My citizen, Ecodrive diver for 200 bucks has been through a lot, and neither the steel case nor the bracelet has a scratch. None of my premium Swiss steel watches comes even close. They all scratch very easily. Can somebody from the superior swiss watch industry explain their inferior steel?
Indeed, very true. My cheaper Seiko Prospex watches have the Dia-Shield coating and very superior to resisting scratches. However, my Omegas and my two Rolexes can scratch very easily.
I have one of those field watches from citizen, bought it when they came out 15 years ago for around $100. I beat this thing every week hard, salt water, sand, work during the week, it's been the most reliable watch ever for me, still going on point. I have destroyed many watch bands buy the watch holds like a boss
Your citizen is probably brushed whereas your Swiss watches have polished surfaces that scratch more easily. Most watch brands use the same steel alloy, 316L.
@@miopera40 If you think Citizen uses "superior steel" compared to Swiss luxury brands, I don't know what to tell you. Steel is steel. I tried looking up your watch because dive watches are rarely in high polish so I wanted to check it out. I could barely find any polished surfaces on Citizen dive watches, so I don't think you understand the difference between different types of polishing techniques.
I agree. Grand Seiko and Credor are amazing. But plain old Seiko aren’t regulated and some of their movements are known to have huge positional variance.
John, you nailed it! Respect! I'm a microelectronics and micro mechanical engineer. I'm collecting and having fun with watches. In general mechanical watches are obsolete, despite the fact that they are showing the time. It is the ART with mechanical watches which I respect and pay tribute to the horology. Nova days a smart phone or a simple cheap quartz watch will tell the time mostly more accurately than the mechanical watches. I agree with you that today are available much more precise machines to make watch movement components compare to old days. This means that the production is much cheaper than it used to be... including design which now computers took over. Now, different alloys and metal composites are available which are stronger and cheaper to make a movement. As you mentioned the bigger names just take advantage of poor knowledge of the normal people and charge a lot for it. All the best...
The most accurate watch in the world is a citizen $3500 with a leather strap - The most accurate chronograph is a Zenith - ETA 2824 GREAT ETA 7750 GREAT - Rolex and other ones like them sell you a dream of nothing because there are other watches better and cost 10 percent of what a Rolex and others cost - A fool is born every 15 seconds - The world is 90 percent fools to a certain degree - The 1 percent run the world - Also the 1 percent serve the military in the USA to protect the 1 percent that run the USA/world - Can i get a AMEN !!! AMEN
Good point! The lack of innovation is stunning. Everyone pretends that a high beat solar quartz is impossible. Meanwhile, automakers are making cars that drive themselves. It is a joke!
High quartz like the bulova precisionist is popular but it is very power hungry and needs a battery change every 18 to 24 months. Pairing with solar could be a great opportunity for a bold watch company
I was at a watch event with presidents and CEOs of a few prominent watch brands (under different parent companies). Their brands may officially be competitors, but these leaders were definitely all friends with each other.
Yeah Rolex is smart. They have mastered the art of fake hype. They literally pay millions to influencers of society to wear their watches that they give to them for free. Just one player in Tennis alone gets paid 8 million dollars a year to wear a Rolex. They recognize that the vast majority of people are sheep. If their favor celebrity wears a Rolex they want one even though they don’t know jack shit about the brand and it’s real history. These famous people are not wearing Rolex watches by their own choice. They are leveraging their fame and success to get millions of dollars from Rolex along with a free watch. Let that sink in for a minute. You’re spending thousands of dollars on a watch these people get for free because you’re the mark. Rolex is selling the false perception of wealth and success and people just eat it up like window lickers. Hans even said it himself. It’s all about marketing and it’s all you need to be a successful business.
I‘ve been on the buyout side of a business and it’s sweet.. enjoy your moment of peace between the last thing and the next thing. Remember your gonna have to put a $i!7 load of money back for next years taxes. Keep it in a separate account. Good luck with your next adventure!
OK guys. So I am a Sub guy. On my 5th or so Rolex in 30 years. Mostly Subs, DS44, Batman. If I was expressing a little interest in Seiko's new release 62 MAS, should I pick it up? Even give to my public school teacher brother who I have wanting to look a little more tweaked. I am not likely to offer him my Tudor BB58 ETA Smiley or the ETA Pelagos. I might be interested in Omega planet Ocean divers for myself or wife. Any $ spent just feels like a wasteful intrusion into my next Rolex diver or GMT. 😨❤⌚⌚⌚⌚⌚
When I was young, you had to spend a relatively high amount to get accurate and reliable watches (only mechanical at that time). You phone now keeps better time than any mechanical watch. In many ways the watch industry is coasting on mystique. Auto racing, aviation, diving have a panache, but in truth wristwatches are almost immaterial now in those fields. Cars are clocked to hundreths or even thouandths of second by electronics. Dive computers havre replaced dive watches for any serious underwater work. Some aviation watches throw on a circular slide rule for 'navigation'--but it's meaningless==there are still navigation slide rules (search EB6) but they are not the simple scales on a watch. But the psychological association is still used in the marketing but that will wear off after a while. We can't anchor to the past associations forever. Let's enjoy watches for what they are, (I love skeleton watches because a a gearhead, not because I have any practical reason owning them) rather than what marketers promote them as.
Not sure it's a "hidden secret that watch industry doesn't want you to know" that it's not enough to make a great product, you also have to market it well to the right group of buyers. How is that an insider secret? Pretty much how business works my friend in every product category from cars to tech to watches.
Agreed. It’s not really a secret that any luxury purchase is an emotional one. The Rolex CEO recently said in his last interview, “we sell hopes and dreams”.
I own several, actually. They make some of the best movements in the world and, to their credit, actually innovate and push the technology forward in ways that the Swiss brands gave up trying to do decades ago
My father's Orient Kamasu diver watch has been +2/-1 maximum every day for the past 3 years. Keeps time perfectly, the movement has always been running, either always on the wrist or resting on the table for a day. Great isochronism on that too! Generally seems to be at 0+- even when worn rough around the gardens and while just sitting there.
I have a Seiko Alpinist with the 6R35 movement. To be honest I wasn’t expecting much in terms of accuracy given their-15sec/+20 seconds quotes. Well damn, that thing is the most accurate watch in my collection of much pricier pieces running around 3 seconds fast over one week. Just lucky or is this pretty much normal?
Thanks John! Subscribed to the new channel. I am very intrigued by the success of Rolex. The fact that they hold 40% of the luxury watch market speaks for itself. Perhaps you can share your knowledge about the marketing genius behind Hans Wilsdorf and his companies?
Excellent and honest video, these guys know each other from two or three centuries ago and, they act and work like a” mob” nothing wrong with it, they just produce watches, that today are not necessarily a tool, as we can read the time in a movil phone or and intelligent watch , wrist watches are jewelry another way to brag as we do with cars, etc. When these guys were threatened with the Japanese in the early sixties, before the start of the quartz era, regarding the competition about accuracy , in Switzerland, they stopped this competition. Anyway all of us because different reasons loves watches and almost all of us in certain way know and understand what you say. Again excellent video.
Several hundred years old industry? Bit exaggerated I would say. Not even 200 years. And to suggest that what they do today has anything to do with the late 19th century, also a bit wild. I would suggest less sensational. Will gain in credibility.
John, I Enjoyed your perspective over the past seven years. Too few venture capitalists can say they started a watch reselling business that also manufactured its own micro brand! Go take a well deserved vacation and if appropriate, do videos on your travels.
John, have followed you for the past years on RU-vid. Amongst all Watch RU-vidrs, this has got to be the most refreshing, honest, transparent, forthcoming and enjoyable video ever made on this platform. Wishing you continued success. You deserve that.
Your insights have bee really helpful. You mention TikTok dancers. So, John, are you getting into being a dancer on TikTok? Is that what you're really trying to say? :)
Great vid. Something I'd like to know is assomeone inside the watch industry, are there any practices from brands that stand out? e.g. Brand A has exceptional service, manufacturing process, parts support for watchmakers etc
You can swap the word ‘wristwatch’ for ‘handgun’ and the argument still holds water. Every major company sells basically the exact same product. There are microbrands that copy big brands and even their parts interchange. $7000 works of art handmade by elves in mountaintop castles perform identically to $300 tools made from recycled soda bottles in 3rd world countries.
COSC and METAS certifications are pretty meaningless for anything but bragging rights after you buy the watch. A couple years down the road, it won't mean as much, and once it's been serviced, it's totally meaningless unless it gets recertified, and I don't think that happens. I've got a Seiko-based custom build I did that keeps almost as good time as my much more expensive Longines, and it's about 1/10 the cost.
Great video. I have Seiko mini turtle, I like it a lot. I was thinking of a more elegant diver watch, like a "dress diver". My choice would be the Longines Legend diver 36mm as I have quite a small wrist. But I am not entirely sure about it. In some videos I saw on youtube about that model some people complained that the mechanism stopped working after few months or after 2-3 years. The repair is quite costly (somewhere around 250 euros). As I understand it is an ETA mechanism.
The devaluation of COSC is real. My Tissot Gentleman Automatic runs +3 secs a day. My Longines Hydro runs +2 secs a day... COSC might be more relevant when it comes to Sellitta.
Watches that are accurate to within +/- 4s/day are not 'keeping to chronometer spec'. There are other tests involved, like measuring accuracy at certain angles and under other operating conditions, like temperature. They are tested for the consistency of their accuracy, under various conditions. Getting an accuracy of +/- 4s/day on a timeographer or using the WatchCheck app is having a very accurate watch. You have a total right to be 'blown away', or pleased, by that. But you do not have the right to say "It is performing within chronometer spec", any more than a cheap watch company has the right to print the word 'chronometer' on the dial because 'chronometer spec' has nothing to do with the rudimentary way that you, personally, tested your watch. Everybody needs to get that through their 'whatever kind of skull they have (probably thick)' skulls.
What I have learned is with Grand Seiko is they praise them selves so highly but when it comes to their US service center they are horrible and have no pride in their workmanship. Wont be buying anymore Grand Seiko or Seiko.
Spending thousands of dollars more on luxery watches which are 99% identical as their replicas doesn't make sense. Other than that there are cheaper brand watches that look just as good if not better.
Thanks John. I have always viewed luxury watches as a form of jewelry. Which is perfectly fine, and I will eventually buy an Omega or Grand Seiko. If I want a tool watch, I will buy a $100 Seiko Solar, and not worry if it gets damaged or lost. I would never pay $30,000 for a golden hammer, and then use it to build a house. Even if I was a billionaire. Sorry, Rolex.
Congrats on the exit! You’ve clearly got the PE/VC bug - I wish I would have gotten on that train a lot earlier in life. It kills me to think how much income I missed.
I sold all my luxury watches for homages. The longer you’ve been in this hobby, you’ll realize that most watches are pretty similar. My Seiko NH35 which I regulated is well within the accuracy of a Rolex GMT Master II’s movement. The technology is so good now. The machining is also well done. I have a $200 San Martin Hulk Subby homage and I can’t believe the machining. It also has screwed in solid links! My $1,500 Tag Haeuer F1 doesn’t even have screwed it links. Wth?!
Watch enthusiasts who think mechanical watch movements are the height of technical production, such people are clueless. Watch movements are not close to being high tech at all, but rather it's a cottage industry plodding along while the rest of world has moved on.
TBH, lost the groove for watches - there is only so muh that can be said about them and its all been said over the past 4 years. Sold out a low/mid value collection and now only have the apple watch.
Understandable, also you can't buy a watch every month, let alone years or decades for some model. Getting information and understanding the game is really important but after 2 years, you almost know everything and all the dirty shenanigans, so you end up with an Hamilton and move on with life lol
I'm not quite to that point yet but close. I usually burn out with new hobbies after about about 3 to 4 years. Once I learn everything I can and buy pretty much everything I can I get bored and move on to the next thing. I started this journey in 2020, have bought every watch I ever wanted, almost and now am getting pretty bored with watches. It's about time to move on to the next thing but I definitely won't be selling my collection for an Apple Watch!
Watches are useless commodity, and sold as luxury with added polish, by Marketing, fake stories, more so than ever before, although always been going on. It‘s just status posing BS. There‘s only one value - a hand-made craftsman watchmaker end2end manual personal manufacture. The rest is industrial or partly industrialized products. Is the manually created singularity of a watch better in performance quality than a 500usd watch? Not likely, it‘s a representation of the human that built it, it‘ll have bugs, issues and needs service - old school.
Most people wouldn't know a Rolex from a Seiko but don't work in an office without a watch. It's a dead give-away that you are from the lower social classes. Polished shoes, decent clothes, a nice stainless-steel watch and a good haircut will take you far.