Bro, Jacob described exactly how I got through my faith crisis. Once I stopped obsessing over whether or not the church was true and started examining my core, foundational beliefs. I came to the conclusion that I believe in a supreme being of our universe (God), and I believe that there is a divine plan for us. After that, I looked for whatever religion or philosophy had the best explanation for God and our existence. I researched a bunch of religions and belief systems, and somehow the story of Joseph Smith and what he taught became so much more plausible to me, and I couldn't explain why I was so drawn to it, but I was. I can safely say that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has the best explanation for God and God's plan, and that's good enough for me. Of course there are things in the history of the church that I don't understand and that I don't have answers to, but my foundation is not built upon history or other peoples actions. It's built upon a belief that God is real and that he has a plan for us, and I haven't found a religion or philosophy that explains those things better than the LDS church.
I had a faith crisis in my twenties (before it was trendy). I got through it when I was finally honest with myself about my own choices, and with real intent went to God and prayed liked I never had before. I got the answers I was looking for.
“Before it was trendy.” I love it! I’m happy for you and joyed to know that you got through it. Conversion is truly a lifetime endeavor. There’s a reason why “endure to the end” is such an oft repeated refrain in our LDS vernacular. Because I believe God exists, because I believe His Son atoned for all of us, and because I believe that the Holy Ghost testifies of it, I have been able to remain a member of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. One has to want to believe, and that is what is gone these days; a desire to want to have faith in God and ALL that that entails.
One thing I liked about 12 Rules For Life was how familiar it was. I realized Jordan Peterson found a way to repackage gospel principles that I grew up with, but painted them with a veneer that made them appealing to non-theists.
If you're having a faith crisis, then "stop obsessing over the church and you need to go ask yourself if you believe in God". YES. That's powerful and very applicable to many of us.
OMGosh! Jacob, u made so much sense! U just knock out the doubts i had, with the faith crisis struggles ive been having! I ddnt realized ive been basing my foundation on the people of the church... WOW! I know that Jesus should be the foundation, but when I really thought about my faith crisis... It was really steming from people in the church thats the cause.... Wow! How did i let that happen!?
The day the (ex) spouse told me he full stop did not believe in the CHURCH anymore, I asked if he still had a testimony and belief in Jesus Christ. The answer was yes, always. I said, well then I'm not worried. It wasn't long before he was an atheist. Angry. Anti.
This is exactly the approach I had to take with my own faith maturing process (I like the term faith renovation). I had to forget about everything I was suddenly wondering about, and figure out first if I believed in God, and then follow each step up from there. I've been writing my whole experience down, so these thoughts are top of mind for me and the way he explained it all made a ton of sense and was so relatable.
Jacob's argument may be valid for some, but I know for me personally, the Book of Mormon and the Restoration are the evidences that laid the foundation for my faith in God and Christ. Without that foundation, I don't think I ever would have received a testimony of God's reality and His true nature. Faith isn't just belief, it's trust, it's based on evidence, whether that's physical evidence or a witness through the Spirit that something is true. So I think the Book of Mormon will always be key in conversion, even if one doesn't yet believe in God. Awesome podcasts from you guys lately, thank you so much!
I agree with you. But I think Jacob’s point about having a separate testimony (1) in the existence of God and (2) in the resurrection of Christ, is also important because those truths would not be battered by any evidence you hear that could impeach the credibility of Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon. As a believer who has gone almost exactly the journey he has, Jacob’s analysis perfectly resonated with me.
Talking with my wife yesterday helped me understand Jacob's perspective better. She grew up with a distorted view of God because of some abuse she experienced, and her testimony of God had to be "renovated" before the Restoration and Book of Mormon could become meaningful for her. So for someone who has no concept of a loving God, perhaps that may be the place to start.
7:00 Re: Fine Tuning Argument. The primary problem here is that most of the universe is overwhelmingly hostile to life as we understand it. The only place that appears hospitable so far is our tiny little blue world of Earth. But, because we exist, we are biased to see everything as being built just so that we could come into existence on our Pale Blue Dot. The argument is essentially that the universe has been fine-tuned just to make us! Yay! Our human-centric notions of God must be right! However, the more logical and statistically supportable notion is that we are a very rare and special product OF the universe. This still makes us wonderful and amazing, but it doesn't centralize humanity (or even life) as the goal of the whole cosmos. The whole Fine-Tuning argument is fundamentally a misunderstanding of cause and effect. The universe wasn't made for us. Rather, we were made by it. Douglas Adams (author of the Hitchiker's Guide) described the Fine-Tuning argument like this: “This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in - an interesting hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, it must have been made to have me in it!'
Being in a bishopric one of the biggest challenges we deal with are members not coming to church. Christ commanded the Saints to fellowship with one another. And current leaders have counselled members to partake of the sacrament. How can members do this on Zoom format or not coming to church at all? The faith crises members may be real, but they still need to come to church.
The stuff about the church being great for someone is already Christian is so true. I served in the south, so pretty much everyone I talked to was already Christian or at least had Christian roots, but one time my companion and I street contacted a woman who was Jewish and I just didn't know what to do with that.
The Transcendental Argument for God was what helped me back after losing faith. I learned it from an orthodox Christian. I had to establish that morality exists and it must necessarily come from God. CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" explains all of this very well. I'm not a true blue mormon now but still attend and my faith in God and Christ is stronger and more firm than ever. Growing up mormon, these things were never really clearly established.
I had a two friends and they were brothers who I thought they had strong testimonies. I thought they were stong members of the church and i wanted to be like them. Their dad fell away and started saying things and asking them questions that they couldn’t handle. They are regular Christans now amd they try to convince me that my beliefs are bad and i am going to hell. They talk to me like I don’t know about other beliefs and about certain things in our history. But that’s because they didn’t know. They were blind to just believing without receiving a testimony of Jesus. They have that testimony now but they lost everything else. Even though they are christans a light in them as turned off because they think drinking is okay and other stuff. I pray one day that they come back because I know that the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. Right now i am a week on my mission and I feel so tuned with the spirit and its promptings. I don’t if god didn’t establish this church that he wouldn’t let me feel the way I feel now. I know Jesus is the christ. He is the savior of all the world. He is the son of God. I know that work and faith are both important together. I know that that temples are still upon the earth because God never wanted them to go away. It’s not if Joseph smith was telling the truth then the Book of Mormon is true it is of the Book of Mormon is true then Joseph smith was telling the truth. I know that Book of Mormon speaks of truth.
@@catherinecooper8370 in our faith it is an interview question if you keep the word of wisdom. It is important because how alcohol is handle nowadays. It is handle by evil men and also wine back then is different from forms of alcohol. Drunkenness has always been a sin and drinking now days is asked by the lord to stay away from it in these last days. I watched my two friends both say that drinking is not a sin but then their habits started to contradict their beliefs and they started getting drunk on accident and one now struggles with drinking but he still says drunkenness is bad yet he does it and he tries to stop and he is getting on the right path but i watched the light go out of his eyes after he left the church. I know the word of wisdom exist for a reason and watching my friend go through that is a witness to me. Drinking in these last days is riding a fine line. And the word of wisdom became a commandment like about 10 years before the prohibition. So faithful members didn’t have be involved in that. Not drinking in this last days are important. And the necessity of alcohol was more important back then because now we have purified water. In the times of jesus and throughout most of history the water isn’t always the cleanest and alcohol purified the water a little bit more. I believe that just because we have the word of wisdom now doesn’t mean that god changes his rules. It’s simply an important truth to keep that aspect of the word of wisdom. And it is easy to pick a part what i said because I’m a 20 year old writing a message in 6 minutes.
It's true about most ex-mo's go straight atheist or agnostic. I haven't met a single ex-mo that lives as high a life of virtue as before when they left the faith, which is also consistent with the BoM characterization of apostates being more hardened than non-believers.
I think the Book of Mormon does address level 1 and 2 questions, and so it can be the means of renovating one's faith. With that said, I totally see where he's coming from about reading other sources to build from the ground up. I'm grateful that my foundation has always been my relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ since as early as I can remember. I later gained a testimony of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, living prophets, and so on because Christ revealed to me that these are His people, His words, His power, His Church, and His work.
What a great approach! I loved the thought about being overdramatic, because "crisis" does sound more dramatic than "now I have to put more work and consistency to my spiritual life". Noone likes hard work, right. And, oftop, do you guys still want to chat about Ukraine-russia lds crisis? ("Crisis", lol)
Along with studying all these sources both inside and outside the church, remember to utilize the Holy Ghost. Use the Moroni challenge found in the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:3-5 with all of these concepts individually to find out for yourself what is true.
It may have been successful to convert a prominent Christian world back in the day with the Restoration but I don’t think it is anymore. I served a mission in the Bible Belt. Mississippi Jackson Mission. It’s difficult to talk to anyone about the restoration to someone who already claims to have a connection with God.
As one who was for a time agnostic I have a somewhat different perspective of the problem, at least in my case at least. I did have strong faith rooted in Jesus when I was LDS, my problem that lead me to being agnostic was that when I lost confidence in Joseph Smith I then began to notice how many corrupt men claim to speak for God and that even sincere men seem to often exaggerate their experiences to try to prop up their sincerely held beliefs. Eventually I began to suspect that the authors of the new testament were no different. Essentially, I lost confidence in religious testimony all together and that lead to me doubting the life, miracles, and teachings of Jesus. I have since come back to faith in Jesus but the many examples of corruption by supposed religious leaders was my stumbling block. I am not now LDS but I count any who seek to follow Jesus as being my Christian brothers or sisters and that certainly seems to include most latter day saints.
Two books recently that really helped confirm my conviction of God's existence and my faith in Christ were _The Master and His Emissary_ by Iain McGilchrist and _Orthodoxy_ by G.K. Chesterton. LDS should read Chesterton: he's so excellent.
@Veritas liberabit vos How do you personally reconcile the long ending of Mark (16:9-20)? Would you ever handle a venomous snake or drink poison to prove your faith? And more specifically, how do you reconcile the long ending of Mark making its way-verbatim-into the Book of Mormon? How do you personally approach Paul’s forged letters (2 Thes, Ephesians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus)? And why do passages from these forged letters make their way into the Book of Mormon, for example Enos 1:1? Why do no contemporary writers or historians seem to know anything about the temple curtain spontaneously ripping in half after Jesus’ crucifixion, as described by Mark? You would think the Sadducees working in the temple would have been the first to witness this remarkable event (and therefore, in order to refute Christians, would have had to come up with an excuse for how it happened), yet no Jew knows anything about this prior to 70 CE. Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, Seneca the Younger, Justus of Tiberius, and other 1st century writers know absolutely nothing about this. Did Mark make this up? Is it only allegory? Why isn’t there a single 1st Century writer (other than Matthew in 85 CE) who knows anything about Herod’s Murder of the Innocents, the earthquake, 3 hours of darkness, and/or dead people rising from their graves-wandering around Jerusalem-after the crucifixion? Josephus and Philo of Alexandria never mention these events. Seneca the Younger, who was a Roman writer, nature observer, astronomer, and satirist, would have been absolutely fascinated with these events. Yet he knows nothing about them. And Nicolaus of Damascus, who was an actual advisor in Herod’s court, doesn’t ever seem to get the memo that he was complicit (or accused of being complicit) in the murder of innocent children. Is Matthew making this stuff up? Is it allegory? Is it simply “apocalyptic imagery” as described by Christian apologist Mike Lacona?
@Veritas liberabit vos please show me where I am being disrespectful in my comment. Please show me where the attacks are. Show me where the tantrum is. “Atheism is my backyard.” I’m not asking about atheism. I’m asking about the New Testament. Please help me understand what I’m missing, especially if my questions are “high-school level, maybe even middle school” tier-questions. Shouldn’t they be easy to answer, especially since they’re so juvenile?
@Veritas liberabit vos “You must do your own homework.” The New Testament is one of my favorite topics. I might not be as savvy as you, but I’m no slouch, either. I’m pretty familiar with the standard Christian apologetic answers to these questions. Among Evangelical Christians, the temple curtain answer typically goes something like this: ‘the Sadducees would have been embarrassed about their temple curtain spontaneously ripping in half, and there is absolutely no way they would have attributed it to Jesus’ crucifixion, so they covered it up and/or destroyed all evidence pertaining to this event.’ Is this the correct answer to that question? Do you give it a thumbs up? Or are you familiar with better answers than this? Because if you can point me to a book, video, article, anything that elaborates beyond that, I would be very eager to check it out. My problem with “the Jews were embarrassed, therefore they suppressed it” answer is that while the Jews most certainly would have been humiliated, the Romans would have thought this was hilarious. They would have shouted this from the rooftops. It’s very unlikely that the Jews would have been able to suppress Roman propaganda ridiculing the desecration of the Holy of Holies. The Romans also would not have attributed this incident to Jesus’ crucifixion, and most likely would have attributed it to vandalism, but an event of this magnitude would not have made it past Roman satirists. Yet no one knows about this event until Mark writes his gospel in 70 CE, 40 years after it supposedly occurred. Please tell me, the ‘middle-schooler’, what I’m missing here. Is there other historical attestation that I’ve missed? Or should I just remain content with the ‘embarrassed’ answer? Mike Lacona and William Lane Craig seem to be the apologists that many Christians go to for the Matthew questions. Would you say their answers are the best ones? Do you go with the “apocalyptic imagery” answer like they do, or are you aware of historical attestation-outside of Matthew-that corroborates the earthquake, the darkness, and dead people walking around Jerusalem? And if you’re not aware of contemporary attestation prior to 85 CE, is the correct answer simply “it happened, just have faith and accept it”? This is an awesome opportunity for you. You can show me what I’m ignorant about, and point me in the right direction. Help me graduate from middle school so I can be as knowledgeable as you.
2 great metaphors from Jacob: 1. Temple (your core belief system) Renovation begins at the foundation. 2. Reassemble the shattered puzzle. Where do you start? Where you always start a puzzle; with the borders and corners: the Framework. Then you fill in pieces you have sorted and associated, thanks to the picture on the box. Simple..... but not easy. And worth it. My first mission president taught the 5 core testimony that began with God, then Christ, then Book of Mormon, then Joseph Smith, then the Living Prophet. All other things are appended to these core principles. I think this is what Jacob is talking about.
Great podcast. I agree totally that general belief in God is a huge fight that needs to be waged. At this point though there's been enough time of secularism that you don't even need fancy arguments to convince someone. Just point to you're average atheist and then your average Christian and that's all the argument you need
I am truly amazed from what i have read of CS Lewis and as I listen to Jordan Peterson at the depth of understanding that is possible with just the Bible essentially and inside the Church we have this sense of superiority but we don't leverage the additional resources at our disposal to come to the depth of understanding that people like Jordan Peterson have.
Last comment, I promise: Human Secularism is essentially atheist without the selfishness you speak of. I know plenty of selfish individualists, believer and non-believer. But most atheists I know subscribe to Human Secularism. Anecdotal, I admit.
If Joseph smith fell through I would believe in Jesus as a person with high moral teachings and God as a set of universal truths. So I guess a sort of Deism, like a young Ben Franklin. But the first vision of Joseph Smith is such a game changer for me. Also the Book of Mormon, along with its many witnesses, really solidifies for me an acting god of miracles who I am in the similitude of. The New Testament is so old from such a different culture, I think it’s own authority is not solid enough for me to base my entire life on
Just because you can’t imagine where Humans came from doesn’t mean it was God. It’s amazing that the Religion you are born is always turns out to be the true Religion.
My mother would beg to differ. As would my father in law. So would about 15-25% of the people with whom I attend church with each and every Sunday. Many people leave their churches that they were born into, especially the growing number of atheists. 😮 If people do not see atheism or social justice theology or even other forms of modern secularism as religions, I can’t help them.
I agree 100% with what your guest is saying here. I mean, I love Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the Restoration. But where is our focus supposed to be? Where was Joseph’s focus? It wasn’t on himself. It was on Jesus Christ, our Savior, Redeemer, and King. Joseph didn’t always read from the Book of Mormon. He read from the Bible even more. But due to the fact that the Book of Mormon brings us to feel the Spirit, and learn more fully of Christ, we are urged to read it. Therefore, I believe, that leads us to forget what is the reason for it all; Jesus Christ!
I believe this is what The Chosen is doing for the world. It’s going to the “level 1” stuff and introducing people to an authentic Jesus. God is using people outside of the church (Dallas Jenkins, Jordan Peterson, etc.) to help spread the gospel.
I love to listen to Jordan Peterson. In fact his lecture and philosophy only strengthens my conviction to God and Jesus Christ. I can see him growing into a son of God and struggling to come to know for himself. In his effort to know and understand God his is helping others come to know God.
This is exactly why Joseph Smith wrote the lectures on faith.... it's what the first Latter Day Saint missionaries taught. Lectures on Faith are amazing doctrine! They were the "doctrine" of The Doctrine and Covenants.
Rather than argue for the existence (and relevance) of God, the church historically said, 'Here. Read the scriptures and pray on it. When the answer comes from God you'll know there's a God. What better witness can you have than from God?' But in today's world I can see the place of pro God arguments. Even though they are just man's reasoning we still need reasons and some of them are compelling.
I have 8 children and only 1 is still in the Church. He is the youngest and is preparing to go on a mission. So It is a story that I am living as a father.
@@madmanmanx yes just like you read it. If you want the whole story I can keep you entertained for hours. Because 2 of the children I did not want to be baptized but the Bishop convinced me to go ahead with it, and another I was given revelation when he was 5 that he would go Judas on the family and by the age of 13 he was doing great and then at 14 we had to put him in foster care, the details are crazy.
I find Brad stating that God as defined by Joseph is the only one that makes sense to him interesting. I used to feel that way and find the whole "God in embryo" idea to be probably the most powerful and interesting part of Mormon theology. And yet, looking into other religionists arguments on God and whatnot, it became pretty clear that Mormonism's view of God is pretty problematic. Mormon God is essentially a superhuman - this can fit with an evolutionist view of the universe but really throws a wrench into the Omnipotent, Omniscient creator of the Universe most of Christianity believes in. Mormonism simply pushes the Origin of Life argument back a few steps and it becomes Turtles All the way Down. I really don't see how arguments like Kalaam and Fine-tuning work for Mormonism on any grand scale.
Jacob’s question at 14:07 is so key and Kwaku addresses it in other episodes too. If you believe in Christ and all the miracles that come with Him, the other things are non-issues. Most of the objections to Church History have counterparts recorded in the Gospels
Fellow MM fans, I have discovered the best book ever for LDS folks. It explains how you are not actually in Christ unless you have experienced the baptism of fire. It is called Putting on Christ by Steven Anthony Bishop. It has thousands of references to scripture, ancient prophets, and modern prophets and a whole lot of them are from Joseph Smith. Truly coming unto Christ will put all faith crises behind you forever.
@@madmanmanx He's got some good insights and brings a refreshing mature contrast to the other hosts. (Not saying the other hosts are super immature......Okay maybe Kwaaku)
I feel like Cardon doesnt like this guy a lot, he kept cutting and making so many corny jokes, interrupting, like maybe he was bored. Hard to watch for me, but I still enjoy the content
Shoot. As a disaffected LDS saint for 5 years I was hoping for more than, "this is how I validated my previously held beliefs and discount most of my family." I must be coming here because I miss something about the church, but this is definitely not what I miss. I did stop at 9:19, so maybe I didn't give it enough time? I truly enjoy most of your content though. Maybe the next one will hit better for me.
I did the whole faith reconstruction thing. Everything Jacob is saying hear really resonates with me. I’m also a big JP fan. Everyone has got to listen to his Bible lectures. They’re amazing.
I finally decided to actually read your disclaimer and the fact that you had to even say Jk or lol even one time let alone three times tells you how lame this world has become …I know, it’s the way we B O O M E R S raised our brats🙄 Now on to watching the show😂
I am one of those people that says without Joseph Smith I could not have a god. But without that God Joseph Smith would be nothing. Joseph Smith could come to me himself and tell me he was a con man and of this stuff that he said was true that the Book of Mormon was fabricated and everything else, and I would tell him it is not upon you to tell me who is a prophet or not is upon God who told me that you were end of story
My problem with Peterson is he argues largely for pragmatism that values usefulness of christianity/theism over what is the truth. he moves you east and west and calls it north. Peterson picks God as a model or conceptual idea. Pick this thing because it helps, who cares if its real or not. Peterson, when pressed can't define God. Pragmatism can't be a measure for what is good or the truth. You have to get down to what is the standard of how to live a good life/find truth and how do you justify that standard.
I never felt like I had a Faith Crisis. IMO the Mormon church in particular & Christianity in general have suffered from a Truth Crisis. Packer's comments on truth really sum it up for me - Mormons, in general, don't like to talk about hard things. Your channel in particular constantly reminds how important language is to effective dialogue. I find some of you are sometimes a little loose with definitions and that too many of you (Cardon!! 😂) like broad, generalizing labels that are simply meant to "other' people you disagree with. But it is fair to say that I, an unbeliever, went through an extensive Faith Remodel when it became clear how sandy my foundation was, a foundation built during years of being a faithful Mormon. Whether that ineffective foundation was my own fault or the church's, I don't know, probably both. But no one can say I didn't make every effort to reinforce it.
My brother became atheist / agnostic after he lost his testimony in the Book of Mormon. He said once he found out the Book of Mormon wasn’t historical and had issues, he then applied the same research to the Bible and says it isn’t historical either. Instantly, he no longer believed the Bible stories; Adam and Eve, Noah, Moses, Jesus, Matthew, Mark, etc… How do I help him?
Great video! 2 Nephi 2: 14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon. 2 Nephi 11:7 For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.
I’d say that Jacob hit the nail on the head, but I think belief in God/Christ and in the Restoration are enmeshed in one - where both are almost necessary for each other. I think we have so much evidence and backing of the restoration, and also refutation of other churches’ doctrines, that if the restoration is false then it seems like both God and the Church are lies. Such as the “to where do we go” idea - you can still believe in Christ without the restoration, but then what? You know most other churches don’t have the fullness of the Gospel so then atheism/agnosticism becomes the only other alternative that seems plausible.
I wish I was apart if the conversation with Jacob because I have so many thoughts about this discussion. But Jacob, there’s more levels to it then just God, Jesus and Restoration. To go from God to Jesus you have to Assume a lot about God for it to make sense. And you have to assume a lot about the New Testament for it to make sense. If you assume certain aspects about God then the Jesus story is superior. But the questions still remain. If there is a God? What is his Nature? Theistic, Deistic, Pantheistic? To a lot of secular minded people. Theistic doesn’t make any sense. I know you said that there’s a good Christianity because how much success and influence it’s had on the Western World. But on what relevance is that on the truthfulness about it. Because the possibility still remains that there is a God and he had nothing to do with Christianity.
Joseph Smith is literally the author and finisher of so many faiths. One has to ask who gives a man that kind of power. The answer for me is the author and finisher of faith. I'm also 1 of 8 and the only one hanging in. On my mission I went out and tore down faith and had 0 success it wasn't until I learned to build on a person's foundation of Christ already in place did I finally obtain the spirit to teach. Your foundation has to be Christ once u recognize the spirit of the new testament its easy to recognize in the another testament. It's more potent in Josephs book tho for me at least and dnc forget about it sometimes I can't even read that book. Last thing I want is to have the veil burst no thank u ignorance is bliss.
I’m with cardon and kwaku. People fall to atheism because the conception of god and Jesus that the church teaches isn’t found anywhere else. I also think it’s because the same tools you use to evaluate the church and leave can be evaluate Christianity and find it lacking as well.
I listened to hundred of hours of Anti Mormons and then found Kwaku, Truman Madsen ad Daniel C. Petersen. Now I am a Melch Warrior proselyting In The streets of Sodom and Gomorrah in Commiefornia
@@krismurphy7711 Small horse remnants hitherto unearthed is entirely plausible. Explain Nahom. Or various metal plates now being discovered like Darius
@@GrassrootsLibertyBillFoster So Captain Moroni rode a "small horse" leading the 2000 Stripling Warriors into battle??? THAT is a Frieberg painting I'd love to see!!!
@@GrassrootsLibertyBillFoster The Church has long touted metal plates....and there are a number of examples. The most disturbing thing of recent publicity is that Joseph allegedly used a Rock in a Hat to "translate" the Plates.
@@krismurphy7711 ... No erudite archaeologist knew of predecessor civilations recording on metal plates their respective lineage histories... This had later been discovered by archaeologists in Persians, and various Latino cultures in Central America and even Italians.... Insofar as the translation involving a white stove pipe hat, yes, that is miraculously true. Shall look up Frieburg ? Paintings my friend !
"How do we unsuck at such things"??? Jesus' Gospel in the NT was LOVE...FORGIVENESS...SERVICE. LDS/Smith "Gospel" is A-Z including the kitchen sink and then you find out you need Secret Handshakes and Passwords and getting your robe on the correct shoulder.
39:45 YO Cardon we definitely need to chat now. If anything I am Taoist after leaving. I am currently working on my own rendition of the Tao Te Ching. I absolutely disagree with Jacob here because the Tao came before Christ and Christ actually said so much of what is in the Tao. The point isn’t that the East has been held back, it’s that the West is too lazy to understand. They’d rather just kill Christ than actually listen. Additionally, the fact that Jacob wants someone on to convince him that Taoism is superior to Christianity tells me he’s never read the Tao, nor spoken with anyone familiar with Zen.
Great episode, guys. Though Christianity vs. Eastern belief systems like Buddhism and Taoism is very much an apples/oranges comparison. I'm a Buddhist/Taoist Latter-day Saint.
Buddhism is really good about the subtraction part of spirituality- clearing away bad patterns of thinking and so forth. Taoism is awesome for setting realistic expectations about life. The Dalai Lama recently said he hopes people take Buddhism and use it to become better whatever they already are, whether that's Christian, atheist, or anything else.
Hey Jacob and Midnight Mormons, Great content! Last week my friend and I just started downloading our 10 year project, called the Proof of God Video Series on this exact topic. Using the videos we are able to reason with any individuals who have never believed in God, and/or who have completely lost their faith in him. Thus, through reasoning, each video presents, step by step facts, and principles that lead individuals back to God, and from God back to Jesus and from Jesus we present and use the 18 pillars of truth to find Christ's Church. Our series is split up into 9 Phases and each phase of belief composes of 2 to 3 Videos and each phase brings a person one step closer to the truth. We should have all of our videos up within the next day or two. These videos are meant for anyone that would like to use them as a tool to bring their family or friend back to Jesus Christ and his Church and if not to Christ's Church, at least back to Jesus Christ and if not to Christ at least back to believing in God again.
The reason why so many exmormons become atheists is because in Mormonism there is already no real God. The gods of Mormonism are exalted humans that all had a beginning and one time had bodies of flesh and bone. The concept of an omnipresent, omnipotent, immaterial God who created all things does not exist in Mormonism so it is no stretch for an ex Mormon to say “there is no God”
37:27 "If Joseph Smith fell through..." Kwaku. FAMILIAR COMMENT...spoken even by LDS Prophets. I want to THANK YOU for agreeing that IT IS POSSIBLE THAT JOSEPH SMITH WAS A FAKER.
@Veritas liberabit vos OH I WISH it was that simple. First, all "the baggage" of true and complete Church History FIRST DEMANDS answering whether Smith was a Fraud or Not. And as I've pointed out often, WHERE IS THE CHURCH IN 2022 vs WHERE SHOULD IT HAVE BEEN if it were a true Restoration...or if it didn't have all the historical Joseph Smith in particular BAGGAGE....? Please name one sect/denomination of Christianity which has RECOGNIZED the Restoration and "joined up with" the SLC LDS Church??? Certainly in almost 200 years, other misguided sects, lacking Authority, would recognize THE ONE TRUE CHURCH?
The "crisis" occurs when you truly believed the Church was true and felt what you thought was the Holy Ghost telling you that AND then being forced by overwhelming evidence to see it is a fraud. You not only lose your faith in the Church but also in the existence of God.
"spouse cheated on them"....? Dehlin??..... He was EXCOMMUNICATED FOR SEEKING TRUTH AND FACTS. He felt like more than spousal cheating. And that is what he does now, FT, and it bugs the crap out of you.
@Veritas liberabit vos BULLSHIT. I never used the word "liar" LIAR!!. What all has Dehlin done? Published facts, truths, stories, held discussions. AND The Church excommunicated him for it....FOR SEEKING THE TRUTH!!! (Motto of BYU? "The Glory of God is Intelligence"?????)
@@veritasliberabitvos200you’re 100%. I listened to that guy ONLY because of his misleading title. He knows what he’s doing, he knew what he was doing, he knows what he’s going to do; capitalize off the backs of destroyed faith and broken families and literally completing the truth that Satan seeks to make others miserable like himself. 😮
