63395 in trouble as it starts the climb through the Esk Valley. NYMR 2015 09 27 

That's one of the many pleasures of the NYMR - hearing a steam engine working hard. I have a number of videos of NYMR not all with an engine having problems.

Tim Green except this one was designed to haul freight, not passengers.

@@neildahlgaard-sigsworth3819 It's still pulling a load. That's what is important. It's not just pulling a tender without working.

9 IPO

@@neildahlgaard-sigsworth3819 Out of interest, where did you get the link to this video? It had about 500 views about 6 months after posting it, and then suddenly started to get thousands of views, currently over 360,000.

Thanks for the technical info,thesesteam trains area amazing, love them all, the drivers generally recognised the engine's functions,experience and good ears, those were the days. She'll be 'chuffing' when all the Diesels have croaked.

So basically,something screwed up? Yeah?

As an ex fireman from the fifties, in all my time as a fireman I have never experienced " water carry over ", if you were careless and left the injectors on and filled the boiler, particularly if it happened in the station, that would be deemed to be a criminal offense, yes, the railway police do have very strict laws especially if there was a chance of the public being sprayed with boiling water. I believe this was a planned set up for the crowds of photographers. If there was too much water in the boiler it would have blown out of the safety valve, there is also a steam regulator gear apart from the throttle which is part of the linkage train. If you look, there is steam coming from the injector pipe indicating that the boiler was being filled due to the massive chimney draft from unusual usage. The difference in funnel sound was probably when the firebox door was opened for stoking. Not a great idea to open the drain valves on an incline and having the steam condensing on the rails, note the brief wheel spin.....and it wasn't really pulling a great load...

Wow, good to have a fifties era fireman to explain this technology. Sir, which railroad did you work for? Bob Mohler

@@robertmohler9219 Glad you think so Bob, but every engineman knows these things. This video wasn't taken in the 1950's and hundreds of steam locos are still in service all over the world along with thousands of current steam drivers and firemen (and women). Driving and firing principles haven't changed for 100 years no matter what type of steam loco or what country you are in. When I was firing many years ago I was taught by the generation before me, who were taught by the generation before them from experience, as well as qualifying in Boiler and Engine Driving Theory of course.

By the way, the smoke is supposed to be grey, which you can see very near the end as the fireman finally gets her under control. . She was trying to "clear her throat" all the way up the grade, dumping lots and lots of saturated steam out the stack... :-)

The 10 Wheeler in San Diego had manual cylinder cocks and piston timing gear, and when she water hammered when the cocks were left closed, she broke her frame. Deceased. Slide valves were always safer, since a water hammer merely lifts the plate to relieve the pressure.

Agreed. Possibly a slightly overfilled boiler in a non tapered boiler lead to a carry over. The regulator and reverser gear are the proper things to regulate torque, which some viewers think is what is happening when the drain cocks are opened !

@adjn1973 Priming is when water is carried over in the steam supply to the cylinders usually caused by foaming in the boiler due to impurities in feed water collecting in the boiler. this is cured by either blowing down the boiler or washing out the boiler this latter is a standard maintenance procedure. Blowing down the boiler can be done by the train crew whilst the loco is in service but it must be done with care as it rapidly lowers the water level in boiler which could be dangerous.

@adjn1973 The train crew had opened the cylinder drain cocks to prevent water building up in the cylinders and causing a hydraulic "lock" to occur as water is incompressible. Had this happened, either the cylinder ends would have been blown out or other serious mechanical damage to the engine would have happened. Usually the drain cocks are open when the engine starts from cold and the steam condenses in the cold mass of the cylinder casting. Once the engine has"warmed up" they are closed as this conserves steam. If the crew realises that priming is occurring, opening the drain cocks is the immediate action that they must take. I don't think that they would try to blow down the boiler at that point in the journey as the train is climbing a steep gradient. They would wait until the train was in a safe place to do it. I have seen the crew on the train on the Brecon Mountain Railway do this - a great railway to visit.

@adjn1973 Experience in operating a steam locomotive - you'd better ask them

Priming Is a chemical reaction, carry over Is the water physically being taken up. Larger boiler locos can go upto around 2500-3000 ppm of tds before they start to experience priming. Nominally, one inch of blow down removes 90-110 ppm of tds from the boiler and on an average, for every 22 miles a loco does on a heritage railway (speed and work taken Into account) you'd evaporate around about 4 meters cubed of water. Other things that can affect priming are boiler design, alkalinity and water level. If you fully soften water, It'll likely prime, If the water level Is too high, even with good water, It'll prime. If the distance between the top of the water level and the top of the barrel Is too small, when the regulator Is opened, you'll produce waves and If those waves exceed 6m per second In speed, you'll likely carry the water over, break the surface tension and then It'll prime. Highly pressure boilers will convert most alkalinity to caustic (OH) at 180psi It's a 85% conversion rate. There's a direct correlation between TDS and alkalinity, so If the TDS gets too high, alot of railways will use anti foams, which Is bad practice. It's kinda' like taking a pain killer, doesn't fix the problem, but you just can't feel It anymore. The worry Is also carrying over Into the super heaters or a face to face lifted regulator, because It'll equalise the pressure on bother sides and you won't be able to shut It. Also, the more steam you use, the more a loco will prime. If you have particularly bad water and the safety valves are lifting, It'll likely prime and If you put the Injector on, It'll prime more. Locomotive boiler chemistry Is a dark art.

@i. rob It's my job 😊. I manage boilers and their chemistry on a heritage railway(s) to reduce scale and/or stop It from forming, stop the corrosion of metals and how to properly manage a boiler amongst, what's happening Inside when It’s being worked hard etc etc and all other things boiler related! And when I'm not doing that, I'm just a general all round fitter/overhaul/ bit of machine shop 🙂. I'm lucky to have been the apprentice to a very knowledgeable man who was a nuclear physicist, but just so happened to love all things steam, having Is own traction engine and steam roller which he did the boiler work on and repaired It. His father was a driver on the London Tilbury and Southend railway, which Is where his passion for steam comes from. I make a point of visiting him twice a week and sharing our knowledge.

Thank you. It is one of my favourite spots on the NYMR and I have quite a few more videos from this location on RU-vid and more to come.

@ragnhild thingstad LOL, that was just what I was gonna comment. He needs a good fluid head video tripod. :)

@@EdEditz I do have a slightly better fluid head now but I have to use what I can afford

@@gricerman2054 That's okay. It is a great video anyway :)

Well done, indeed. Such a great video! That must have been quite a long high-quality zoom lens. You did such a good job overall of following the subject and keeping the shaking to a minimum. I know how hard that is to do. Great work from selection of the vantage point to the execution of the shoot.

Correction, wasn't that song by A.P. Carter?

Johnny Cash also sang that song.

"..listen to the rumble, listen to the roar, as she glides along the woodlands, by the sea and by the shore.....

boxcar willie wabash cannonball

Nothing to do with any american "railroad" This is a British Steam Locomotive running on ralls in the British Isles, the place where steam locomotion was invented.

Well said and I agree with your comments.

... 'People' are so quick & easy to discard the past (connected to the present); and the persons & memories they hold dear leave (even quicker) along with it.

Thank you. I have a few more at this location which you may like too

@@gricerman2054 You're welcome, I'll check them out :)

Well some of us have actually done the job so we might just be able to make an intelligent guess.

@@profatkwvr and some of us just like watching. Then reading comments from those who can explain it Cause they have the Experience,!

Pressure relief valve blew. He added fuel too soon before the upgrade

The fireman put too much water in the boiler and she primed. The water got into the steam pipe through the cylinder's up the chimney. The steam coming from the front is from the cylinder cocks under the cylinder's.

@@paulmallery6719 On that line you're meant to get the valves blowing before the climb, so you definitely know that you are going to make it up hill and that you've got a good fireman. And that wasn't the safety valve, those were the cylinder cocks.

Opening the cylinder drains so that the water slugs in the cylinders dont get compressed by the piston and blow out a cylinder head. Priming is VERY bad for a locomotive.

No.

Your saying applies to this one too: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1svTT51YqHQ.html. All sound at first but see it come round the bend

Aah nothing wrorse then a lazy armchair steam locamotive engineer expert with a beer in hand reclining watching youtube spewing what the engineer should haves, could haves, what if's, and if I am the armchair engineer and would have... instead of enjoying historic steam engine pass by.... Warning liberals like yourself will get steam power banned c as well use its poor emmisionssions causing climate change all from the arm chair steam engineering expert...

@SS Standartenfuhrer no grumpiness on my part, one happy camper here. However, clearly you are overly sensitive and very grumpy.

@SS Standartenfuhrer perfect, they have openings, government free shit unsustainable handouts, good to take advantage of... after all it us you're tax money they are wasting.

@@airgliderz I agree, as a one time fireman on another heritage line, the driver would have had my guts for garters in similar circumstances. Part of training for firemen is to maintain a suitable level of water in the boiler which this video shows is clearly not the case here.

Wet steam at chimney, wet steam at cylinder drain cocks = carry-over/priming/boiler over-filled. (someone forgot to shut injector off?)

@@nlo114 In these days of global warming and climate change, we should not be operating these terribly polluting machines.

@@PreservationEnthusiast you'll live

@@bigchevy80 You don't understand the seriousness. Insect populations are disappearing. We are facing mass extinctions and climate change on a global scale.

@@PreservationEnthusiast Calm down Chicken Little. Lmao

Thank you! I wondered where it was. It reminds me of my one trip on British RR to Northumberland from Victoria Station in London.

mark carey if you think this is beautiful, you should see it when it gets to Newtondale a few miles further south!

Thank you for taking the time to comment. It is always appreciated and I am pleased you like the video. In the UK we call him the driver (even though he is an engineer) but that is where different countries have different names for the same job. The problem is that water is being carried over into the cylinders and the cylinder relief valve is opened to save serious damage to the cylinder from hydraulicing. The pressure relief valve is on the top of the locomotive in front of the cab and opens automatically when the boiler pressure exceeds 180psi. You refer to the old steamers, and this one is over 100 years old having been built in 1918. Regards

@@gricerman2054 Thanks! I appreciate your reply and knowing what the engineer is called over there. This is a good vid and I subscribed hoping there will be more! 😁

@@BradfordGuy Thank you for subscribing to my channel. I have 50+ videos on the channel, some not over interesting, but quite a few that are. for example, click this link ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LMATsc3AEVw.html It is a similar loco at the same location (a few years earlier) having the same problem at the start of the grade. Our preserved lines have a 25mph speed limit, except the Great Central Railway. This has the same limit for normal trains, but is used by the diesel manufacturer, Brush, to test their loco's and has a discretionary limit of 75mph. I have a few videos where we some steam is doing 40-60mph. Worth a look I hope you enjoy my offerings

Then "I thought I could, I thought I could..."

Marie Katherine There is no think, only do or do not

It’s a novelty. You can’t get enough heat in NWT to create steam...unless you’re really mad!

Where u at in nunavit

Gricerman 2 months ago Hi Joe, Thank you for your comment. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train. I hope this clarifies what it means to prime. Best Regards Show less

It is a mixture of smoke and condensed steam. The chimney is the exhaust outlet for the used steam from the cylinders as well as the smoke from the fire which is coal.

Hi John Thanks for the comment. It's a popular spot for photographs but not easily accessible. They would not have got a good picture as the steam from the cylinder cocks would obscure the engine.

I think your right John, the train slows down and picks up again for the Tourists. Great bit of steam action though.

@@tyredlie No, it slowed down because the driver partly closed the regulator to avoid a slip; as soon as the draincocks were opened water shot out and onto the rails ahead of the loco making them rather slippery.

@@tyredlie The train would never slow down on that bank without good cause as the gradient is very steep by railway standards at 1 in 49.The driver had a problem and showed good enginemanship to avoid damaging the loco and keep his train moving.

I was thinking the same thing !!

I know I can, I know I can :-)

Safety valves you mean? The regualtro is the valve that allows steam into the cylinders.

Thank you for your comment He was doing it to save his engine from serious damage as it was priming. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train. I hope this clarifies things a little Regards Peter

The cylinder cocks have been opened to prevent damage to the cylinders as water has been carried over from the boiler. With this steep hill, the driver needs all the power he can get and opening the cylinder cocks reduces the power to the wheel, hence the serious slowing. Thank you for your comment

Hi Steev O, thank you for your comment. It is an interesting viewpoint and we mostly tend to favour our own national engines. This loco was originally built in 1913. I think I can understand how you think they look odd. Apart from them being much larger, I look at American steam locos and see that there is so much pipework and peripherals on view. This is also true of many European locos. British locos have most of that hidden away giving, to my eyes, a much more aesthetically pleasing look. It could also be that the British loading gauge is so much more restrictive and locos have to be built to fit. Regards Peter

@@gricerman2054 You got a point about all the exposed plumbing on American locomotives. I just watched some of the "46233 Duchess of Sutherland" footage and that's a very clean looking engine. Have a good day.

ha ha I loved that book when my mom read it to me. :)

Hi Michael Thank you for your comment. I don't think it is a boiler blow down, especially at the start of a climb at 1 in 49. Blow downs are usually carried out on shed and the steam emanates from under the cab area. Hope you enjoyed the video Regards Peter

Hi Pauluk, Thank you for your comment. Just to clarify what is happening, the driver is not actually priming the steam out the front. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train. I hope this clarifies what it means to prime. Best Regards

@Christopher Vagnone Hi Christopher, thank you for your comment and I am pleased it was helpful. This question has been asked a few times and you are only the second person to respond. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Regards Peter

Hi Jacques thank you for your comment. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released, serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train. I hope this clarifies things for you. Regards Peter

@@gricerman2054 IOW, a "clean" version of foaming. Fully understanding the tight fit of pistons to cylinder-heads and the incompressibility of liquid water breaking pistons/rods/heads, thus my phrase about the drains. Seems this engine was meant for short-distance low-speed switching (aka shunting) work, with no pilot truck (aka bogie), so it makes sense that it would not have a superheater, which would obviate really wet steam. How would the crew know if they were getting liquid-carryover, except they'd see raindrops coming out the stack? Been there, seen that, riding next the smokebox of an old saturated Baldwin. Thanks for the clarification, from a Yank.

@@jacquesblaque7728 Hi again Jacques. Interesting and knowledgeable reply as you seem to understand the possible problems. These locos were built, with superheaters, for heavy freight work hauling coal and minerals and were a very successful design. Just out of interest, There were 120 built 1913-1921 and the last was withdrawn in 1967. I know of three main causes of priming: Foaming from the water treatment, Boiler overfilled and climbing a gradient in reverse where the water runs to the front of the boiler. Because of the repeated opening of the cylinder cocks, I would guess foaming might be the problem. Keep safe in these troubled times

Hi Robert. It is due to water being carried over into the cylinders which is called priming and can cause serious damage if not actioned as the crew have done.

Yep, it primed up with water and it carried over into the cylinders. Boiler a bit too full. But he made it up, just.

Thank you.

@@gricerman2054 You are welcome also.

Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the pressure and water in the cylinder to be reduced This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. I hope this clarifies this for you

Gricerman .....thanks for the explanation.

@@gricerman2054 also a bloody good deicer for the rails. try doing that, on a modern electric or diesel

Hi Tina. Thank you for your comment, and I presume you are not from England. I hope the following will help clarify my video content for you. As it mentions at the end of my description, the scene is on a section of The North Yorkshire Moors Railway. This is situated in the north east of England. The problem relates to the locomotive priming as it starts on the steep incline. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders. Water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train. Kind regards

Amen!

Why all this technical CRAP? It's a bloody good film showing a Great Loco and even better countryside. Why don't all you "know-alls" go elsewhere and watch engineering stuff.

ouch prickly

That gives you the force on the piston rod, not the torque, at a specific pressure. With loco's tractive effort is the usual metric and if you Google tractive effort formula for steam loco, you will find what you want to know. It accounts for boiler pressure, cylinder bore, stroke and wheel diameter. It's an approximation at best. You multiply the result by 1.5 for 3 cylinder, and 2 for four cylinders. As for adhesion, well, ask the driver!

Hi Tommy Thank you for your comment Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train.

@@gricerman2054 Thanks for the explanation of priming! How can they tell that this happening? By gauges? By sound?

@@fredbentley4944 Several ways, most locos have pressure relief valves in the cylinders as well as draincocks and the driver would heat these opening, also the sound at the chimney changes from a bark to a wooffle and plenty of water comes out of the blast pipe with the steam showering the loco.

@@fredbentley4944 Hi Fred. The sound of the exhaust changes from a bark to a more muffled woofing sound, power drops off and the loco movement (the feel of the loco) changes. You can see the exhaust appears to change from the chimney. See also my video 901 priming.

Thank you. I'm glad you like it

Your saying applies to this one: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1svTT51YqHQ.html Just sound at first but wat til it comes round the bend

THanks Keith.

Hi Ed. Thank you for your comment. There is no average steam engine and no simple method of calculating torque output. Most information of this kind relates to tractive effort which will depend on the following factors: Piston diameter in inches, Piston stroke in inches, Operating pressure in pounds per square inch and diameter of the driving wheels. The tractive effort quoted for this locomotive is 28,800 pounds. Regards Peter

That huge monstrosity would never be able to negotiate the many tight turns and narrow valleys of British country railways.

It would have serious problems - it wouldn't make some of the corners or fit underneath the bridges

I'm with the cows. The engineer and the fireman weren't on the same page. Good recovery.

It's a shame they had the problems and the crew did well, but it makes for good video.

They are photographers/videographers, not trainspotters. The loco has a problem as it is priming and the driver is saving his engine from serious damage as it is priming. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance caused by the water in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the water in the cylinder to be expelled and the pressure reduced. This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco. This also has the effect of reducing the power to the wheels hence the slowing of the train.

I suppose jokes are only funny when you make them . . . typical 'mercan

@@NObody-kp2su Apologies. I did not see the humour. I have received a number of comments on similar line that appear to be serious comments. Regards Peter

@@gricerman2054 Humor is often easy to miss on the Internet without the use of emoji's, but I laughed after reading his original post. Also, at least in the USA, people who come to look at trains are called train spotters or "railfans". Some will take pictures / videos while others just watch.

Malcolm Abram I think they had to much water in the boiler the way it looked ,,, nice video , the relief valve was doin it’s thing for sure

@@johnsonford429 Good thought. More water, less steam volume, pressure drops more rapidly with each stroke.

Hi Malcolm This engine regularly pulls this load up the hill. and as my description says, the engine probably has too much water in its boiler and is priming. Priming is when water is carried over from the boiler into the cylinders and as you may, or may not be aware, water can not be compressed and if the excess resistance in the cylinder is not released serious damage can occur. The cylinders have drain cocks and the crew can open these which will allow the pressure and water in the cylinder to be reduced This is what you can see happening in this video. When the crew realise it is happening, they open these drain cocks, jets of steam and water are forced through the relief pipes at the front of the loco.

@@gricerman2054 Thank you for telling me this. It actually is very interesting. I appreciate it is a skilled job to run a steam locomotive.

@@gricerman2054 I guess because I'm used to watching American steam locomotives I was having a hard time understanding what was going on here. Seems like an odd design placement for cylinder cocks since it would be wetting the rails. At one point it looked like they slipped right after they opened the cocks. Locomotives I'm used to seeing eject water and steam to the side when the cylinder cocks are open. Again, I'm not familiar with this locomotive, but it appears to be a shared "discharge"... but there's no "chuffing" associated. That looks more like a blow down or a safety valve lifting to me, but from a weird location. Just a design difference with the cylinder cocks?

Nope it was to expell water carried over into the cylinders through priming. To prevent damage to the cylinderd

Now, look out for the loggers.....

Hi Dick Thanks for the comment. The loco still had plenty of steam as evidenced by that coming rom the safety valve in front of the cab. The driver appears to have got water carried over into the cylinders which can cause serious problems. the driver has to open the cylinder relief valves to force the water out and close the regulator which would slow the engine especially on a steep hill like this one.

@@gricerman2054 I'm not familiar with trains but boilers I am I fix them, I know if you blow off that much head pressure you have lost alot of power, it seemed as if he was shutting down, I take your word for it though you know more about driving boilers than me lol, I used to be a high limit on big boilers my friend Dad was fixing at Mc Clellan AFB, If I forgot to blow off steam it would have taken out the entire hangar.

No . These engines were designed for heavy freight . This was nothing .the engine was priming and that is the only way to avoid damage