A $20 Dovetail Saw that might be able to compete with the Premium Boutique Saws?

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For years I've been saying the quality of a hand saw is determined by the last person that has sharpened it and not it's price. But this could just be dogma I've embedded into my shtick or confirmation bias of not buying the nicer things because what I have is "good enough". So in the interest of figuring this out I bought a cheap $20 saw ($25 delivered) and did a half way job of fixing it up. Meaning I sharpened it. Such a monstrous difference from how it performed out of the box. But will it beat the best of the best in the boutique tool market such as Lie-Nielsen, Bad Axe, Bontz, Wenzloff, Florip, Skelton, Medallion and Veritas. Well to find out after I was done I sent it to Shannon Rogers of The Renaissance Woodworker Channel as he's got the expertise and experience to "Tell it as it is."
So here's my prep work for the dovetail saw battle. Tune in to Shannon's video for the result.
Shannon "The Renaissance Woodworker" Review here along with information on when/how he'll be giving the saw away: t.co/EUwmhCY6yu?amp=1
* My in depth video on saw maintenance and sharpening: • 1-03d: Saw Maintenance...
* Video on demystifying hand saws: • 1-03a: Hand Saws DeMys...
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RU-vid Channel - / renaissanceww
Website - www.renaissancewoodworker.com/
Hand Tool School - www.handtoolschool.net/
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Опубликовано:

23 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 104

@AutotechWoodworking 4 года назад

In the past I would buy a new back saw when the one I was using cut noticeably slower, so I have three inexpensive Stanley saws in varying stages of dullness, two that are just laying there unused. Using your sharpening video as a guide, I recently sharpened the one I have been using for many years, (I don't remember exactly how long I have had it), and the results were amazing! It cut so much better and faster, while producing a straighter cut and thinner kerf.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

They dull so slow you don't notice how far gone they've gotten until you sharpen them.

@michaelthompson5875 4 года назад

Funny enough I actually saw Shannon Rogers' video earlier today before seeing this. I like Shannon, he's a good teacher and I did purchase his first semester hand tool school so I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but he often seems to make excuses or find reasons to go with the most expensive tools on the market. Shawn, I want to thank you so much for your latest series. My woodworking seems to go in fits and starts because of life but one thing that bothers me is that if people see too many boutique tools they'll get discouraged by the price of entry into the craft. Of course cheap tools can be too far in the other direction but it's nice seeing someone try to go get into the middle ground. I'm loving the new series and I'm considering using your box joints for a wall hung chest. Very well done!

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Do it, and use yesterdays video for the shelves.

@dpbjlee83 4 года назад

I finally followed out what more exciting than watching paint DRY. Watch a saw being sharpened. lol I watched every minute and and grateful for you teaching methods. ALWAYS WORTH MY TIME

@wortheffort 4 года назад

but paint drying doesn't screech like a file.

@MrBillUp Год назад

I know this video is a good few years old now, but can you remember the size saw file you used to do the sharpening? Many thanks.

@DouglasASean 4 года назад

wow, I'm thinking about how much time tuning up my saws would save me now.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

and reduce frustration too!

@J.A.Smith2397 7 месяцев назад

Could we get another video on turning oval handled plz

@p1nesap 4 месяца назад

For sawing 1/2" wide, 10" long pieces of 3/4" thick walnut, what size back saw please, and pistol grip or straight handle? Thanks.

@johndavis8684 4 года назад

Hey man love your show I learn something every video. A quick question do you yourself run a school or have an apprenticeship. Woodworking is my passion.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Thanks, not anymore.

@MrGrutgrut 4 года назад

Great video. I think you need to grease your vice screw to fix this squeaking noise 😂...on my way to the sharpening station...

@wortheffort 4 года назад

and deny the audience the cringe factor.... never.

@ironmantooltime 4 года назад

@@wortheffort 😂

@bricsuc 4 года назад

Years ago, I started out with an even cheaper version of this saw, the one with a steel back instead of brass. I'm not sure if they make that version anymore. Much like you, I sharpened it at some point (can't seem to find a blog post saying when), and after that, it was great. I made a lot of stuff with it and never had a problem. I stopped using it only because I made a new saw to replace it.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Hope ya gave it away.

@bricsuc 4 года назад

@@wortheffort I did give it away, but wouldn't have felt bad about selling it.

@fritzer5151 11 месяцев назад

crown saw?what size file did you use to sharpen your

@stevehubner560 4 года назад

Looking forward to see the out come now!

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Uh, not sure what your saying here. It's still a saw....

@MinecraftMaker 4 года назад

That's no longer a $20 saw once you've spent a bunch of your time on fixing it up :) Nice video - thanks for sharing.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Well when you have more time than money....

@solidstatejake 2 года назад

Man, you have a beautiful workshop.

@AaronSprague1 4 года назад

Shannon Rogers is a fantastic teacher as well. It is great to see you doing a collaboration with him.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

yep

@dirdick43 4 года назад

Now I have to go out and sharpen MY cheap back saw in the PM heat. Great video.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

do it.

@drobb4207 4 года назад

Sean, you da man!

@wortheffort 4 года назад

who da man?

@chrisbeach2908 4 года назад

wortheffort you da man!

@billbyrd9845 2 года назад

Paul Sellers allows as how the sharpen-ability of a saw determines whether it's worth buying. Apparently, some saws are disposable. It seems I can buy a $20 saw and then buy lots of equipment to make it right. And if I buy a $250 Cosman saw, I'd still need the equipment to keep it right. Just how much would I need to spend on the equipment?

@wortheffort 2 года назад

You didn’t listen well to with Paul or I. Hardened teeth are designed not to be sharpened at expense of staying sharp much longer. A $3 file, 2x4 to squeeze the blade and clamps to do the squeezing is all need.

@autumn5592 10 месяцев назад

You can even sharpen those hardened ones with a 5-10 dollar file (diamond needle or 6 inch triangle depending on the tooth size.) It won't come out as nice, but it will be more than plenty sharp enough to cut with. You don't need hundreds in gizmos, and trinkets for sharpening a saw. You don't even need workholding to hold your saw. Just a file, and something to brace against (your workbench edge.)

@ironmantooltime 4 года назад

Was watching Rob Cosman last night and this popped into my recs. Probably watched a Cosman dovetail maybe 10 years ago and watching your utilitarian dovetail I think I finally get it. And the most important thing? The saw! Think I'd have to use a little saw for marking and a fancy scribe like Rob does though 😎

@wortheffort 4 года назад

No need. All it takes is sawing next to a line. You can color in the lines so you can saw to a line.

@ironmantooltime 4 года назад

@@wortheffort cheers man! 🙌

@UncleSarkis 4 года назад

Thank you so much for this.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Now go sharpen and saw something.

@markstowe3087 4 года назад

Love the education ... still want one of your mallets!!!

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Won't be harvesting this year, takes up to a year after harvesting to make them. Dunno how many times I need to say this.

@markstowe3087 4 года назад

wortheffort Thank you ...

@jamescullen1756 2 года назад

What brand is the $20 saw

@rockinrswoodshop 4 года назад

Well, I’m finally getting around to making a better workbench for myself. So after that gets done hopefully I can start collecting a few better tools. This should allow me to save a good bit of money! Thanks dude!

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Get to work dude.

@rockinrswoodshop 4 года назад

wortheffort got the workbench done except for placement and leveling! Less than $100 in materials.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Now mess it up using it.

@wrstew1272 2 года назад

Hacksaw with a 14 or so tooth blade will work in a pinch. Tighten it up and go for it. Won’t clear the dust as quickly, but if you are really in a money bind, it will cut. Too much kerf? Diamond stone/ India stone sides to thin the thickness of the blade. They are hardened more than a custom blade, so you probably won’t need to replace for ten thousand dovetails or so. Softwood would probably be 10/12 tpi for a quicker cut. The masters of the past didn’t have what we have available, and look at what they did.

@hassanal-mosawi6049 4 года назад

Thanks for sharing that

@aleksandrnevskiy5045 4 года назад

Hello!How many goudonov kept the file.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

I don't understand.

@heyseuss2201 4 года назад

This is a pull saw. I think Boris Godunov would be a PUSHkin saw.

@loucinci3922 4 года назад

Amazing. $20 saw. I totally need to sharpen my saws now...

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Get after it.

@sirtblairjr 4 года назад

So, you can get a Japanese saw that's what you should be asking and trying A lot of people want to go to it. Try it out..

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Sir.Tony Blair jr see in description my demystified video why I much prefer push.

@malcolmsmith5903 4 года назад

I think I need to get one of those vice screw squeals. Shannon's got one too so it's a must have. ;)

@wortheffort 4 года назад

trademarked.....

@fiberinspector1304 4 года назад

link to buy 20$ saw?

@wortheffort 4 года назад

This one was a Crown. Find them everywhere. It was only an example. Lots others in different makers/categories out there.

@fiberinspector1304 4 года назад

@@wortheffort Thank You

@738polarbear 4 года назад

Quite an eye opener that .

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Thanks

@vferdman 4 года назад

I am curious if you ever tried a Japanese style saw, like this? www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HYVW78L It costs under $30, has replaceable blades for about $17 and is super thin, sharp out of the box and comfortable to use. Not meant to be sharpened (but probably could be) and is, of course, a pull saw as Japanese saws are. As a newbie in dove tails, I tried classical inexpensive dove tail saw and had a horrible result (I did not sharpen it), but when I tried this Japanese saw I was blown away at how well the actual sawing part of the dove tailing went. I still need a lot of practice with other dove tailing aspects, but the saw aspect is SOLVED for me. Was wondering if you could review one of these. They are very inexpensive and I was very impressed.

@adrianabshire 4 года назад

Vladimir Ferdman the difference between a back/pull saw and a back/push saw is the body mechanics for each - the way you have to keep your body aligned for each to be efficient; I’m still learning all this stuff also...

@wortheffort 4 года назад

That is covered in my other sawing videos.

@mskulls83 4 года назад

Your vise screw needs some wax! Cool video

@wortheffort 4 года назад

And deny you the squeal? Never!

@dpbjlee83 4 года назад

No SMUUCH today. LOL

@wortheffort 4 года назад

No Smutz for you.

@dpbjlee83 4 года назад

finally I have the proper spelling lol thanks

@JackFright 8 месяцев назад

Okay, so Shannon doesn't like the gent's saw, Rex Krueger and James Wright seem to think that it's only any good for throwing in the trash. And yet, you have the Veritas and have used it for 10+ years. Why? For me, the gent's saw just seems the correct one for the tiny, thin stock I am working on. I don't own one yet. My only backsaw is a cheap Spears & Jackson tenon saw. Just wondering why the gent's saw is good in your eyes.

@wortheffort 8 месяцев назад

Because it works. Kids seem to use it more naturally too. Pull saws use a straight handle. I use both but for detail joinery I reach for that gent.

@JackFright 8 месяцев назад

@@wortheffort Thanks! I appreciate the response. It makes sense.

@jons2447 8 месяцев назад

Hello, Mr. Graham; *That's* what I'm talking about! Thank you so much for this! I just found it & I'm excited to learn this. I'll find or buy a cheapo on amazon & following your excellent example I'll tune it. Then I can learn to use it. Then I'll have a 'good' dovetail saw w/out spending $200-$300. Sounds like a plan. No I need to watch your video, "Making Panel Saws". Keep it up, pal, & I'll have to subscribe. Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!

@BradsWorkbench 4 года назад

I think this goes for alot of cheaper tools. If you dont have the money, you'll have to spend some time tuning.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

money vs time.... the perpetual conundrum.

@BradsWorkbench 4 года назад

Right!

@jimwilliams2682 4 года назад

After watching this video, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that all om saws desperately need sharpening. Guess I better get to work!

@wortheffort 4 года назад

Get after it.

@cindyharrison4191 Год назад

Thanks. It's the user not the tools that makes the difference. Now I need to sharpen my saw .

@wulf67 3 месяца назад

A $6.00 utility knife would cut as well as, if not better than, your $100 Buck knife. People who do quality work often value using quality tools for many of the same reasons.

@tpobrienjr 4 года назад

I have one of those $20 saws. Afraid to go look at it, probably will make me ashamed.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

sharpen and go.

@erichenao6537 4 года назад

$20 saw. How much for the saw stand and saw sharpening tools?

@wortheffort 4 года назад

You mean a 2x4 and file?

@ironmantooltime 4 года назад

@@wortheffort do you not need the whole jig, can you get as good a result freehand? Appreciate if you could show a grinder jig for chisels. The veritas one is nice but costs more than my grinder 🤣

@andrewbrimmer1797 Год назад

I can't get comfortable with a straight handle

@Lee-qp6gf 4 года назад

Todays saws are cut with a laser and they are for shit. they cut backwards about the same as forward. I can tell by the sound. I have a similar saw I bought in 1967 and never sharpened it and still use it.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

These were stamped. Likely use same machine for all expecting customers to sharpen. Kinda like it was 60 years ago. No tools actually came sharp back then.

@autumn5592 10 месяцев назад

So you bought a saw over 50 years ago, have never sharpened it, and it still cuts? I think this is more a case of complacency with poor tooling than a tool that still works well.

@Lee-qp6gf 10 месяцев назад

LOL, I sharpened many saws when I was a carpenter.. If you have the right hook on teeth they will cut and have a much different sound on the forward stroke. Today's saws the teeth are almost straight up with little or no hook.

@brianeversole3849 2 года назад

Audio is painful

@kimmetzger4652 4 года назад

And all it takes is $400 worth of sharpening tools.

@wortheffort 4 года назад

That’s an excuse not to try. A 2x4 pinch vise and a file is all you need. That ain’t $400 and what you saw in video wasn’t even close to $400.

@kimmetzger4652 4 года назад

@@wortheffort I love your work. Enjoyed your video. But the tools you used sell for close to $400 at Lee Valley. I'll see what I can find for a DYI vise.

@kimmetzger4652 4 года назад

DYI vise ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q6hoEYIa4Wk.html

@wortheffort 4 года назад

That vise is $200-250 and I told you a pinch vise made of 2x4's ($4) could be used. Files are a buck or so a piece....

@wortheffort 4 года назад

that's a pinch vise.....