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9. Lost Indian Church Uncovers Truth About the Western Church 

John Falstaff
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In the year 52AD, the Apostle Thomas travelled to the east to spread the Good News. He founded a church that remained isolated from the west for centuries.

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26 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 57   
@DarthVader-ig6ci
@DarthVader-ig6ci 17 дней назад
I'm a St Thomas Christian, specifically belonging to the Syro-Malabar Church which follows the Eastern Syriac Rite and the Liturgy of St Addai and St Mari. If my family history is correct, I descent from one of the first families baptized by St Thomas. The Indian Catholic culture is a really interesting mixture of Middle eastern and Indian traditions.
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 17 дней назад
That is very interesting @DarthVader-ig6ci! Thank you for sharing.
@DarthVader-ig6ci
@DarthVader-ig6ci 17 дней назад
@@JohnFalstaffMedia you're welcome...it's a quite interesting community to learn about.
@thiagoulart
@thiagoulart 17 дней назад
After Thomas founded the church there, which bible canon did they adopt? And when?
@DarthVader-ig6ci
@DarthVader-ig6ci 17 дней назад
@@thiagoulart the Syriac Peshitta Bible, remember the Bible was standardised very later and as such many variations came into being. Until the St Thomas Christians came into touch with the Church of the East, it's possible that they were disorganised like most other Christian communities...they later came under the Church of the East. Prior to that event the St Thomas Christians likely practised a mix of Jewish traditions (Kerala had a strong Jewish presence long before the Christian arrival)along with non-standard Christian customs along with local Hindu traditions. It was rather isolated. Only when the contact with the Syriac traditions happened did a proper administration and hierarchy along with a proper liturgy occur. So it was not really following the Byzantine or the Latin teachings, but was independent and was influenced by the Church of the East. After the arrival of the Portuguese, they wanted to bring the St Thomas community closer to them and held the Synod of Diamper.There was a power struggle between the local bishops and Portuguese bishops (Latin church) and splits occurred within the St Thomas community regarding the liturgy and administration. It's a really complex story. An event occurred called the Oath on the Hunched Cross, where the local christians rejected the imposition of Latin rites. Later one group reconciled with the Roman catholic Church and became the Syro Malabar church (but they never adopted the Latin rite) and the one who stayed with the Syriac administration became the Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church. In Kerala today there are three prominent catholic communities, Syro-Malabar(Eastern Syriac rite), Syro-Malankara(Western Syriac rite, and not to be confused with the Syrian Orthodox Church)and the Latin Church (Latin rite). And many other smaller independent churches which are not part of the Catholic Church but are aligned to the Syriac traditions. Just remember, this is just the basic outline, there are far more things to it which makes the narrative more complicated and I'm not a particularly well versed person in this matter and might have made some mistakes in this.
@thiagoulart
@thiagoulart 17 дней назад
@@DarthVader-ig6ci now that's a mouthful 😁 So does the Peshitta really exclude most epistles and Revelation? Just googled it.
@rbauer
@rbauer 5 дней назад
Unexpected...but, amazing!
@ashleymendes7079
@ashleymendes7079 19 дней назад
The first hard evidence related to Christianity in India comes from the middle of the fourth century when a large group of Persian Christians fled the Great Persecution. They traveled to India and brought Christianity with them. This is the version most accepted by historians.
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 19 дней назад
What do you believe @ashleymendes7079?
@DarthVader-ig6ci
@DarthVader-ig6ci 17 дней назад
The community you are referring to is the Knanaya Catholics, they were led to India by Knai Thoma from Persia. There was an already existing Catholic community called the St Thomas Christians (also Catholics), when the Knanaya community arrived in Kerala. Today the Knanaya community is under the administration of the Syro-Malabar Church governed by the Kottayam Archepharcy and another group is under the Syrian Orthodox Church.
@ashleymendes7079
@ashleymendes7079 14 дней назад
⁠@@DarthVader-ig6ciIs there any hard evidence for the already existing Christian community?
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 14 дней назад
Friends, I posted a poll regarding Thomas in India. Please vote. THANK YOU!
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
@@ashleymendes7079Yes . The evidence is still alive. The descendants of pre- existing Christians and those reached in 3rd century are still two distinct communities.
@kevinclinton5813
@kevinclinton5813 17 дней назад
My Family traces its ancestry to the Pakalomattom family which if tradition is to believed was one of the earliest Hindu Brahmin families baptised by St Thomas. At the minute my family are members of the Eastern Orthodox Church under the Holy See of Constantinople !
@aleksandarstavric2226
@aleksandarstavric2226 17 дней назад
it's not "eastern othodox church" brother - only Orthodox Church or if you want authentic name of the OC , it is One Holly Catholic and Apostolic Church ! Also, Church is not "under" holly see of Constantinople 'cause we don't have supreme priest like roman catholics
@kevinclinton5813
@kevinclinton5813 17 дней назад
@@aleksandarstavric2226 I do understand that brother, but even though Constantinople is under the Turks now, the holy see of Constantinople is regarded as the genuine forerunner to orthodoxy ! But yes, you're right.
@ameyaanu6548
@ameyaanu6548 10 дней назад
In the first century they were no Brahmins in Kerala.
@Amal-kp8qb
@Amal-kp8qb 8 дней назад
@@ameyaanu6548 good that we had you there in the 1st century to tell us this fact
@BensWorkshop
@BensWorkshop 12 дней назад
Very interesting. Shows the original unity (to a point) of the original Church.
@K37GK3
@K37GK3 3 дня назад
Thank you, I was reading into this a while back. I think this is an excellent examples against the errors of sola scriptura.
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia День назад
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! @K37GK3
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
Bro, The Indian church was not isolated. Middle East was a centre of Christianity before Islam and we were part of ‘church of the East’. Much of Europe Christianised later only. After Europeans came in 16th century some become Catholic some adopted oriental orthodoxy , a few still part of Ancient Church of the East. Our liturgical Language is East Syriac which is a dialect of Aramaic the language that Jesus spoke. I myself Catholic but we are Sui Iuris church with own liturgy.
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 6 часов назад
Thank you for sharing your thoughts @jino867! It's great to hear the story from the other perspective. From the west the view is different. I appreciate your contribution.
@kynelighn
@kynelighn 8 дней назад
Amen hallelujah
@nicolasolivera4576
@nicolasolivera4576 19 дней назад
If I am not wrong the indians didn’t use any images, that’s what shocked the portuguese
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 19 дней назад
Thank you @nicolasolivera4576. I had not heard that!
@rdevil5330
@rdevil5330 17 дней назад
Indians did use images. St Thomas Christians kept icons, even in the oldest church still continuously active in the world.
@marthoma6th814
@marthoma6th814 17 дней назад
look-up"St Thomas cross". It was the primary symbol of Indian Christians
@nicolasolivera4576
@nicolasolivera4576 17 дней назад
@@rdevil5330 Well in a book called “The eclipse of christianity in Asia” written in 1933 says “when the roman catholic missionaries went to Malabar they found that the christians there did not use images and said, "we are christians, we do not worship images or idols" They were nestorians to be fair
@rdevil5330
@rdevil5330 11 дней назад
@@nicolasolivera4576 The Portuguese used statues which were novel to the Indians. And yes, Indian Nestorians had icons - imported from Syria. In fact, the oldest Indian church (continuously operated from the first century) still has icons. Indeed, Indian Nestorians had more icons than their counterparts in Iraq, who lost their icons due to Islamic iconoclasm.
@aduenamz2569
@aduenamz2569 17 дней назад
The baptists left the room...
@noahtylerpritchett2682
@noahtylerpritchett2682 14 дней назад
I often use St Thomas Christians existence to refute claims that Romans or Paul tampered Christianity. While we have Christians in India with familiar customs and practices. They had the gospel but can we say they had the Pauline Epistles prior to the existence of islam?
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 14 дней назад
Great questions @noahtylerpritchett2682. In my research for this video I discovered that other regions of India were influenced by later Christians of eastern confessions so there may have been some exchange around the 9th century or so. The archeological evidence from the first century is limited to some crosses (St Thomas cross) but I would not rule anything out.
@noahtylerpritchett2682
@noahtylerpritchett2682 14 дней назад
@@JohnFalstaffMedia i don't deny later doctrines or structures were exchanged. I have no doubt to deny that the Pauline Epistles came to the St Thomas Christians long after Muhammad created Islam.
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 14 дней назад
I see.
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
Bro, Our Bishops were from Church of the East. (Not orthodox or Catholic Church) If they had it we also had it.
@BenjaminJohnParallag
@BenjaminJohnParallag 10 дней назад
Does the church which st Thomas founded still stand today?
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 10 дней назад
Most people say yes and many Christians in India trace their roots back to him. However, some people claim that the first Christians in India came centuries later even though the later Christians mentioned in documents that Christians were already there. Thank you for commenting @BenjaminJohnParallag
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
Yes Bro. St.Thomas found 7 churches in Kerala and those churches and communities are still standing.
@taty9872
@taty9872 17 дней назад
I what happened to the audio
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 17 дней назад
HI @taty9872, I'm not sure. Kindly let me know what you are experiencing with the audio.
@mmanningnew
@mmanningnew 20 дней назад
interesting video.
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 20 дней назад
Glad you enjoyed it
@Nazarene_Judaism
@Nazarene_Judaism 12 дней назад
We are Nazarene jews. Nasrani means Nazarene
@AtheistVegan
@AtheistVegan 17 дней назад
CORRECT INDIA MAP
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 17 дней назад
Thanks for commenting. More details please @AtheistVegan.
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
Kashmir not seen
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
Lost? Seriously?. Largest Eastern Catholic Church - The Syro Malabar Catholic Church. We have dioceses not only in India but around the world. One of the Most thriving Christian community in the world currently .
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 5 часов назад
Thank you @Jino867. My traffic increased 500% once I started adding the words "secret", "hidden", "lost". The Syro Malabar Catholic Church is great. There is one near me here in the US
@alanjoseph4661
@alanjoseph4661 День назад
We still exist in Kerala
@hubokus
@hubokus 10 часов назад
Source?
@JohnFalstaffMedia
@JohnFalstaffMedia 9 часов назад
Thanks for asking @hubokus. Kindly let me know what specific claim you would like to know the source. Very fair question by the way. Thank you for commenting.
@Jino867
@Jino867 8 часов назад
Search Wikipedia for St. Thomas christians
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