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Dishonesty to say the Mercedes won. Model X was there MUCH faster. There is no spirit about it. They were there long before you Kyle. Turning off FSD on the model X already violates the rules. It has gotten almost perfect. I only have to plug into chargers.
I'll send the LPL (LockPickingLawyer) to your home and he'll demonstrate how bad your electronic locks are. The fancier the new high-tech electronic locks, the worse the mechanical backup cylinders are! Often, a simple magnet can unlick the electronic locking component, too. Don't use it, don't buy it.
1:54:00 Max - no, you're NOT in a race situation. The whole point of the return trip is to drive as a normal person. A normal person would not unplug another's car.
What even was that Bolt EV thinking? I can sorta understand when a 400v car that can take 400A pulls in and wants it all, but not a Bolt or Niro or something like that.
@@anthonyc8499 Could be a LOT of things.. I have a Bolt too.. and at my local EA.. lots of WEIRD things happen.. I usually try the 150kw chargers first.. but one of them is listed as derated to 50kw.. no problem does not effect me.. but that charger ALSO tends to go for a few min.. and then have a session error.. Some of them dot like to actually connect.. the bolt has a little safety catch thing.. that engages.. or tries too. if it doesn't sometimes it will fault the charger.. for some reason the 350 chargers usually work better. Also found on a road trip that NON EA chargers work better.. EV Go.. connects every time.. the latch just works.. Francis Energy same thing.
So you're supposed to follow your navigation, but when you get back to Denver, you use Google to get around an accident. That's cheating. If the truck doesn't reroute you, you should have to sit and wait.
If the goal is consumer representative testing, I think most users would check other map software to find the way around as well. Seems fair enough to me
@@lukecanride Agreed. Would a real Rivian Owner skip every Rivian (RAN) charger? No. The only ones hat followed the Route Planners were Max (EV9) and Ryan (Tesla).
800 miles is about 11 hours of driving. Not uncommon when driving long distances West of the Mississippi. When I used to have to make trips to Iowa to deal with family situations, I always went about 800 miles the first day- always stopped in Evanston, Wyoming after leaving the San Francisco east bay. Second day stop was Lincoln, Nebraska and the final day was only a 4 hour trip into my destination in Iowa.
@@jayem8981 thanks. I do all my programming while watching these videoes so lots of hours to do programming. Soon 4 weeks vacation from my day job and hope to have lots of new features in september
Rivian team is still treating it like the last race still. Turning off Rivian chargers stops, wet rag on the handle trick. The average person is not going to do that. Thought the whole point of the return trip was to be more of the average user experience. Also "The model X left. Lets unplug early." Right after saying you're going to wait for it to say 0 mins. Route planner said to charge for another minute.
To be fair, the average rivian owner is probably more likely to do those things than most Mercedes or even tesla owners. And Kyle even said that it was more acceptable for the rivian team to do something like the wet rag whereas you wouldn't expect to see a Mercedes doing it. But these are all impressions anyway. Do we really know the "demographic" for the Ev9 road tripper?
They might not turn off Rivian chargers, but most drivers, upon seeing a slow charger being picked would just remove that charger and pick another one. Since the result is the same, I think it's a valid substitution.
Maybe if they had let the R1S navigate to RAN chargers they would have faired better. Yes, it was theoretically faster without RAN in perfect conditions, but they proved that perfect rarely happens.
@@daviddraddy That's literally what screwed them when traveling on the way there, which is why they let it choose among all stations for the way back.
@@anthonyc8499 No pre planning such as their people making sure all the chargers are functional along their likely travel routes, figuring out the best route to travel ahead of time, etc.
I love that Kyle keeps pushing the others to no do anything but what the car says... do not monkey with it... this is what normal people will do, get in , put in a destination and follow it............ then he immediately talks about how he is going to use some tricks to monkey with the Mercedes to make it better. I appreciate he wants to win at all costs but I was kinda hoping for a fair, no mess with it...regular guy view of the race lol
I think this goes for unplugging and replugging in when chargers de-rate, wet rag tricks etc... I was hoping this test was of the typical network experience that each car relies on too, which for me includes plugging your car in and walking away while you get food etc
For the Rivian, to get to the option where you select arrival charge percent and miles, when you search up an address, don't hit go. If you touch the address instead of go, you get that option available to you.
That's the biggest thing that annoys me so much about him.. He can never lose, there is always something that he has to come up with to be the winner.. At first I thought it was a joke, but then I look at everyone else's reactions and he just constantly goes on and on for multiple videos about it .
He always picks the car that he thinks will give him the edge. Also, he usually does not share his knowledge until after the event. This test was a little different because of the agreed upon criteria that all cars would follow.
It’s not that I wouldn’t draft a truck, but I wouldn’t turn the AC off. Also, it’s clear that Tesla won with the use of AC so why not mandate it for everyone in the race? Race authorities implement arbitrary rules all the time.
Personally I’m okay with it. I consider “route planner” in this context to mean the planning of charging stops/times, rather than the full route navigation. None of the charging stops were affected.
They ended up having to go past their exit and turn around so not exactly saving time. The Kia also switched route to get around the accident although theirs was an alternative suggestion.
I find EA does weird things with my bolt.. sometimes session errors, the safety latch doesn't latch always.. you end up swapping chargers.. No idea why. don't have that issues with EV Go, and Francis Energy or others. the charger handles are different.
Yes and the Tesla team had time to drive to another parking garage before the Mercedes arrived. Not to mention it sounded like the girl didn't use any form of cruise control when she drove the Tesla, if that's true who knows how much time and power that wasted.
@@jarrodf_idc if one of the other cars won, Kyle is just such a sore loser and always needs to win. I get it, I’m hyper competitive too but he’s just so annoying about it sometimes.
I have a 24 EV9 GT-Line with the 99.8 kWh battery. It is such an absolutely great road tripping vehicle for the family, the monster charging cannot be understated. The team is right here though, the onboard route planning is way too overly conservative, and that combined with the inability to adjust any parameters is frustrating. Most of the time i’ll throw the destination in there see what it spits out, and then just use a little bit of logic and brain power to figure out where I really need to stop. I should say, though I’ve never seen it have me stop at 40 or 50% like you guys had. The highest I’ve ever had it tell me to stop was 30%. I wonder if the mountains played into it being insanely conservative, I live in a pretty flat part of the country
I did a trip to Portugal to the Netherlands in my EV9 and I was a bit confused with the prompts the navigation did. I think there's space to improve it. It recalculated the stops often and sometimes the planning vanished. The problem was probably me, but I was a bit confused and I have used EV before. I also had EV6 before, so I guess I was comparing the system and the navigation behavior was a bit different (the preconditioning was great)
I drive a 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR. I do road trips, often with a kayak on the car roof or pulling a Sylvan Sport Go tent camper behind. Often the camper also has a kayak or two on top. Obviously the navigation system has no way of knowing any of this when the trip is begun, but I’ve found that it adapts and delivers fairly accurate range and charge level predictions in all cases. I’ve also learned that configuration makes a big range difference. Never put a boat on the roof of the car while pulling the trailer! Huge energy consumption. But a boat on top of this low profile trailer adds little to energy consumption... I slow down to 65 mph when pulling or car topping and get close to the same range as an unladen car at 75 mph.
Good to hear about the trailer. What types of kayaks are you referring to, though? Rec kayak, sea kayaks or whitewater? And what’s the hit on your range when towing the kayak vs no towing/no car topping
The Model X won. Kyle is way too competitive to be subjective. They didn’t know how to get in the garage and he’s been there quite a million times. In spirit and technically X won.
I'm stuck here with COVID. Thank you for a long and fun video. Couple penalties should be assessed. 1) unplugging another car 2) resetting route planning with no reason 3) switching chargers - most people trip few times and would have no idea what is normal 4) towel on charge handle 5) making assumptions on terrain An interesting "race" would be to have 5-6 average vehicles (model y, model 3, Kia, etc) and recruit people who are EV curious, but don't really know them. Put two in each vehicle with 1 OOS camera/expert in the back. The expert is only to help with basic car things like setting the route, operating the controls, etc. Basically nothing more than your average manual type help and to prevent any serious errors. Then, see how the teams do from like LA to Phoenix or Houston to Memphis - a route the OOS people don't really know. Then, let the hilarity begin. I suspect that you will discover a bunch of assumptions you all make that a new driver would not. Heck, I'd even go as far as not telling the team's how various chargers work, get paid, etc. What truly is the learning curve?
1:30:00 the EV9 folks might have problematic route planning but they’re clearly enjoying this trip much more than barely making it places on the way *to* Vegas
@@michaelrichter2528 Yep The Kia is fine if you know something about charging and EV road trips and especially if you know your main/favorite chargers. But for someone to just press the button and follow the instructions it would be slow. I guess if you over-rely on it, it's always a problem, and no matter what would be more frustrating/slower than a Tesla planned trip. Can't blame them on the first race, it was an actual race. This is more like a test.
Max : the Koreans have a simple system as far as turning the car on/off/putting it in P. Push the Start button while holding the brake. Twist to D. Drive. The parking brake is automatic, no need to deal with it. To stop : push the Start button. It puts the car in P automatically and applies the parking brake on its own. Done. The only reason to push P is to unlock the doors, or keep the car running while stopped. You’re overthinking this!
@@vegajf51 I like knowing the status of my car. I turned it off manually so I know it’s off. I’ll turn it on when I want to. Would I like a bit more logic in there, so it turns off if I forget to do it when I exit and lock it with the key outside the car? Of course. But the presence of a Start/Stop button is good, in my opinion.
@@vegajf51 He complained because he has more experience driving EVs without Start buttons, of which there are some, but not that many (Teslas, Rivians, GM Ultium and a few others). I’m weird like that : I like to have control over my stuff. I’ve been able to start and stop my cars myself for over 20 years. No need to change what works.
Great vid. I actually find it kind of interesting and amusing that the result wasn't too far off the time it took to get to Vegas, and was probably more comfortable, too.
That was quite eye opening. Just following the plan and optimizing everything only had 15 min difference? A full time for both races/all cars with charging times etc would be great.
EV9 Land owner here. Can confirm the dismal route planning. Ominous warnings the car would not have enough power from SAV to CHS destination several weeks ago..ignored and arrived at 9%. Overall, love the car except software, including route planning, which is probably beyond OTA fixes and just needs a complete overhaul. Great vid.
@@GenieFarms I really really love it despite the really, really bad software. Build quality is outstanding, its business class comfort across all three rows, the range and charging are impressive. It’s just the software that’s a nuisance.
@GenieFarms I have one since March. I drove already 15,000 Km with it. Drove from Portugal to the Netherlands. It's an amazing car! About the navigation, I need to read the manual better, some behaviors or maybe the prompts translation makes me think twice. I usually just pick my charging spots. I know how the car behaves and the way it consumes according to road condition. I would say that the navigation software is not probably for the casual user, but I admit that maybe I'm overthinking a bit.
General thoughts after finishing. The Tesla isn’t the greatest at anything just the most consistent across all aspects. This is why people will continue to choose Tesla over the arguably better equipped competition. Kyle was way too nice to the Mercedes. This is an amazing car with some absolutely gigantic software flaws. The demographic of the average Mercedes new car buyer would never accept screens shutting down while driving. That to me was the single most ridiculous measure to save energy I’ve ever seen an EV resort to. If my Dad were driving that car he would assume the car was in catastrophic electrical failure and immediately pull over. If your family is in the car, range anxiety skyrockets. I’ll give the Kia EV9 credit. It’s clearly tuned to ensure that anyone driving it will never feel the stress of range anxiety and regardless of what people who drive EVs all the time know to be true, range anxiety is absolutely a real thing for the rest of the early adopter EV population. Given the fact that you will likely have kids in the car as well, I don’t have a problem with the EV9 being so conservative that they nearly guarantee a family driving in their car won’t feel the stress. The Rivian disappointed me the most. Even when allowing a driver to set a very uncomfortable arrival percentage for the average driver it still couldn’t deliver. No need to beat a dead horse since Jordan did a great job articulating its challenges but it’s really hard to justify spending the money for the biggest battery pack that is limited by some of the strangest charging and weird navigation. The R1S feels just a little bit lost at the moment but if it just matched the charging performance of really any of the other vehicles could change its future entirely. R1S is my choice of vehicle of all of these, just not right now. Great video. Love where big EV is going.
As a current EV9 owner, you give the nav way too much credit. It is likely just a derivative of one from their ICE vehicles and is near worthless for road trips. The high frequency of stops is just because the logic is light years behind the other vehicles. With that being said, the EV9 is an incredible car despite those limitations.
I leased a ‘24 EQS SUV in late April and I’ve done a few road trips so far. Thank you for this incredibly informative video. I learned so much about my car from watching you guys drive it in this video.
Yea, both Tesla and EA need to update their chargers in Green River, both for the sake of OOS trips and that this town is a crucial point between the next biggest cities of Grand Junction, CO to the east and Salina, UT to the west.
If you watch closely, when the Rivian was trying to plug in to 03, Kyle accidentally activated 03 from the Mercedes. It throws both cars off a bit, so not the end of the world, but it costs the Rivian a few minutes.
@@TheReal_JG Great point. If I were EA or Tesla, I would prioritize upgrading the whole Denver-to-Vegas route just so their networks would shine in the OOS races.
18:40 “800 miles is a pretty normal day drive here in America” Makes it sound like a daily commute 🤣 For our European friends, it’s a normal *road tripping* day.
I can assure you, 800 miles in a day is not a normal road trip here. The most I ever did is around 700 miles in a single day, everything over that I would strongly consider breaking it up into 2 days. Most people I know are of a similar mindset. Maybe a special case, like Zagreb to Legoland Bilund, because it's mostly Autobahn with no speed limit.
lol, seems more controversial! I’m up in the PNW, so stuff is spread apart. I consider 800 miles about the upper limit for a comfortable day driving. I’ve done 1000 mile days in an EV and it’s a lot. 600 and below give you time to make stops and really enjoy the trip. I’ve done Seattle to SF and back a few times and that’s a nice day. I usually have time for a nice hour hike along the way :D It’s 70mph limits through those wide open roads and everyone’s going 85, so 800 miles is 10 hours of moving time.
It's an acceptable road tripping day. Not standard by any means. When driving multiple days, it depends how good the cruise control is to determine how much energy I have to make long drives
Unfortunately, there is too much cheating and optimization in this run. Used Google nav at one point, unplugged other cars, used charger tricks, speeding, utterly not represemtative of the real differences in inbuilt nav quality and the experience of the layman consumer. It's an important dataset, and they just about trashed it out of a desire to win over a desire to report accurate results.
Francie suggested the Rivian and I believe Kyle said OK. He cannot give her the Mercedes, it’s not his car, it’s a loaner and she needs it for a longer time.
Enjoyed it as always. Jordan did whatever he wanted and did not follow the route planner. He removed rivian chargers which most people wouldn’t do that. He was the only one who cancelled re ran the router software on multiple occasions. Guess I’m saying Jordan was a charger.
I would do it, but my wife won't let me. I had to struggle to get her to believe that arriving at the Trinidad, Co Supercharger with 14% battery was ok. Even the Tesla Navigation was trying to get me to stop at Pueblo, Co for a charge. ...And being hot or cold to increase range is right out. 😄
Model X win the first race big time. They drive with A/C all the time super chill while you were cooking hardcore with no A/C in the Mercedes and being drag behind a big truck. Th 5th floor endline is BS big time.
The EV9 route plans are as you say a little odd. I have noticed that it always wants to charge to the max settings you have chosen so I have lowered mine to 70% on roadtrips, but still it wants to stop way to early. Also mine charges the fastest if you stop at 15%, under 10% and it will take forever to get those 210kW and when you reach the peak it will start to go back again, as soon as at 65% on some occasions. Mine is a euro GT line and it’s an absolute fantastic car.
I’ve been waiting for this video for several years. I think most people who buy an EV are going to use their route planner and I think it’s important to know if it works.
After having owned 5 EVs I can confidently say Tesla is the only one I just trust. Chevy and Hyundai/Kia are awful. Ford sorta works. Tesla is pretty good. Tesla seems to be the only one to take speed, wind, and elevation into account properly.
I got excited when this video was announced.. but this is not the video I was hoping for. Their competitive egos skewed the results here. The wet rags, squeeling tires, panicking plugging in/unplugging, blocking each other, turning AC off while charging, unplugging other people cars. Also I’d suggest staggering the start times by an hour so you guys aren’t getting at chargers at the some time, more time trial style.
I had a Tesla 3, and now own a Y and did many road trips. In sections where there's low or no reception the Tesla's GPS does glitch out, where it makes zero cents and makes you very anxious and could get you lost. It's the multiple destinations that confuses the GPS. What you need to do when it glitches is just pick one reachable destination, like if the destination is very long and it tells you to stop multiple times to charge, cancel the trip and just only put in that first destination it wants you to charge at. If you leave it as is and you run into an area with no signal, it will freak out/glitch and change routes and could get you lost/stranded.
The area around St. George has fascinating geology. It's an intersection of the Colorado Plateau, the Nevada Basin, and the Mojave Desert and has elements of each.
The most interesting spec here is that the route planning in the Mercedes was only 13 minuets slower than the "Out of spec way" of charging. Not saving much time and less comfortable and more stressful with the "Out of spec way" and definitely more comfortable and less stressful with the "Mercedes rout planning way" or any route planning way other than the Kia which needs some work obviously.
Not sure why the Tesla X team didn’t use the TACC only when the AP wasn’t available ? Just swap the one pull to two pulls and use the TACC only. You could have the speed in check. Oh well 😅
My X has done this twice. TACC and regular CC are offline. I finally googled it, and I had to do a full shutdown of the car, lock it, and walk away for a few minutes. That brought it all back.
You can also do a camera calibration via the Service Menu I believe. It just deletes the current calibration and then starts over. Usually completes pretty fast though Tesla says it can take up to 100 miles.
All I want is a $35K 2 door EV convertible.... not a $200K Roadster.... not a targa or hardtop. Doesn't have to be sub 3 sec. 0-60. Just a fun car with 300 mile range.
Get a Miata if you want that kind of fun. The closest thing is the MG Cyberster, but idk if I want to trust Chinese made cars when those are catching fire. I'm sticking with my current Miata, Tesla, and Rivian for now.
@@TheReal_JG Tesla have cars using cells made by CATL and BYD, the "cars caught fires" thing is the same old FUD that hit Tesla years ago (and probably still ongoing).
Only problem with arriving with minimal, it PROBABLY leads to significantly more wear and tear on the battery. Tesla eg for the high nickel batteries suggest you don't go below 20%
If KIA Software in the Kia EV 6 and 9 are the same, you should adjust your minmum Charging in the Software. None, 50, 100 or 150+KW. You should do this. otherwise it sends you to the nearest, even if it is a 22kw Charger and a 300kw Charger is only 800 m (yards) "far" away. But you can set your EV information for consumption with all details. engine, clima, "light", battery etc. in a split screen. After nearly 2 years of owning a Kia EV 6 and three Software updates, still no good roadplaning yet but at least some kind of. I do not expect great improvements anymore. But if you do planing on your own. I guess can be a relative good car for long trips, because of fast charging. Nice to see what other brands offer.
@@GenieFarms It really depends on speed. So from 150 miles to 300 miles. My average consum of energy was 20,6KWH pro 100km on the last 25.000km. 1mile=1.6 km Lowest was 12kwh/100km at City driving. But up to 30kwh speeding 160km/h (100miles/h) or more.
If you think about it, I understand how the Bolt driver felt BUT since his charge limit is capped anyway he should have used the the 150kw charger to begin with. And leave the higher charging stations to everyone else. Just an opinion. He's free to charge wherever he likes TBF...
Yeah it’s a tricky situation. I would never unplug someone even if their charging wa done normally just for sheer risk factor. He should have never plugged into a 350 station when there’s slower available
Maybe this is a controversial opinion, but if my car was done charging and I wasn't back yet I would greatly appreciate someone unplugging me so that I don't get stuck with idle fees
Max should have never unplugged the Bolt. The idea that they could simply use a 150kw plug to complete their charging was not his decision to make. Also, in this case, the other teams were showing issues with the 150kw chargers. What if that driver already tried the 150kw plugs and was having issues with them. I'd be pretty upset if I was the Bolt driver.
I don’t know why ryan still uses Autopilot instead of FSD because on the highway its is smoother, and you can turn off lane changes which means it does the same thing as Autopilot. Newest version is also hands free
YES!! I've been waiting for this to post! My wife and kids are visiting family out of state today. Guess what I'm up to - you guessed it - Out of Spec Motoring!
The star here could have been the Kia, IF the software had allowed the car to use more of it's battery , with that charging curve , no brainer. Would love to see a contest using ABRP?
KIA EV9 - you are butchering this! I was a regular person in an EV6 and I could figure out that the system gives you several choices of which charges to choose. You should have chosen the farthest away it suggested not the closest!! The system only gives you a list of the chargers you can reach. Wow - Kyle you need to do this again with some peeps who have a clue!! The system doesn’t choose a charger it gives you a choice of several and you must choose from the list it gives you - duh! I like this because you can choose one near a restaurant you like or shopping etc. You keep saying it’s bottom up in the list but the charger listed at the top is actually the furthest away that you can reach - that would make it the first choice.
Doesn't look like it in the list. The arrival percentage was all over the place - Mesquit (Idk how to spell it) was 60+%, Cedar was 20+%, next station was Beaver with 50+%. Literally looks like it's planning charges. But it would make so much sense if what you're saying is right.
Rivian prioritizing their stations has not been my experience. I recently did a trip from TN to MN and back in my R1T and the Rivian software skipped over their new charger near Madison, WI on either leg. I wanted to stop there so I forced it to route there on the way up. I have had other occasions where it skipped it as it wasn't logical to stop there based on range.
the problem is they sometimes don’t connect to battery preconditioning, and not all cars allow you to manually precondition for faster charging before arriving at the charger. At least that’s the case in my MachE, where navigating to a charger with the in-car system DOES precondition.
Still watching over - not speeding forward which I normally do with not so interesting posts - this is a great format and I am learning a lot compared. Amazing how close all those car already - in normal life the difference wouldn't matter that much. I remember well that Tesla was the only game in town. Awesome "race to Vegas" and back, thank you guys I really enjoyed it.
I’m an EV6 owner for 2.5 years. The EV9 software looks different but has many of the same problems I have. I had hoped it would be much better now and it would be a reason to upgrade to the new EV6. I did a 2300 km round trip in June with 8 charging stops and have done many trips outside the range of the car where I needed at least 1 stop. I don’t agree with Max that the problem is the car doesn’t know it has a large battery. My EV6 also wants me to charge way too early, always above 20% and not unusual at +40%. It also tells me right after planning the route that it may not make it. As I drive it keeps telling me I cannot make it and I end up getting there with +15%. The car is way too pessimistic when planning the route. Opposite the guess-o-meter is always too optimistic even after hundreds of km and multiple charging stops the same day. I use ABRP and I suggest the Kia people basically copy it. I need an option to set my charge at destination like Mercedes. I need an option to set the lowest charge arriving at the charger (5% for me) and it needs to show me in the display expected arrival % even if negative (it cannot show negative) and it needs to stay on all the time. It also needs to tell me how far to charge before unplugging like you showed all other EVs do. How can Hyundai and Kia not do this. I love my car but I agree the route planning is bad. Some other parts of infotainment is complex and not intuitive but I have learned to live with it.
@@ryebread7562 the navigation is fine with me, never had an issue, the problem for me is only planning the charging. I’m in Europe and maybe the mapping is not as good in the U.S.
Max, don't ever do that again unless the vehicle is 100%. You may get your a** kicked or worse. Regardless if you are racing or not, to think you are more important than someone else is outrageous. Cheating was not part of the race rules, so you and Dominic are the losers.
I-70 through the San Rafael in the middle of Utah is in my opinion one of the most beautiful stretches of highway in the USA. Thanks for sharing it with us. Cheers
Wow! Just finished watching this nearly 3 hours video in one sitting. Thank you Out Of Spec for educating and entertaining. By the way I’m with team Food.😂
On the Kia choosing "fastest" sets the route planning to the equivalent of "short but many" on ABRP - which is likely what you'd want with two rows of screaming kids behind you. "Most Economical" would set the route planning to ABRP's "Few but long" equivalent.
So was the Rivian team even trying to win? They chose to give up efficiency by turning off Auto on the air suspension, one of the few advantages the R1 has over it's steel sprung competitors. Add in the self inflicted Green River C.F. and the Rivian should have been in the fight at the front of the pack instead of 40 minutes (just 40 minutes!) off the pace.
