Lance stopped by to help tear down the engine in his 4016 today. Miss budwiser was brought in for an oil leak that was determined to be from internal engine damage. / indianadiesel
Seeing that gaffed up head is just a reminder of where we are as a nation these days. It's hard to find anyone that can flip a hamburger correctly let alone do proper machine work.
@@macelius. Absolutely. Thank God lots of high schools are bringing them back using special grant money. Getting voters to approve bonds to fund programs like those is pulling hens teeth. Short sighted ignoRANTce. Especially now with an entire trained workforce retiring or dying off. I love that the PBS show This Old House has started a mentor program that has young people learning every trade needed to rehab an old house. You can catch episodes on the Pluto TV app along with the Ask This Old House show. Even at my age with experience restoring the 100 hundred year old farm house growing up we moved into in 1960 when I was 6 I've learned some real handy DYI tricks.
This was a great video. Thanks Tyler, BGM and Lance. Hey, Lance, thanks for the background info on the 4106 and the engine design and performance tweaking, that was super interesting. And the F16 is one of my favorite jets. Cheers!
The 4106’s were a well built bus, Continental Trailways had very few of them, mostly Silver Eagles and Golden Eagles, but Carolina Trailways out of Raleigh NC had a whole fleet of them.
G'day Tyler, Kevin here from Australia. Very interesting video. Lance is one who should do a live chat with yourself and your dad. The three of you combined would make fantastic entertainment. Very knowledgeable . Anyhoo stay safe and healthy guys. ✌ Peace
That would be nice, as he can explain things really well and as you say he has a ton of knowledge. When I saw the first BGM video's with Lance he appeared to be a somewhat grumpy guy who didn't talk much. I guess he's one of those guys who has to get to know you to open up.
I think i know what lance was referring to, back in the early 70's dad drove for trailways and later grayline there was a story about a driver that had a speeding ticket framed on the wall of his house for doing 102mph in a 4104 out on us41. Back in those days drivers would run deadhead back from Tampa to Miami, with only mail in the bays the bus was light and would haul ass. Iirc you would lift up on the break a click or 2 and trip the high idle feature and bypass the speed governor. The high idle was there for the aircon while in the terminal picking up passengers. Wish i could verify the story more but dad passed a couple years ago.
You are correct. The fast idle was only meant to operate with the park brake on. If lifted the park brake handle about one or two clicks, it would allow the fast idle to engage. However there is a clamping cylinder on the top of the governor that is supposed lock the throttle linkage in the idle position. If the throttle lever is not locked in place with fast idle on, you had an engine without a govenor if you moved the throttle lever. The trick was to be pushing down the throttle, pull up the hand brake lever about two clicks and turn on the fast idle. The piston from the clamping cylinder would come out but would not be able to lock the throttle because it would go right by it instead of pinning it at idle.
As one who tried to keep up with a Dog one night I can attest to the 90 + MPH speed. There is an old truckers song that says something to the effect that god before I go please let me pass one Greyhound bus
@@macelius Headed south out of Alb in the 70s, 67 Mustang 2 barrel 289 with 2.80 gears in the rear 4 gear foot flat on the floor and that damn dog just kept pulling away. Driver was on the CB egging me on
Wow Tyler, it’s so obvious you know your stuff. It was amazing in some of your previous videos where you pull up in your truck to fix a broken down piece of equipment on site. The next thing I knew you would have it running and you were so young but you knew your stuff. Now on Lances bus you start a methodical tear down and don’t blink an eye about it, you just do it - a man of action and your type is needed more than ever in this country.
Hey Lance at least when this motor goes back together you know it’ll be 100% right! These two blokes take great pride in Thier work, great to see! 🇦🇺🍺🍺🍺🍺
Hey Lance! Your story of the second notch reminded me of a story told to me 60 years ago by a Greyhound driver. The way the story went, as I remember, was that you could let off on the throttle to relieve the tension on the transmission gears and ease the shifter toward neutral to disengage the governor and away you'd go. He said that one bus he drove must have had forth gear so worn in this almost neutral position that it was almost like shifting into another gear. These are memories from my preteen years so take them for what they are worth. Thinking about it now might it have had a maximum speed limiter engaged by the shift linkage independent of the engine governor?
Most of the knowledgeable guys that knew these engines are retired or passed away. It’s an amazing testimony to these engines that they out lived two generations that kept them running. Glad you’re standing in the gap and keeping them going.
Working a Detroit, let alone old school Cummins like the 335 (I think it’s a part of the NT series engines, open to correction, a CAT V-8, or a MACK Econodyne engine are quickly becoming a lost art. Thankfully in a hundred years from now that future mechanic can pull up these videos up and get a good idea of what to do
Tyler you've come a long way with your mechanics ability I am glad to see you at the bgm ranch with your dad, pretty solid f ok and there with the odd compression per cylinder and the weird scoring on the sleeves to the mutilated head surfaces I'm impressed that it even ran at all we sent a 350 Cummins to a shop to have a full rebuild once and within 45 minutes the mechanic was calling us and.asking who did the previous rebuild on it. We went to his shop and he pulled the oil pan off and there was left over main bearing pieces in the oil pan and there were cracks all throughout the heads.... pride and workmanship are a rare thing these days...
He kept referring to an F-16 having a radial engine? In my mind when you say radial engine I'm thinking world war II piston engine and a F-16 would have a jet engine??
Contact me if you need any Kentmore tools I have all my old tuneup tools liner loader, 71,92, 149 seal installer tools, brand new, set a tuneup tools untouched and my use ones. I always bought two of everything blower rebuild tool sets I would build all my own blowers, never trust, rely a junk
I have limited experience with turbine engines so to everybody who responded to my questions earlier thank you very much !! I spent 4 years in the United States Marine corps servicing uh-1n Huey helicopters !!! They were a twin engine gas turbine helicopter , I have just never heard of a turbin engine being referred to as a radial
Having been around Cummins engines of the same vintage it always amazed me the few times i was ever inside of a detroit 2 cycle as to how they lasted as long as they did. But on the other side of it when it came to V8s Detroits could make the power and torque with a longer stroke than either of the cummins or cats v8s of the times did .There is no question that the 2-cycle uniflow diesel engine design is more efficient than a 4-stroke and has a higher power to weight ratio.... the biggest, most efficient engines in the world are all 2-cycle. (EMD, Wartsila-Sulzer, etc) But unfortunately Detroit did little to improve the design of these engines over the years. Computer modeling to fine tune cam and port timing, electronic common-rail injection, modern materials and tolerances, etc. and the 2-cycle Detroit could have kept up rather than fall by the wayside.
The inherent design limitations of the two cycle engine could not keep up with the changing emission standards. There’s only so much that could be done to tweak emissions. It’s ironic, that these engines were discontinued in the search for low emission engine designs that did not require add-on controls. Since the industry was eventually forced to use add-on emission controls, these engines could still be sold today. With HUEI , common rail and DDEC they would still be a great engine.
Back in the day when we use to work on DD’s, we would pull off intake and leave the screen on blower, and then wipe screen with varsol rag and duct tape so no foreign matter can get in blower.
I was screaming no don’t pull that screen/gasket up when he started pulling it up. When I was just starting to work on cars and trucks in my mid teens my first mentor drove it into my head (sometimes with a slap to the back of my head) that anytime you opened an engine up starting with removing the air cleaner you put something be it a clean rag that you taped down, a pice of card that you taped in place, or a plastic cap, etc you always put something over an open engine to prevent FOD (Foreign Objects or Debris) from getting into the engine. As for the surface of the cylinder head my bet is some idjit used a “body grinder” (air powered pistol grip grinder “body-men” commonly use to prep panels for plug welding etc.) to remove the old gasket in the days before scotch-brite oatmeal cookies, plastic finger wheels etc or they were just to lazy to take the time to hand scrape the.surface. Many years ago I discovered a carbide edged gasket scraper by Innovative Tools International called the “Super Scraper” and between using a properly sharpened gasket scraper from MAC or Snap-on and Super Scraper you can with a little practical cleaner a cylinder head as fast as using die grinder and Scotch-Brite oatmeal cookies etc and you not buying the “oatmeal cookies” quickly pays for the Super Scraper and the saves you money plus almost eliminates (unless you are an Idjit) the chance to damage the surface you are cleaning.
@@gullreefclub The Super Scraper is fantastic. I have one of the originals but I noticed just about every tool truck now carries them under the truck brand or Lisle.
Great video I love hearing lance share is thoughts and knowledge with us. Would love to hear more fromlance on his thoughts and knowledge about buses and DD's. Tyler you have come a long way since I first started watching your videos. Keep up the great work buddy!!
Looks like the surface on the last reman exchange head I got from the Cat house, good help is hard to find, they did make it good with a two week turn around.
Remember G.M. owned Allison air- craft engines from 1929-1995.The Allison automatic transmission came out during WW2 . G.M. built the buses for Greyhound with the large endless pit of money that the dog had at that time Freightliner also had a truck with a Cummins diesel en- gine with guick dis- connects that could be changed in a short amount of time. This engine looks like no one had any knowledge of a two stroke or did not care. As I have said in other video replies, the Eagles used to blow by and many truck- ers would wonder what was the power in them. The ten speed spicer had a lot to do with it.
That was really childish the way you ripped off the blower screen, risking debris dropping into the air space. A little heat and a stanley blade would have unstuck it from the casting and saved twenty minutes of scraping, again risking something getting into the blower air space.
Hi all, OK, Just a short note, but, I have learned everything I know - so far- about Detroit diesels just by watching your and dads videos.. I`m not even a truck mechanic but an ex aero parts maker now aged 73 and still learning - thanks for the videos.. Ian - UK.
Somebody's pride was left on the wash-room floor when they put that engine together. Tyler was hoping to re-arrange their attitude glands, and I can't blame him in the least
Often People Get robbed By Mechanics & Machine shops!! There should be a book that goes with ever engine. & All Vehicles! weather gas or diesel. Same as to every repairers made. This would be very sweat! Event (""crooks running shops "') Swapping parts and whole engines Would Be Liable For Changes! And sellers Put in Prison! Who "Claim a Legitimate Rebuilds! Locked out on a budget!! & after court! Must Hire An Attorney!! Costs Go Way Up! They Laugh!! Especially In A Family Owned Court! Beware!
For the rest of America Bus & Industrial DD crowd.....engines of all age & size....all points N,S,E,W...."American Fleet Service" in Springfield, Mo are the "Who's Who" of & for Great DD finess! See Bob. What a Team!
I would build them in my shop paint them pretty snow, white I face every gasket surface. I would never have a leak out of them. my customer telling me he didn’t get his first leak for over two years.
What I use to do, when I was in high school and a parent's garage mechanic, I would take pictures of what I was tearing down. That's when Polaroid cameras were popular. I still did the way your doing the bagging and marking.
I used to build those engines with my eyes closed simple engines. I love those old Detroit I made a living for 21 years on them, but I worked on yachts.no dirty trucks.
So sad to see that engine in that condition. I'll definitely be following this build. Mine is still at CPS 3-weeks now. They've removed the head and sent it to Richards and waiting on the results if they can repair it or exchange for a Reliabilt replacement head. Since I didn't have the issue of pressure in the coolant tank prior to six pack injector replacement, I think I know what is wrong but will hold off that thought pending what Richards finds. As CPS refused to replace the injector cups as I requested back in Feb with injector replacements, I believe they incorrectly installed injector tip carbon seals wrong if they even installed them at all, and/or the oversized injector o-rings.
I have learned through experience that the cleanest, eat off the floor shops will gaslight you about repairs. One i remember was about the internal oil pump was bad. I knew it was external. Turned down their offer to repair. Turned out it wasn't even oil pump related. It was a bad oil filter that collapsed internally. $5 bucks vs. who knows how much . Your right Tyler, some have no pride or ethics in their occupation.
My dad used to talk about taking a panel up and using a vice grip on the linkage.don’t remember what that was but the extra speed trick sounds familiar it sure on how. Dad drove from early 50’s to early 70’s then worked in the credit union a while. Can’t ask he’s been gone 40 years at this point
Basically somebody took a wirebrush head and an air drill then wire brushed the head. I cant tell you how many junk head mechanics i have seen to do something like this. Turn around and Fk an entire engine up when it was just better to leave the heads alone instead of not paying the cost to a machine shop to get the heads properly milled.
Those Greyhound "super-tuned" 8v71s are probably all but gone. Only 4106 I've seen that still had the old oval-inspection cover 'dry-block' was mine, most all seem to have been swapped over to the newer style blocks once those came out in the 70s.
OOOHHH, WATCH OUT WHEN YOU PULL THAT HEAD OFF , SNAKES MIGHT JUMP OUT AT YA . I use to work on those engines back in 82 - 83 at the GMC heavy truck dealer , when there still was such a thing . still have all the specialty tools for working on those engines . was at a International dealer earlier this year , the young guys were sharp , and I told them that if you worked here back in the 70's and 80's you would be working on 2stroke DETROIT / CUMMINS / OR CAT / in these CORN BINDERS . when I said 2 stroke Detroit , THEY LOOKED AT ME LIKE I HAD 4 HEADS . HA HA HA HA . GOOD VIDEO , KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK . THE MACK GUY
Well, looks like whoever last rebuilt it didn't do a very good job. She'll be good went you guy's are done for sure. I agree with Lance with as many buses he has to get one on a frame ready to go as long as it's the same motor. It's a shame to see old parts not be saved for these old busses. Someone with allot of money, storage space and time needs to go out and collect them before being scrapped
Wow going 70mph at 1900rpm with 2-3lb radiator pressure. That badboy was a corvette of hauling engines. does any modern bigrig today match that? i know new in 2019 new volve truck rig day cabs were $100,000 +. Saw several customer come pick them up and stop by my old job for fuel and snacks.
Love the way you bag all the bolts, nuts and other small parts to individual components. We used to do that when we did engine and rotor transmission changes on Coast Guard Sikorsky HH52a SeaGuard amphibious helos and Engines changes on Grumman HU16e Albatross seaplanes. In fact ant system emwe tore down for whatever reason We also took before pictures to reference when we'd reassemble them. No fancy video cameras back then. I actually began doing it on small Engines, cars and motorcycles as a teen but those weren't zip lock bags so I sealed them with rubber bands.
Pretty upsetting to see the state of that head. You wouldn't be 100% surprised to see sloppy machine work on a run of the mill small block ford or chevy head coming out of any number of random "engine builder" machine shops that are splattered around the country in every town. But when you're talking about something as specialized as Detroit Diesel stuff there is absolutely no excuse. Especially for what people charge to do it. I think I remember Scott having some issues within the last 2-3 years or so on a 6-71 head.
I've seen broken pieces of rings go through the airbox into the next cylinder. Good luck adjusting the rack in chassis. Busses suck to work on. The most important part of cylinder head sealing is fire rings and the figure 8 gaskets. I've run across many a gouged out head that still gave many a mile of service.
I have a 1964 4106 I have had this bus for 28 years been everywhere in the us . I would like to send you pictures. You are truly one of the last bus guys 👍
How hard would it be to remove the entire engine/trans assembly without the craddle? I hate working in confined spaces. The older you get the less flexible you become.
Check that little link where the rack rods connect to in the governor carefully. We had issues with our 6V92 with the vertical pivot shaft. The needle bearings in the link had worn grooves in the pivot shaft and gave sloppy motion cutting down the amount of motion of our rack reducing ower. We found lots of lost motion in all the throttle linkages in our cab-over Volvo-White truck. Made for lower power and difficulty getting the HT754 to shift properly as the RPMs of the engine were too low. Once we rebuilt all the linkages and adjusted the travels things got much better. We probably should have replaced the link, shaft, and needle bearings but it ran ok with the other fixes. I was afraid of losing needles into the interior of the governor and where ever else they may have ended up.
@the Big Moose - Cut the head of four to six OEM head bolts, slot them gently with a thin.bladed angle grinder or a hacksaw and use a screwdriver to drive them down into the head - using them as guiding pins. Remove one by one and replace with OEM head bolts when head are securely in place. Be safe - live free. Blessings sent.
Lance talks about a Radial engine but he seems to be referring to a modern jet fighter. Do they consider jets Radial engines. When I hear Radial I think of a piston engine with cylinders arranged around the crank.
Nice story telling Lance, is it correct that the injectors on 3 and 4 are not the same protrusion, the fire pattern looks different, are you checking the injector protrusion like in "Setting up a detroit diesel 71 series head". Be safe.
Looks like the heads that come out of my schools engine machining course. It’s amazing how easy it is to screw up decking job if you don’t look at what the dials are telling you
I know both his sons know Detroit’s. It’s so awesome they will take dads trade into the future, past my time and God willing, his. I knew a USAF jet mechanic. He got me into the test cell and the engine shakes you to your core. Only good news is Miss Budweiser will have a fresh engine when they are done.
America was literally built with GM/Detroit Diesel power and that’s no exaggeration. From the interstate systems, skyscrapers, dams, bridges, etc Detroit was there.
wow it is sad to see things like that head. i know some old timers liked to let marks like that on heads thinking it helped to seal things up but i am happy to know most of those old timers can do this kind of crap any more.
Question for Detroit Diesel fans: It would appear that on the "V" engines, the fuel racks are equally adjusted for fuel delivery. Do you have to check for a richer, excessive, blackened exhaust on the rich bank side?
Hard to believe, but yeah, it started first crank, didn't hunt, and ran smooth and with decent power. Can only imagine how much better it'll run once it's back to factory specs.
Hi Tyler does Lance still have his MCI, I liked the older MCI’s when I worked at Trailways back in the 70’s in Charlotte, my favorite was the MCI-9. I still remember the first time I replaced a headlight on one, I didn’t realize the MCI’s were 24volt system’s …lol ya live and learn, the best method.
They did to the M4 Sherman Tank during WW II. Other models had two Detroit Diesel engines I believe. Scott worked on one in the past when Lenny was more ambulatory.
The head condition is probably down to this not being a greyhound from factory, but being a private coach. The rebuild guys probably knew they could get away with it because it wasn't greyhound.
