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78 rpm cartridge comparison - Ortofon OM 78 vs. AT-VM95SP vs. AT-MONO3/SP vs. Shure M78S Gramophone

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Another comparison of four 78 rpm cartridges:
- Ortofon OM 78
- AT-VM95SP
- AT-MONO3/SP (a real mono cartridge)
- Shure M78S with Thakker SS78E replacement stylus
I was surprised to hear only minor differences between the four cartridges playing this long playing Crown record from 1932 featuring Lou Gold & his orchestra playing the well known tune "All of me".
All of the cartridges can be recommended to play 78 rpm records on a modern turntable, like the Reloop RP-5000 MK3 used for this comparison (any Reloop turntable from model RP-4000 on support 78 rpm).

Опубликовано:

6 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 54

@Not-Only-Reaper-Tutorials 8 месяцев назад

Ortofon OM 78 and AT-VM95SP (the first 2) sounds better than the other 2 ones, at my ears.

@claudiopacobahyba7825 4 месяца назад

concordo com você...

@JoeOrber 2 года назад

The first two cartridges sound best to me, maybe a little muffled but way less surface noise

@tedrobinson372 11 месяцев назад

There are a number of unknown variables here: amplifier equalization, tracking force, needle shape etc. Some of the cartridges did not appear to handle well the higher modulated passages. But that may be due to the needle losing contact. It must be remembered that there was no standard groove shape during the shellac disc era. A needle that may pay well may sound awful on an early Victor Orthophonic disc (1925-26) or a Gramophone Co. disc from 1903. Recall these discs were intended to be played with stell needles that were to wear to the groove shape. Another factor is record wear. Due to groove shape variations over the 78 era and this steel needle business, wear can manifest itself at various areas of the groove. Improved sound may be achieved by simply changing the needle for a shape which rides higher or lower in the groove to find playback at a spot in the groove of lowest wear. Just some thought which make a comparison difficult.

@keremcemayaz2795 4 месяца назад

That is a wonderful record. The Ortofon and the ATVM95SP are clearly the winners. I am planning on getting a 2M 78 for my shellac discs. I am sure it will turn out great! Wonderful work and thanks for the video!

@HMV163 4 месяца назад

Thank you for the feedback. Would be nice if you could share your experience with the 2M system here or upload a video with a recording.

@jimeb2jim256 Год назад

Fascinating. I had recently shifted to a Shure Realistic R25 with a Shure nos 78 needle and really like that. I’ve had an Ortofon 78 needle around and hadn’t tried it yet but I’ll give it a shot. I’m used to Shure punchy voicing.

@carylee2002 2 года назад

I find both the At's sound pretty similar and the Ortofon to me a bit muffled and the Shure to be noisy with distortion on the high notes.

@MoggysHiFiAntics 10 месяцев назад

I have a OM78. I was concerned that I didn't have a true mono cart but after this listening I think I'll be happy with my OM78. I'm not a dedicated 78 disc owner/collector so I shall stop worrying. Don't necessarily believe me but a funny thing happened on the way to the amplifier.....I ran the OM78 into a MC head amp (transistorised common base pre-preamp) and then into the MM input on my amp and it improved the sound amazingly. I hope to verify this in the coming months. Only just sorting out my system after 2 years.

@HMV163 10 месяцев назад

The OM78 is not really a mono cartridge, the internal structure is still a stereo cartridge. True mono cartridges (which really only read the horizontal movement of a mono groove) are more expensive.

@MoggysHiFiAntics 10 месяцев назад

@@HMV163I gathered that from my investigation. Ortofon call it some weird name like "linked coils". My point is that I'm not now worried about it after listening to your video, I'm happy with it as it is as I'm not a 78 guru/fanatic. I just love all different formats which I have many of. Thanks, Hooroo.

@Trance88 2 года назад

The Ortofon OM78 is the clear winner in my opinion. Sounds like how a 78 should sound.

@j.paulpurdell6110 2 года назад

Did you know the Audio-Technica AT VM 95 SP Cartridge requires at least a 4.5 Gram vertical Tracking Force (weight) up to a 5.5 gram Verticle Tracking Force with 5 grams being standard. In respect to this don't depend on the counterweight that registers to a possibly incorrect reading of 3.5 grams. Instead utilize a digital gram scale. You will also find necessary to relocate the counterweight to where the digital gram scale (once again) displays a reading of at least 4.5 grams for old shellac 78 rpm records. Gooduck.

@HMV163 2 года назад

Yes I am aware of this. I also use a digital scale to set the turntable's counterweight accordingly. With 5 grams I found the stylus unneccessarily bended. Additionally I did not hear any improvement in quality of the records I listened with 5 grams instead of 2.5 grams I usually use for this cartridge. My records are not warped or would need additional tracking force to stay inside the groove. But maybe other listeners will find your hint quite useful.

@Prasen1729 6 месяцев назад

I would say : AT-VM95SP and AT-MONO3/SP, very close then Shure M78S and Ortofon OM 78. AT-VM has more bass than AT-MONO, maybe you need to adjust the setting while changing from one stylus to another, if you did set that perfectly, then I would choose AT-VM95SP as the winner as per this setting on this record.

@Mark5W8Comer 5 месяцев назад

Great demonstration! I use an Ortofon Super with Stylus 78, getting great results, but the AT-VM95SP has a better sound. I had a Shure M78 and thought it was the worst thing ever made! The stylus on my Shure was 2.5mil, probably contributing to the awful sound I got.

@HMV163 5 месяцев назад

Thank you for sharing your experience. I did not recognize any significant difference between tje Ortofon and the AT95. I meanwhile use s Shure V15-III system which I like the most of all my cartridges and styli.

@elliotsoldies9585 5 месяцев назад

I would also love if you could test the AT VM670SP for us. Thanks!

@HMV163 5 месяцев назад

Let's see, the set costs 150€. Maybe if I can get it cheaper or used. I do not expect much improvement to the AT95.

@Quizsretrorecords 3 месяца назад

Hey! Any chance you could transfer this with either the Ortofon or VM95SP? I would love to listen to this without the varying qualities and sounds

@HMV163 3 месяца назад

Uploaded here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-n4WebGJngFs.html

@Quizsretrorecords 3 месяца назад

@@HMV163 Thank you so much!!! Sounds great!!

@jeffreysantner3717 Год назад

The Ortofon is the quietest.

@Chuek-WaiTai 2 года назад

Useful comparison. I have started to playing shellac by Shure cartridge on a Dual 1219. I am interested to know what phono stage and playback curve you used. Thanks.

@HMV163 2 года назад

I use a flat preamp (no RIAA compensation) and add a bit of bass to the signal via a parametric equalizer in the range below 500 Hz. The signal is cut at ca.12 kHz. For this comparison no further signal conditioning was applied. I am no fan of using special filters for e.g. Victor records until 1930 or something like that.

@Chuek-WaiTai 2 года назад

@@HMV163 Thank you very much for your information! That is a good reference to me.

@cpaulphl 7 месяцев назад

AT-MONO3/SP is a "high output" moving coil cartridge. Wondering if it needs a special pre-amp? Very disappointed in how it sounds here

@HMV163 7 месяцев назад

The high output was connected to the MM input, it "overdrives" the MC input of my preamp. Yes, it is softer in comparison to the MM cartridges and I didn't want to amplify it for the comparison.

@quesoturtle739 Год назад

What kind of turntable are you using? I was looking to get the ortofon but I’m not sure if it’ll work with my AT-Lp120xusb.

@HMV163 Год назад

I'm using the Reloop 5000, normally a DJ turntable with direct drive. It has the standard round 4-pin headshell connector which allows to switch between different systems fast.

@jeb419 Год назад

Thanks for the comparison! What phono preamp compensation did you use? Just an RIAA frequency curve?

@HMV163 Год назад

I'm using a flat equalizer (no RIAA compensation) followed by a parametric equalizer which boosts the bass below 1 kHz a bit.

@marcelo4327 2 года назад

@HMV163 You, who have heard each configuration with good speakers... Which one would you choose? Saludos.

@HMV163 2 года назад

I ended up with the Orthofon and the AT-VM95SP System, they sound quite similar for most of the different record brands. I'm using the Shure 78S for some acoustic records, my impression is that it creates a "richer sound" for them but that's a subjective opinion.

@RobertWrightOneManCovers Год назад

@@HMV163 That squares with my impressions as well. I liked the Ort best (wasn't expecting that!) and the a-t was just as good, but on this disc, the Shure felt overripe and a little bit blown out. That would indeed add some body to acoustic recordings.

@JDlupin Год назад

The third stylus sounds the most realistic to me

@johndextersantos9541 8 месяцев назад

what's the point of capturing the high frequency? you will just get noise i think.

@HMV163 8 месяцев назад

No, that's not true. Using standard phono preams they are applying a frequency "filter" called RIAA curve which means the higher frequencies are reduced and the lower frequencies are amplified. This results in a less "noise" (crackles,etc) but removes a significant part of the higher frequencies of the original recording which did not use a RIAA curve. Listen to my video comparing a recording with a RIAA preamp and a "flat" (no RIAA) one which should demonstrate that clearly : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7Ac8mqroBEc.html

@johndextersantos9541 8 месяцев назад

@@HMV163 Thanks for your other video. So that means the RIAA curve puts the playback to how the recording was intended to sould like and this is the best it could probably get.

@HMV163 8 месяцев назад

@@johndextersantos9541 Don't mix up things: the RIAA curve is used on playing LPs (33 1/3 RPM) and singles (45 RPM) vinyl disks to get out the correct frequencies. 78 rpm reecords never used such a frequency manipulation for their recording or playback, therefore it's recommended to use a so called "flat" phono preamp which does NOT change any frequencies / does NOT have an RIAA circuit inside so you get more or less exaclty what had been recorded on these 78 rpm records.

@johndextersantos9541 8 месяцев назад

@@HMV163 but it sounds horrible using flat frequency based on the other video you shared.

@HMV163 8 месяцев назад

@@johndextersantos9541 That is a matter of personal taste. Of course it sounds "bodyless" but especially the higher frequency of the voices are more detailed and not "muffled" like with RIAA. This video only shows the output with a flat preamp. I use in addition to this in my other recordings on my YT channel an EQ amplifying the bass parts. Do not compare 1920s/1930s recordings with modern HiFi experience.