A Critical Analysis of the Alt Floors: Do They Belong In Isaac? (Part 1/2) 

I can't believe you didn't mention Henry, the best enemy in Dross

About the idea opening the door with sharp items, its actually really cool. After every character has the mother unlock, an achievement "the flesh door became fragile" or something like that would be nice

Note that the drowned gapers appear corporeal, without a shadow, in the mirror world. it's such a neat detail

I feel like the term Ashpit isn't supposed to refer to smoke, but rather to cremated ashes; hence why most of the unique enemies to that floor are Bony variants and ghosts. I wish they did more with the concept similar to Dross; but I feel like Gehenna, Dross and the main 4 alt floors were given more attention and love during the rushed process of Repentance. I'm not saying rushed to diss the game, but rushed because there are unfinished elements (including unadded enemies from Antibirth and some """finished"""" but unadded bosses like Raglich and the Posessor) and it came out not the most polished (but nowhere as unpolished as Afterbirth+).

I really, *really* like this video. It's well made, smart and clear. A blast to watch. I really hope you're gonna do the second part. GG !

Ashpit just feels like Mines again, and the changes it does make aren't interesting. It's like "what if the abandoned mines were...ABANDONED?!"

Didn't really notice anyone mentioning this, but I'm almost 100% sure that the willows (looks like they're named willos in the console) are a play on will-o'-wisps - beings that led travelers astray into swamps and similar. With how they hover around you and harass you, I think it's fitting. Firefly woulda been an A tier pun, though

Hope you guys enjoyed! Couple points I just want to hammer down here: I say Gehenna different each time on purpose because nobody can decide on a proper pronunciation lmao You aren't "bad" at the game if you can't deal with the alt floors. There definitely is some BS, but all of Isaac has it's BS. Just a little bit of exposure and practice really does go a long way! Again, I don't mind how item rooms are now, but I think we can all agree that Dross/Ashpit/Gehenna are all the more difficult version, it would be nice to have a slight edge when you end up on those floors Dusts are fine when they're on their own in a room, it's when they're accompanied by OTHER enemies that it's an issue. Because you're focused on the visible enemies, you dont think that the corners could have invisible hit boxes in them, that's where my frustration comes from Part two will be out next week, I didn't plan to split this video up, but my mental state has not been at an all time high and I felt bad for delaying this video, so it's sort of a best of both worlds! I know I’m hard to understand at points, it’s called a speech impediment and not much i can do ab it

As a console player, this really helps for when repentance comes out. Thanks bd1p

Walls of Denial and Morning Star, the songs that play in Mausoleum and Gehenna, are actually BANGERS. Also, mausoleum is the coolest floor aesthetically in the game for me. Gehenna is also cool, but i wish the backdrop had less greys and more true blacks and also brighter reds.

Honestly, I agree with anything although I am actually a bit of a fan of the ashpit. It is true that sometimes it is way too easy and sometimes it is way too hard, pretty unbalanced on that standpoint, but everything else about it is pretty cool to me. I love the soundtrack, i love the literal idea of an ashpit where the walls look like they've been covered in layers and layers of ash and could crumble at any second, and I love the wind effect it has where you can see the actual ash, it's the most detailed in the entirety of Isaac when it comes to "ambient" detail like that. It is true, it could have been more and to some players Mines really is more fun, but to me Ashpit is just a hecka lot more metal. I love it

This video is sick. I love the way you pick apart the details of each floor and how the mechanics of each enemy contribute to fun and difficulty of the game. I really wanna see part 2 of this.

I would say the mother path would be fine if you get More rewards similar to the likes of downpour II/Dross II. Both mines, ashpit, mausoleum, gehena should have something similar as a reward for going there. Not necessary an extra boss item like the alt floor I but something cool too. I did think in one thing they could add: during the mom chase in mines II/ashpit II, Instead of a hanged man card there could be a chance to be the transcendence item. In that way you can play your odds and get knife piece 2 to maybe get flight. Of course the path to transcendence could be a lot trickier that just trhowing 1 bomb on the right angle, enough to be a worthy reward.

I can tell a lot of work went into this. Can't wait for part 2!

bd1p has more high school nicknames than enemies in ashpit rooms

"Out of all the new floors, Mines and Downpour have my favourite music" - Person not playing new Mines music while showcasing new Mines

I really love these sort of videos, I can really notice that you put a TON of effort into these videos

Personally i feel like after 5 mother kills you should get the knife for free in the mirror and minecart room or have the flesh door open In a more "balanced" way they could make you a 3 pedestal choice when killing the foot between the polaraid, negative and knife, after all you don't need those 2 if you go Alt path

IMO the only thing to hard is delirium. Also you missed Henry

Great vid! Would love to see a part 2

can tell you put a lot of effort into this and it really shows, keep up the good work!

S tier video! Super excited for the next part

Since you were talking about the new player experience, it should be mentioned that the mirror world in downpour is disproportionately difficult and will abruptly end a lot of new player runs because you likely won't have holy mantle for lost unlocked on a newer save file.

the alt floors leading up to mother is like a golden paved path towards a bucket of actual diarrhoea

This video was very insightful. I always wanted to hear what people think of the Alt Floors. Can't wait for part 2~

Awesome analysis here. I’m really hoping you’ll be able to finish that second part.

Really enjoying the analysis! I think all of this information is really great to have. Can't wait for part II! (Leaving a comment so you can get that sweet, sweet engagement cash.)

I love this I haven't seen a lot of enemies on the alt path and hearing explanations of them is really helpful

23:30"well personally this enemy has never gotten me hit" *GETS HIT IN SHOWCASE*

I'm gonna be honest, I was really into the gameplay you had going on while you were talking. Tainted keeper is probably my favorite character to see, and coop just enhances it imo. Really interesting overview of the alt floors btw, I agree with just about all of your observations. Looking forward to part 2 next week!

My man this was amazing! I realy do hope this gets a part two because this was realy well done!!

Still can't get over the fact that there's now an enemy called Danny

Please make the second part, your editing style is magnificent, and the way you explain things of the game is amazing

The upsides of the alt floors aren't good enough. The rewards for visiting them are the additional mystery pedestals, the extra mirror floor and maaybe the knife familiar. The potential extra damage you can take (with the floors being slightly harder) and the additional time it takes to clear the floors (with boss rush being easier to steal from with the guaranteed fool) aren't worth the extra items (maybe slightly more with J+E?). The extra mirror floor is a little better, specially with tainted keeper for the extra floor of money, the additional pedestal for the apollyons and the extra boss if you're feeling strong enough. It's great to take a look at the boss in the regular floor to see if you dare to fight it in lost form. The knife familiar is pretty good, but it's a hassle to get it and it will most likely never make or break a run.

i like the ash pits design a lot actually. it reminds me of silent hill and that hole perpetual fire underneith creating the smoke. however i hate playing it, all the enemies are assholes

This guy is generous as all hell. "This is my least favorite enemy in the game. The sole purpose of its existence is to telefrag you and there is no indication for it being there. I have lost countless runs to this enemy and would celebrate were it removed. High C tier."

Another best part about the Mirror World in Downpour/Dross is that if the floor is XL, you can get 2 extra boss items insead of just one (opinions about the floors now, without full enemy opinions) In my opinion Dross really sucks for the layout and music, mainly layout What makes Downpour so good for me on the other hand is the Mirror World soundtrack, it feels strangely nostalgic and calming, I could listen to it for hours straight and not get tired of it at all Mines is a cool floor for both layout and enemy design, Ashpit is almost the complete opposite The biggest flaw of Ashpit is the difficulty spike really going high for being one of the early floors, making it really hard to go through hitless The one cool thing about that floor however is the Bombgagger throwing out HUGE bombs, and getting them with Safety Scissors is even cooler because they deal a LOT more damage than normal bombs depending on the distance enemies get hit from them, and synergyze with the rockets too! The soundtrack is alright for both, less for Ashpit Mausoleum, same as Mines, has a really cool design and a great soundtrack The only thing I really despise about Mausoleum are the Snappers, they have a really long range and once you are in their line of sight, you pretty much can't do anything about it Gehenna is also really cool, but suffers from the same problem as Mausoleum, the Snappers being way too strong and annoying The rest of the enemies are fine tho and the difficulty is balanced well with the hidden insta kill buttons behind the tall pillars Corpse is an alright floor with the greenish layout and an alright soundtrack, the enemy design is really good with the right amount of difficulty, maybe too much poisonous gas

This video is pretty useful to me just for its coverage of all the alt path enemies, that'll be really helpful for getting down their patterns.

I know this video is old but, as a veteran Isaac player who only recently got into Repentance, I have to share something I learned the hard way: Polty's can steal your marked rocks if you let them sit in a room long enough. They don't break them, they just pick it up and leave. I was so flabbergasted when I saw that and had to applaud. Kinda put them in the s tier for me.

I love this series so much please continue

Praise the fish god

Say what you will about the Ashpit, but the music is such a banger.

Big brain gamer tip, go to ch.1½ after basment 2, so you get downpour 2, the go to caves 2, then depths 2, even if you don't want knife pieces, you get hella boss items, due to boss trap spawns, really good for the losts.

pretty nice video i really enjoy these commentary of videos!

Throwing my 2cents in, I love the altfloors. On average I try and get to downpour because I think it's generally a lot easier on average than a second burning basement or dealing with Caves. The potential to get super strong immediately with an extra item is too valuable to miss most of the time. Plus being the lost in the mirror dimension makes me feel stronger than usual because I'm allowed to take a hit per room lol

Great video! Honestly, I love this kind of content, keep it up!

The worst thing about the clear path structure to get to mother is that you need to have the resources to open the alt path doors, the biggest one being the health sacrifice door after going through ASSPIT wich has some of the worst bosses and having to do the chase sequence with mother where you might get lucky with the rooms but usually contains a room where you get hit once or twice. And now you go to gehenna in a weakened state and have to fear for your life to not get hit by random damage. No wonder most of my mother runs with harder characters end in death

Also about downpour, if you are not going mother you can reroll the knife piece into something else

I think there's a couple reasons why they definitely "fit". One would be that Edmund said himself that he wouldn't have collaborated if the floors felt out of place for the game and the second reason is even if the floors did feel out of place, they now make up almost half of the game which is definitely enough to change TBOI's identity as a whole

Tbh I dont hate ashpits THAT much maybe it is just me but when I see an empty room I inmediately think dusts, so they dont come as a surprise most of the time the enemy that makes me fear ash pit is actually princess carrion. You can only hurt them in the back which can be difficult at times. One thing that could improve the asthetics is having ash particles in the floor that get pushed out when anything, including enemies, move through them, creating a trail. that could also work for dusts, making them like wraiths in a way, where you have to look at the floor to see their position

Can we appreciate the quality of the editing in this video

Can’t wait for part 2!

Comment to boost the algorithm, I love seeing these types of in-depth discussions and would love to see this series get completed.

I love how you started playing the combat version of the music when talking about enemies.

You know what’s awesome, with wraiths if you pass through the mirror as the lost you can see them as normally

ashpit music is S+ tier

Ashpit is so much better with Fiend Folio installed. FF gives each floor a unique design for rocks and pots, and the rusted metal that the Ashpit is filled with makes it sort of feel like a factory lost to time.

Personally, I really like ashpit and the skeleton aesthetic it has. Having said that, I can totally see where you're coming from and I came up with some ideas I like: 1) Some firey skelebois would be pretty cool 2) Unique mechanics and gimmicks like all the other alt floors have. I'm thinking better use of the invincible skull guys and something special with the dust effect (although I admit it would be difficult to do something vision obscuring without it being bs) 3) I've never had much issue with dusts but they are pretty annoying; I saw one guy suggest that there could be trails on the floor which would make them function similar to wraiths and I think that works pretty well. Plus making them not teleport as often at least 3) I think it would be cool to expand on the more projectile focused theme it has going on

I only have one problem with the alt floors. There's no strong reason to go through them after you've gotten every Mother unlock, both small scale and large. On a small scale, it's a more difficult path than the basic one, which is obvious, but there's almost no reward for it. For Chapter 1.5, you're giving up a key and are fighting less predictable enemies for a blind option as an alternative Item to the treasure room and whatever you find in the mirror (additional Boss Item and some extra pickups) which is fair. Chapter 2.5 on the other hand costs 2 Bombs and you're dealing with very tanky and very fast enemies. You're reward is the same blind Item gimmick as before and a complete knife which does... very little damage. Far less rewarding, more costly, and more dangerous. And chapter 3.5 is just terrible. Same deal as before BUT it costs 2 Hearts for JUST the blind Item thing, as well as another difficulty spike. On a large scale, every other route in the game yields at least two, and potentially more if you so choose (with the exception of the Dogma route as well). In a single playthrough of the Afterbirth+ route, you can potentially acquire the marks for Boss Rush, Mom's Heart, Hush, Isaac/Satan, ???/The Lamb, Mega Satan, and Delirium. That is 7 unlocks in a single run! 7! Even in Greedier Mode, you'll get two! In Mother, you'll get a grand total of one, and possibly Boss Rush, which you can get much easier on a normal run. Actually I take what I said earlier about the Dogma route back, because even then, it has its draw of the Tainted Character unlock, as well as the benefits of red key shards, being able to get the treasure rooms you skipped for the planetarium on the way back, what you said about being able to choose your path during the run, AND even being accessible with the Faded Polaroid in a similar fashion to what you recommended with opening the Mom's Heart door. Any way you slice it, the Mother Route was a huge disappointment with no real yield save one run per character.

Fun facts: Sub horfs can rarely appear on the default path, but they look identical to regular horfs If there's no more things to throw at you, polties will try to fly away After throwing everything else at you, polties will grab a tinted rock and try to steal it

Drip and splurt can walk on gaps

To be entirely fair I started a new profile for Repentance and I unlocked the alt floors really quickly just because the most time consuming part of doing so (killing mom's heart 10x) is part of what you have to do to unlock the D6 anyway so I imagine I'm not the only one who rushes that achievement

PLEASE give us a part 2...I love this kind of game feel discussion and the 'What Issac truly is' question I liked using the alt paths for Jacob and Esau since you get both items with a bit of cheese...But personally I feel like there should be more high skill ceiling challenges like Chapter 1.5's mirror world. Like imagine in chapter 2.5 that you get your items taken away if you go into the minecart like normal...but instead you have all your items spawn as item pedestals and you can only fight the second boss on that floor with one item...You then get all your items back leaving the room like the shadow mother chase. TLDR: More high skill challenges for rewards would be great to diversify the floors and make it worth while to go to them instead of being the path to Mother

As someone who came as basically a new player to repentance, starting from a brand new file, I agree the difficulty curve felt super smooth! Nice to see edmund caring not just about veterans but also new players. Also the mirror world knife part is even more fun without holy mantle unlocked, espacially going for the extra boss drop always kept me at stress and it's super fun. While I agree those floors have some BS in them, overall I really do enjoy playing thtough them, they are suoer fun and well done. My only gripe is that the second knife piece is kinda tedious and they could have instead done something that has more optional content/items to go for (perhaps a twisted mines floor with mother chasing you like tainted j&e?) Also dross and gehenna tracks are my favorite non final boss themes in the soundtrack, they are so fucking good, espacially when the heavy part kicks in, the other stage themes are also incredibly good though, such a great soundtrack.

i refuse to believe someone prefers mines ost to ashpit ost

I think that second alt floors (ashpit and mines) have a small problem of “not worth the effort”. The first alt floors provided harder challenges, a choice of item you see and item you can’t see and after all of it you get a bonus item for mirror part. I’m not saying i want mines to give more items, i think it should be as fair as downpour. A small change like choosing one of two seeable items in boss and/or treasure room like with free more options. Or a bonus item for beating the mom chase sequence (which can solve both effort problems of mines and chase sequence. Make the chase sequence more fun i guess and make mines as much benefit as downpour) I just skip mines and ashpit because it’s time, effort and health wasting process without too much to get from. Giving the possibility of choosing items i can see and get a bonus item is what i think will worth my time and effort. Or if i just want to relax and go for easy quest, i skip alts and go for classic

I really agree that there should be some benefit to getting the harder floors because rn it just feels like you get punished for no reason. Only things I really disagree with you on are I do think that some rooms in dross can be a bit unfair if you received no dps or speed on basement 1. If you also received a speed down some of the rooms with the gas-coughing exploding mullibooms can be straight up impossible, but thats relatively rare. I also really like ashpit's theme, more than the mines or dross. Theres more mines and sewer levels in video games than you can count, but ashpit is like mass grave/crematorium where all the ashes, bones, and spirits of the dead are trying to kill you. The only thing that I think is out of place is the psychic skull guy who should probably be in mausoleum to fit with the purple psychic theme

Back in Antibirth, the Knife Pieces had to be unlocked. Once they were unlocked, you could just get them in the rooms their puzzles would have been. This would have been a good idea for Knife Piece 2, but if it removes the Mirror World, then it becomes a harder choice.

I was (and am) waiting for this

"You need to knock the bombs back at the blasters to kill them" -doesn't do that in the sample footage

i think the first floor of each chapter should have the blind item and then the second floor should be a visible double. It seems like itd be an interesting way to balance it as a reward for going with the alt path

Mom's knife can open the corpse door

Good God, I'm happy. Was expecting a video about alt floors being boring and hard, because for some reason many people think that way. Thanks for the video, I can't wait for the second part (I'm sure the first one will do great)! It's a shame you didn't rate Henry though.

I hate Ashpit as well, but one thing. The floor is sorta themed around bone enemies. Which, now that I think about it, doesn't really make any sense, because you're going from mines (rocks, fire, explosions) to ashpit (fire, rocks, bones?) Maybe they could've used wooden enemies? Things that leave trails of gunpower on the ground like Fiend Folio?

Every enemy that fire tears from above are D tier

I was introduced to repentence with a 1000000% save file My own one lol

Awesome video!

Glad to know that I’m not the only one who likes alt path.

I think that the instant death button Should be called a kill switch

The difficulty of the floors were never the issue, it's just the fact that there are so many opportunites for you to get cheapshotted. Then again this is Issac..

Good video, but I'd rank willows slightly lower at FFF tier

great video

We need a variant like the risk of rain Bazaar Between Time so we can choose which floor variant (basement/cellar, downpour/dross, etc.)

the like to dislike count says it. this video is one of the best. probably just wanted to say that i loved this and hope you continue. keep up the great work

I like how he basically calls preists brainless

>critical >praising almost everything ok

An almost 30 minutes essay on Isaac, yes, why not?

Alt floors be in the game whole time Hush Void Isaac Satan ??? Lamb They classics

FINALLY A PERSON WHO DOESN'T SAY ALT FLOOR S ARE TOO HARD!!!!

Also I'm mad they didn't name Pasty Brittle instead, to line up with Needles and Pin and the Frail

YOU FORGOT HENRY!

Birthday premiere hype

Day42 of playing as the enemies… The background vid.

Okay, now I need to know how you got the nickname "fireworm" in high school

You misst the Henry enemy in dross.

Unfair doesnt mean hard, some alt path rooms are bullshit

great video bro :)

you forgot henry when listing ennimies

"gehanna" *sad noises* GeHenna *happy noises*

It would be very good if Ed make option in options menu to change the music from repentance to antibirth. I'm using a mod for that but it would be just a really good option in my opinion