85 mm BR-365P APCR VS Panther G Tank Armor # Armor Piercing Simulation

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This video presents, the 85mm/L52(D-5T) UBR-365P-APCR penetration against the Panther G Tank turret frontal armor plate.
This UBR 365 APCR is fired with 85 mm air defense gun M1939 (52-K) was an 85 mm (3.3 in) Soviet anti-aircraft gun, developed under guidance of leading Soviet designers. This gun was successfully used throughout the German-Soviet War against level bombers and other high- and medium-altitude targets.
Note: In actual, the core material is tungsten carbide but in simulation tungsten alloy is considered.
The Panther tank, officially Panzerkampfwagen V Panther (abbreviated PzKpfw V) with ordnance inventory designation: Sd.Kfz. 171, is a German medium tank of World War II. It was used on the Eastern and Western Fronts from mid-1943 to the end of the war in May 1945.The Pz.Kpfw. V Ausf. G (or the Panther G) is a rank IV German medium tank with a battle rating of 6.0 and 5.7. The Panther G improves upon its predecessor with an improved armor on the gun mantlet, lower glacis, sides, and roof, but has a cost of a slightly less powerful engine.
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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 240

@fabiusmaximuscunctator7390 2 года назад

Crazy how ineffective that projectile is, I honestly didn't expect that.

@zeppkfw 2 года назад

apcr is bad for angles

@swisscheese9997 2 года назад

Its apcr its the same as just using solid shot with no cap

@shepardpolska 2 года назад

It uses wrong core material in the simulation

@swisscheese9997 2 года назад

@@shepardpolska it doesn't matter apcr is still horrible at angles despite what material it is, apcbc is better than apcr because it uses the cap on the shell to counter sharp angles which then increases the chance of a penetration

@shepardpolska 2 года назад

@@swisscheese9997 it does matter as the simulation is still innacurate despite the rresoults All caps on APC shells do is reduce the chance of shattering, for a good angled performence you want a flat nose.

@danny2717 2 года назад

“We barely even scratched them”

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

Yes, It not able to penetrate the frontal armor plate.

@mr.waffentrager4400 2 года назад

Tell that to someone who denys angled Armor supremacy.

@marcalvarez4890 2 года назад

When i saw this, all i could think about was the terror those poor russian tankers must have felt. Tragedy. ...until the other 30,000 Russian T34s showed up to the party...

@neferpoyaz4037 2 года назад

@@marcalvarez4890 83.000 soviet tanks were destroyed in the war, germans had the number of 23K of tanks at all fronts, Even 30K soviet tanks can be stopped.

@rabiealkurba2520 2 года назад

"We didn't penetrate their armor"

@ZZZardoz762 2 года назад

The German crew wouldn't even bother reporting that to their insurance company.

@Joshua_N-A 2 года назад

Can you imagine had the Germans make the Panther right after Panzer 4 (I mean, it's called Panzer 5)?

@ondracekivo 2 года назад

From wider point of wiew they should stick with pzIV and modify its frontal armor to sloaped version. That way, they could have had gladly 8000 more pzIVs then 4000 Panthers. They tried it, but never finished the prototype.

@Joshua_N-A 2 года назад

@@ondracekivo Ausf. K wasn't it? Was the schmalturm also cosidered to be as its turret?

@topsecret1837 2 года назад

@@ondracekivo Honestly the Panzer V would’ve still been far superior seeing they were able to put a longer 75mm gun on that platform. On the Panzer IV they were clearly restricted by the flat frontal armor, the relatively small turret and by not having any tactical advantage over an M4A3 Sherman or worse, the T-34-85 by 1944. Getting the Panther design far more simplified, upgraded with a 88mm gun with a turret suitable for the test with an improved armor layout would’ve been key.

@YuukiHotaruu 2 года назад

@@ondracekivo 1000 pzIV and 1000 Tiger will all need 5000 crews to "run" them(5 crews each tank) And the crew training are what German really lacking during and toward the end of the war. Man power problem.

@IonPerseus 2 года назад

Actually panzer 5 project started way before actual panther reached battlefield. Pz V of that time was more like upgraded version of Pz IV but at the time of operation barbarossa only chassis was ready. However, during USSR invasion they encountered T-34,which was surprisingly effective against all german tanks of that time. Special comission was formed to study technology and engineering that was used in T-34 development. After that project of Pz V was drastically changed to 35 ton (correct me if I'm wrong) design with slopped armor and already existing chassis. That was the birth of actual pz V panther and that's why it came after the tiger

@ksp-crafter5907 2 года назад

Despite a heavy tungsten core ... with over 1000 m/S ??? 🤨 I'm not convinced about the accuracy of that simulation! Perhaps a digit error of the density attributes?

@enriqueouro9 2 года назад

The idea is to have a very fast very dense core, in exchange for lower weight. It follows a similar principle to sabot rounds, it's accurate.

@caatabatic 2 года назад

IKR the tungsten acte dlike it was made of silly putty.

@thewakeup5459 2 года назад

@@caatabatic I think whoever made the simulation accidentally applied the same attributes they used for the aluminum tip to the tungsten core

@caatabatic 2 года назад

@@thewakeup5459 I can see that happening. I need this soft ware to verify it myself. :P

@inakiaguirre9811 2 года назад

Panther g va t34/85

@t1e6x12 2 года назад

This simulation really doesn't look right.

@diarsaleh9326 2 года назад

It is just me or did it look like the outer shell is as hard or harder than the core

@Anlushac11 2 года назад

Seeing how easily the penetrator deforms without penetrating more makes me think the heat treatment was too soft.

@owensthilaire8189 2 года назад

I have read acounts of Panthers taking frontal hits from all kinds of crazy big stuff. In one report after 11 hits from 122mm's the crew pulled out of the line and drove back to the depot. The tank could only drive in reverse and only had 1st and 2 nd R. The turret was jammed, the welds on the hull were separating and a direct hit to the mantlet had pushed the gun site into the Gunners eye severely wounding him. Tough fucking tank.

@maastomunkki 2 года назад

I would not give too much weight on such accounts. It does sound impressive, and maybe some parts of it could have even happened, but then again, there are plenty of incredible war stories going around these days and some of them even reach official records, but way too many of them are somewhat detached from real events and after some scrutiny is applied to the mix they, more often than not, crumble to dust. War is war and exaggerated stories have always spawned from such times. They are good stories, but to tell them as factual truths after so much time has passed is a bit silly.

@owensthilaire8189 2 года назад

@@maastomunkki In point of fact the story I mentioned is/was compiled from after action reports and commendation recommendations. I read rather a lot. It always disgusts me a little when some arm chair expert criticizes actual fighting men that are no longer here to counter such persons. Truth is stranger than fiction.

@maastomunkki 2 года назад

@@owensthilaire8189 Fair enough. But since my view of things disgusts you there is very little point in continuing this discussion. Have a nice evening and my apologies for the discomfort I may have caused.

@antoniogomes4975 2 года назад

At the risk of also "disgusting" you, that account was BS. German late armour was crap quality. Also, the ZF AK 7-200 transmission on PzKpfw V only had 1 reverse gear. Transmission was so bad the a few 122mm's hits couldnt make it worse. Wehraboo alert

@owensthilaire8189 2 года назад

@@antoniogomes4975 Meh. Believe what you like. Though I have since rechecked my sources and it was a jagdpanther not a panther. In any case believe what you like.

@Mathosalpha 2 года назад

You keep getting materials wrong on these shots. The carrier body should be steel bar stock, the core should be tungsten Carbide with a nickel binder, and I'll have to look at the metallurgy docs again, the cap is indeed cast aluminum alloy. Core weight is 1.38lb (625.9g) Rockwell A hardness is 88, Steel bar Stock hardness is around 156bhn, and around 55bhn for the aluminum alloy which means it's a rather low tensile and yield strength alloy.

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

Thank you for the information. We will update this simulation. But still, I think it will not penetrate.

@user-yc1xe1pd1f 2 года назад

@@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 but it perhaps won’t look like 12,7 mm penetration 😂

@Boomchacle 2 года назад

Where do you get information and specs about these projectiles by the way? It's very weird that the shell has a solid aluminum ballistic cap because it seems to really mess with it's angled performance.

@alexthegreat5009 2 года назад

Apcr sucks against angled armor

@KarlKeesel 2 года назад

It has higher penetration but work on flat surfaces or with a slight slope, this slope is way to much for this kind of round

@sawyernorthrop4078 2 года назад

APCR is essentially APDS without separating the sabot, since it's really hard to design a sabot that will separate without hindering the accuracy

@owensthilaire8189 2 года назад

This was the early days of the gun armor race. Many new ideas were being tried. Remember, these were desperate days and these were new ideas and even relatively new metals in many cases. There was no auto- cad back in 1944.

@len.216 Год назад

*W A R T H U N D E R*

@majestatycznyimbryczek8749 2 года назад

I am not surprsied that APCR performs poorly against slopped armour. Try regular AP. Also you could refere distance to velocity - it would be good to know what distance it is (approximately).

@nicm.z9868 2 года назад

I don't remember tungsten carbide being that soft.

@Zigmmaaaaarrssss 2 года назад

it's not soft, but at high speed being brittle is just as equal as soft. Add an angle and it basically uses it's ductility to make it thin.

@utzius8003 2 года назад

@@Zigmmaaaaarrssss Look at it, it deformed no different than the Aluminium.

@Senekha86 2 года назад

@@utzius8003 I looked at it, and it deformed much different than the Aluminium. The Aluminium didnt penetrate the hull at all. The core penetrated the Aluminium lower body, hit the plate, and got deflected mostly. The upper Alumium body didnt penetrated the core at all. -> The core is much harder than the body.

@namelamus8476 2 года назад

do you have idea how much armor penerated this round? in the simulation looked like 20-30mm max

@marcelfischer1081 2 года назад

Because of APCR is pretty weak against angled Armor

@MaxRavenclaw 2 года назад

It might be because of the slope, or maybe the sim is just using the wrong inputs, but the round should penetrate well over 100mm of armour at most ranges. up to 170 at close range. That's probably not enough to punch through the Panther glacis, but it should lead to more damage than show here.

@osmacar5331 2 года назад

@@marcelfischer1081 uh... no it's really not, it was designed to go through angles and thick armour, that shell has more than enough pen to go through the panther at the front, one of the tanks it was made to defeat

@troy8349 2 года назад

@@osmacar5331 Because the APCR still has its soft metal layer around the core, it has a poor kinetic energy to drag ratio, so it loses penetration quickly. And when it hits an angled armor plate, the soft layers hit the armor first and flatten the tip. This creates the opposite effect as a caped shell does, worsening the angle of penetration and increasing the bounce chance. On top of that, the low total mass combined with still large impact area (form the soft layers) makes it easier to deflect.

@novanchiem4643 2 года назад

u must be know that APCR is very easy to get defeat by angle armor ?

@josephahner3031 2 года назад

Calling late war German armor plate RHA is very optimistic.

@utzius8003 2 года назад

RHA, more like Random Hardness Aluminium.

@emil-1609 2 года назад

Would still prefer to sit in one of these than any soviet made ww2 tank

@tonyennis1787 Год назад

Velocity of the round is listed as 1050 meters per second squared. That's some smokin' acceleration.

@ukuskota4106 2 года назад

looks like it is not tungsten core

@egormikhailov5806 2 года назад

Так понимаю снаряд был весь алюминивый

@olegmorozov5039 2 года назад

С хуя ли, сердечник полиэтилен !

@torno86x Год назад

Неё. Свинцовый. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@user-tk6pq7ch7v Год назад

THIS IS THE REAL ARMOR PENETRATION SIMULATOR!!! GOOD VIDEO !!

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

85mm UBR 365P APCR is unable to penetrate the armor plate. Might ballistic Al alloy material of BR-365 APCR Body is not hard enough to penetrate the 80 mm armor plate. What do you think ?

@Colonel_Overkill 2 года назад

Unless the soviets used extremely soft tungsten alloy for the shot it seems like the penetrator lost integrity too easily. It didnt even look like the behavior of the wolfram was very different to the aluminum.

@TWMSR 2 года назад

Core from simulation deforms during penetration. APCR used rigid cores, made of tungsten carbide. Tungsten carbide does not erode like tungsten alloy, it could break, it could turn into a powder, but it would not deform in such way you showed. There must be some flaw in your data feed.

@jokubasvanagas3174 2 года назад

There's just something awfully wrong with this simulation

@richardb75 2 года назад

FYI, the main body of UBR-365P is Steel not Aluminium, the ballistic nose cap is Aluminium. Eitherway, I doubt it’ll make a noticeable difference to the outcome.

@object703II Год назад

I think an American short-barreled 75mm M3 can pierce tiger2's front armor lol lousy Soviets

@user-tc9sk4ei9y Год назад

We definitely know the exact armor-piercing capabilities of BR-365 rounds family in both real combat environment and in post-war testings. BR-365P is capable of penetration 80 mm 60 degree slopped armor at 1000 meters. If a simulation do not support that then the model is wrong in some way

@Dodo-ze5ep 2 года назад

No way it's that bad...

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

Yes, It not able to penetrate the frontal armor plate.

@Mig_G_hoser 2 года назад

Well, apcr is terrible at againsting sloped armour.

@the_burger 2 года назад

@@Mig_G_hoser Pretty sure thats a myth

@TheGooberOfGoobs 2 года назад

@@the_burger That is a myth for the most part, but that also depends on the alloy used in the penetrator, its velocity, angle of impact, hardness and thickness of plate, etc.

@jokubasvanagas3174 2 года назад

@@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 your simulation is bad, it seems like the tungsten core is just as soft as the rest of the shell.

@MrBanderaSS 2 года назад

Ни в одном воспоминании танкистов, что воевали на Т-34-85 не было упоминаний о проблемах с пробитием PzV Panter с реальных дистанций боя.

@destroyerarmor2846 2 года назад

Doubt if

@MrBanderaSS 2 года назад

@@destroyerarmor2846 Because the quality of armor due to the shortage of alloying additives from Norway was depressing, especially at the end of the war.

@olegmorozov5039 2 года назад

Ты посмотри как их 90 мм шьёт Пантеру- как бумажную!

@franklinhadick2866 Год назад

According to real life testing by the allied forces in the months after D-day, NO allied antitank guns could penetrate the front armour of a Panther tank, look it up, the only exeption was the 17 ponder with the HVAP round, it couldnt even hit the tank at 500 yards. Its out there just look it up. For a side note the front armour of a Panther was equal to 8 inches of Tiger 1 front armour.

@CptAngelKGaming 10 месяцев назад

I believe the is2 penetrated it and it came out the other side. The Tiger 2 front though couldn't be penetrated.

@franklinhadick2866 10 месяцев назад

Umm the IS1 had the 85 mm, it was proving to be unable to deal with the Panthers and later tanks that were starting to appear, they wanted the 100mm to go on the IS2 but the ammunition wasn't there yet so they went with the 122 mm, they called the 100mm gunned vehicles, "Cat killers". If I recall something like 2500 were built during the war.@@CptAngelKGaming

@thegamingpanther3543 2 года назад

Don't use APCR for angled armor

@FPVteam-gp3pn Год назад

Даже если эти расчеты верны , в чем я очень сильно сомневаюсь , тогда немецким танкистам должно быть стыдно вдвойне , с таким преимуществом в броне и орудии, все равно не устоять перед натиском советских танкистов.....

@henryksztacheta8543 Год назад

Ta symulacja jest gówno warta. Bzdury i tyle.

@boogiebomber2191 2 года назад

Daaamn, that plate didnt even cared shit

@canadaballplayz9999 Год назад

"Tis but a scratch! *_Literally._* "

@mr.waffentrager4400 2 года назад

Can you please test m48 patton apcr on the same plate, for comparison?

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

Okay !

@madmeh2929 6 месяцев назад

Rolf, someone is knocking on our door.

@jamesevans886 Год назад

It needed to be capped, ballistic capped to stop deflection by sloped armour. I wonder how it would go against the tiny Hetzer?

@kunstderfugue 4 дня назад

We didn't even scratch them!

@user-qy5em9xd2q 3 месяца назад

Good paint

@maniakovich Год назад

Вы серьезно? Вы будете рассказывать, что снаряд вошёл едва ли на сантиметр?

@rolandhunter 2 года назад

Panther VS IS-2?

@superknightlol 2 года назад

people saying these test are wrong when in fact ww2 usage of these round were bad against sloped armor plus its expensive to make.

@CrniWuk 2 года назад

Well if simulations would be the most accurate way to know everything, then no one would actually bother with test firing guns and rounds anymore. I am not saying the simulation is wrong. But it's just that. A simulation.

@utzius8003 2 года назад

Look, there is zero difference in the behavior of the Aluminium jacket and the Tungsten core, something is fishy here.

@johnathancooper3897 2 года назад

Can you try the 85mm BR-367 stuff?

@richardque4952 2 года назад

Chinese firm developed apds fs round for the 85mm gun.

@comrade607 2 года назад

What about BR-365A vs Panther?

@Manu10900 2 года назад

That has more possibilities, its made to defeat sloped armor, but still it will be difficult to pen, too little mass in the 85, a 122mm BR-471B would instead go trough like butter

@tomscoolgames7616 Год назад

APCR is terrible against angles, it is a well known fact that all APCR rounds are nearly incapable of penetrating angled armour

@abaj006 2 года назад

WWII APCR was useless against sloped armor.

@KayserEin Год назад

That would have been deafening for the crew

@boydgrandy5769 Год назад

Late war German rolled composite armor was not very good, as they had run out of proper alloying elements and the heat treating system actually used resulted in very brittle plates with compromised tensile toughness.. In addition, the welds on these tanks, between plates, tended to be brittle also. This round had a very good chance of shattering the plate at point of impact and, at a minimum, cracking the welds around the MG bulge and those of the front plate to the side plates.

@macieksoft 2 года назад

Looks like airgun pellet and even bounces like airgun pellet ;-)

@TinyBlitz8 Год назад

I wonder how the Soviets won against German tanks when they mostly used T-34s with 57, 75 and 85 mm canons against German medium Panther and heavy tanks like Tiger Is. Must have been a massive tank tidal wave that hit Germany.

@panterka.f Год назад

SU85, SU100, IS2, massive fucking artillery barrages and a good doze of RUSSIAN AUDACITY You cant stop Soviet 1944 offensive, its unstoppable. Quantity of t34s also allows for a nice tactical advatage, as EACH of them is perfectly capable unit, that can flank any tanks and annihilate infantry, if any difficult problem appears, there are tank destroyers like su100, 152, 122. Tons of different kinds of artillery that wont care be their target an infantry unit or a king tiger platoon. edit. : i dont remember any credible source mentioning panther invincibility for the 85mm zis s53 cannon, its a great cannon with lots of ammo and at distances they were fighting in the East(1km and less) t34 85 were able to pen the frontal plate of pz5.

@CCP-Dissident 5 месяцев назад

Germany made 6000 panthers, 1200+ Tiger 1, 400+ Tiger II and other thousands of Panzer IV and Stugs in the entire war. They stand no chance against the superior number of Soviet tanks. In 1944 alone, Soviet Union produced 10,000 T-34-85

@GumMonster1 Год назад

why any tank gunner would shoot an APCR round at the most angled plate of a tank is besides me... but pretty cool how you modeled in the tungsten core and the aluminium body but the core simply splattered like a lead musket ball. not very realistic. the panthers front upper plate doesnt stand a chance against the 122mm cannon in the IS series of tanks. Wonder why the Soviets didnt make APCR for the 122? Surely the penetrative force would've been immense.

@bossilays_i 2 года назад

Panther : you should aim for the head

@slobodanmitic1354 2 года назад

This can't be relevant. You have clearly made some mistake.

@ksp-crafter5907 2 года назад

👍

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

The simulation is correct based on the inputs shown in the video

@Tookan69 2 года назад

Not sure why you're displaying APCR striking angles when they were designed for flat surfaces.

@danielkaufmann7713 Месяц назад

Für mich kaum glaubhaft dass ein AP Geschoss mit 1050m/s dermassen wenig Wirkung hat.

@adambuchta8755 2 года назад

Next pls panther shot vs sherman jumbo hull

@Ingris1441 2 года назад

What ranges are you setting these sims at

@user-ov7ci8tp8v Год назад

Tf is it made out of, gelatin?

@Nikodim_Gorobets 2 года назад

but the tough reality destroy such kind of experiment - to the time UBR-365P appeared nazi lost their main manganese mines. This fact force them to change armor steel properties and it became merely fragile - for instance, there are a lot of photos with a cracked hole in frontal armour plates of Pz. V made by 122 mm shells, which also cannot penetrate it, in theory. So there is no absolut gurantee for preventing penetration of this rounds, as it is shown for theretical КРФ material's characteristics.

@V-V1875-h 2 года назад

Yes, worked against the Tiger 2 as well. The armor became brittle like on the T34, but not because it was made too hard

@Nikodim_Gorobets 2 года назад

@@V-V1875-h i didn't heard about this fact. our veterans wrote about a secondary projectiles in case of hitting by a serious rounds without penetrstion. that was a problem of T34, actually.

@V-V1875-h 2 года назад

@@Nikodim_Gorobets the reason why you dont hear it from veterans is because the tank crew had a very low survival chance after being hit, the armor was hardened to 600 brenel, so twice as hard but a high velocity projectile would spall and shatter the entire plate killing all crew

@V-V1875-h 2 года назад

Also Panthers late war got their armor shattered by even the 76mil

@stewartmillen7708 2 года назад

Actually, the 122 mm A-19 or D-25 routinely penetrated the Panther's hull, according to battlefield reports, well past 2000 meters. Of course, overmatching is also a consideration with this impact.

@mafiosomemer3730 Год назад

*Wir haben sie nicht mal angekratzt!*

@berserkguts4185 Год назад

How much ammo types weight and velocity?

@thomaswillians5714 2 года назад

Say this to War Thunder

@-Ryan_Gasoline- Год назад

Can people stop using APCR for angled targets because they're pretty shit at it. An 85mm armor piercing, high explosive, capped, ballistic capped shells would penetrate that thing better, maybe two shots on the same spot would be able to pen that.

@michylogos4612 2 года назад

Did u angle today?

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

what ?

@michylogos4612 2 года назад

Nothing dude

@CatShak 2 года назад

what the music name?

@Bungerbrown Год назад

This channel is not at all factual, this is likely incorrect because if you view the 75 mm APCBR against an M2 Sherman and the shell just voices off then too.

@pl-0115 2 года назад

"That one didnt go through"

@kingofgameing2774 2 года назад

War thunder moment

@user-oe2qx7sm7s 2 года назад

Броня что твёрже сердечника?))

@user-ev8fv9lv1v 2 года назад

криптонитовая

@V-V1875-h 2 года назад

Shouldn't be I think

@mrj4990 2 года назад

If your videos were just 30 or so seconds shorter you would get way more views with RU-vid’s algorithm

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 года назад

Will try to upload few shorts videos too !

@brunus0159 2 года назад

It's really that bad?

@CCP-Dissident 5 месяцев назад

So war thunder wasn't really wrong about the shitty apcr shell

@inakiaguirre9811 2 года назад

Panther g vs t34/85

@tonyennis1787 Год назад

One of the worst performing projectiles we've ever seen here.

@Commando_224-jd7wl 4 месяца назад

That shell was outright pathetic💀

@rapipocudo8690 2 года назад

My first reaction: No F×××××× way

@cleemccarthy1022 2 года назад

Somebody hear something??

@matthelord7695 2 месяца назад

yeah your material seem extremely wrong

@jetfighter200 2 года назад

one lucky panther

@moistmike4150 2 года назад

Wow! Panther G frontal armor was OP!

@Mandrak789 2 года назад

this looks very wrong even the .50 cal would make a dent this size

@markolysynchuk5264 2 года назад

i didn't think it's so weak

@notsureyou 2 года назад

So unable to penetrate even at point blank range...

@the_burger 2 года назад

Lol

@richardque1036 2 года назад

Interesting,during the korea war,M-24 tank survive hit from a 85mm ap rd. Fire from north korea t34/85.

@scrubsrc4084 Год назад

Panthers armer was not rha

@utzius8003 2 года назад

I've seen pictures a Tiger II frontally penetrated by a subcaliber shell in a theater where the soviets only had access to 76.2mm cannons, so I doubt the 85mm shell would have any trouble at all passing through the frontal plate of a Panther.