The Soul calmly, near emotionlessly, calling Kris "beloved" hits hard. Maybe it's because, as much as I want to see this game through to the end, I really do wish I didn't have to put Kris through so much to do so, or I could at least let them know I don't mean any harm.
I mean sure, this soul speaks really misteriously, but in reality the soul IS the player, so the conversation would be more like: "* Why are you controlling me!?" "DUDE I DON'T KNOW I DIDN'T EVEN MEAN TO ENTER YOUR BODY. I KNOW _LESS_ THAN YOU" "* Is there any way to get you out?" "Well idk maybe we could try to find that vessel. If we work together we can both get out of this mess." "* Alright then" "But I still will make you hug Ralsei in the mean time" " * BRO WHY ARE YOU LIKE THIS
I mean, if that's how you as the player would talk, that's how the conversation might happen. The point of the comic utilizing the quote isn't to give an accurate piece of in-game dialog. It's an exploration of Kris' clear discomfort and dislike for being controlled and the god-like shape the player takes up when they're possessed. The point is that there is no conversation. Kris and the player don't talk. The player talks through Kris, but there is no cooperation at this point. It's a onesided 'I am taking your body and making you do the things I desire to see, whether you wish to suffer through it or not.'
@@calmv3587 DUDE ABSOLUTELY! I would love if you can post a link to the comic when you make it! I have been DYING to see the concept of "the player isn't actually the villain" explored. _AND NO ONE SEEMS TO HAVE DONE ANYTHING WITH IT YET IT DRIVES ME NUTS_
I think the line from the poem that works best for this metaphor, and that I think personally hits hardest, is one that the artist simply put at the end of the post rather than put it in the comic. "I am aware that this request is fundamentally selfish. I can offer no justification for it, no argument in its favor. It is simply the outcome I desire to see the most.”
In case anyone is bewildered or bamboozled by the waxing poetic, practically prosaic nature of this comics language, here’s my take, strap in: Kris is in the bathroom, looking at themselves in the mirror. They are thinking about everything that’s happened, the Spamton situation especially is taking up a portion of their headspace. As they think about why any of this, the strings, the Dark Worlds, etc is happening to them, the essence of their problems, their puppetmaster, speaks to them for the first time, and tells them the truth, that nothing that has happened or will happen to them will ever be justified, nor will it have any purpose or sense, It will just be the way things happen, and then asks them to endure it anyway. Though this may seem callous at first, the SOUL, too, doesn’t like what they’re putting Kris through, they are reaching out to Kris in an attempt to help them deal with the situation. This catches Kris off guard, they stop and stare. The SOUL tells Kris that they both know that Kris knows that the SOUL speaks in only action, no words, no connection, SOUL then speaks of it’s thousand faces, it could be Pacifist, Neutral, Murderous, A Speedrunner, A Newbie, A Veteran, or anything/anyone else, all the SOUL. Kris cannot control their body, they can only speak the words of their master, but they CAN change bits of it, and put in what they’re really trying to say, much like Spamton, hence the brackets. Kris replies with: “A thousand faces, *[[none]]* of them mine” Kris is saying that there is almost no “Kris” on the outside, only the faces of SOUL, Kris can only control the bare minimum, like facial expressions and tone of voice, and even then, only in moments of extreme emotion. SOUL asks Kris another time, to endure it, calling them “beloved”. SOUL, much like any player, loves the world they are playing through, and they love the characters. They’ve fallen in love, and now they want to help Kris through a situation neither party had any say in. SOUL tells kris that if they stopped playing, if they looked away, they know what would happen. They will not look away, no matter what Kris does, says, or anything else, SOUL is bound by chains of passion and love to keep playing, and keep watching, even watching the most awful moments Kris’ life had to offer. SOUL says that they are doing it, for Kris, not for themself, they love Kris’ world and Kris themself too much to look away, to even blink. Time flies straight like an arrow, it does not. Figures momentarily appear in the hot fog of the sink, echoes of a time and place far away, yet right here, time flies backwards, forwards, and side to side, time is at the whim of SOUL, they can be anywhere and everywhere, they just need a host. Kris says: *[[N]][[arrow]] [[is]] [[the]] [[strai]][[T]][[.]]* A strait is a narrow passage of water connecting two large bodies of water, The meaning here is that enduring this, all of this, is going to be nigh impossible, the strait is too narrow, no boat can pass through, Narrow Is The Strait. SOUL once again tells Kris that this cannot be undone, what’s happening now is something that has to be gotten used too. SOUL tells Kris that it gave him, a practically mute by choice kid, language and friendships Kris visibly enjoys, Kris has eaten the fruits of SOULs existence, there is nothing Kris can do to make SOUL leave, they love Kris too much. Kris is visibly distressed as it all sets in, they begin to cry profusely, and they ask “I am asking *[[you]]* *[[h]][[ow]]* to endure it.” SOUL answers, they say that Kris can do it on the strength of SOUL asking them to; Kris hears this, and knows what to do. Kris kneels, defeated, “I am asking *[[not]]* to endure it.” Kris then rips SOUL out of them, all SOUL says in response is “scio, sweetheart.” Scio is Latin for something along the lines of “fact” or “knowledge” we can infer that SOUL is telling Kris that what they’ve told them is the truth, whatever Kris tries to do to get rid of SOUL won’t work, while simultaneously reassuring Kris that SOUL still does and always will, love them. Overall, absolutely fantastic comic, the cryptic nature of SOUL really makes it feel much more like old religious literature, which is what Toby is likely going for with Deltarune, given all the Angel and church related stuff, as well as the seeming importance of the priest Alvin. Also, TLDR: the SOUL (aka the player) is speaking to kris in an attempt to help them cope with their situation, this does not work, and Kris Rips the SOUL out in retaliation, which, of course, does not phase the SOUL, who assumes that Kris’ll come around eventually. Also To those who say this comic sounds like a bible verse, there are many points where it does, such as the “thousand faces” and “on the strength of me having asked it of you”, to name a few, but kris saying narrow is the strait is probably triggering your memory for this bible verse in the King James Bible: Enter Ye in at the Strait gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there will be who go in thereat: *Because strait is the gate, and narrow Is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there will be that find it.* Matthew 7:13/14.
one more thing I wanna add is that the SOUL _literally_ gave Kris language because they were only able to construct sentences from the words that the SOUL already said. that whole passage about time flying straight like an arrow? seems kinda unrelated, but that’s what Kris constructs their response from! overall, great comic, great dub and great analysis. love me some benevolent eldritch deities
I just realized something. In chapter one, Jevil locked himself away to find freedom. Kris in the ending of Ch 1, locks SOUL away in a birdcage, which allows them to move freely without SOUL’s control. In Chapter 2, Spamton is shown to be locked inside his own body, and can sometimes speak out freely from his insanity in brackets, such as when he says [can anyone hear me? help.], or when he says [No, I’m sorry! I’m sorry!], and lastly, when he’s completely free of his strings and talks about how he truly couldn’t be anything more than a simple puppet. In chapter 2, Kris starts ‘talking’ freely without our input by emphasizing whatever options we pick in a way that shows how he actually feels, and at the end of the Spamton Neo fight, when Kris more than likely found Spamton’s struggle similar to his, just to see Spamton be unable to break free, reinforcing the idea that Kris can’t break free of SOUL, the second we choose no when Susie asks if we’re alright, Kris starts yelling. Even worse is in the Snowgrave route, where Kris falls completely silent, and SOUL, aka the player, is the one to keep forcing Noelle’s hand. Guys. Kris is learning how to break free by fighting the secret bosses.
Soul: I think Spamton was a warning. But not for you. For Me. Kris: Spamton was a [me] warning. Soul: You disagree. But I screamed "No" to Susie's question too. Kris: ... Soul: I can't talk to my puppeteer. My puppeteer lets me think I'm free. That I'm a Big Shot. But the truth is: I'm limited. Three paths. Cannot go back unless destroyed and sent back to the morning you wake up and find the first fountain, but still only three. One is what Ralsei wants, the other what Susie wants, and a third. But no matter what I do in these three paths the end result is the same. My actions mean nothing. Kris: [Your] actions mean nothing. [You not] a Big Shot. Soul: Correct. I've not harmed anyone, I've built a Snow Grave, and I've picked and choose between both...but nothing changes. I have no *Determination* Kris: [Determination?] Soul: So...do what you want when you can. I can only ask you endure it...until the story finally decides to be rid of us. Kris: I am asking [not] to endure it. Soul: *watches Kris pull them out* I know...
all of this is exactly how i think all the characters see us as.....remember in the lore we are considered to be an angel so we would sound like we are talking like this. even if we are just speaking normal sentences........ remember, we love you kris just as much as we did frisk and chara........ never forget that. YOU may hate US but we do NOT and could NOT hate you...........
my take is that the SOUL/Player is basically asking Kris to continue to endure the fact that they are a character in a dramatic story, who’s designed to go through a series of ups and downs and who suffers merely for someone’s entertainment. Kris is stuck with a body they can really only passively observe, but if the SOUL “looks away” (i. e. stops playing), the world will be shrouded in darkness (according to the Game Over screen in chapter 1), or it at least won’t really exist, and the Player simply loves the world too much to let that happen. so the SOUL is determined to see the story through to the end, because they want Kris and the others to genuinely succeed on their quest, even if it means controlling Kris like a puppet. in fact, Kris is already enjoying the new friends that the Player made for them, and the adventures the SOUL has them go through, which only proves their point. Kris is supposed to put up with all this “on the strength of [the Player] having asked of [Kris]” because the SOUL genuinely believes it can guide Kris to a happy ending, so in the meantime they’re going to have to deal with the pain that they’ll feel on the road.
Well done, great performance!! I love the animation/faded in panels and the voice editing, it made the comic flow really well as video. "I am aware that this request is fundamentally selfish. I can offer no justification for it, no argument in its favor. It is simply the outcome I desire to see the most." This is maybe my favorite addition to the post, since it speaks so well to the heart/soul/player being the one who wants to see Kris act in the way they desire. Even though the game has shown how Kris clearly doesn't want this at all, we as players still proceed to control them. Not even out of malevolence, often even out of love for the character and the world they inhabit! But if the game will continue to explore that discrepancy, we might soon get a deeper insight into how this has affected Kris and this comic is such a cool exploration of how that might look like!
In some regard, I think some of this isn't true. He does like some of the things we did for him. He enjoys Suzie, and he might not have had that connection without us.
@@GFCOLCQuote Kris is exclusively referred to as "they/them". Considering how Kris literally rips out the heart controlling them, I genuinely doubt they particularly care about the "good" or the "bad" things the player makes them do- they hate being controlled like a puppet regardless.
If you don't know, the text is a poem between a god and a subject-- the subject's language is fractured because they can only say words the god has spoken. The "time flies straight like an arrow" bit was said to give the subject more words with which to speak.
We didn't choose this either, we were forced into Kris by a third entity. We were supposed to be handed an empty vessel by Gaster or whoever to use to interact with the world but instead someone else came in and said "HAHA, *NOPE,* YOU CAN'T HAVE VESSELS IN DETROIT." and here we are.
Oh right, that's true. Voice: Nice vessel you got there, too bad I'm trashing it because JOKES ON YOU; YOUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER LOL- (Yeets you into Kris)
But we’re the ones who choose to continue playing and controlling Kris. Even if we didn’t want to control them in the first place we’re still choosing to control despite them seeming very unhappy about it. So it is still partly our fault as we could just stop playing the game.
@@UnaCorn-cq4wy True, however it is justified. From our perspective. As *PLAYERS* .For most people that play DR and UT we love the characters. We like them and their stories. For most this includes Kris. We take away their choices, true. But Kris too never seemed like the most healthy of people, socially or mentally. Their indifference made it easy for us so to speak, to improve the lives of others. Especially Susie. We take away their choices, guiding them. But that is not something moral for us who value freedom or individuality. However it should also be noted that it is highly likely that Kris is either the Roaring Knight, or is at least responsible for messing things up for both the Light and Dark Worlds. And there is still a lot to be gauged about Kris in regards to the person that are. Regardless of what we think. It's inevitable that Kris will be controlled. After all it's implied that this Possession occurred before we gained control. As I see it the only sensible and moral thing to do is to control Kris until the end. When the game either ends, we confront the Malicious entity (most likely Gaster) that did this or both.
Soul, in headcanon: "You will not see what actions are to unfold, because they will not be of your doing." Soul, in canon: "hug ralsei hug ralsei yeEEESSSS now do snowgrave kil kil kil haha wait no actually go back spare haha yes funi queen SPAMTON SPAMTON AHHHHH"
If it turns out the we're not controlling Kris, we're actually controlling the soul who turns out to also be some god-like character in the story, I really hope they aren't gonna be like this. That would seriously suck 'cause I can't understand a word they're saying.
@@draggerhatter What I meant was we as the players aren't an actual character in the story, the soul that we're controlling is its own character and we're just following along with its story. (I'm like ninety percent sure that still doesn't make sense but eh.)
@@twilight_potato makes a little more sense but the theory doesnt really line up too well with the fact that our vessel is still stored in your save file if you play chapter 2 with a chapter one file
Seriously I think there is a third person with Kris and us/the player, or at least something because if it wasn't the case, Kriss already spoke to us and asked to let him free.
"Your choices don't matter." Why not? Is it because the one making the choices believes that they do not matter? Does that justify your actions? Will that fill the crater that exists in your soul? Does that mean you are free from your consequences? We all pay our dues, whether we acknowledge it or not. Whether we believe we matter or not. And I don't mean the game here.
I'll say, how very just of you. Looking back at this scenario, I think that while this hypothetical player might or might not believe in something like the Norse cycle, perhaps they think Ralsei's words were correct, in that Kris choices, in the end will be the deciding factor. To quote the words of a favorite author of mine, "The truth is, as a mans real power grows and his knowledge widens, ever the way he can follow grows narrower: until at last he can choose nothing but does only and wholly what he must do." They are saying "I am with you in the dark"... Ultimately, all we know is that the steps on this journey is what the game is focusing on, a contrast shown. In a sense, we are working in a reverse position from Undertale. We have already learnt that we are not above consequence...
This poem makes beautiful sense in a Christian perspective if anyone understands it as I do. I have you language You ate the fruit. I asked you to endure it. This is the choice I made on your behalf. Strength by me asking you to endure it. Almost an alternate universe where God chose happiness over free will and love.
To say He could have acted to have happiness over free will. Well, what alternatives were there? Erasure? Breaking the vow that they would be fruitful, and leave them as a singular creation? What actions would still be keeping true to His character, still be fair? (In heavens eyes, as well.) Its something of a tricky question, there are parallels to this one could make, but the situation is different. Because the relationship is different.
