800K for a ROBODRILL?!?!?! 

the propery tax on that machine is more than enough reason to leave California.

Love the transparency of the numbers.

And that's why people and companies are moving out of California... Makes sense now.

Not boring. Glad you posted this in detail!!

Awesome content guys, the numbers cost you but also make you money. Very important to get a good understanding of inflow and outflow. Thank you for the transparency in the numbers, keen to see what you guys do with this machine!

I work for a distributor in NJ that handles the Methods line here. We've installed a bunch of those with the Haberle systems. Machines run 24/6 even though they only have one shift. The customers are thrilled. Getting broken tool detection and redundant tools set up is where these machines really shine. Break a tool, machine kicks out and flags the current pallet as damaged, loads a new one and uses the backup tool. Fun stuff.

(Disclosure; I'm the Speedio rep for the Pacific Northwest) The Robodrill with the Haberle setup is a pretty great machine, and you will find much success with it! Having said that, to put some perspective on the cost - a lot of folks are a bit shocked at the pricing. If you assume you can get 20 hours a day out of it on those 5 business days per week, you're only looking at $20/hour. Given he is in California, where the average machine shop wage is pushing at least $28 in pay alone (not accounting for taxes and other employee costs), it is kind of a bargain. Always a bit odd to me that people get a lot of anxiety over buying a machine like this, when really - you are putting yourself in a much worse risk position when you hire someone to sweep the floors... and people do that with much less fuss and risk assessment. Unlike the floor sweeper, this man basically just bought a money printer.

congratulations on your purchase, cant wait to see what you are building......cheers from Florida, Paul

Thank you for an honest look at your numbers. Good luck!

Thank you so much for the evaluations. This was extremely useful for me ❤

Thanks for sharing the numbers!

Very eye opening! Youve got my sub for the journey, best of luck from the uk 🇬🇧 👍

Stoked for you man! Cant wait to see this thing making chips!

Nice to see another owner openly breakdown the cost to add advanced equipment to the shop floor.

Cool break down, I like your video style, subscribed for more

Thanks for the real numbers and nice explanation..

I appreciate the video and sharing your reality of ownership. I'm rooting for you to win big time with this machine. I'm real curious what the driving decision was for running neat oil in it vs. water based. I'm assuming it's materials you plan to cut.... but boy that stuff is a messy pain in my humble opinion. Don't get me wrong, there's several situations where I'd love to be running it, but dang, you're going to have that stuff in and on you for the life of that machine. I admire your spirit of risk/reward as a business owner. We make some tuff decisions, eh?

I don't get why paying taxes on a machine you payed for is mandatory ? other types of taxes aren't enough or what ?

This is an excellent breakdown of all the financial factors faced by shops everywhere. In the end, we are highly confident the Methods Plus K will return your investment and then some! Thank you Shawn and the Conour team for your confidence in this RoboDrill solution and your investment with Methods! Wishing you all continued success - and subscribed!

Thanks for posting the numbers - I often wondered what this part of the business case looks like. Those numbers are really scary, so you need to be certain of your sales pipeline! Hope it works out for you.

Love to see the numbers. Eye opening for sure. This stuff is not for the faint of heart!

Man Super detailed cost breakdown . Good luck bro !

So basically $420/ day plus material. I will say my shop has the same machine and it is our go- to for fast small parts. Runs lights- out and have one person load it up on the weekends, once a day. If you have the work, it'll Rip through the work load!

Cool video! glad I found the channel

Earned a sub from me, fellow machinist thinking about starting my own shop, my department profits our company 1400$ per working hour, per person, and I want some cheese for myself ! While making barely livable wages, we lose bonuses, insurance gets cut, we get a 3% (cost of living ) increase, and they tell us they don’t make enough money to pay us more, while bragging about just a handful of guys making them millions a month, Watching this makes me glad I don’t live in California lol a property tax on a machine is insane.

You definitely caught my attention with that video title!

Super interesting, thank you.

Property tax? $500 per month? My lord, I had no idea Newsom’s hairdo cost so much. Get the hell out of that state!

Very cool piece of kit, and very scary numbers. Thanks for sharing! One day you'll look back at this turbulent exciting part of your life and you'll miss it im sure. Best of luck with everyting!

looking forward to more content!

Thank you for sharing those numbers.

What kind of parts will you be making so many of? You may not be able to say exactly but what industry and what kind of machines the parts will be used in would explain why these kinds of investments make sense. The financial was very interesting too.

I just started to work with one after 6 months of CNC experience (Didn't have the chance for practical use in my old firm during my apprenticeship). It's awesome, but there are many handy tricks and the macros are kinda complicated at first. If you got enough jobs for it, you good. But for use, we have to do the second OP in a different machine. Tho the second op is mostly just deburring and removing the bottom.

I think that is one of the misconceptions a lot of people and companies have about starting a machine shop, it can get expensive FAST! Everyone knows machine shops are capable of making loads of money, but they dont see the fact that it takes loads of money to run and operate one effectively. As someone who started a shop last year, many of the elements you discussed (such as property taxes) are all the hidden costs behind a purchase. Fortunately for me, North Carolina and the county I live in is pretty relaxed on property taxes for anything outside of vehicles and land, but it is still a cost that you have to consider. Another cost that you didn't mention that should probably be discussed is the insurance policy you presumably have to hold since you have a loan on it. My insurance for my small company (I make less than $70k a year with it and have 2 machines) is $3600 a year, which covers both general liability and business property up to $100k. As they say, if it were easy, then everyone would be doing it! I think that robodrill will make you lots of good parts going into the future.

Dang! , you obviously have the work to afford it. It’s awesome having a brand new machine however in my shop I’ve had great success buying nice used machines. Helps keep my hourly rates low making me more competitive in the long run. We’ve bought new ones as well but overall the used have performed just about as well. Bought a brand new Miyano lathe. 8 inch chucker with live tooling. Great machine so we bought a nice used one. They are both cranking out precision parts but more profit from the used one for sure. Still it can be a crap shoot. We also bought a used Miyano BND with an LNS auto bar loader out of FL and knock on wood has been simply awesome. Latest purchase was Doosan 8 inch chucker and it’s awesome but the hourly rate is higher. Loved your video and I subscribed. Can’t wait to see it in action. Those things are blazing fast so your part cost in theory should be very competitive as well. Wish you the best of luck. Especially being in CA. The taxes there are simply insane. Why everyone’s moving the heck out of there.

😮 oh , did you buy a Häberle? ! I can‘t believe this price! As an member of Fanuc Germany i am absolut shocked! 😢 but this is the best Robodrill you can buy 🎉 Häberle is the absolut top System House for automatic a Robodrill ! Congrats 🎉

Reasonable if you can keep it running 24/7. We've run lights out for almost 30 years now, and it's the only way to get ahead.

That much for a robo drill with a pallet pool? What kind of parts does he run?

You need to get out of California! I have 3 machines and never heard of property taxes on them. I'm in Ohio

Wonderful video! What is the general Machine hourly rate (MHR) for such machines in your region?

So what you're saying is you're ballin' ❤️🙌🏽

Nice edit and transparency. Refreshing. Curious, why Robodrill over a Speedio which has such a loyal Instamachinist following?

Wow the 60 vises is awesome. Thats alot of production for the footprint. I would love to get something like that Robo-Drill one day. Thanks for the cost breakdown.

Hey Sir , what Kind of Thermal insulation Material do you use in your Shop walls

Finish your answer! Show everyone! Get down to the hourly rate! Yes, I can divide but, people need to see it. Shop owners need to start charging appropriate rates and employees need to understand that $100/hour does not mean the boss pays them $40 and he makes $60. It means the boss makes $10 or $20 and hopefully has enough machines to pay the rent and buy groceries. These shops charging $80/hour and not even covering all their hours are dragging everyone down.

$500 a month to just own the machine!? I'm in the U.K. and that sounds like absolutely madness to me. California just sounds like an awful place to live these days.....

Hi...new viewer and shed hobbyist in the uk.... bloody hell... just bloody hell....i can understand the high initial machine outlay.... but property tax...you have to pay the government continually to own your own stuff ... dude that sucks butt hard.... what an eye opening video into the big boys world of cnc... thankyou... all ghe best.....❤🇬🇧

I'm looking at buying a couple machines to start a small manufacturing company, but here is the hard place I'm in and maybe this relates to you also. If I had the machines sitting here now it would still take me 6-12months to get a product launched and get any kind of income, then likely another 6-12months to build up sales. How do you carry the machine cost during this period, do you have the cash saved and waiting to pay the monthly costs for 1-2years? I'd have to keep a day job to make the payments which doesn't leave much time to actually run the machines and work on the designs. I also have much cheaper CNC machines already that I am trying to do the prototype work on and maybe a few small production runs, but they have very limited capabilities. Anyway if you have any angles or ideas on making it through this transition period, I'd love to hear them..thx (oh and that property tax thing....that machine is no different then a truck or car, its not part of the property...I'm really surprised they get away with that kind of thing in the US...here we might sneak in a whole work shop one weekend and claim its always been there:)

We got into the camplete hype. I just genuinely recommend it for the first year if it's a new process for you. But get rid of it unless you are doing jobs that take 5 hours to proof on the regular. We where about to buy it for our nakamura tome super ntx and we have it for our new mikron hpm 800 uhd. But ive probably used it about twice to be honest.

Your video really helped me out (Subscribed). I was thinking about buying this machine until I heard the price. At that point I would rather acquire a Mori, Matsuura, or Kitamura.

this is an awesome video, you've earned a sub! this thing is small but it looks like an all out production monster and I love it! I'm not gonna lie though, I would be shitting my pants. you've probably got to be profiting 1k/day to make this worthwhile surely? you guys gotta start making some parts ;-) looking forward to the coming videos :)

Holy hell man. Ive got 7 mills, 5 lathes, 2 mill turns, and a full fab shop and Im less than 10% of that cost outright. I hope you make gobs of money but man that debt is gonna be a brutal wall to climb...

I cant help but think that for a little fanuc with a pallet changer 426k is a bit steep but there is good money making potential either way in manufacturing. I have my eye on my first machine and have my software already, but i want to run larger parts out of steel with longer run times so that's the direction im heading, im sure you know what you are doing.

Really interresting video, you dont usually hear about things like that

How does depreciation effect the property taxes. If in year 3 it's value deprecated by 15% would that reduce your property tax associated with the machine. Second question (I'm from Ireland so taxes probably work differently) How much, if any, of the monthly payment cost of the machine software and associated tooling can be deducted from your tax bill. Also I'm curious if there was any sales tax on the machine? In Ireland for capital purchase for plant and machinery you can claim for what's called a capital allowance, which is 12.5% of the capital value of the machine not including sales tax, this can be 12.5% can claimed each year for 8 years. The interest would all be deductible separately as a trading expense. I'm curious how it works in the US btw what state are you in?

Could you machine me a replica of the target that you supposedly key-holed? Lol Great video brother, cant wait to see more content 🙌🏻

Everybody wants a piece of the pie. In NC they have County property tax. They'll stop in and visually check your shop. To see if what your reporting is right or not. Had a tax officer check my website on machines I had listed. He called me on it for an audit. I just got the mill a month before, so it was due to list on my taxes for 5 months.

What is RoboDrill?

This is awesome. Didn't realise the Robodrills were so pricey! Curious (sorry if I missed an explanation) why you rolled property taxes into that though? Did they go up because you put a machine on the floor or something...? Just seems like an odd inclusion if you were going to have to pay it without the machine.

the title at 4:20 is significantly louder than the rest of the content, make sure to mix the audio!

American bureaucrats wonders why manufacturing flies high-speed over to China & Russia 🙄🙄

Doesn’t it just make more sense to buy like 100 CNC machines if it costed like 600k?

Its a sweet machine but i wonder why is the machine itself so expensive i didnt even knew robodrills went for over a 100k its the automation?

And I thought my $1600 lease payment for the machine in my garage was a lot. Jesus As a new guy starting out what does it even look like to get the machine to a point where it's not only paying for itself but turning a profit at this level? Assuming it's running production? I'm so far away from doing that even where I'm at it's so hard for me to comprehend it.

So basically if you buy that machine, you start working for fanuc and cal gov. Nice

Help me understand this real quick... So California makes you pay property taxes on something you own that doesn't add any extra area to the land you already own...? Bro. what?

Congrats Conor! Let me know if you need a cnc tube bender :-)

For 800K$ buy appartment,then rent it and have a good life

thats INSANE

Where I work we have 18x D21 robodrills that eat through hardened 17-4 daily. They have no problems holding .0001" ... Why haven't you left Commiefornia yet?

I am a numbers type guy, this machine given the numbers you supplied to achieve breakeven your standard priced sales has to increase $2k/day or $700k/yr or in the alternative replace/remove one skilled machinist from your workforce. You will get some tax savings through depreciation of about $240k over life of machine heavily weighted to the first three years of the depr. sched. Ray Stormont new sub.

20 dollars a hour is not bad.

Are you saying California charges you and extra tax? Just for having the machine or is that for the amount of space it takes? Up. In? Your shop?

Wow, that is all INSANE! I hope, given all of the hands that are out, that you at least make a little profit........ Wow, what an effed up world 😢

if you break it down to the hour its 18 bucks a hour running or not.

For a while there was a reduced sales tax rate in CA for manufacturing equipment.

Awesome piece of equipment, trying to hide my jealousy. I think you could save a lot on the software. I am assuming you were paid to plug in there info, but to all you shop guys trying to figure it out, you can find 3rd party distributors for licenses of software's. They may be a few years old but that doesn't matter. You will save thousands per year.

I work in a shop with 3 of these robos. Yes it costs this much. But the money you’re about to make from 24/7 machining will easily outpace the costs.

I hope you guys are insured from flood damage. That river outside the shop doesn't strike me as very capable to handle heavy rainfall

I think you spent way too much on a 21 M. Couldn’t you have gone with a robotic loader? Have you called Yamazen and got a quote on a Brother Speedio? I’m glad you have the work for this.

Robodrills are $40,000 in china. 45k with the DDR.

I just sold 21iEl robodrill for 2500 euros. There was also a pallet changer. Machine was a year 2004. For that money (505k) you can buy 201 similar machines😂

But given you can let that machine run 24hrs/day... that gets down to crazy low costs/hr operation... But then the work is, feeding the beast...

Crazy when one considers there is only the one spindle turning in this package.

A non-American here. Can someone fill me in on what property taxes are? I associate property taxes with real estate only.

Property taxes on a cnc machine?

I pray to god that you make money from it .

How does cali even survive

Never seen this much risk.

Huh... with those costs in mind I'd say fuck the video and just have it running. Those prices are insane. Jesus christ.

426k for machine? how is that machine so expensive?

my robodrill 21 tool 10k spindle brand new cost me 65,900 with no options, I load parts myself one at the time making money. I don't think you're making any with your robodrill

This makes no sense, you’d have change from £250k in the uk for that machine (excluding the vices and tooling) someone is making a lot of money. Just out of interest Foxxcon have 65,000 3 axis robodrills - wonder what they pay for them?

And this is why I buy used machines.

I am a bit confused about the pricing. In UK I was quoted £85k for a robodrill with some extras ($100k us?). It is hard to believe that the robo cell is another $400k even if you had customisations. You better have that robodrill running 24/7 high volume items to pay ot off. But then camplete for $6k/year makes no sense if you are running high volume items. Fusion alone is very powerful for proving the toolpaths with machine simulation for colisions. All in all either you guys are not telling the full picture or this is a very expensive impulse buy you are trying to justify now.

Those terms are horrendous. Grab a used one for 1/2 of that

why the heck would you finance something without the ability to pay it off early penalty free? thats insane...

please get machine insurance!

Cute, $800k for a machine, that doesn't even have the rigidity for serious milling ;-DD My whole 30-40yo machine shop with half the machines broken is about $50k, 4CNC millls, 3CNC lathes, a shaper, a shit china lathe and a couple of drilling machines.

turn that music down man! 😅