That keeps your skis on the snow as much as possible for better control. Slalom ski rebound is great on a rutted slalom course because the rebound then springs you back and forth, from rut to rut, and through the gates much quicker. With far less springy skis, this sitting back technique also works best in moguls, as well. Your skis and feet fend off the bumps ahead and it is much easier to recover from being too far back than it is from being too far forward. Sitting back in powder lets your skis ramp up in it and then porpoise up out and dive back in to the powder with each turn. Carving turns is easy when sitting back because with more pressure on the ski tails they resist skidding sideways.
As you say all depends on the skier ... heavy doubt about lambda skier having skills to recover from any of the turns MH is doing there ... your analysis is great ... as usual, however im not sure you mentioned the different phases of the turn the « mistake » was made ... Which to me defines if it’s a mistake or not ...thanks anyway 💪🤙
what ever......He's FREE skiing, Having fun and enjoying the feeling.....don't get overly technical about it...he's FREE skiing....Letting his mind be free!! That's why we ski! He who has the MOST FUN WINS!!!!!!!..............
because Marcel does some errors that doesn't mean they are not errors :))))) As you said, he's having fun, he doesn't care too much BUT, in the turn he comes forward like a boss !! And that is not at the reach of a lot of people , to come back like that with that amount of pressure in the turn. But hey, he has the same power in one leg as most people in two legs :)))))
Please keep in mind that he is on 165cm SL skis with around a 13m turn radius. They will come around no matter how far back you are at the start of a turn, especially on this type of hero snow. If Hirscher were on this same hill with a 35m GS ski or SG ski you would see an entirely different technique that would hold to more of the traditional rules. He is basically skiing these SL's so that they don't overload and pop so much that they wind up above his head. This is why I don't really like freeskiing on my SL's, too twitchy.
Another rule he breaks, a rule that I hate hearing coaches say “feet hip width apart.” Nothing in skiing technique is more personal than stance width. His hands are not good though, but since you don’t ski with your hands it’s OK. Don’t copy his hands.
Ok I get you said don't take this video too seriously - so I'll comment *just for fun too*. 1. Rising for transition being bad isn't a thing I've ever heard, I've always been taught in PSIA and racing that a "down unweight" is the more advanced technique and that either are perfectly good alternatives. However, Hirscher is pretty far back at the transition also which you also point out and *is* something you don't hear often from instructors. Almost all very advanced racers know this however, not just Hirscher. You don't always want to be slammed forward but start forward and roll back through the turn, then topple forward again at initiation. This puts pressure on your skis in the optimal place at the right part of the turn: early you want turn initiation via tip pressure, middle you want your whole ski to carve tip to tail as much as possible which requires even pressure in the middle, late you want your skis to move forward to prevent tails washing out and over rotation and to release your edges. This also gives you energy release (more on this below) to aid in a very aggressive fore-aft and side to side "topple" 2. Is really just pointing out #1 again. Yeah he's back. But he lands forward. 3. Skis coming off the snow at transition is something only less expert instructors might call you out on. Very advanced examiner level instructors would never say this. If you are hopping to initiate or checking, that is a different thing and not ideal, but rebound from flexed skis releasing energy is fine and a sign that you are doing things *very* right otherwise. So yeah it is great Hircher is doing this but not at all an example of him breaking the rules 4. Not sure what this is about, most turns he's solidly outside almost right away. On some turns he does initially *touch down* with the inside ski first but he lands his weight solidly to the outside (which is what matters). Also the pendulum thing is bad if you aren't angulating at all from hips or knees. Hirscher is getting insane edge angle on every turn, you can't get that much angulation unless your body angles some too and you can't compare him to normal skiers. 5. Claiming he drops his hands behind his back constantly is kind of fishing for flaws, Hirscher does this 1/10 turns. His inside hand does go low but his angulation is crazy, to lift it much higher he'd have to tuck it in like a T-rex! 6. Honestly I was going to say "he's playing" in this video but I looked at some race footage and he definitely does this all the time. I think it is again a testament to his insane edge angles. I'm not sure this is "breaking the rules" however because (a) no ski instructor would ever say this because no normal skiers *can* do this while making otherwise decent turns and (b) no race coach would ever say this because Hirscher is universally worshiped by them. So yeah it is an interesting breakdown but your point that everyone says these things are bad and he's breaking all these rules, eh, not sure about that.
Your #1 point was what worked best to carve turns before shaped skis came along. With shaped skis it is much more efficient to just stay more in the back seat and change your edges. A little pressure on your slightly angled out inside ski (for the next turn) like Marcel does initiates the next turn. Eliminating the forward pressure part needed to bend the ski tip to initiate the carved turns (with straight skis) allows you to "turn quicker" with shaped skis. Ski faster, turn quicker, don't fall!
@@Matt-cc1jv this is a super interesting response and something I've been thinking about a lot as it pertains to boot stiffness. I wrote that comment 3 years ago and since then, yeah, I think I've found myself more and more just staying dead center on my skis or center-to-back, never really jumping on my tips at all, and it feels great. Instead my focus much more is just on creating high edge angles early without pivoting at the initiation, even on shorter turns. The extreme fore-aft pressure shift just doesn't seem that necessary. The relationship to boot stiffness is because, if you aren't applying a lot of tip pressure, what do you need super stiff boots for? My boots right now are 130s and I weigh 175lbs, but I ski with my cuff buckles and power strap both pretty loose, so I think they ski more like 120s and I can't observe any negative effect of doing that on hard groomers, but the boots ski much more stably on rougher terrain and choppy powder, in addition to being much more comfortable.
An expert can break the rules because they are applying vastly different forces to the ski. I wouldn’t advise a beginner/intermediate to break those rules.
I can't help but think of the Jet Turn, popularized in the 60's or 70's by racers like Patrick Russell. The magazines would show photos of them loading the tails and so the new "sit back" style of skiing became popularized, which of course was totally misguided. I do remember a young guy, I think his name was Bode, who figured it out fairly well though.
Hmm.... so, I was right about those things? Glad to see this awesome video explaining in detail how real skiing looks. personally , I think that it is all about individual predisposition and skill. just because it looks different doesn't mean its wrong. As long as the turns feel good and are well controlled then everything is great. Haven't gone skiing yet this season and after watching this great turns am etching to hit the slopes. Thanks for the video, great job !!!
The “rules” for good skiing have nothing to do with anyone’s opinion, it is strictly the actual rules of physics. The relationship between the centre of mass and base of support and how inertia and momentum are controlled and manipulated depends on our ability to effectively control pressure, steering angle and edge angle. There is nothing wrong with having your skis in the air, airtime is fun, but is it the most effective way to direct and stay in control of momentum? No. You cannot get any deflection in the air. No one has ever turned in the air. It is fine to have your tips up at the completion of the turn, it is a result of aggressive fore-aft movement of the feet for balance through the arc of the turn. Can there be too much? Yes. Too much fore-aft movement is as destabilizing as not enough. Hand and arm position are much less important than alignment of shoulders and hips with line of momentum which allows for proper lateral balance and is most effective for increasing edge angle through the turn. Hips over feet is a misnomer, you point out how his hips are behind his feet at transition but fail to notice how he immediately extends his leg and you can clearly see his hip over his feet in fall line. The hips are not the centre of mass. His centre of mass was continuously working well in relation to his base of support. There is always going to be a fine line between perfect ski mechanics and fun expert skiing. This was a demo of fun expert skiing and not of perfect ski mechanics. There are many things instructors might say to help someone develop their skills which are not necessarily the “way” to ski but can broaden the skiers ability to adapt to situations. These can vary from drills to discipline the hands, create separation, monitor alignment, manage pressure, angulate effectively , etc. etc. .. the goal is always to have fun, not necessarily to ski perfect. Yeah, I’m a ski instructor.
I've been skiing for 75 straight ski seasons now. Many of those years were pounding through moguls while way back into the back seat, a few of those years as an early 1970's freestyle skiing competitor. When I told some orthopedic surgeons of my sitting back skiing technique they told me that working the knee joint that way while the kneecap was pulled into the joint would wear my knees out in a couple of ski seasons. I didn't change my sit back ski technique, and I'm still skiing on my original knees over 50 years later. I wish Reilly's video had been available when I was arguing ski techniques and suggesting they try pressuring their ski tails more, with the ski instructors on the "Epic Ski" forum then, ten to fifteen years ago (as Edgebyter). Ski faster, turn quicker, don't fall! That is how I learned to ski, without ever taking a ski school lesson, and it lead me to skiing much like Marcel does in this video. Thanks Reilly.
