A Brain Divided | Iain McGilchrist | EP 168 

[2:00] Jordan asks Iain to outline his concept of attention that he outlines in his forthcoming book The Matter of Things [14:30] Creating the world through attention. Examining studies done to understand what we would miss without the right hemisphere of our brain. Contrasting the known differences of the two brain hemispheres [24:00] Discussion of the function of categories and the distinction we make that pull things out of those categories [33:30] What holes, in reality, are your values or belief structures filling in enabling you to function in the world. looking at the importance of looking at things as a whole instead of a part of the whole. [36:30] Iain talks about paradoxes in the lens of his new book and examines them. Iain denotes the importance of understanding the significance of the left or right hemisphere when looking at ideas, structures, or projects that have contributed to society. [43:08] Jordan creates an analogy of tiers of resolution when we are living our lives and performing tasks. McGilchrist outlines his analogy of task attention the two hemispheres as a stage with a spotlight, the highlighted portion is the action of the left hemisphere while the whole stage is the collective consciousness of the right hemisphere. [54:50] Important schools of thought that improve culture, Science, Reason, Intuition, and Imagination. Unpacking the idea of ontological primaries related to consciousness [1:05:35] Iain recounts the public reaction to The Master and His Emissary [1:07:30] Iain and Jordan debate about the nature of implicit values and the idea of God, or what we use the word God to describe [1:15:00] The failing of the left hemisphere vision of the world according to McGilchrist [1:20:00] debating the value of industrial rationalists that ignore the co-creation relationship of the divine [1:23:30] Iain's drive to write his books, the disconnect he sees with the rational, scientific construction of society leading to more unhappy people as society "improves" Iain's three things all humans need to be happy are to feel socially connected, being in the presence of nature, and being part of a religious community. [1:29:30] Discussing the need for science to be embedded in a larger value structure and not simply rational and removed from right brain thinking [1:34:30] revisiting the co-creation idea of the cosmos, Iain relates his closing argument that science needs to bring back imagination and intuition as important aspects of exploration beyond the strictly rational.

Three Years ago I was hooked on Klonopin. My life was horrible. Fat, slow, depressed, and living with parents at 27. I listened to your talk on Joe Rogan everyday for weeks then your other work. I tapered myself off 6mg Klonopin a day and it took six months. Got in shape and saved enough money to move out and began to voluntarily except responsibility. I have been independent since and have now moved my Mother out of her old trailer home to a new apartment. I can't believe in just three years, how I was the loser in my family to now be the leader. Its unbelievable. You are in an elite club of people who know the pure utter hell that Klonopin withdraw is. Nobody can possibly understand unless they go through it. And there is no help unless you help yourself. Quitting Klonopin gave me a superpower. Now I am not afraid of anything. Thank you Doctor Peterson.

Please split the screen so we can see Jordan’s or guests real time reactions to the conversation.

"The quality of the world depends on the quality of attention you pay to it" 💯 - Iain

I can’t believe this guy was on deaths door and somehow managed to pull himself together and produce content like THIS. Incredible

My favourite super niche community might be people who are in love with these two having a conversation

I'm having a moment of awe that I'm privledged enough to live in a time where I can listen to this conversation between these two brilliant minds 🤯.

Jordan - Forgive me, but please don't interrupt your guests so often. No offense, but there's no shortage of Jordan Peterson explaining this and that. And your contributions are enormously valuable. But when you present a guest, leave him or her room to complete their response. Besides listening attentively, watch his eyes, body language and gestures for clues that reveal where he is in his explanation. McGilchrist's train of thoughts is repeatedly interrupted by you such that it appears he must then interrupt you to finish his thoughts. It's frustrating for us as viewers, and appears you're more interested in impressing us with your knowledge than presenting a forum for your guest. Perhaps you should put your extrapolations in a summary at the end of each interview.

I'm listening to this conversation again and again trying to grasp all of the great ideas in it. Thank you, dr. Peterson and dr. McGilchrist for this great podcast.

I feel like these two gentlemen need more sessions together.

I studied engineering before I studied medicine and the difference in the spirit of inquiry was enormous- as an engineering undergrad everything was being discovered and was possible- as a medical student at a more prestigious school everything was known and meaningful inquiry was dead- that endarkenment of society- particularly in higher learning is so very real

What a great conversation! I’m listening to this on a Saturday while cleaning my house. 🏡 What a time to be alive! Thank you 🙏

Iain's occasional grunts of affirmation as Jordan speaks add such a fantastic level of friendliness to their conversation

I’m basically uneducated and didn’t have any interest when at school. At 27 I’m thankful that I’m able to listen to this conversation and learn

Dr Peterson, Recently, I listened to your podcast with you and Tom. Towards the end, you became emotional and said you felt unworthy and ashamed. Jordan, you don't have to be perfect. The world needs you with all your imperfections. You have drastically changed my outlook on life. I owe you a great amount of debt. Thank you very much for your consistent uploads. I wish you and your family the best❤

How can I clean up my room when there is content like this to immerse myself in?...Ah ha! Clean up my room AT THE SAME TIME!

8:20 two hemispheres is to give depth. One eye is all that’s needed to see but we have two for depth perception. One is still dominant but the two working together give exponentially improved interaction with the world around us.

Jordan is filling a gap on the internet for people craving high level conversations.

McGilcrhist might be the only person that really gives Peterson a run for his money. I love it when they talk. I could watch this all day. Taking thorough notes.

This is an incredibly, incredibly powerful and meaningful conversation. My mind is blown!

It is a very rare thing to watch a dialog or talk that can open you up to so many insights in such a short time. This was incredible. Please bring him back again soon.

Good to see Iain getting more love.

Dr. Peterson’s ability to take unbelievably complex topics and bring them to the level of everyday people is underrated. Thank you JP

Thanks to you both for a most useful and beautiful conversation. "It is not your duty to finish the work, but neither are you at liberty to neglect it..." Pirkei Avot 2։16

Dear Mr Peterson, I just want to say thanks. Your 4th series is free of charge to watch, and is still helping us to consider the fundamental things. I appreciate all your hard work.

The Master and His Emissary is the best non-fiction book I've ever read. Truly world changing.

Anybody else level up and gain wisdom points from listening to this amazing podcast?

It took me four years to paint like Raphael, but a lifetime to paint like a child Pablo Picasso

McGilchrist is the man history needs

Man Jordan's going rapid fire with these interviews now... Great to see you're starting to feel better Jordan! God bless

"The qualities of the world that come to your attention are determined by the qualities of the attention that you bring to it." Oh this gon be good.

Great conversation, Prof. Peterson! Life is very complicated and it's absolutely amazing how our mind and brain guide us through the mess.

What a treat it is to witness these two in conversation. Simply amazing!

From the bottom of my heart - thank you Dr. Peterson. You may never fully know just how helpful and healing your work has been to all of us. The world is and will be, a much better and brighter place because of the great effort you’ve put into Being. God bless you and your family 🙏🏼

"Imagination is more important than knowledge".....Einstein. "I wish I could paint like a child" .....Picasso in old age.

Intelligent conversations. What we’ve been so deprived of.

Jordan did a wonderful job of letting Ian speak. And of course asking excellent questions. This was an epic meeting of the minds. Love to both you!

I read The Master and his Emissary a few months ago and it completely blew me away. It addressed and explained pretty much everything I've ever felt was wrong with the modern world.

Jordan is pumping out absolute bangers as of late. Intellectual conversations are intoxicating.

Absolutely love this conversation! Explains so much about our world today.

This is some deep level conversation right there. I first listened to it while doing some chores as I usually do with many podcasts, but there was a background noise that prevented me to hear some of the words (which normally would be ok to understand almost any other type of conversation) and now I am listening to it again to fully grasp everything said in it. I am certain that it is worth it.

Jordan Peterson: Yeah I don't know about going on another book tour. Jordan Peterson: So I'm just going to do a few interviews on my podcast. Us: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:17:10 "Thinking is more interesting than knowing but not than observing." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe ( 1749 - 1832 )

I have two things I'd like to mention; One is that I had a brain injury years ago that was missed. It was before they really knew about the specific issues with multiple concussions back to back or in recent succession. So it took 8 years before it was found, via a Neurologist, that I had 70% reduction in short term memory (sorry that's the only way I can describe it). I had insomnia for years after the injuries (which occured within 6 weeks of eachother) and could not run more than 3 strides before literally running into the ground on my face. I was able to teach myself to run again by mentally concentrating on lifting my knees higher. I ran weirdly for about a year before it started to feel natural again. I was highly motivated to get back to normal because my work was very high stress and I needed to be able to do my job without putting myself or others at risk of injury or death. So it was very motivating. I had to drive in my work vehicle and I found I would get behind the wheel and start to literally pass out. My family doctor suggested it was the insomnia and gave my some relaxation exercises to do, which were already known to me and I had tried them already. I was under so much pressure at work from my superiors to figure this out, I asked my doctor if the reason could be due to the recent concussions. She asked me when they had occurred and I stated that it had been 4- 6 weeks now and she was quite reassuring that there was no way they were related. I simply shrugged my shoulders and walked out of the office. I continued to struggle at work because I found I could not complete my reports. I was confused as to why suddenly I could not remember how to , it seemed. But due to the pressures of work, I pressed on. I was constantly in trouble at work for my reports not being completed on time and when they were reviewed, my supervisors were baffled because the reports were basically done, with only one more task to do on them! The Neurologist that tested me suggested that the reason why I was able to recover as well as I did without professional help, was due to how motivated I was to push through and push myself. It wasn't until about 6-7 years after the injuries that I started having such trouble remembering names of people, places, things and procedures. I was even having trouble with new faces of people and because I was now working in a small town, it was getting more and more difficult to hide my deficits. Then I started having mini seizures. Because I lived alone, it became worrisome. Then I started forgetting the names of people in my office. So I went for more testing with a different Neurologist. He was simply not helpful and never did say what he thought was wrong. I explain all of this to give some context to the right and left hemisphere connection. My first injury was to the top right hemisphere and the second was to my temple location on my right hemisphere but there also would have been some concussion to the lower to mid left. On the MRI, I could clearly see the places where the brain had hit up against my inner skull. It was subtle by then of course, but the Neurologists had nothing to compare the image to, so they could not say what was an old injury or just natural formation. I am an artist now...I was an artist when I was younger too, but I struggled with a lack of imagination so went in a different direction. Now, I have a plethora of imagination! I am a fountain of imagination if I turn the tap on. It comes effortlessly and actually at such a rate it definitely can be overwhelming. Is this due to my injuries I wonder? Artists are here to help others see all that is before them. I share this and am open to discussion within limits of course because I hope that it can help someone one day. I have become much more open about my life and my "condition" after I was diagnosed? We can learn much from each other's experiences. We can learn from each other, but of course it is not easy to trust. But at face value, there must be some value here. ; ) Oh...and the second thing; Jesus is real ; ) and I'm not kidding about this and I'm dead serious and no, I did not imagine Him up. I know that this brings everything I shared before into serious question for some. i get it. But if you knew what I knew, you would do the same. Keep on searching until you find Him.

This conversation had me in tears. It's truly inspiring to hear views that resonate with my own experience and they are so few and far between these days...

Lots of love from mozambique, I went all the way importing your book 12 rules for order because I couldn't find it in my country, Swaziland and South Africa, and it was worth every effort, I think I'm going to import the new book too

Love you, Dr. Peterson! Thank you for holding on for so long and for always aiming up.

For sure I need to rewatch this again. It's really good. I'm very grateful to have the chance to listen to this kind of podcasts. We all are. The gap is being filled with great content. Finally, my brain seems to get some superfoods. :D

"The right hemisphere sees that nothing is ever ultimately unconnected from everything else" 22:12

I was looking forward to seeing you speak with Iain McGilchrist again. So glad you managed to have him on!

The left vs right brain bit was interesting and instructive. The comments on poverty, and the current age of endarkenment were dead on. I think while western society has succeeded in generating wealth it has failed in generating value and it has discarded the most meaningful parts of experience in its search for wealth- and I think on a deep level everybody feels it- and I think your publications do a great job helping people orient themselves and will prove invaluable and far reaching to the rising generations. Thanks again!

I could listen to these two all day long. What a wonderful thing it is to see these conversations/thinkersations. Absolutely fascinating!

I have purchased your book and several more for family members.. you are such a light in all this darkness. Bless your sweet soul.

It's not often that you see Jordan listening for this length of time. I suspect that Iain is bringing him new pieces of the puzzle that Jordan is constantly building. That said, I think I also hear undertones of Iain's view of Jordan being too locked down into certainty...there is an interesting positive tension in this dialogue.

My God, JP is reaching peak performance! Almost 2 hour long podcasts daily. Rabi, you are the light upon this world!

Wow, thank you both for this astonishing podcast. I am amazed by these recent conversations, especially because I personally am not familiar with the work of some the participants. So good to know that our world still has plenty of great thinkers out there giving us the chance to be a part of their intellectual journey. Thanks again for this deeply valuable content. Greetings from Germany!

Incredibly interesting and insightful conversation!. Another one with Iain McGilchrist would be appreciated!

These "daily" podcasts are making my mornings so much more fulfilling! Thank you Jordan!

I've been obsessed with the differences in the brain hemispheres lately!! Thank you for this Jordan. It's my birthday today and this is a fantastic present. Appreciate both you gentlemen greatly. Cheers

Jordan, I would like to tell you the same as thousands of people before me. Thank you! You really have a very positive effect on people, including me. I have been watching your videos, your lectures for several years, but I am too far away to even dream of seeing you live. But today, using a translator, at least I will write, suddenly you will see, although I hardly believe. Thank you for such a person as you.

Gem of a conversation. The way they clarify the concepts using their own words makes McGilchrist’s ideas much easier to understand, particularly the left , right hemisphere stuff

I'm not normally a violent person, but that like button really deserved it.

this man is pumping out literaly fire content at unprecedented rates

One of the most interesting conversation I have heard you have Jordan; please have a follow up with Iain. There is a convergence of ideas yet untaped that will be most interesting to get to the bottom of. Thank you both for a very interesting conversation. I have already listened twice and will do so again.

Great work, love it! All the views on the world that are being discussed on this channel, all the knowledge and high level conversation, this is so great!

Never clicked faster. This will be great.

This is an incredible conversation of two Titans of thought. I absolutely love Iain McGilchrist's work and his searching knowledge. Thank you Jordan for letting Iain talk fully about his erudite discoveries. Please do this again and again and again. Thank you

Thank you. I've been watching your videos and listening to you for several years. They helped a lot, thanks for that! More than two years ago I gave up all bad habits, but I still have to fight for my life every day. From this moral difficulties. It seems that he began to live correctly, but failures are still pursuing.

I love these lectures so much. They open up the brain( both sides) and let the light shine in 👍 Thank you for these moments in time!

Thanks for feeding us with such great content ! From Korea 🇰🇷

“You can do anything-but not everything.” - David Allen

So much value to be taken from this convo - thank you! Would have loved to hear more discussion of the Corpus Callosum

Brilliant conversation, one of the best yet, most of this wisdom will go over our heads. Thank you Jordan, let's hope this gets a great follow up, there's still so much more

I am a 29 year old high school drop out who couldn’t stay out of trouble in school. This video reminds me just how lucky I am to be living in a time when this type of education can be found for free online. These types of conversations would have been held for the highest in education despite the fact that most people can follow them to some degree.

Loved this! A great combo in Dr. M & Dr. P. Thanks for all you both do!

This was a brilliant talk from start to end. Truly lovely.

"Since life is short and the word is wide, the sooner you start exploring it the better. Soon enough the time will come when you are too tired to move further than the terrace of the best hotel. Go now" Simon Raven. This and this discourse reminded me of it.

When he says “enjoy the podcast” I feel like that’s an order. Haha

I can not thank you enough for this conversation. Thanks to both of you.

I enjoyed so much the first conversation between these two insightful and thoughtful men, and this, the second, and I look forward to more. Thank you both.

Simone Weil “ giving another your attention is the greatest gift one can give another human”

These conversations are always so fascinating, really glad to see Dr. Peterson healthy and admire the amount of work he's put into these recent podcasts all things considered. God bless you and your family

Thank you for not giving up!! You are a blessing to the world!

Really enjoyed this conversation. One of those I’d like to listen to again!

So excited to see you and Iain having another conversation. Brilliant minds.

This is such a massively complex subject and to listen to these men labour to articulate was so wonderful and insightful...I could listen for another 3 hrs Im sure. Thank you both gentlemen!

An absolutely fascinating conversation. Mr (Dr?) McGilchrist is an exceptionally engaging guest, and he clearly understands his area of expertise (and many other topics besides) deeply. Thank you for sharing all this wisdom, both of you.

Brilliant conversation. Fantastic to be introduced to Iain and his ideas. Can't wait to read the book.

It's such a treat to be able to have Jordan back regularly in this format. So much to learn, thank you family Peterson for beaming your thinking out into the world.

I've been drawn to The Master and His Emissary since I heard it mentioned on the radio years ago. I still haven't gotten to it, I'm so grateful that Dr. Peterson has given him this platform. Due to the popularity and audience of Peterson, many people now have the gift of learning about Ian McGilchrist's work. I love how Jordan Peterson draws him out to talk about the why's to his work and books. I find myself to be a big fan of McGilchrist's ideas and thinking after watching this. It's been said Truth has a beauty that helps you to know it when you see it, and this is what I find in McGilchrist's conversation. And central to this is the ancient idea that we cannot know everything and that is part of the wisdom and the knowing. Thank you gentlemen.

Jordan, thanks for another great podcast! I must think about what I think I heard on many different levels for a bit. Conversations like this one allow me the opportunity to choose a path that is of interest and just see where it goes. thanks again

What a lovely elevated discussion, thank you both so much. A breath of fresh air in my left brain as my right takes the wheel for a while...! :) Iain's work is superb.

I can confirm Dr McGilchrist's hypothesis: I live to eat and to not be eaten.

I’ve been waiting for this since their last talk! Should be EPIC!!!

Really enjoying this, life being examined in a complicating way that ultimately simplified it at the same time.

Wonderful conversation. What a productive exercise to my brain it was to listen to this conversation.

I absolutely love how Iain stands up to Jordan’s attempts to interrupt him.

I shouted "Yes!!" when I saw this uploaded. I have been waiting years for another conversation with Iain.

Fascinating podcast, one of the best, better than lectures. We want more of Ian McGilchrist!!!

This conversation is GOLD. For me, from 1:29:30 to the end was (is/and will be again) particularly worth listening to.