Either increase the damage output of physical ranged DPS jobs or enhance their support tools. It's ridiculous to see all three of them consistently at the bottom of the RDPS rankings.
The thing is every comp requires a physical ranged for the passive stat buff and for the rest of the party to play their burst off of during the buff window. Plus RDPS is what we care about, not DPS. It's not uncommon to see a class like Bard or Dancer with a gap of 3--4k between those numbers, so while say a Bard only does 15k DPS in the case of perfect play (almost humanly impossible for proc jobs) they still contribute up to 19k damage when we factor in how much more damage the other seven players take from them in the form of their buffs. Even machinist has a niche to fill in groups that have raid buffs on both melee DPS and the caster where the buffs of bard and dancer would be largely superfluous. BTW I made up those numbers off of just what I'm kinda seeing in my static after two weeks of prog. Anyone feel free to give accurate numbers if you wish, I think my point still stands.
@@loganrogers4560 I was, of course, referring to raid DPS. I find it absolutely staggering that there's a difference of more than 10% in raid DPS contribution to the disadvantage of a job whose primary identity is to buff the entire raid, compared to a selfish DPS like the Samurai or the Viper, for example. Not to mention that nowadays, almost every job can provide buffs or contribute to mitigation. In the end, what remains for them aside from the party bonus they bring, as you mentioned? Honestly, not much.
@@poidnet Have you ever done savage? You always need a phys ranged for not just the buff but also to resolve mecahnics in the most efficent way. No one is ever not going to bring one and a 10% gap isn't that big of a deal, and I don't even see that big of a gap in my logs. I play lots of bard, right now I'm pushing 16-17k DPS and 20-21k RDPS during perfect play with my group. The RDPS of our best melee is 23k RDPS, that's only like an 8% difference and well in line with what you would expect a ranged job to perform. Of the gulf in your RDPS as a ranged is noticeably large it's a skill issue. Are you buffs on time? Is your personal DPS low because you suck? Spend a couple hours on a target dummy and learn the 2 minute buff window. You're bitching about a no issue and the change you want would ruin the balance of the game
@@loganrogers4560 I've cleared the current tier, and since you've asked me a question, I'll return the favor: Can you name a single mechanic in this tier that specifically requires a physical ranged DPS? Exactly, none come to mind. Every mechanic can be handled just as effectively by a magical ranged DPS without any inconvenience. The only reason physical ranged DPS is brought into raids over a magical ranged DPS is for the party bonus. You can present any numbers you like, but the 10% difference in RDPS, according to FFLogs for 90th percentile players in the current tier, isn't a 'skill issue,' as you're implying. How would giving physical ranged DPS more tools to justify their lower damage output 'ruin the balance of the game'? Or, why not simply give them a buff to reduce the gap between them and other jobs?
@@poidnet I too could claim to have cleared the tier, even if I haven't. That doesn't make one an authority on anything. You have to think about people other than just yourself. Two casters will probably cost each other a GCD or two depending on fight mechanics because there isn't a clear movement priority there. It's a little thing but it's still something. Also you can't just look at the RDPS gap and ignore everything else that the party gains from bringing them or the ease of playability in the role If you understood all this you would know that phys ranged is overtuned this patch. They have 3.5-5k RDPS in just their buffs, lol. That's a 5k damage boost for pressing at most four buttons on cooldown... how is that not crazy to you? They're useful to the group even if they suck at the game. Just rez them for body checks and the 2 minute. No other role has that low of a skill floor. The only thing that makes them complex is the mental ban width required to properly utilize procs during perfect play and even then each mistake has a small impact on damage... sure every GCD and weave is a chance to screw up but those mistakes are very forgiven. I will admit that MCH is trash unless you have the rare case of both melee DPS and the caster being non greedy. Even in that case a Bard would be better, dancer less so since they don't have a greedy to simp over.
reaper would need a full rework if deaths design if it got removed, it helps with alignment and double enshroud. its one of the best made jobs in the game and honestly S tier, even if its less damage than sam and viper
@@mxdusza yeah, because it was over-tuned at launch and Samurai mains want to feel like they're doing the most damage. So they funneled over to Reaper
Rework? It would need one single regular length gcd ability that can be used during enshroud added, that’s it, other than potency that’s all you would be missing.
@@Nitegrip90 White Mages in Final Fantasy are the OG barrier healers with spells such as Protect, Shell, and Wall, and it's a crying shame those aren't in FFXIV. Hell, in 2.0, we had Protect/Pro-Shell and Stoneskin. My personal view is that Plenary Indulgence should get Pro-Shell added to the Confession buff. This would give WHM a 60 sec CD 10% party mit for 10 seconds. "Original Protect" (30 min duration) doesn't work with modern FFXIV design, but Pro-Shell as a 60 sec CD with 10% mit for 10 seconds WOULD, and tacking that onto Plenary would achieve this without even adding another button.
Viper being one of the heaviest hitting melee classes while also having ranged options that are even more optimal than Ninja for disengages (via Uncoiled Fury) is wild. Being able to save the stacks for mechanics like Alarm Phermones or Defamations in M2S is definitely giving it an edge over the rest in terms of melee uptime since it doesn't require those casts for burst phases.
@@asatowolfe this 100%. At first I thought VPR design seemed flawed or lazy but once I started raiding with it I realized how actually optimal it was, especially for stacking ranged spells for downtime phases. On other classes such as Ninja and Dragoon the timing has to be perfect not to mess up with your rotation and CDs, or you end up doing that awfully low dps ranged attack.
Meanwhile reaper has casted range attacks for some reason lol. They should just give reaper one usage of harvest moon for every enshroud and let it stack twice
They honestly need to update ALL animations.... BLM walking and running animations are soooooooo outdated... i want the walk/run with your weapon out animations to be the sprint animation and the sprint to be the super sprint from CC
@@kanick1983 The super sprint from CC and the Fall Guys event looks sooo good compared to what we have now. I wish they would just use that animation instead.
I hate how machinists walk with their guns, their sprint animation is better. Elezen walk and sprint cycles are still horrible. Animation improvements need to be on the list for 8.0
I love red mage because it's fun. I like the feel, the look, and the style. I accept that I do less damage than most. However, I will never agree with Summoner and Red Mage doing less damage because they have an ability that only comes into play when someone else makes a mistake.
I have a been a lover of Red Mages in any game I can play them in. The moment it came available to me in 14, that was my main. Towards the end of Endwalker, I got bored with it and found it to be kind of stale. The DT changes, even if minor, that Red Mage got were honestly so friggin good. The booster shot it needed. But the damage….the low damage takes away from that enjoyment. Seeing those huge numbers from Picto makes me want to take that job into content. Gimme some RDM boom damage! I want to casty blasty and slicey dicey evil doers into oblivion! Let me hit near 90k from a VerProc’d Double Cast!
I have a been a lover of Red Mages in any game I can play them in. The moment it came available to me in 14, that was my main. Towards the end of Endwalker, I got bored with it and found it to be kind of stale. The DT changes, even if minor, that Red Mage got were honestly so friggin good. The booster shot it needed. But the damage….the low damage takes away from that enjoyment. Seeing those huge numbers from Picto makes me want to take that job into content. Gimme some RDM boom damage! I want to casty blasty and slicey dicey evil doers into oblivion! Let me hit near 90k from a VerProc’d Double Cast!
@@biocajun86 Honestly every class dps is fine to class ALL content in the game so it's not a deal breaker. Play what you like. I'd rather have a RDM in my raid group honestly.
@@biocajun86red mage in every game its in always does less damage than its magic counterparts because it's more versatile. This is business as usual tbh
I main Dancer...and I honestly think ALL of the "supporter" roles need a DPS buff. When I see a Warrior come in and all but 2 or 3 shot a mob soloing while I take almost a full Standard Step timer to down one or more mobs....it just takes a little joy out of it.
For sure but Dancer and Bard has ALOT of utility. While machinist is a selfish DPS that just does terrible damage. No idea what Square was thinking with that choice?
Black Mage is a really nice gold standard for caster jobs. Its job identity is, functionally, King of Stone Sky Sea. If you can just stand still and do your rotation, it should be well ahead of the other casters in personal DPS. Having Picto surpass it on The Thing It Did while also doing six other crazy things was a clear sign that a rework needed to happen.
BLM has kinda evolved past the turret identity honestly, with so many on-demand instant casts such as triple casts, ice paradox, and xenoglossy, it'll often get more uptime than RDM in extremely movement heavy fights. As for PCT, I remember someone did the math when analyzing the highest parse runs for both PCT and BLM and BLM only casts about 4 seconds longer than PCT through an encounter. This math was done prior to savage dropping so things may have changed, but the amount of movement tools that PCT has seems to be about on par with BLM when accounting for things such as the shorter cast times.
@@Aki-Iji I play both in Savage and I can say with confidence, that BLM got some great movement tools over the years, but can't come close the the movement potential of PCT. You have to keep in mind, that PCT has recast downtime on most of their spells, where they can weave in OGCDs or just move. It's like that, because on most of their spells, their cast time is less than the recast time. BLM doesn't have that. Their Cast time = their recast on most of their hard cast spells. Except for say Blizzard III and fire III for swapping phases.
I dont think reaper's death's design needs much change as it stands right now because it allows for fitting two communios in an arcane circle buff since it is not closed off when entering enshroud. It aligns up pretty well and I don't think it hinders any gameplay. I personally have and probably will still continue to play reaper because of two main reasons: 1. It has raid buffs that are always a nice thing for groups, which also increases the potency of my plentiful harvest 2. It allows me to have a lot more focus on mechanics in a fight I am learning since it's pretty simple to play and doesn't have a ton of things to monitor aside from death's design and your arcane circle timer
The problem with the BLM vs Picto (or any selfish dps for that matter) is still the same, picto still has a tremendous amount of damage for how permissive and easy to use it is and for how much of an insane amount of utility it brings to the party: a raid damage buff, a personal shield that can be transformed into a raidwide shield, a heal, a kinda leylines and all of this on top of being probably the 2nd easiest caster after the summoner, meanwhile it's competing to be at the top of the charts or it is straight up at the top sometimes.
@@nampadaek BLM doesn't have one. RDM doesn't have one. SMN has one from Phoenix (and now Solar) which are 1 min apart. But good thing the other guy didn't say JUST the heal, right? I notice you don't contest any of the rest.
@@SubduedRadical RDM does have a heal, though if you're using it something has gone terribly wrong. It at least procs dualcast though, so it can be useful if you're doing chain resses.
@@Turksarama RDM doesn't have a party heal, my apologies. And its heal isn't an oGCD or free effect on something. Like imagine if using Embolden gave everyone Shake It Off's barrier and heal, that's closer to what PCT is doing. Anyway, the point was made, you can ignore it if you want, but...
I have to agree with your Tier List. SMN, DRK, & MCH either needs BIG BUFFS OR BIG Changes coming in 7.3 or later, but I guess the big changes won't happen until 8.0.
MCH feels rly good to play atm, literally just ramp up its damage to be up to par with other selfish dps. Having more damage for being melee/positionals is non argument when every boss is either size of the arena or uptime solving of mechanic is always possible.
@@Ez-pu4tl This was a completely fair argument in EW. But in Arcadion there's alot of mechanics that require downtime so no, the ranged tax needs to be in place or everyone will just go back to the land of 2.0 ie: 1 melee, 2 ranged phys, 1 caster which I'd argue is a much less fun meta. That said, MCH should be doing at least as much personal DPS as Ninja or Dragoon. Should be a good deal higher than other ranged jobs.
@@TimTh3Enchanter you mean the whole amount of 2-3 mechs in a fight that make u lose 1 gcd each? the ones that reduce melee damage by 0.2% in total? yeah sure, lets make ranged dps deal 15% less damage cuz they can hit the boss 5 more times than melee. Melee meta been there for over 9 years now and it's boring. For some reason melee circlejerking doesn't stop both by playerbase and devs. Just by looking at the new jobs this and previous expansion you can see this obsession that for some reason melee dps has to have 2x the amount of avalible jobs to play. Before you say "hurr its because there are 2 melees in each party", yeah because of a meta they created, the problem devs created. Ranged tax has no right to exist anymore and definitely has no right to be argued in favor of it when job like picto exists.
I honestly really love how MCH's "slow walking" cast feels in PvP, it feels like a good balance between the hard cast of gauss barrel and the run everywhere of, everything else. Hope they look at this as a way to balance ranged tax in the future.
Not if they changed other things too. You are small braining it and just thinking about DD. Or just thinking about it being removed. What If they kept it but made it 60 seconds?
@@polyrhythmz2620 but it doesnt tho, not really. Shadow of Death feels terrible to use and doesnt link to literally anything else in rpr kit. DD itsef as a debuff is fine -- its the application of DD that needs to be reworked. Make SoD ogcd, or make it so DD can be reapplied via other means and rpr would play insanely better. If youre worried about burst, ask youself this: why does enshroud have a cd? Thats another thing they could change. As it stands now, rpr feels incredibly disjointed to play.
Dragoon loosing one jump making the rotation rather feels clunky -- the skill CDs are all over the place that it's hard to keep them in sync. The flow is just too disruptive rather than smooth and the skill activation feels slow to respond. EW Dragoon is still the best IMO.
Why are they adamant about not letting MCH have higher damage? And if you're not going to let us hide the lunchbox then the least make unique models for it to match the gun. You manage to have a pallette to match each Picto brush? Bruh...
Honestly, MCH should be up there with PCT and BLM in the raw damage output. Being able to chuck a wrench every so often really doesn't make up for the abysmal damage.
idk, I'd put BLM in A or A- simply because it takes WAY more effort to play well than picto and picto having a raid buff. Thunderhead needs to go away and flare star needs to become instant or something else. It's far and away from Endwalker BLM.
@@MrCeltius I actually like the hard cast on flare star, the animation is nice. If anything is rather despair become instant cast so it felt like less of a scramble to get it off and give breathing room to cast flare star.
I honestly don’t think blm ist as of dt is any harder than picto, I would even say he’s easier, as all the big optimisations got removed and he can even move leylines
I'm still not sure why people dislike Reaper's Death's Design. It's not like the job has a traditional DoT. If you imagine Death's Design as being a DoT that you want to keep full uptime on; one where 10% of all damage dealt is passive damage over time, it makes more sense. It's very easy to manage if you're used to playing classes with DoTs. It's easy to keep uptime on it, too, since it fits perfectly in its rotation. No preparation or combo is required, unlike Samurai. Just a single button that doesn't break your combo. You can also press it twice to extend the duration to up to 60 seconds or refresh it before it drops off if needed. That's a very useful and easy to maintain tool.
ninja dmg numbers make me cry. To me ninja feels busier than viper despite the 1 apm difference because we need to actively set up burst 20 seconds in advance, keeping track of bunshin and ninki to ensure it remains on cd without drift/overcap, and blow our entire load in 20 seconds every minute. All that work to do the least dps of all melees xD I'm still riding the high from being top dps in EW once upon a time, I want to go back to the glory days haha
ninja is way busier than viper, I just started leveling it and it's so brain dead.. and of course doing almost nothing I i'm always top dps.. meanwhile ninja you need to make sure you use the right mudra, so you need to memorize all the different patterns, keep ranged attacks a bit for when you need to, manual target dash, Ten Chi Jin that you need to use at the right moment otherwise huge dps loss, and like you said bunshin, ninki, burst, you have so much to do that my keyboard is smoking after a fight, and the reward is the lowest dps .... i cant wait for the devs to finally understand how complex ninja can be compared to all the new class since Shb where you just press 3 buttons but you top dps.. that's so stupid... Yes I main ninja, and I think it's never strong enough for what it requires you to do compared to other braindead job like viper where you can almost top dps while sleeping using a drinking bird pressing keys on your keyboard... GIVE BETTER NINJA !
Unfortunately they dont balance jobs so much on difficulty or complexity of the job but what the job brings to the party. Ninja even though it is harder does bring a pretty strong raid debuff and viper has no raidbuffs i believe so in their eyes viper should do more personal damage. But i definetly agree with your frustration i used to main black mage a few years back and id be pretty annoyed if i still did right now because of how much easier and better picto is.
@@jacobpetryk4820you'd think that, but then black mage vs picto is well known. Machinist absolutely pulls the rug from under this argument and dark knight is also a huge question mark why is it the worst tank in every way and still the lowest dps. It's just bad balancing.
@@Decus86 ill agree the balancing could be better but just because machinist and dark knight could be in better spots doesnt change the fact that this is how they attempt to balance classes.
@@jacobpetryk4820 the point is that this approuch is only perceivable with melee dps. It does not hold true with casters, ranged or tanks, which makes the whole contribution aspect questionable. Even 7.05 while it buffed for example drk, still ended up as pushing pld above drk too while pld has far more of everything else already. Same as warrior
Why?? Because it’s always been that way? Maybe they should actually make the class fun again. Flare Star feels like a chore to press and it barely does more damage than Xenoglossy which you get passively and can cast on the move. If they made changes to it then the class would be amazing. As it is now, your bright shiny new 100 spell is a 3 second cast and you lose all charges for it after doing your natural rotation and switching to umbral ice. It’s a poorly misthought new spell in an age where raid movement and boss movement is higher than ever.
@@караул-щ4к Jesus man. BLM Is ahead of Picto in savage and normal in aDPS, and nDPS and is ahead of Picto in rDPS for normal and it only loses to Picto in rDPS for savage. Meanwhile VPR (which is probably the easiest melee to play now (RPR and it are tired imo) is number one in everything and it’s far less complex to play than either BLM or Picto and yet here you sit whining about Picto. You can’t make this stupidity up.
@@rngboys3031 As a tank player with no raid buffs to contribute i never understood the point of comparing stuff without them... take a warrior for example... a warrior using their inner release stacks on cd vs one holding them precisely for their burst windows so they fall in raid buffs will have the exact same rdps if all other variables are kept constant. Same with things like damaging gap closers that have multiple charges.
@@ravindrarambarran6177 its actually quite simple so as tank ur doing lets say 10k dps and get a boost from raidbuffs lets say 8% so logically ur doing 10.8k dps thing is these 0.8k dps dont rlly belong to you since ur getting these dps due to raidbuffs and those 0.8k dps are going to the rdps of the one which provides the raidbuff since ur not providing any raidbuffs rdps will always be lower than ur dps
I wonder how the tier list shifts if we don't look at raids, and focus only on Dungeons as the focus shifts from single bosses to mob packs and less coordinated groups.
@@_DarkMoves What about healing? I've always been scared to heal dungeons as the wall to wall pulls have extreme variances on how low the tank gets - sometimes it get scary. LOL
@Zn0nimus work in the mindset of not even having dps spells and focus all your casts on heals and its easy when you feel comfy weave in a lil cheeky dps and eventuallly you get it. it's really fun and lots of jobs are super friendly to get into
Healer balanace is so out of wack this expansion. WHM needs serious help, not because its bad, WHM is fine in isolation but because the other 3 healing options are just leagues ahead in utility and flexibility, especially on prog
WHM is bad simply because it lacks support. To really make an impact right now, you need support. To balance WHM, it would need to have a significant DPS advantage, which is not the case. It would need a real edge to justify bringing it, as shield jobs are simply mandatory due to their strength. The mitigation provided by Sage is so powerful that it justifies bringing it without raidbuff. Scholar is equally strong and provides solid and truly effective support, and Astrologian is top-tier. How could WHM ever be meta when other jobs offer a kit 10,000 times more powerful? The potency of healing spell has become irrelevant. Astrologian is picked because it is mobile and dramatically increases the DPS of others while being strong in DPS itself and better than WHM in every way. Why pick WHM when it is so lacking? WHM is like Machinist in the DPS role-there's no justification for playing it. Healers without support will simply never work if their kit is based purely on healing power rather than massive damage reduction. Sage is the only exception because its kit is strong for mitigation, and now some fights are doable without healers, like the last savage boss of this tier and Omega ultimate. It’s just that the overall game design makes healer balance terrible, and the design of jobs and roles should be completely reworked. Since Endwalker, it has been excessively poor to the point of being laughable.
But it's the beginner class. I hate that so much. Like by the time your level 70;you should know how to heal and all the healers are the same just do things differently. Like all my heal skills are in the same places on all the healers. Sch>whm>ast>sage for me in terms of difficulty. Ast has so many things I always feel like I have something where as whm I have to plan a lot more. Also ast casts faster so I can react faster if one of my healing skills doesn't pop that I forgot about xD New glare nourish the blood lilly. Assize 2x use. Lilly ogcd. Aoe aero back. Another mit. Is my wishlist.
Most people arent good at picto, so they are on the bottom of that chart, on the inverse, some of the best pct are crazy. Now anyone asking for nerfs is rediculous, let me explain ; To get those numbers you gotta be a decent picto to get them consostently in evrry fight. Whereas a viper or samurai does much less in terms of planning and prepping a fight yet pumps even harder with less effort. Picto is fine, give blm another 3% nochhi buff and give smn and rdm a lil boost because ranged tax is lame af
4:14 "and many people have been dissatisfied with the Dawntrail changes" Really? I had no idea that there were a lot of people who didn't like the changes. Me personally, I love it! I've been a Monk main since early access ARR and became a little bit more of a Gunbreaker main after that was introduced but I have never had a much fun with Monk before this. I even almost gave up on Monk in Endwalker but Dawntrail brought me back into it.
I agree, the buff and DoT removal is much better. The rotation during downtime still actually requires thought based off balls/stances, which I heard some ppl dont like. They want a simple downtime rotation to focus on mechanics. I personally like how engaging the rotation is during the whole fight. My only change would be casting Fire and Wind's reply should be on the Ogcd list
it's because every expansion they change monk and monk mains hate it. I'd normally throw Astro mains in there too but this is one of the unique times that they seem to love it
The complaints were real with MNK, especially at the beginning with the 123 ball stacks. The changes make sense with the amount of times you'd get screwed out of melee uptime, resulting in constantly dropping Demolish and Twin Snakes. Having played MNK throughout EW, even taking it in TOP over my main NIN, I'd say the changes are jarring and lead to a more rigid rotation but I've come to like it more than I did originally. As for the wind and fire replies, keeping them on the GCD works out better cos it allows you to keep your GCDs spinning while being out of melee range
same man I love what they did with monk! Although I wished they'd give a different animation to dragon kick because it always cuts off too early, looks so jarring
I think they've cracked it when it comes to the core rotation. Using different techniques to unlock higher potency strikes certainly *feels* a lot more Monk than babysitting a DoT and a buff. For me, though, the rest of the job is a bit lacking. The Chakra guage is a biiiig UI element, but amounts to just pressing an OGCD..like, they could remove the gauge and just have Enlightenment be an RNG proc ability. The Chakra gauge needs to be more integral to the Monk rotation, IMO, or they should remove it. They could make it the method for gaining the Solar and Lunar Nadi, the way it's explained in the Monk job quests. I dunno, have light and dark Chakras on the guage, and you're filling and spending them similarly to RDM's job guage. Just a thought. Overall, I'm really happy with what we gained in DT, but you compare us to Viper, which, nuances aside, looks familiar - a bit like they've taken all the old stuff Monk had and made a new job out of it - I want to see them differentiate the two classes more in the next expansion. Monk's identity was the one with the fast GCDs. Fast GCDs is no longer a solely Monk thing. So, what else? Give us something else.
I must say... my opinion on Solar Bahamut changed after Syndonic Scribe's lore video where he takes way to long to point out solar Bahamut is really based on Hydaelyn. It's a safer spoiler free way to use Hydaelyn without actually summoning her. But I dunno... I feel like it makes the rotation more consistent with the intention of Solar Bahamut always aligning with the 2 minute rotation, but it also just feels... Odd.
the only thing i would change on reaper is enshrouds cd. the burst window is so strict, it wouldnt even change much... but you wouldnt break youre 123 combo as easily if deaths design is only be needed once in pre arcane circle enshroud. its just clunky to alternate youre bursts based on clipping or not clipping lemure slice. which can happen from time to time even with the best internet
my 3 fav tanks are doing well, my fav DPS (SAM) is doing well, the 2 new jobs I wanted to try are doing well, my main healer Sage is doing well.... maybe it's time to resub? tho by the time I'll catch up to endgame I am fairly certain a couple of patches might turn things around hahaha
I agree death's design could be improved upon at the least. It being just a flat dmg increase but also giving you gauge per kill feels underwhelming. It could be some sort of festering dot, where after using enshroud the soul of the target erupts dealing bonus dmg in an aoe and gives you some gauge back. This would make it so you only use it before every enshroud or finisher.
Disagree on the tanks. Paladin S tier for utility kit and great damage. Gunbreaker is A+, probably the most balanced of the tanks. Warrior and Dark Knight at A tier, maybe DRK at A-, but not B. Warrior has more self-sustain but looking at aDPS, Dark Knight is the hardest hitting tank right now, so you do need some tradeoff there. Can it be better? Yes, but it's not as terrible as some make it out to be.
As much as I like GNB better aesthetically, PLD is my favorite Tank. Its rotation is the easiest to me, even easier than WAR (no gauge to track or self-buff to upkeep), the burst feels good to me, etc. But then it also has SO MUCH utility and even niche stuff like Cover or Clemency if you want to take it to the limits. I think it's a very good Job right now. My only (minor) issue with it is the button bloat is kind of intense. Having some buttons become others helps a little with this, but it's still got (I think?) the most buttons of any Job in the game, which can make for some piano playing moments.
i hope they raise the potency on drill/anchor/chainsaw to like 750 potency etc, so i can have more burst and stay relevant on dmg still during downtime
I genuinely hate losing spine shatter dive to that stupid dash. Just a bad taste in my mouth like losing plunge to shadowstride. I want MORE jumps not less.
It feels like physical ranged has an inherently easier time at the game compared to the other two DPS categories, as melees are more restricted due to having to stay close to the boss, and casters having to stand still sometimes. But, I am not sure how to solve this problem either... I also really like the Pictomancer design because it feels like the only DPS job where you primarily make meaningful decisions rather than primarily just follow a semi-fixed rotation.
The turret caster is a leftover stereotype from previous expansions. Even BLM has enough movement options that it's not really a problem anymore. Certainly not enough of one to account for the massive difference in DPS.
I really hope that when the inevitable Picto nerfs come in, they won't make it unplayable. I love the class aesthetically and that it's a relatively simple DPS with some party support. I agree it shouldn't have gotten the obscene damage it did, and it's a little sad to see so many people trashing on it because of that.
I would say prog is the only place where tier lists come into play. Once the boss is on farm people bring whatever they want to play. This puts things like RDM and SMN in S tier IMO.
Deaths design doesnt need to be removed persay, but there could be some tweeks to it. Like making it 60 seconds, or making it an actual dot... theres lots of suggestions. But removing it completely... probably not likely unless they move its benefits to other actions. Over all its a shitty skill because when you arent hitting the boss it isnt doing anything. But its a nice timer.
Never understood why the "support classes" are so far down on the list, when the support they offer is garbage. Coming from FFXI support classes offered massive uplifts fulltime, to the rest of the party, so it made since they were weaker. Here in FFXIV... 2%-3% that is nothing.
The classes had real support value in Haevensward and Stormblood. In truth, the mana regeneration/old PT for the Bard with its buffs made it essential, even top-tier, because the Machinist didn’t bring as much as the Bard did. Some jobs had piercing debuffs, or different buffs that came every 60 seconds like Ifrit’s Radiant Shield, which increased physical damage by 2% for 20 seconds and reset with each hit from the boss for 10 seconds, along with damage reflection. These were genuine support aspects that have completely disappeared. Now, classes have lost their real identity, and support jobs aren’t truly support anymore because melee classes provide as much support. To me, the damage increase buffs we get every 120 seconds to raise RDPS are simply too insignificant to justify a 10% DPS difference between so-called support classes and those that aren’t. Aside from resurrection, which has real utility, everything else isn't genuinely support. Melee classes also have 5% damage buffs, personal shields, regeneration, and damage reduction, yet they still deal 10% more damage. FF14 is simply very poorly balanced because support jobs have lost their identity. Support jobs should at least contribute as much or nearly as much to RDPS as melee classes. There shouldn’t be a difference
I went into a dungeon as a gnb the other day and the whm was just like “you’re good on your own while I glare down our enemies, ya?” lol, I was STRESSING. I believe I even used Aurora and HoC on some of the dps to keep them alive. They did use Benediction on me at one point, so there’s that. I was like “can you at least drop a regen on me?” Lol
@@biocajun86whm are always like that and they're goddamn annoying. I purposefully Superboilied myself at 25% because they literally make me double/triple dip in mitigation (drop me to less than 8k health) before they heal. And they always think they're clutch as well
@@DisappointedBuddha the problem is that you dont know whether they are clutch or just incompetent until they fuck up and you die so its safer to wastefully stack cds. it feels so much nicer playing with a shield healer in normal roulette content
@@DisappointedBuddhaAbsolutely wrong. WHM are doing what they are supposed to do. Just because GNB can't press buttons and instead roll their faces on the keyboard doesn't mean WHM is lacking. That's simply not true. Why do you think other blue classes are fine? Gee, I WONDER
What purpose do tier lists serve? Jobs excel in certain environments, and no environment outside of the sweatiest speedkill or world prog teams are going to ever care enough about "meta" to adhere to them (and those two tier lists would be vastly different, as well). I think they do more harm than good overall, but at the very least, a list should have its purpose (PF tier list? Optimization tier list?) stated clearly in the title. Not to mention tier lists should really be role relative; every party needs a phys ranged, but you may give people the wrong idea by placing all three of them in the bottom tiers.
I’ve really got into tanking, tried them all and was excited to try DRK and planned to work to get that sweet pantha mount… but after getting to to level 60 I didn’t see any point in playing it over warrior. I felt kinda guilty for the healers since DRK has hardly any sustain
Imo jobs sharing the same gear should get the same results in different ways. Viper and ninja shouldn't have gaps in their output, same goes for the other jobs. I mainly play as a dragoon and seeing reaper doing more damage just feels wrong. It just should be a choice of design, like "Do I want to dps hard swinging a scythe and have that stupid void creature looking over my shoulder?" or "Do I want to jump like an idiot while channeling lizard powers and use pointy stick?"
i want and need legendary weapons that adds me an additional thing like in ESO or WOW and really want class set bonusses that boost some core skills or add some passive damage animations or something. this is my biggest struggle in Ff14 and the only thing for me that REALLY annoy me
Dismantle isn't a game changer. Busters tanks can just invuln or CD through, and raidwides are completely survivable assuming your healers are at least halfway capable.
meanwhile in actual practice DRK is the highest dmg tank while people like this claim its the lowest... because the way the community likes to look at stats makes perfect sense and totally means something. DRK is fine in terms of damage and mitigation. Its tools are not the best and heck you can even argue they suck but they are good enough for the fights we have access to rn, and im fairly certain will continue to be good enough for the future. The class plays like a hollow shell that has a summoner level rotation. It FEELS bad to play. It is not at all, a bad class.
What are you talking about? FFLOGS is literally actual practice. It has the worse damage of all tanks and the worse mitigations. It's really simple as that.
@@RFKG interpreting fflogs is what im talking about. most people just look at rdps and use that for power ranking. Its the only way someone can say drk is the lowest dmg tank. It is the best one at dumping all of its resources into raid buffs so its adps is on average the 2nd highest behind gnb at the 50 percentile with the high end being quite a bit higher than even gnb. Defensively... yea its out dated but still functional. The only real area the job is genuinely struggling with rn is with actual playability. it plays like ass and is the actual most braindead class in the game rn. But it being unfun/boring to play is very far from saying its weak. Like im really not sure how you look at the tanks rn and say any of them are significantly above the others... theyr all within 100-200 dps of each other at the 50 percentile. If i had to rank them it would be more like pld, gnb and war at S+ tier with drk at S. Theyr all excellent at their role rn.
You are 100% correct. For jobs that do not have a raid buff, aDPS is a better way to measure jobs against one another, and DRK currently reigns supreme once again in 7.05. I do not even think DRK's tools are all that bad, TBN and Oblation are both really good utility, but DM does feel a bit awkward in M1 and M3. It is quite simple to play, although most tanks are, so it is probably by design.
I"m still very confused about you guys talking about "interpreting" FFlogs. It shows that gnb does the most damage in 3 of current savage fights. DRK is top on M2S, with not even 400 dps more than the second place. And your interpretation is that DRK is the top damage? I'm honestly curious now, how does your interpretation work? The data from the last week matches the data from 2 weeks ago too.
@@RFKG Well... we can start with what you're saying there with a tank being 400 dps above 2nd place... Where do you see that? I'm looking at it now and going by rdps, which im assuming ur judging by if ur ever trying to say drk is the worst dpswise, the difference between first and last in m1s is 501 adps (gnb and war), the difference between 1st and 2nd, gnb and drk is 149 adps. M2S is the only fight where drk is last from what im seeing, and there the difference between it and first place is 170 dps. In M3S DRK is last in rdps again with the difference between it and first place being 199 dps and M4S has the biggest difference between it and first place with 214 dps with the difference between 1st and 4th being 266 dps, that is to say that there is only a damage difference of 400+ dps among tanks in m1s between the GNB and WAR. A difference that large does not exist anywhere else, going by rdps. By Adps, the tanks are even closer than that with Drk being at the top decisively at the high end even when its 2nd or 3rd at the median in the first 2 fights. Summarily, all of the tanks are extremely close dpswise. They look close on fflogs and reading the numbers, they are even closer than they look.
Drk needs are rework in terms of gameplay and some animations yes, but this is a tier list based on "power/meta" in which case, why the hell are you judging tanks of off rDPS? tanks dont provide raid buffs, so what you should be looking at is aDPS, you know the damage that tanks actually deal to the boss, in which case from a raw dps stand point drk is more than fine
6:43 and pictormancer is so easy i could play it without issue with the screen turned off. it's brain numbinly boring to play it too. once i leveld it to 100 i dropped it immediately. and i was so hyped for it too...
Viper was almost master class I still don't understand why the got rid of gnashing fang the whole point of viper is dot but other then that it's fun the only real problem I have is it has a great gap closer but nothing to really back step he'll it even settle for a general speed boost other then that reawakened is kind disappointing you have it for 4 attacks which is strong but might need some work and for a melee it's alittle too squishy still not as squishy as ranged but sometimes it's just not enough
I'm expecting a small rework of DRK like they did with PLD during EW but thats just me coping cause I feel like they just dont care at all about DRK, it's soooo bad 😢
This is not meant to be aggressive in anyway but I felt that this criticism needed to be said to promote better overall knowledge within the community regarding class balance. This is primarily focused on the tanks, in the video you are covering with rdps when in reality they should be covered by adps like you did for samurai and viper as at the base level, they are the exact same in terms of their raid contribution. But back to the tanks, look at endwalker for example, drk looked pretty bad on the rdps charts compared to the other tanks, but they were curb stomping other tanks in raw damage when raid buffs are taken into the equation. Enough for meta comps to forgo any other tanks and run a second dark knight just because they did so much damage. The penalty to lb generation didn’t matter when you gained essentially about 1k dps over the other tanks and the limit break generation plan can be adjusted to make up for that loss. As it is right now, for tanks you are comparing them in vacuum when the comparison for their potential and damage contribution is at its fairest in buffs. You are also comparing the stats in week 2 when no one has bis. The tanks especially won’t get bis until week 6 at the very earliest. This also negatively affects some rdps jobs as well as they are going to look weaker than they actually are due to the feed not being present from the lack of gear. If I may make a suggestion, a more accurate representation would be around week 7-8 when all classes should have best in slot rather than the incomplete data we have right now. This link was pulled 5 minutes ago and it shows the raid performance of the tanks right now. Also if you look at the max potential of the tanks right now, drk is at the very top for all but one fight. www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/62#class=Tanks&dpstype=pdps&dataset=90
You are absolutely right, but it is really all about the defensives at the moment. All other Tanks got some really Banger defensive additions, while DRK got a Potion
@@DesperiusFFXIV gotcha but there’s an issue there as well. I wanna say first hand that drk does need a rework, but as for defensives they got either the best or second best defensive upgrades out of the four tanks. That excog tied to shadowed vigil heals for almost half its health bar (on a non crit) when it either pops or the timer expires. It’s on par with guardian and great nebula. Drk’s main flaw is the utter lack of self healing.
I'm a NIN main since it first came out back in ARR and I just feel like we're back to Shadowbringers again, where we are over here playing the piano and still getting bottom tier melee dps. Hopefully they give NIN a bit of a boost so we can compete with the other melee dps.
I like the idea that playing ninja is like playing piano, while other jobs they just give you a "red easy button" that you press to top dps.. ninja never gets any love.. it's so annoying..
@Tashiro64 ninja was top dps in p5-8s in endwalker at its release if I recall correctly. 60sec trick days, ninja was practically a required job in every raid group
DRK should have never been a tank class to begin with. Thats why it will always struggle. It was a dps class in FF11 and it should have stayed that way.
@@dedexter88it also needs higher damage. They want to keep the ranged tax, then fine, but for all that's holy, MCH shouldn't be doing so low damage that the best MCH is doing worse than an average VPR or SAM, if that. Let us be able to keep up.
Add more tools if you want, but don't touch the ones I've got. Drill, chainsaw, air anchor, and now full Metal Field feel so good. And do NOT touch disassemble.
Im just picking up healing again after well the last time i healed was in ARR so a while. Tried sch and whitemage so far. I like whitemage more as its regens seem more useful that the shields. Not tried sage, might like it. And i cant stand the fortunetellers design so its a no for me. For dps i go back and forth between monk and bard. I like playing bard most because i like things with dots and it seem to be the one with the most. I really wish there was a warlock style class in this game. And i cant tank. Well i can, my gunbreakers almost maxed but i get lost very very easy so i dont tank unless im in a team with friends who know i get lost and can point the way. Im like worse than Zoro. At least the dungeons are normally straight forward and not so open as a lot of WOW ones were.
as a DRK and PLD main. I honestly prefer DRK to PLD atm. Which is a change for me. Re your tank tiering, and general tiering. I notice you're basing it off All Percentile. Usually, I check out 95%, at least 80% to get a better look at differences. I'd say the biggest red flag with DRK, rather than it's actual dps output (which at 95 and 80, all the tanks are very close together), is the fact that DRK has half as many parses at the time I post this (27k for DRK), as WAR (56k). They also have 20k fewer parses than GNB, and 14k fewer than PLD. So more than the damage numbers, it's just not being played anywhere near to the same degree as the other 3 tanks.
As a Dark knight player they don't even need to rework TBN to fix the job. All they need are some adjustments on their other skills. Maybe add a regen effect to Oblation. Or maybe have Salted earth heal you if you stand in the puddle. And giving back 5 stacks of Blood weapon so we are not as mana starved all the time. Giving some extra potency on our delirum combo would also make it so we are competitive again with our damage.
They need to fix the animation stance. Dragoon and DRK walking while holding their weapon is so outdated and ugly! The only one that has acceptable stance is Ninja and Gunbreaker. The rest are so corny
Its frustrated when i realize how weak i was in dps and survivability I'm not a hardcore player, but i feel constantly without healing im hoing to die as a Tank. DRK is my favoy class because his edgy asf lol
Honestly, while I know that the Dragoon changes are generally seen as good, I can't help but feel like it gutted the job because of how downright boring it feels to play now. Without the double weave it just feels like generic melee. And when Reaper and Viper are better at generic melee...
I know this doesn't fit the topic of the video but I have a question. I bought and played ffxiv in 2022 and I'm thinking about getting into it again. I think I bought the complete edition back then. Are any of the newer dlcs automatically included or do I have to buy endwalker and dawntrail?
I didn't pay attention, but if it is a veil for scouting, it is the Moownard Veil of Scouting, which can be bought now for... nuts I think...? Not sure, but it is from Endwalker.
my take is that as RPR, i shouldn't have to struggle to keep up with PCT who are pressing 3 buttons and effortlessly becoming top dps. nerf it to the level of other casters where it should belong lol
Going by the Logs isn't a currently accurate depiction of Pictomancer right now. Most Pictomancers I see overall float around the same as SMN and RDM. Just like how Yoshi-P said, "Job effectiveness will vary depending on player skill", if they Nerf Pictomancer, those lower end players (Which are more common than one might imagine) will be now competing with the current Phys Ranged instead of the other Casters. And if that happens, Picto, which is a currently popular job, could be seen as underperforming (most of the times) by the players experiences with it, leading to it being possibly barred from a lot of PFs. What needs to happen isn't only a change to Picto, buffing or nerfing it, but a conjunct set of changes to all casters, so if such things were to happen, the impact will be lessened. Or just give it a bit of time until the honeymoon phase with the job is gone, and they can adjust it with less people complaining about it.
Thank you, PCT does not need a nerf. PCT and BLM take a massive hit to their DPS if you make mistakes and drop casts compared to jobs like RPR and VPR especially. I don't understand why players still think melee must be the top when they all have so many movement tools. BLM needs a huge buff, PCT should be up with the melees. Casters can't be balanced on the highest possible level of play IMO, the vast majority of PCT players do not hit anywhere near that high. And it has to compete with raise and the insane simplicity of SMN.
LMAO what? you're basically saying "if you aren't playing picto correctly, it does SMN damage". yeah... obviously. what does that have to do with balancing the meta
@@alaskanparadise I guess you don't know the concept of Floor and Ceiling. Nor that most of the playerbase doesn't play well, and that it is the majority of the subs of the game... Why do you think Noxious Gnash was removed? Kaiten? And other homogenization changes that are happening? It is all so they can raise the Floor Skill level, the performance of the majority of the player base, without interfering much with the Ceiling level of player skill, which are the ones that gives Picto the fame of being "overtuned", despite the average Picto you meet being closer to the SMN in performance. Simply nerfing Picto will infuriate people, which is why I said there needs to be a change in all the casters overall, so the floor is raised and the ceiling balanced. There's no reason why Casters (without res) should be dealing much less damage than melee.
@@lunarsuperstar Balance in this game is very minute, like single digit dps differences between the top and bottom jobs. Its also only relevant to current savage, which casuals dont do anyways. Worrying about the balancing of a job when you're playing it that sub-optimally is like worrying about the performance of the tires on your 1989 toyota
trying to claim DRK's mitigation is bad is a gigantic self report as either a terrible tank or a parrot who can't think of their own opinions. it will be fantastic for the ultimate.
For DRK it’s worth keeping in mind that they succeed well with aDPS. Perhaps B tier is a bit too low. They are still the highest aDPS tank, and for every boss in rDPS and aDPS there are multiple DRKS in top ten. As of today, top 3 aDPS on M4S are DRKS. Not to say they’re stronger than the others, just that they definitely aren’t multiple leagues below the other tanks. Also worth noting that DRK magic mit always comes in strong for ultis! :)
That doesnt change the fact that its terrible and boring to play, it should be the hardest hitting tank or together with GNB. That class needs a full rework and replace useless garbage like Enhanced Unmend, Salted Earth and remove dumb shared recast of Abyssal and Carve.
dont know what ppl are up too. for me dark knight plays the most fun of all tanks. warri is so boring you just unga bunga push everything which comes off. pld and gnb almost plays like the same job imo. burst phase into pretty boring off burst. dark knight has more buttons and for me blackest night is the most fun "shorter" mit of them all. with the benefit of used right you get "the mana back". is it just me that drk feels really good? dont know about savage yet but leveling i enjoyed drk the most for sure
@@Frozen_Veinsyeah I dont get what people are smoking. As DRK i can monitor the raid and be more active with TBN usage along with controlling my mana. War is significantly more basic than DRK and GNB feels significantly less flexible as a tank
@@Frozen_Veins Dark knight is my favorite tank to play by far also and i find it fun to play still. This said some of the complaints are still valid. Hitting the 1-2-3 combo and only spending blood or mana on TBN or if you are about to cap and saving everything for the 2 minute burst is abit stale. Aswell as having just terrible sustain in dungeons where you will just die if the healer refuse to heal you all the time. While warrior don't even need healing. This said dark-knight does not even need that much to be great. Just some small changes to their skills and maybe giving us something more to do during filler would work wonders.
@@KleverKilvanya Not sure why you saying it doesn’t flow with its playstyle. It has a purpose it can be applied anytime and gives you something to think about and to consider while playing the job. Removing deaths Design would make reaper feel very weird for the same reasons why viper feels so much worse since the dmg buff it gave was removed.
@@KleverKilvanya It's not hard to keep the effect up. So dunno why people think it's bad. You just use it once it's about to fall off. And you can apply it twice to it lasts a pretty long time anyway. Also it's good in dungeons since it gives you gauge if the enemy dies. Take it away and you lose that gauge also.
Idk for me Nin and Drg is a bit to far off, I agree with drk and prange are off to far and especially mch but for me that’s every expansion the case since your explanation proves the point.
I’m sorry, but I can consistently get more out of my white mage than any other healer, and god knows I’ve done them all. When it comes to recovering from a bad situation, WHM is just the best because of how endlessly flexible it is. The others… if their good stuff is on cooldown, they’re in trouble.
no one is arguing against that. damage wise whm is the weakest, and it takes less skill to play it bacause of the on demand heals it has, which is why you are probably having an easier time with it. but numbers do not lie. a good astro will always do better dps wise. as for healing potential, they are not going to struggle much if one knows the fight and know what is coming. the same can be said about the others as well. is it easier to recover from a bad situation with whm? sure. but a good healer will not really have a hard time doing so with the other jobs from my experiance.
I think k the tank switch should follow what they did with healers in the regards to pure and barrier healers not the same gimmick but that kind of idea warrior and paladin as support tanks, gunbreaker and dark knight as offensive
Standard SE. They overpower the new jobs for the hype and completely forget about other jobs until people complain for months on the official forums. Sometimes they even nerf jobs that would compete with the new jobs such as when MCH came out, they nerfed BRD so badly that no one played it. Then when DNC came out, they screwed both MCH and BRD. RPR came out, they screwed MNK and DRG. SGE came out they screwed the other healers, especially AST. PCT screwed SMN and to a lesser extent BLM but that got slightly fixed with this last patch. Can't have Yoshi-P's favorite job being bad now!
Brd was meta in HW when mch came out. Those were the triple ranged days, with mch, brd, blm, and drg because the piercing damage dbuff applied to three roles in the party. Brd wasn't "nerfed" they just gave them a cast time on some skills and people cried.
lol “can’t have yoshi-p’s favorite job being bad now!” It would’ve stayed a heaping pile of bottom barrel hog droppings if a ton of people hadn’t complained en masse about it (including me, because it fucking sucked to play). You’re also overblowing past events to fit narrative. Get real.
The issue is no matter how they balance things some jobs will ALWAYS perform the worst. Hopefully it come and goes. That some expansions some jobs are stronger but in the next expansion the bad jobs are stronger.
