It's actually a brilliant critique of the hypocrisy of politicians who claim to support other states for their virtues but actually only support each other for military, economic, and political means.
@@FabledHeroes3351 Worf was raised outside Klingon society and had an idealistic view of it. It's like someone who has never been to the US thinks Captain America is what every citizen is supposed to be and holds them to it.
@@Ray_D_TuttoI don't think Worf EVER held Klingons to such a high standard. Worf was taught about Klingons and their culture... but here's the rub, he then ended up behaving like an actual Klingon in such a society would without all the mucking which interfered with it. He embraced the core aspects of Klingon culture and integrated them into his own persona (mainly because life in the Federation allowed him to do so). In fact, not all Klingons he encountered behaved dishonourably. It was usually those who were NOT in positions of power that turned out to be a more accurate representation of what Klingon should be. But this is kinda the problem with most societies: they create a big set of rules and impressions of how someone should behave, and when people emerge who actually DO behave in such a capacity, they are perceived as 'weird'. That's basically what happened to Worf and others like him... they embody the core aspects of being Klingon (at least in accordance to their own real cultural values) and maybe that's why when other Klingons don't behave in the same manner, he sees them as very 'un-Klingon'.
I feel bad for Klyden. Here he was also born a female transitioned to male and because of that he over compensates by clinging to Moclan tradition. Yet his behavior at times comes off as female.
I still wish we got one more season of the Orville because I really want to see a moclan birthday ritual and Seth McFarlands characters reaction to it 😂
They've probably seen atleast one for topa or bortus if it's enough to be invited to a jaloja and atleast Kelly was because of what bortus said when they were saving topa from the black site
I find the Moclans are a genious creative idea. First of all they are all gay men, wich is pampering to modern crave for inclusion policies. Secondly they absolute *hate* females and think they are defective and inferior. Wich completely goes against modern craving for inclusion policies. thirdly their society is completely efficiency based and values only strength and productivity, wich is a grim idea of our own societys development. Fourthy we experience them through characters that struggle and learn during the plot of the show wich teaches everybody can change and overcome prejudice. This conflict of the Moclans and their learnig curve with it is an awesome journey teaching many values about counter sexism and politics. I love the concept so much.
So the show says it should NOT be up to the parents to decide the sex of the child or even up to the child - i.e. the show says any sex change should be only allowed past age 18 or even older.
Look many people will disagree with me but Moclans are mirror image of conservative are of earth who believe in one way of living life and there believe is right one. Our society is progressive we think Moclans are bad people who have backward thinking views. This also raised ethical question who are we to judge other people culture and way of life if it dose not align with ours. This aspect was not handle well with the show.
@@jacobschreibman980 Somewhere is a joke where tied together is the "Bumbles bounce" comment from Yukon Cornelious and Klyden packing up and leaving (he had to bounce).
Really? First season he seems fairly reasonable, especially when he gets the rose tinted glasses he had on about his culture taken off with the whole incident with Topa.
@@LANDBACKbyANYmeans, and fantasy as well. From the 1st edition Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide, "It is a logical basis of an illogical game." Sci-fi, like all literature, is designed to be read, understood, & enjoyed by humans. Like everything else, it's subject to self-serving bias. George Carlin pointed out that the philosophy of the "sanctity of life" is also subject to the same bias, since it's written by & for living people. But not all sci-fi is subject to human superiority. Consider the movie Contact, starring Jodie Foster & Matthew McConaughey, which is entirely devoted to humans trying to understand Vegans, a society so advanced that direct contact was only possible w/their assistance, and only permitted in such a way that its very existence was unverifiable.
To be fair, humans aren't exactly open-minded either *Forcing* everyone to equality, peace and democracy isn't exactly ideal At the end of the day all systems worked good enough to get the respective species into space Kinda ballsy then to sell your human values as absolute truths and expect everyone to follow them Also at least star fleet in star trek is pretty flawed - their equality does not include genetically enhanced people nor does it include artificial lifeforms like holograms and androids They stole the intellectual property of a hologram and when he wanted it back they said "Well, you aren't a person, so..." and they legally permitted the murder of Data for the off-chance that the researcher might discover how to mass-produce them - had those two not had friends willing to go to court for their rights they would still be without them and in the case of data he would even not exist anymore Other fun incidents: risking a war with the klingons because they couldn't believe in the potential for peace, genocide just so some people can live a bit longer, tricking the romulans into joining the war against the dominion, repeatedly trying to get stealth ships despite their agreement with the romulans to never develop them...
Klyden: Gets easily manhandled by Grayson, a fairly ordinary human woman. Also Klyden: Somehow thinks squaring up with a near-invincible robot is going to work out well for him.
Bortus' statement in the beginning is appropriate when we considerhis standing with his own society, he sees something similar, but in the other way thus know from experience they are as untrustworthy as his people, maybe more.
Exactly. Bortus is not a hypocrite, he genuinely believes his peoples' beliefs are horrible. This is especially true when he realizes just how much it has affected his daughter.
I just rewatched the scene with isaac defending toppa and through the whole confrontation he is calm, and civil de-escalating. Even when being physical it is never aggressive. Until Klyden turns back around to look at toppa then Isaac actually squares up. That shift he does is so aggressive and emotive in a way he probably doesn't even realise. Our best and most emotive moments are always in defence of others
Maybe he doesn't need no fancy personality module, I'd like for Isaac's arc to be written in a way where he develops feelings by expansion of his own program, kind of like when Data from Star Trek prefers to grow on his own instead of accepting Lore's shortcuts.
@@Marqan Issac is a robot and he will always be a robot, he can expand his understanding but he'll never be like a human, and that's ok. There's nothing wrong with being a robot and it comes with many advantages.
The way brotus is able to say screw off to the centuries of being brought up by his culture. Is showing a epic idea of how a union should be. The same way star trek did with some of there episodes but this show actualy made it a main point and why I need to pick up the series when I can
Exhibit #5 Grayson's Office: perfectly handled by the Commander 🤩 Exhibit #7 Klyden's Departure: hearing those words in your mum's wistful, nostalgic tone isn't less damaging
#5 is why the invite to dinner at the reconciliation was so monumental, not just on Klyden's part as a non-spoken apology but Kelly's decision to stay and eat their werid food.
If Rena had not done what she did then Klyden and Topa might still be estranged from each other. It still does not justify her actions but great it all worked out for good.
Their marriage ceremony also makes no sense. Its a literary hunt! You chase down your soon to be spouse and have to force them into submission mean awhile they are doing everything they can to get away from you even trying to kill you. What the hell is with these guys? You want a divorce? Stab your spouse through the heart like what the hell?
They are from a death planet, So they evolved with the idea of Survival of the fittest. So everything deadly or link to survival, remember Bortist said when he went on a date they out shooting and their ball game have sharp spikes.
They come from a very harsh deathworld until their industrial revolution survival was a daily struggle and that shaped a lot of their beliefs. Apparently both males and females can lay eggs so the whole males only thing might be an ancient tradition rather than historically recent.
To be fair, that is baked into Trek, which, obviously, is the model for The Orville: peace with the Klingons and the Romulans even while they keep their ruthless, imperialist ways.
Well, there was that planet with the whole voting system. All of their people dressed differently from one-another. Not forgetting the planet that moved through time 700x faster when it warped to a different reality. They all dressed differently (in a medieval sense... though that changed when we next saw them) Basically, I believe the reason for the aliens all wearing the same is for two reasons. 1) It's MEANT to feel alien to us BECAUSE we, as humans, all dress differently and have our own sense of style, while alien races will have different reasons within their cultures for wearing what they do. 2) It's far easier on the show's production team to just make copy/paste outfits from a template, rather than having to design many different outfits.
It has to do with societal uniformity. Wean everyone Thinks along the same lines, individuality is repressed. Thing abou the US back in the 30-50 wean Puritan, Christian, and Catholic views dominated everything. The majority of Men all wore some manner of suit, and basically all woman wore a dress of some kind.
@@sycho-tech5104 Lol As long as you show a smidgen of identifiable compliance with clothing norms, even a walking talking turtle can disguise themselves effectively.
It's very much "in the spirit" of Star Trek TNG, and many similar themes are present (the Planetary Union in place of the Federation), but The Orville is its own show/universe.
This is great writing on the concept of misogyny. The Moclans portray how toxic it can be from males who are stuck in an old way of thinking, where the Orville has people who look at a person's character. A great way of examining a modern topic without shoving it down the viewers throat.
He means in real human society not in a fictional alien society. While there may be individuals with misandric views there is no systematic misandry as opposed to misogyny.
If they haven't already I think they should do an episode or two that explores why and how Moclan society came to despise females so much that they became an all male society.
ii really need to find a moment to make myself watch this show properly because the clips like this make it seem so good and i enjoyed the first couple episodes
As a Turkish gay these parts made me cry. In Turkey unless you are in a upper crust family being gay is considered shame to family it gives me hope and moves me a lot for people who are going or will go through the same processes i went through, i still have to act like someone that i am not when i go back to visit my family what bortus does feels like my mom trying to overcome prejudices of generations over generations.
Ahem, they actually AREN'T a single gender species. They just ARTIFICIALLY make it so, which is downright WRONG and shoulda earned the Moclans the boot from the Union LONG ago.
I mean…how they stayed in the Union for as long as they did is BEYOND me. Like, I am CERTAIN the Union has laws protecting gender identity and I would THINK the Moclans would be subject to that once it was clear they actually DID produce females along with males.
@@jeremydale4548 the union might not have power to force members to do such things. Its part of the culture sphere i assume. Making laws on that be hellish. Also you seem to be shadow banned
Am I the only one who watched the Moclan "marriage ceremony" with extreme discomfort? Much of what passes for standard Moclan culture ranges from snigger-making to being distasteful, but this, I found highly disturbing and very worrying. OK, I get the the writers took the idea of an all male, mono-gender alien race with a 'warrior culture' and took it as far as they could get it to go. The "marriage ceremony" is a logical extension of this thought... I guess. Even so, this so called "marriage ceremony", placed in any other context, would have a lot of people up in arms over it. It would certainly generate a great deal of outraged protest if anybody but Moclans were involved!
I'm guessing you didn't pay a single bit of attention to Gordon when watching the episode. He also made similar comments about the ceremony after the fact.
You are aware that IRL there were cultures in living memory where the marriage ceremony is a mock abduction of the bride by the groom and his friends against their family, and the bride was expected to resist?
At 4:00, is the point this show went full woke. Not the point I stopped watching, but another, in a long list of reasons, that the quality of this show has gone into the shithouse.
May I ask how it's gone woke? To my knowledge that male character a civilian while the female high up in the space MILITARY makes sence she'd know how to pin him and react well to him.
@@OneofmanyASMR Coming from someone who used to teach the exact technique she used. (It is a fairly common move called the 'chicken wing'.) I can tell you that there is a limit on how much force the human body can put on another. She might weigh 105lbs. at most, and he is pushing over 250lbs. Though weight can be used to your advantage the way she moved her hands and set herself up like she only needed one hand, is so blatantly wrong it is almost comical. Even the most untrained person will put up a fight well beyond what is shown. They have given this character so much plot armor, by setting her up as a navy seal, yet she is still human in tactical command (humans in this show have already been shown to be physically weaker than most races)... If I wanted to watch something like this, I would look up atomic blond, ghostbusters 2016, charlies angels 2019, captain marvel, or ANY of the recent star whores movies.
@@CRAZYUNCLE117 we are also shown on that clip that the civilian is to afraid to fight back when he's in that position. He's not acting back just trying to move him self back against her with no technique then she pushes him forward before he can't get any momentum. That part makes sence if you're pinned down you can't really just brute force you're way back against a skilled opponent or they will do exactly as she did and cut down you're momentum. After that she hurts him by twisting his hand/wrist further breaking his will to fight then let's him go. The whole sequence makes sence honestly. Tho maybe you arint made because of the sequence itself with the wording you're using I don't know don't wana assume. Edit also reached the scene what do you mean she only using one hand she holding his wrist in a bad position with one hand and using his shoulder for better leverage to hold him. Heck that how she able to slam him back into the wall more with the shoulder push as seen by the impact. So she is using both hands and both are actually utilized in the scene (one to slam him so he dosint get back into lunging and the wrist one to cause him pain to break his will to fight since shecnot strong enough to frick up his shoulder). Looking at it again it's really well done honestly.
I have to point out that the majority of fight scenes in film and television are very much fake. They are choreographed to be exciting or to serve the plot and they are not intended to be examples of realistic combat. You watch any fistfight on television and I guarantee you will find something that no trained fighter would ever do. Yes it's true that most women are at a disadvantage in a fight, but this isn't meant to be a course in self-defense. It's a tv show where a woman marries a robot, where another has the strength to seriously mess you up just through foreplay, and a man suddenly wants to get with the guy who his ex-wife cheated with. I'm not sure why this scene offends yo so much.
