6th Edition D&D is being designed: DC20

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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
4:59 Attributes
17:12 Damage
23:40 Actions
28:28 Advantage/Disadvantage
32:50 Spellcasters
41:03 Martials
49:19 Wrap up
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Опубликовано:

3 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 808

@TheDungeonCoach 8 месяцев назад

I am HONORED to have THE Treantmonk do a breakdown on this. You have a BRILLIANT mind for game balance and your feedback on DC20 has been great (and will be in the 0.5 update lol). You rock bro!

@duhg599 8 месяцев назад

What are your design goals with DC20? What is the design philosophy you’re using to guide development?

@Dragonspassage 8 месяцев назад

Have you played openlegend by chance because this sounds like a lot of lessons were taken from it.

@DidierPilon 8 месяцев назад

do what WoTC didn't dare to do: give him a job! :p

@michaeljpastor 8 месяцев назад

If there is a cantrip for "mezmerized by somatic component" yours is at maximum bonus. Just watching your hands while you described things was a charm spell all its own (and it really helped with understanding your system as you described it). It should be a part of your How To Tutorials if you ever do them.

@richardenander5812 8 месяцев назад

dude, this looks almost too good, no joke. I love DND, but I've had some minor complaints floating in my head for some years now, and you address all them and more. I'm going to be following your work closely, can't wait to see where you go from here, keep up the awesome work!

@saeedrazavi4428 8 месяцев назад

I REALLY like "reactions" using action points which refresh at the END of your turn. When I first heard they use action points, I was worried about people hoarding action points on their turn just in case they needed them and then wasting them off turn when they can't use them, so I was actually going to suggest they refresh at the end of your turn rather than the start before I heard that's exactly what the design is. Bravo!

@Rubo2333 8 месяцев назад

Seems like he is grabbing some of the best elements of Mutants and Mastermind (Attack and damage in one roll), Pathfinder 2e (Action system) and 5E. I'm interested to see how this develops.

@quickanddirtyroleplaying 7 месяцев назад

In M&M, the attack and damage are not in one roll. When a target is hit, they need to make a Toughness save vs. the attack's damage DC to determine its effect. It still is a good idea, however. This was something I implemented in my DtwenD system, where every point your attack beats your target's defense deals 1 point of damage. I have a playlist dedicated to the development of DtwenD, though it won't come to any market fruition for the foreseeable future due to lack of everything else needed to create a TTRPG product besides the text.

@Wyrmling1 7 месяцев назад

Also Spheres of Power (PF1e 3rd party supplement).

@inoroth2001 7 месяцев назад

I don't know whether to be proud of jealous that so many of these are ideas I have come to organically on my own for how I would develop my own TTRPG game system. The SP/Mana Points and upcasting/enhancing a smaller number of spells known instead of having to know a whole bunch of spells that all do similar things is inspired!

@FrostSpike 7 месяцев назад

The Cypher System (MCG) also does attack and damage in one roll. Weapons do a fixed damage amount (Light/Medium/Heavy= 2/4/6 - and Light decreases task difficulty by one giving essentially a +3 to the "to hit" roll), but this is increased according to the d20 task roll; 17 = +1, 18 = +2, 19 = +3 and a "minor" effect (e.g hitting a specific body part, or a knock-back), 20 = +4 and a "major" effect (e.g. a knock-down, disarm, or stun). An attacker can also expend "Effort" to increase damage or to ease the task. Cypher also only has 3 attributes - Might, Speed, and Intellect - which act as resource pools for "Effort", "Mana" to power abilities (e.g. combat maneuvers or "spells"), and a character's hit points.

@quickanddirtyroleplaying 7 месяцев назад

@FrostSpike Cypher System doesn't get nearly as much recognition as it deserves. For a system that essentially uses classes and levels, the amount of customization in Cypher is phenomenal while still being relatively easier to manage when compared to its more popular and contemporary counterparts.

@andrewschouten6166 8 месяцев назад

I am also digging the 4 actions reset at the end of your turn - it reminds me of deck building games where your hand resets at the end of your turn

@StarryxNight5 8 месяцев назад

That stamina system seems super fun. Makes Martials actually really dynamic to play even without that neat action system

@Duranous. 8 месяцев назад

I think that it is good that the ttrpg genre getting more systems is a good thing, regardless of the WotC tribulations. More competition, more ideas.

@tmzFRM 8 месяцев назад

If it had lead to more opportunities for systems from other countries I would agree. But no one is saying "let's try Tormenta 20". I don"t see a lot of variety in the proponents of the new systems that are trying to emerge from the OGL discussions. I also think that most of those creators have simply been duped: darrington press is publishing with ddb now, Matt Mercer doesn't seem to be betting on the end of D&D... The OGL was mainly aimed at preventing them from getting a monopoly on the homebrew space, and most of the small publishers - mislead by a vitriolic coverage that disregarded the fact that the OGL leaked was a draft, that kickstarter publications would still be out etc - fought against their own interests.

@Duranous. 8 месяцев назад

@@tmzFRM I don't know if I followed your whole idea but I assume you mean that controversy is much to do about nothing which is why I said regardless of the WotC tribulations. Whether the ideas are good is also another story I suppose. There is a reason we have pathfinder. If more try to do the same most will fail but competition of ideas is still good.

@tmzFRM 8 месяцев назад

@@Duranous. English is not my first Language, so I may have not expressed mylself clearly...what I was trying to say was that I don"t see a lot of people rushing to create variations on the theme "D&D 5e" under false pretenses as a great prospect for creativity. It also raises my suspicions when I don"t see any attempt to highlight alternatives that were made before in other countries - as the aforementioned Brazilian Tormenta20 . It always seem to me that everyone is just trying to manipulate a manufactured outrage expecting to profit with the creation of the next pathfinder. But here is the thing: pathfinder wasn't much of a new idea... It was just D&D 3.75. And that's what most of what I've seem seems to be: a trimmed version of d&d, a more video-gamey version of D&d etc. The whole thing seems stale, artificial and ill motivated to me. If the systems really seemed to be new, if more, different voices, were brought to the table, yes I would see it as an opportunity to new ideas to emerge. But what I've seen so far doesn't get me optimistic about what we'll get.

@Duranous. 8 месяцев назад

@@tmzFRM Your English is fine, it's just hard to communicate through yt comments. People definitely do take advantage of outrage bandwagons and I guess you are right. I've never heard of Tormenta 20. Maybe it's a language barrier thing, I don't speak Portuguese. But for any self proclaimed alternative to 5e, I think the test will be "do these projects still exist a year or two after the drama has died down", if not I guess it was just a grift. I agree that most of these ideas are not good and there may be a point to being made for the wrong reasons.

@Auctarius23 8 месяцев назад

I'd love to see some more DC20 videos from you. This seems like exactly the kind of system I wanted but didn't get from Pathfinder 2 or a 6e DnD. Just bought the alpha.

@TreantmonksTemple 8 месяцев назад

I will do another video at some point, maybe after the beta is released.

@bennettpalmer1741 8 месяцев назад

This feels like a super elegant mash up of DnD, Pathfinder, and it's own unique ideas. I love it. The way it deals with reactions is so clever, and I've wanted to see martials with "spell like abilities" for so long.

@SortKaffe 8 месяцев назад

Looks more like PF3e than D&D 6e as it's a big challenge in itself to master the 4-action economy. While it sounds satisfying for an optimancer, all of my 5e tables have at least one casual players that's not up to the crunch demanded by DC20 or Pathfinder. Instead, Shadowdark fits to all of my players. It's a fun simplified 5e without Bonus Actions and Reactions so that you only need to worry about your single Action, movement and maybe a free object interaction (which is more liberal as it includes drinking a potion). Turns are resolved very quickly.

@tibot4228 8 месяцев назад

@@SortKaffe Depending on the action options, a 4-point system might actually be easier for newcomers than the whole bonus action deal.

@RedsByrd 8 месяцев назад

@@tibot4228haven’t played with it yet, but i think the ap system can be easy to use. There’s always the ability to spend an action point to give advantage, so even a non-optimancer player who wants to hit real good, can just attack once and give themselves 3 advantages. Or attack twice and give advantage twice. It seems your better off varying your turn, but atleast you get something if you’re not up for all that.

@saeedrazavi4428 8 месяцев назад

I really like the spell boosting. I've had that idea for a bit (sparked by lesser/greater restoration being a great candidate). It does feel like it sets up a bit more work when designing spells than 5e since you can't just design fire bolt, you have to design all the mods, but from a player side, it feels like an absolute win!

@partyontheobjective 8 месяцев назад

Finally, potential to build an actual working Muscle Wizard.

@SimonClarkstone 8 месяцев назад

I came here to say that too. Or an element-bender (Agility spellcaster).

@masterd4964 7 месяцев назад

I was absolutely thinking the same thing

@mattwithoutfear 7 месяцев назад

I cast Fist!

@pheralanpathfinder4897 Месяц назад

Start with two paladin levels and go wizard the rest of the way. Max Strength just need 13 in cha and int. Now you can smite with your great sword. Or just play a Monk.

@almisami 28 дней назад

MASHLE biceps magic!

@Philographicks 8 месяцев назад

This is the mash-up / meet-up I never knew I needed. Alan’s energetic creativity and love for creating systems that are both fun and serve the fiction, and Chris’s attention to detail, balance, edge-cases and fine-tuning. Chef kiss.

@michaelmclawhorn6911 8 месяцев назад

I feel like having heavy weapons take an extra action point would make up for them having 4 pts of damage. Alternatively giving the smallest weapons one less disadvantage on additional attacks could lead to a ‘stab stab stab’ vibe in contrast to the barrel swing to knock people over.

@N8Maple01 7 месяцев назад

I like this. This is cool.

@ericpiper9002 7 месяцев назад

I don’t think it should take an extra action point if the minimum strength requirement is met. The required strength allows that person to wield a two handed weapon as quickly as someone else handles a normal weapon. At least that would be the theory. perhaps allow someone to spend an extra action point to wield a two handed weapon when they do not meet the strength requirement.

@grr-OUCH 25 дней назад

Personally, I am tired of people trying to make rules that try to make the finesse characters better than strong characters. Smaller weapons should never be better than larger weapons that are designed for actual combat. The knife is a backup, not a main weapon. You use the knife to get a bigger weapon, then you use the bigger weapon.

@TheRamblingShepherd 18 дней назад

@@grr-OUCH That feels pretty simplistic. Not everyone went into battle with a zweihander or no dachi, and standard issue for modern soldiers are fairly light rifles, not LMGs or anti-material weapons. And that's in an actual war. People just walking through town probably don't want the attention the biggest possible weapon would attract. There are tons of reasons various weapon sizes have always had their niches. But it would be kind of lame to saddle someone who wants to play Big Weapon Guy with all the real disadvantages of carrying his big axe around. Why, then, would we insist the disadvantages of small weapons should remain while waiving the disadvantages of the big ones?

@grr-OUCH 18 дней назад

@@TheRamblingShepherd I agree, there should be rules for the amount of space the weapon takes. Most games have ignored it. That goes into why a SMG is better in close quarters than a rifle. Where I was going is that many people like to give the agile fighter with a knife equality to, if not superiority to, a warrior with a sword. In some cases it makes sense, but usually what they do is give benefits that occur all of the time, and that is my issue. A knife is not equal to a sword, nor is it better.

@supersam5802 8 месяцев назад

Really liking the direction overall, can’t wait to see how this turns out

@robertlavallee8358 8 месяцев назад

The 4 AP reminds me of Divinity Original Sin which is a nice system!

@ZorgoXorgon 8 месяцев назад

That's what I was thinking! And with BG3 out now, I saw some lamenting the loss of the AP system since they're now being bogged down by "spell slots" from 5e. Simpler is sometimes better.

@gregdinkelman420 8 месяцев назад

@@ZorgoXorgon The DOS system is 4 AP. BG3 is a standard action and a bonus action. The spell slots aren't the difference in action economy. Spell slots in BG3 are replaced with countdown timers in DOS. Remember when everyone said 4E was "video gamey" (mostly because stupid internet pig piles, but I digress)? Put spells on a timer and that's video gamey. Literally. Tell people in a D&D-type game that they can only cast a heal spell every 4 rounds, and you've got more problems than with spell slots.

@tmzFRM 8 месяцев назад

@@gregdinkelman420 you also get an even worse martial caster divide, and a lot more tracking to do. DOS is THE GAME that made me realize I could enjoy games. It's fantastic, and DOS2 was my favorite game until BG3. But cooldown system only works for dos because any game will be invariably more determined than a TTRPG - and also: one-shoting the bbeg in dos feels fun, but at a table is an evening ruined.

@CL-jq1xs 4 месяца назад

@@tmzFRM give martial skills like dos2 did. Then just balance the martial skills and spells. The problem with martial is that all it can do is "Attack" a simple hit action.

@CL-jq1xs 4 месяца назад

@@gregdinkelman420 as simple as making it limited to how many cast per encounter. Not much difference from tracking spell slots or skills that have limited use on short rest really.

@TheBlackZodiacGhost 8 месяцев назад

This is the first non-D&D system I would consider actually picking up, due to its simplicity and clear rules layout. Don't get me wrong, I love other systems from an aesthetic/thematic point of view, but since I'm a forever DM/GM I really don't like cumbersome systems like PF2, or systems with vague rules/time-consuming interactions like the World of Darkness. This seems both very familiar, meaning it would be easy for me to switch to from 5e, and yet more streamlined, balanced, and most importantly fun.

@aevum6667 7 месяцев назад

Its far more cumbersome to have a system with no reference for what happens in X scenario. PF2e plays much more smoothly on the DM side then 5e.

@TheBlackZodiacGhost 7 месяцев назад

@@aevum6667 only if you have the gazillion extra interactions by memorized by heart. If not, you will need to look stuff up, instead of making a ruling that just makes sense for that particular interaction.

@aevum6667 7 месяцев назад

@@TheBlackZodiacGhost DnD and Pathfinder both say you can make rulings when you need to keep narrative flow. Despite common misconception DnD does have many cumbersome rules, they are just often regarded so poorly by people who actually know the rules that they are not used, like the stealth rules. PF2e meanwhile has a free searchable database to find rules quick and easy while still having the flexibility of making on the spot ruling significantly you wish to do so

@TheBlackZodiacGhost 7 месяцев назад

@@aevum6667 difference of perspective I guess. PF objectively has more rules and interactions that are used often, whereas D&D has less rules, but they're unfortunately also less well-defined.

@aevum6667 7 месяцев назад

@@TheBlackZodiacGhost In reality what that means is in DnD you are forced to make rulings. Then, if you want to be consistent and fair, you need to remember those rulings. AKA the work for making the rules is out onto YOU as a DM rather then on the game design.

@emproficecream 8 месяцев назад

I love this! It feels like it takes the winning ideas from 5e and pathfinder 2e then sinplfys them packages it in a clean presentation. It's exactly what I've been looking for!

@liaminal4934 8 месяцев назад

I think a passionate design team goes a long way toward making a game players want to engage with. Definitely shows here

@Mortalkainen 8 месяцев назад

This system is super fun to play, I've dm'ed a little over 25 hours so far and it's been amazing! One of the things that keep popping up is that the combat and encounters turn out to be like epic cinematic scenes.

@boldnotbald3705 8 месяцев назад

Thank you for making this video. I’ve been following DC20 since the beginning but it’s incredible to see someone with such an eye for optimization and balance pick it up and point things out! I love and use all your guides for 5e, it’s awesome to see you try this one out and get excited for it!!

@ComradeVenus 8 месяцев назад

Oh wow, this is such an incredible system. I am super intrigued!! The elegance of this system and the bold ideas make me really excited for this! Please continue to make videos on this system, I am so excited to see what they are going to do

@jinxtheunluckypony 8 месяцев назад

The action point system seems really cool. I love the option to burn an action to get advantage on a clutch roll.

@mrmuffins951 8 месяцев назад

I’m really excited about this! It sounds like it might actually be that “5e but better” system that Kobold Press was going for before they put so much effort into being different that it looks unrecognizable. Plus, the parity will make my OCD very happy 😊.

@TheDungeonCoach 8 месяцев назад

Love it! Thanks Mr.Muffins!!

@AtelierGod 8 месяцев назад

It was likely their lawyers coming to them and telling them to make it more different so that WotC can’t sue them for stealing their system.

@brianj.841 8 месяцев назад

Agree; so far this looks very interesting and playable.

@hawkname1234 8 месяцев назад

@@AtelierGod That's not how it works. Rules mechanics are not IP. And the content was all put into the Creative Commons.

@AtelierGod 8 месяцев назад

@@hawkname1234 yeah months after they started development, and yes rules can’t be copyrighted but wording can be and that’s where they get you.

@Zagarth12 8 месяцев назад

Sounds great. Man, 4e was ahead of its time. This has a handful of similar features. Love it!

@ferencfeher2647 8 месяцев назад

When you explained the parallel between casters and martials, I had flashbacks to 4e where everyone had the same system but different names.

@hawkname1234 8 месяцев назад

Me, too. And not in a good way.

@ferencfeher2647 8 месяцев назад

@@hawkname1234 agreed

@AtesSu2006. 8 месяцев назад

İts not good

@pheralanpathfinder4897 Месяц назад

That's why 4e was balanced. It's hard to balance a system when some classes only do damage while others have super powerful effects.

@dankrue2549 8 месяцев назад

Now I really want a video on Level Up's A5e, or at least to hear some thoughts on it. It seemed really good, but I've seen almost no one cover it at all. Anyway, great video, neat system, and thanks for your contributions to the community!

@MagiofAsura 8 месяцев назад

The heightned player engagement is what excites me. Players can act on pretty much anyones turn with reactions.

@jfalvo 8 месяцев назад

I'm stoked for this immediately. I love that the prime attribute is used for the main "attacks." I love the concept of an unarmored Dex paladin using a rapier and being agile and quick, or an intelligence based fighter, both of which are character ideas I have for 5e. I will definitely be checking this out for future campaigns.

@jard97 8 месяцев назад

I like the idea of grit and will saves if they are ued sparingly: if they are only used for really powerful monster abilities, it provides a way to balance monsters, ensuring that no character is using their lowest ability against a very debilitating effect. Edit: This is just an idea without seeing the system: this may be obsolete depending on how saves are already balanced.

@eddieblanton2981 8 месяцев назад

We are replacing Fortitude (physical) and Grit (mental) with a "pick Might or Agility" (physical) and "pick Charisma or Intelligence" (mental) since it accomplishes the same thing without adding 2 new types of Saves. It also let's you pick which Save to use when you have situational bonuses that may apply to one but not the other.

@andrewthomascochran 8 месяцев назад

@@eddieblanton2981 That's a great change! It forces you to think about how your specific character might face a challenge, and - if ya wanna - lets you RP the specific way you attempt the save.

@TheRealZiktus 8 месяцев назад

@@eddieblanton2981unless I missunderstand what you are saying, don't you still run into the problem that Chris brings up in this video this way? That if you want to get more bang for your buck when it comes to making your saves, it's best to make sure you have 1 good physical score and 1 good mental score?

@eddieblanton2981 8 месяцев назад

@@TheRealZiktus no, because in the new method Saves are treated differently. Things that would have been a Fortitude Save now roll into Might, and Grit is split between Charisma and Intelligence. The 4 Saves are more balanced, so when we ask you to make X Save or Y Save it's truly a narrative choice in most cases.

@TheRealZiktus 8 месяцев назад

@@eddieblanton2981Thanks for the reply. I'll keep an eye out for this system as it sounds very promising and I'm curious to see it all in play at the table!

@GlenFinney 8 месяцев назад

There’s just a great clarity when you analyze things, Treantmonk. Thank you!

@OldManYells 8 месяцев назад

Seeing lots of similarities here with PF2e, especially the remaster, but with a ton of really cool innovations and streamlines. Very intrigued!

@dinkleberg684 8 месяцев назад

The attribute system is interesting. Reminds me of how Pillars of Eternity did attributes

@dylanstoudt6499 8 месяцев назад

Yes, I immediately thought of josh sawyer talking about how not taking an attribute above the baseline of 10 didn't mean you were penalized for doing so.

@kenkoopa7903 8 месяцев назад

The damage system also reminds me of Pillars of Eternity, that's the exact system used for that game with crits.

@dylanstoudt6499 8 месяцев назад

yeah, the more I heard the more I thought of it haha@@kenkoopa7903

@deanstavru7138 8 месяцев назад

😮 Was not expecting that!!! Have played more than 20 different systems, but this actually has the basis to be the best one. Great work to both of you and will be looking forward for the final product!

@Wolvesofthenight 8 месяцев назад

Awesome video! I'm already a big fan of DC20 and I love seeing other channels talk about it!

@sspectre8217 8 месяцев назад

Still haven’t finished but I like what I’m seeing. I’m very excited about how Attributes work, I’ve played a few characters with great concepts behind them that were awkward at best to pilot in 5e because of ability scores being so rigid in their use. Edit 1: I really like the action economy, I think it’s far more intuitive than 5e and a smaller improvement on Pf2e. It’s really nice that your character could fight more proactively/action focused or more reactive/reaction focused, it gives the option for very interesting class/subclass designs and could be used to reflect character development. Edit 2: I’m glad they are also using something more intuitive for spells and properly addressing the martial-caster divide by introducing techniques and stamina. Also spell evolution is pretty cool, gives me the feeling of some cool RPGs that have large intricate skill trees.

@500gmatt6 8 месяцев назад

I miss the big changes. They were good ideas.

@TheDungeonCoach 8 месяцев назад

Thanks dude!

@LuizCesarFariaLC 8 месяцев назад

One thing that could balance more the small weapons is to decrease the number by which damage increases in the attack roll

@selthafour6948 8 месяцев назад

If you look at the properties on the table, weapons that deal 1 damage have little to no benefit over weapons that deal 2. They seems to be made as starting weapons that players are meant to shed, so they don’t really need to be balanced.

@andrewschouten6166 8 месяцев назад

I was just thinking recently about how to balance a house rule that ties damage to the hit roll instead of being a separate roll - I'm excited to see how it plays out in your system

@pederw4900 8 месяцев назад

I’d love to see more about this system!

@mateofantasma 8 месяцев назад

This DC20 game is full of brilliant ideas. The "Attack roll is the damage roll" and static damage values is pure genius. The action economy is also a very interesting idea. Modifiers being the attributes I think is the way to go and I am actually very disappointed with WotC that they did not do it that way for the remaster they are doing. Also, having Chris here provide feedback for balance in a game at the early design stage is a great move. Treantmonk is the kind of person I would want look into my game if I was designing anything. I am going to keep an eye out for this game. Thanks for sharing!

@linkatronic 8 месяцев назад

Love to see your comments on DC20! I've been loosely following its development and I am very excited to see how the Alpha goes!

@drachimera 8 месяцев назад

This video was great! I am still on the fence about this system … the primary question is can we play adventures and does the system fall away and we forget about it in the game? It’s great that the system is simple! The goal isn’t the system, it’s the story. Modules like curse of strahd are just so amazing! It’s important to build one or two adventures at the same time as the rules so that you can test the system at different levels and ensure that once you know the system, it falls away and the story flows and is exiting! 5e did that right. Simplifying spells is one thing I am exited about as looking up spells and abilities absolutely slows down the story!

@rockstaa13 8 месяцев назад

This system looks amazing , simple and fun. I am going to look forward to this. I will be investing time into this one. Thanks for showcasing it Chris! Also just finished the rest of the video and i would think i speak for a lot of people. I would love to see a series on this system.

@denniswebster1048 8 месяцев назад

This feels like such a breath of fresh air! I love the Action Point Enhancement system and the idea of action points in general. I can think of so many times, where I am out of spell slots, leaving me to "only" cast one cantrip and move.

@BobMcDowell 7 месяцев назад

Every 4 over the target number has been a Raise in Savage Worlds for decades. So much for "I have never seen this before".

@DHAnsgar 8 месяцев назад

As someone that absolutely loves the PF1 Psionic style casting (more mana more oomph) and the Path of War style Maneuvers.... this all sounds absolutely fantastic. Im going to keep an eye on this for sure.

@Canadian_Princess 8 месяцев назад

I dunno if I'm completely sold on the system quite yet. I do like a lot of the ideas in it and the ability to use a resource to adjust spells is really neat. Definitely will keep an eye on it.

@-Xabash- 8 месяцев назад

This system has come a very long way since I had looked into it last. Some neat work here.

@sesimie 8 месяцев назад

The Coach & Treantmonk Collabs have changed the way I DM. Loved their previous ideas on class specific rolls with inspiration. This is doing Yeoman service to D&D 5e players/DMs

@TheDungeonCoach 8 месяцев назад

That makes me so happy to hear!

@TreantmonksTemple 8 месяцев назад

Thanks so much!

@jimrichmond1457 8 месяцев назад

This sounds great. Please keep us up-to-date. Even if I can't convert my group, I still want to buy a copy when it releases to support good game design and cool ideas.

@minimoose7890 8 месяцев назад

I was excited, too, and I'm excited that you're excited. I hope that he gets good testing feedback to keep improving and polishing this

@evanbosco2380 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for the breakdown Treantmonk! I've been a big fan of your work for a long time. Many of your thoughts were reflections of my comments internally; it was fun to see those mirrored here to effectively. Much love from the whole TDC family and everyone involved. We're all thrilled you've enjoyed the work so much. Stay awesome! We look forward to any more details and suggestions you care to share.

@Jason-96 8 месяцев назад

DC20 rocks. And I just have the Alpha 0.4. DC20 is the new game I'm looking forward to. It's going to replace D&D for me...

@AlexanderBaird 8 месяцев назад

I just got the alpha and I’m going to POUR through the documents! I loved 5th edition, and now I love PF2e even more, and this strikes me as such a perfect way to take all the things I love about each and makes it something you could teach in a single session to a completely new player. Great work @TheDungeonCoach and thanks for spotlighting this @Treantmonk’sTemple! I’m excited to dive in and see it for myself

@AndrewBrownK 8 месяцев назад

really cool looking system I don’t think I agree with “Charismatic dainty bard gets +7 to greatsword”. I understand there are some benefits to the freedom, but you have to draw lines and put constraints somewhere, or it’s all flavor soup without mechanical distinction. It seems like the martial/caster classification is better in this way, but that’s my point. If a -1 Might +7 Charisma character can use Charisma to swing a greataxe, then why can’t they do a technique or maneuver either? At the end of the day I really like multi-classing, getting to pick and choose the good bits of various routes, instead of “playing the same exact fighter/monk/barbarian/etc as everyone else”. So I think my advice from this preference is this: In between “only class/attribute X can do Y” and “any class/attribute can do this” is “class/attribute X correlates with Y” (like 5e weapons), and I think that’s a good thing, not a bad thing. Another issue I see is out of combat and social situations. If we haven’t rolled initiative, are not taking turns, and time is fluid… why won’t I use quadruple advantage on every single check? Want to jump over that chasm? Quadruple advantage. Want to persuade the courtier? Quadruple advantage. It’s a really fun idea to spend AP to stack advantage, but when there is low demand/pressure for your AP, all skill checks are going to become a mushy indistinguishable soup of quadruple advantage and attribute choices hardly mattering at all.

@foolycoolytheband 8 месяцев назад

This system sounds so cool, I had a lot of similar ideas in my own attempt to make a system but could never figure out a good way to put the ideas to paper so needless to say this has got me hyped

@Wyrmshield 8 месяцев назад

Seeing a lot of stuff here that I've been doing in my own system experiments. Action points, tiered skills, combat mods not based on fixed attributes, etc. Glad to see these ideas are being received well

@jamesruggiero757 8 месяцев назад

Woah..... That stacking adv / disadv concept.... that is glorious!!!

@indigoblacksteel1176 8 месяцев назад

Yeah, I'd be curious to know if it'll become too cumbersome. I think WOTC did what they did, so players wouldn't have to try to find all possible sources of advantage and disadvantage and add them all up to discover that their 7 advantages and 3 disadvantages yield quadruple advantage, or whatever. I think all of us will agree that throwing an oversized spear at long range at an invisible opponent who is dodging should be a little harder than any of those elements by themselves, or the fact that you can cancel all that out by just taking Steady Aim is just dumb.

@pheralanpathfinder4897 Месяц назад

I'm not a fan. It reminds me of stacking buffs and debuffs in 4e.

@Rondez 8 месяцев назад

I think I am sold on the notion that we don’t need so many damage dice in the way that D&D has done it for so long. The base damage for spells is really interesting when paired with damage dice for *other* modifiers

@jf649 8 месяцев назад

Great ideas. Thanks to both of you.

@datonkallandor8687 8 месяцев назад

This is very much a combo of 4e (martials and casters on even footing in terms of activities they can do, tactical combat assumed, standardized conditions), Pillars of Eternity (all attributes are good for every class, hit roll determines damage) and Pathfinder 2e's action system (although improved upon - reactions being actions you spend in advance is quite interesting). All in all a very cool system, although it would run headfirst into OGL issues just like 2e did so there would have to be a deep remaster of game terms.

@kurtoogle4576 8 месяцев назад

I'm seeing innovations on a lot of my favourite parts of systems I love, making a game that feels familiar yet refreshingly new. I look forward to seeing more!

@briant7134 8 месяцев назад

The hit/damage scheme is something that I’ve seen in other indie RPGs (none d20 based) and it’s nice to see that such ideas are making their way into the D20 space. Definitely will be following this project

@juamibenito2558 8 месяцев назад

YESSSSS my favorite optimancer getting to analyze DC20 rpg!!! looking forward to seeing all your reactions to the system (i haven't bought it myself yet, i have neither the time nor the play group to try atm but the dungeon coach's design videos that ive watched have gotten mi more excited for it than ALL other systems ive seen so far, that 4-point action/reaction economy is brilliant and the stamina + mana + action-point meta-magic/meta-attacks resource system is so creative!)

@catshitonthecarpet8520 8 месяцев назад

Some really great ideas in DC20! Looking forward to seeing more on it

@diagnosisninja 8 месяцев назад

17:12 damage - I kinda like this, as it's the opposite of MCDM's plan to effectively only use damage dice and phase out the missing 1/3 times (this is interpretive, don't take it as a quote). I think it probably influences monster design quite a lot, and also helps with the Minion design MCDM have put in place with their content to deal with swarms of enemies - smaller enemies with less armour and health get hit harder more often. I think it needs the math range to be quite exact. The problem I imagine with it would be having a numerical range which avoids missing 1/3 of the time, but also makes it possible to really hit something hard. But, very interesting if it is done right!

@derekseaton4412 8 месяцев назад

The Cortex system used for Serenity/Firefly did a similar version of damage output. Instead of +1 per tier of over 5, the damage was EQAUL to the number over what you rolled. A brutal ruthless and deadly system

@EugeneGM1 8 месяцев назад

Something about this made me think of this for D&D: If you are proficient with a weapon, it deals an additional damage die at 5th, 11th, and 17th level. Anyways, thank you for giving us a breakdown of DC20! I'm quite intrigued.

@pheralanpathfinder4897 Месяц назад

That's a great way to balance against cantrip power ups. Just don't let it stack with booming/ green flame blade

@amulrei8149 8 месяцев назад

This certainly seems interesting and has potential. I hope you run more videos on the system as the lack of a playtest version makes it impossible to gauge how the system really plays without dropping money on it. I am intrigued but it's hard to actually find much in the way of information on the system.

@jamesroe2846 8 месяцев назад

I wasn't looking for a new system, but DAMN! This sounds really well put together.

@clenzen9930 8 месяцев назад

I enjoyed this video way more than I thought I would. Really good.

@Wyrmshield 8 месяцев назад

The problem with mana is that it encourages you to find the most efficient ratio of damage to resource and use that as often as you can, and doing non-combat things that cost mana feels bad because its eating away at the same resource you use for combat. As complicated as they may be, spell slots do partially get around this by having each level effectively be it's own mana pool. You can cast adventure stuff like invisibility and charm person without having to worry about losing out on casting fireball because each of those spells all draw from their own different pools of mana. It's still not perfect since other spells in each level are competing against each other, but it's much nicer than every single spell in your list having to compete against each other.

@phillipheaton9832 8 месяцев назад

I already picked up the Alpha edition and it appears to be a great start. I'm really looking forward to Beta!

@Chrandreas 8 месяцев назад

An alternative to getting rid of Physical & Mental Saves would be to have them be a summation of their two attributes, rather than just the highest of the two. Then you can to choose to specialise on one or partially covering both.

@Chrandreas 8 месяцев назад

Though that would mean that people's Physical & Mental saves would be higher than 3 at level 1. I dunno how that affects balance.

@ballen_at_mit 7 месяцев назад

@@Chrandreas Sum of the two divided by two rounded up is the solution. 3 and 2 give you a 3 in the combined and 0 and -1 give you a zero whereas 3 and 0 only give you 2 and 2 and -1 will give you 1. Thus if you want your 3 and 2 to be in physical you get a boost for physical saves at the cost of mental saves, unlike the current system where it really pays to have a 3 in physical and a 2 in mental (or vice versa). Hopefully this makes sense? I feel like I've explain it poorly, but basically sum and divide by two rounded up takes all the advantages of summing of them but keeps the final save value within the same limits of the individual attribute saves.

@Chrandreas 7 месяцев назад

@@ballen_at_mit Yeh, I get what you’re saying, but that still only postpones the same problem till the attributed level up. Now the mental & physical saves are behind instead, since the average cant get up to 4 (i.e., 4+2 or 3+3, over 2) when the maximum attribute does.

@Chrandreas 7 месяцев назад

Now I’ve been drinking, but the more I think about it, the more i agree that Physical & Mental should just be removed. They’re impossible to fit in, in the same way that the other mechanics do. They just force character creation without adding anything to justify it that I can see. Though it might simplify some DMing, one could still come up with scenarios where a ‘mental’ check’ could also be argued to be a ‘strength check’ for example. So just ask DMs to make the call and streamline the math and rules

@pheralanpathfinder4897 Месяц назад

That worked well in 4th edition. Many great innovations in 4th edition were discarded because the overall system wasn't popular.

@brentwatts6045 8 месяцев назад

This looks very interesting and I’m excited about it. Full disclosure I have not read the entire alpha yet, but I’m wondering how you see this fitting in with published adventures? I love DM made adventures but the reality is that we don’t all have the time and I know with our group we are almost always falling on published stuff. It would be great to see a conversion guide that isn’t more work than making your own.

@TheLogicMouse 7 месяцев назад

Thanks for this video! He's got another sale of the Alpha from me, and interest in the KS as well, and I might never have heard about it without you.

@ivanpenz8780 8 месяцев назад

Awsome ideas, wow. I'll be checking it out

@mikecarson7769 7 месяцев назад

thank you so much for sharing . . . this system looks amazing!

@jspsj0 8 месяцев назад

very happy to see this. my two favorite RU-vidrs joining forces

@TheDungeonCoach 8 месяцев назад

Thanks for that! Was awesome so see a RU-vidr that I have watched for years before I was even a RU-vidr jump in on my system!

@razorfate1007 8 месяцев назад

Definitely interested in the system, will follow the coach from now on

@rubenhoelz1464 8 месяцев назад

Sounds like a great system, thanks for the overview!

@alexanderwizardjar9540 8 месяцев назад

really cool video, def gonna keep an eye on this!

@4Nooby4 8 месяцев назад

Wow! A bold saying. but I am very much agree with you on this one. So glad to hear it from you

@galaxyfoxnightsky2042 8 месяцев назад

I ove your video and dive into martials hope too see a video on casters in DC20 ❤ Defently exited for DC20 cant wait too see more

@FablesD20 8 месяцев назад

Super clean and exciting!

@Wintermute909 8 месяцев назад

Sounds really, really, really awesome!

@Sangtrone 8 месяцев назад

For weapon damage, it might be better to start a 2 and go up to 5. This keeps the variety but caps the top end at 2.5x the low end. This also leaves room for the pity party glancing hit where you roll say 5 under target but still do 1 damage. Obviously need to sprinkle more hit points around.

@haukionkannel 8 месяцев назад

This is actually a good idea or go from 4 to 6 to make difference even smaller and also closer to what one attack in D&D does, wothout going too high and stupendous high hitpoints to compensate. But 2 to 5 or 3 to 6 both seems reasonable balanced!

@arkryder1421 21 день назад

This is a 7 month old comment but What if they just made it so 1 damage weapons don't get disadvantage for multiple hits. You wouldn't get disadvantage on a 1 damage weapon. Until hit 3 or 4. Making it do less damage but be a more reliable damage source.

@matthewconlon2388 8 месяцев назад

“Rolling for damage takes extra time” so he replaces it with: -roll to hit -subtract target defense from roll -divide result by 5 -add result to base damage Or your bonus is n, target defense is y, roll for x, your base damage is w Combat is [(x+n)-y]/5 + w Vs 5e which is just adding numbers together, maybe you divide in half for resistance.

@DRivi93 8 месяцев назад

Vastly over complicated it, but sure...? Rolling to hit happens in both. Hit the goblin with 12 AC. I roll a 15. My sword does 2 damage. I roll a 15. My sword does 1d6 +3. Neither take that long, but it's hilarious to say it's "so hard"

@pheralanpathfinder4897 Месяц назад

This system works best with all of most attacks having the same base damage. Make everything do 1 point of damage per point of success.

@melchiorkaczmarzyk5165 8 месяцев назад

I love the stamina system, I my jaw literally dropped when it was explained, but I'm not sure stamina is a perfect name for something regained after taking a heavy hit or finding a hidden creature. Focus maybe?

@efg-smca 8 месяцев назад

Focus is mental. Why not stamina? Barbarians gets adrenaline when hit, ranger gets adrenaline when "hunting" successfully. It seems like a cool unique trait that barbarians have more stamina in a fight when taking a heavy blow. It wakes them up! Seems cool.

@melchiorkaczmarzyk5165 8 месяцев назад

@@efg-smca It's not convincing to me that someone who is tired by battle (low on stamina) suddenly regains strength (stamina) by *being hit hard*. It's an event causing an extreme stress on the body, so it doesn't make sense for the physical quality to be replenished by it in my opinion and anyone who was hit in a fight before would agree I think. However it makes sense to me for someone senses, mind and instinct to be sharpened when situation becomes dire and death is closer. Regaining stamina for finding a hidden creature or dealing a lot of damage makes more sense then for taking a hit, but i think the sense of accomplishment and morale resulting in those feats would be better represented as a more emotional or mental quality, such as focus. After all, especially in DC20, there is nothing wrong with giving mental qualities to martial classes

@haukionkannel 8 месяцев назад

Inspiration? Focus Cunning

@efg-smca 8 месяцев назад

I grew up in the NYC metal & hardcore scene, and I knew people who would punch themselves in the face as they got ready to lose their minds in a mosh pit as the main act took the stage. Based on my sense of the D&D barbarian & tales of berserkers in Icelandic sagas, it works for me, but it's all about verisimilitude & that explanation works for me. but seems like an easy thing to homebrew. ;) @@melchiorkaczmarzyk5165

@tegxi 8 месяцев назад

this guy read my private notes and my mind, took all my ideas for a ttrpg system, and made them a thousand times better. Wow. I will definitely be supporting this!

@garethhamilton1252 8 месяцев назад

The problem I have with all these alternative rules is what additional support is there to the core system. Are we getting a monster book? A campaign setting with adventures? Lore books? Magic items etc,etc,etc. or can we just plug in and play say Rime of the Frost Maiden using DC20? Without additional support for a system, my work as a dungeon master is increased many fold because I have to create everything from scratch and as you can imagine that is a massive disincentive for me to pick up these rules.

@LuxTheSlav 8 месяцев назад

In all my time with 5e (which has been my only TTRPG, to be fair), any time I've come across a potential competitor, I had an aversion for one reason or another. But not this one. This is the first time I'm genuinely excited to see where it goes. I'm considering buying it and running my next campaign in DC20 instead of 5e.

@danielbeshers1689 8 месяцев назад

Maybe the really hard hitting weapons should start with disadvantage to balance their much higher damage.

@haukionkannel 8 месяцев назад

Then 2 point weapon use one action point for one extra damage and 3 point weapon user use one action point to make adwantage to remove disadwantage so when using 2 action points… they are exactly the same… so not sure if this is a good idea.

@mattdahm4289 8 месяцев назад

Thanks Treantmonk!

@Conrad1013 7 месяцев назад

I REALLY like the concept of increasing your outcome depending on how well you rolled against your objective, or being able to go "all-in" with your actions to increase your odds...it's baked in RP value when your sword hits someone for 3 damage, it's a deep cut or a long gash instead of a nick....or you caved in a section of their armour with a mace. I wish this was a multi-hour long talk, I got lost in this video and enjoyed every moment. This system sounds fun and exciting for people like myself who just lose interest in D&D for mechanics that seem cumbersome, or just punishing and lack luster, when they should be fun and exciting. 10/10 would play.

@bobrown4609 8 месяцев назад

Love these changes. This is all showing great game design skills. Anyone interested, investigate the Shadowrun combat mechanics. That game is a little over designed, but armor, dodge, hit and damage numbers are extremely cool. My favorite hit/miss system I’ve encountered.

@wmdavidhamilton 7 месяцев назад

One idea I love is the idea of assigning a point value to each cool thing a Class can do. For example...give Rage 3 points. For Manifest Echo...give it a value of 4. Surprise Attack? Smite? Give each one a value. Same for Feats. Each Feat should be given a point value. Crusher? GWM? Fey Touched? Some are more valuable than other. Give each character an amount of points. The can get Pole Arm Master and Sharpshooter and Resilience. Would a person choose those? Probably not. But, you can have any combination of capabilities. Want Twilight Sanctuary and Lucky? If you have the points, you can have them.

@bolverko 7 месяцев назад

Wow! I like a lot of the ideas in this. I will definitely be giving this system a closer look. Your insight into game design and balance are so valuable, I am very excited the Dungeon Coach is receiving feedback from you. I think it will make the system all the stronger. Does this mean we might actually get a decent monk? XD

@condimentking3395 8 месяцев назад

This seems to be exactly what I was looking for in a new system. As much as I liked pathfinder, I felt it missed some things I really enjoyed from 5e. This seems to be a middle ground that I was looking for while cutting the fluff I never liked anyway. I didnt need to be sold on getting rid of damage rolls at all lol