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a fun functional equation with an inverse twist 

Michael Penn
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17 янв 2023

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Комментарии : 156   
@vokuheila
@vokuheila Год назад
I eyeballed the solution f(x) = x + C immediately at the beginning but I would never have come up with that proof lol.
@BrianGriffin83
@BrianGriffin83 Год назад
It is immediately evident that this is a solution, the point is to prove it's the only one...
@tomasstride9590
@tomasstride9590 Год назад
To be honest I have to confess that some type of problems I find more difficult than others. These problem I do find difficult. Knowing which path to follow is often for me very difficult and I think it would have taken me a very long time indeed to find this particular route.
@TranquilSeaOfMath
@TranquilSeaOfMath Год назад
8:17 I loved your change from weak induction to strong induction on the fly and the explanation of the difference. You made it understandable.
@Dshado
@Dshado Год назад
@4:05 2 times 2 is 4 - 1 that's 3 QUICK MATHS
@GiornoYoshikage
@GiornoYoshikage Год назад
YEP
@yahav897
@yahav897 Год назад
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that!
@aln4075
@aln4075 Год назад
This dude has taught me more math than my own teacher👌🏽
@lorenzoguerra3377
@lorenzoguerra3377 Год назад
I solved it this way: Let g(x) be f(x)-x. Then the equation f(x) + f^(-1)(x) = 2x can be rewritten as g(x) =g(f^(-1)(x)). Since x is arbitrary we can plug in "x=f(x)" and get g(f(x)) = g(x). Now take x and y real numbers. Let a=g(x) and b= g(y). We have g(x) =a -> f(x) = x+a -> g(x+a) = g(f(x)) = a -> f(x+a) = x+ 2a -> ... After n steps (this is formalized by an induction argument) we deduce that f(x+na) = x+(n+1)a. Similarly f(y+nb) = y+ (n+1)b. I claim that a=b. Indeed, if, arguing by contradiction, it were not the case, then either a
@kilianklaiber6367
@kilianklaiber6367 Год назад
Wow, lots of great tricks. I just guessed the solution after figuring out a few relationships between f(0), f(x0)=0 and f(2x0). My hunch was that it was a linear equation mx+n and I could prove quickly that m=1.
@BrianGriffin83
@BrianGriffin83 Год назад
Nice! About the proof by induction: *it would've been fun to write down explicitly the base case (n=0), which boils down to x=x (assuming, as usual, that f_0 is the identity). *I think it's easier to replace x by f(x) in the induction hypothesis formula to get to the same result more easily, and with no need of strong induction.
@Anonymous-zp4hb
@Anonymous-zp4hb Год назад
I solved it in a slightly different way: Rather than substitute x for f(x), Subtract f(x), Apply f, then take the derivative to yield: 1 = ( 2 - f'(x) ) f'( 2x - f(x) ) If we call the left factor A = 2 - f'(x) and the right factor B = f'( 2x - f(x) ) Then because of the 'strictly increasing' rule, B > 0 and so A > 0 f'(x) < 2 implies B < 2 implies A > 1/2 implies B < 3/2 implies A > 2/3 implies B < 4/3 implies A > 3/4 implies B < 5/4 ... implies f'(x) = 1 f'(x) = 1 leaving f(x) = x + c as the only solution.
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr Год назад
It was not given that the function is differentiable, so assuming that might have potentially lost some solutions.
@Anonymous-zp4hb
@Anonymous-zp4hb Год назад
@@Notthatkindofdr Valid point. I took 'strictly increasing' to mean f'(x) > 0 for all x in the reals. When what was meant, was probably that f(a) > f(b) for all a > b. If that's the case, then yes. My argument doesn't work.
@zsoltbihary3347
@zsoltbihary3347 Год назад
I also immediately took the derivative and worked from there, getting f'(x) = 1. This illustrates me being a physicist, and not a mathematician. It did not even cross my mind that f(x) may not be differentiable :) As such, my solution is not valid, I only found a subset of the functions.
@yahav897
@yahav897 Год назад
I hope your never stop using colors. I thoroughly enjoy how it's much more aesthetic; as math should be
@tahirimathscienceonlinetea4273
Indeed it's amazing and more technical solution bravo .
@dneary
@dneary Год назад
@Michael Penn: I came across this nice math contest problem I thought you might like - it mixes at least 2 aspects you like a lot. The question is: "Find all functions f:R+ to R such that: 1) f(1) = 0 2) f(ab) = f(a) + f(b) 3) f(2) and f(3) are integers." I liked it a lot at the time, and still fish it out from time to time with students.
@swenji9113
@swenji9113 Год назад
I'm extremely curious about this problem. The first condition is redondant with the second one so you might as well remove it. Condition 2 is equivalent to saying that f restricted to exp(a*Q) is a logarithm for each real number a, but those logarithms might be different for different values of a, depending on the axiom of choice. If you choose to use the axiom of choice, you can construct solutions f while choosing exactly the images of a set of positive real numbers A provided that ln(A) is a Q-linearly independent set. Setting A ={2,3}, if you accept that ln(2) and ln(3) are linearly independent over Q, that makes a looooot of solutions to your problem. For example for any pair of integers (m,n), there is a solution f with f(2)=m, f(3)=n. I find the problem quite fun like you stated it but I don't think a math contest would ever give a problem that cannot be decided in ZF (there are models where there are no solutions). Are you sure that was exactly the phrasing of the problem?
@dneary
@dneary Год назад
@@swenji9113 You might be right about f(1)=0 not being in the original question, it is redundant. I also missed a very important ordering condition: if a\leq b then f(a) \leq f(b). Otherwise that is the problem. What bases have you found for a log function that make both f(2) and f(3) integers?
@swenji9113
@swenji9113 Год назад
@@dneary Oh I see ! If the function is increasing then so is f(exp). Since f(exp) is Q-linear, it must be R-linear, and therefore f is a logarithm (or the zero function), say f(x) = k*ln(x). But if k is not equal to 0, then ln(3)/ln(2) would be rational. It know it isn't, but I don't know how to prove it... therefore k=0 and f=0. Is that it ?
@dneary
@dneary Год назад
@@swenji9113 it is! And proving it is straightforward with the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. If log_2(3) = p/q then 2^p=3^q for integers p,q
@swenji9113
@swenji9113 Год назад
@@dneary Right! It was much simpler than I thought! Nice problem, thanks :)
@saadbenalla3678
@saadbenalla3678 Год назад
Amazing problems I love these type of things
@juancappa3838
@juancappa3838 Год назад
Nice! The equation f(x) + f^-1(x) = a x has a solution if and only if a \geq 2. Solution for a > 2: Let r, r^-1, with r > 1, be the roots of the quadratic equation x^2 - a x + 1 = 0. Case 1: f(0) = 0. In this case there are 4 solutions: 1) f1(x) = r x 2) f2(x) = r x when x > 0 and f(x) = r^-1 x when x < 0 3) The inverse of f1 4) The inverse of f2. Case 2) f(x) ≠ 0. We may without loss of generality assume f(0) > 0 (because otherwise f^-1(0) < 0 and the equation is symmetric in f and f^-1). Let x1 be any positive number. Then f can be defined in the interval [0, x1] as any function such that f(0) = x1, f(x1) = a x1, and (*) For any x, y such that 0 \leq x < y \leq x1, we have r^-1 \leq (f(y) - f(x))/(y-x) \leq r. Any such function can be uniquely extended to a complete solution of the equation (i.e. defined in the real line R). Observations: 1) The condition (*) is equivalent to: (**) For any x, y such that 0 \leq x < y \leq x1, we have r^-1 \leq lower derivative of f(x) and upper derivative of f(x) \leq r. 2) The proof is pretty straightforward having in mind Michael's solution for a = 2. The only tricky part is perhaps showing there are no more solutions in case 1 above. Cheers!
@byronwatkins2565
@byronwatkins2565 Год назад
I would say that f^n --> n applications of f() is quite consistent with math notation... especially since f^{-1} is already present.
@user-en5vj6vr2u
@user-en5vj6vr2u Год назад
I was thinking this
@schweinmachtbree1013
@schweinmachtbree1013 Год назад
Yes but sadly only _quite_ consistent because the standard (and silly) notations sin²(x), cosⁿ(x), etc. mess it up :/ (there is no reason why we can't write trig identities as sin(x)² + cos(x)² = 1, sec(x)² - tan(x)² = 1 and so on though)
@byronwatkins2565
@byronwatkins2565 Год назад
@@schweinmachtbree1013 Many already do, but it is still uncommon.
@slavinojunepri7648
@slavinojunepri7648 7 месяцев назад
This got to be one of the most delicious proof I have ever seen. This is math artistic craft in action.
@aweebthatlovesmath4220
@aweebthatlovesmath4220 Год назад
Hey Michael will you ever make a video about galois theory?
@mantisbog
@mantisbog Год назад
Me? No.
@RobbieRosati
@RobbieRosati Год назад
I did it by comparing the two expressions from taking x->f(x), and from applying f to both sides of the equation after rearranging. This gives: a f(x) - f(f(x)) = x f( ax - f(x)) = x Both of those being simultaneously true means that f(x) must be linear! So we can just set f(x) = mx + b, the inverse to x/m - b/m, and solve for m. You get a quadratic, and can find m = a/2 +- ( (a/2)^2 -1 )^(1/2) . b is forced to be zero generically, unless a=2. We require a >= 2 to avoid any problems with the square root, and can easily verify that 1/m + m = a.
@ffggddss
@ffggddss Год назад
Actually, the inverse fn is (x - b)/m = x/m - b/m I think the rest of your method will still arrive at the same conclusion... Except I think you want 1/m = m, not -m, which would make m = ±i. Fred
@RobbieRosati
@RobbieRosati Год назад
@@ffggddss thanks for the correction, I updated my comment. Actually I get that b must be zero unless a=2, and then I get the same two solutions for m.
@kiyagiles655
@kiyagiles655 Год назад
I came from it at a completely different angle to what was done in the video. I basically used calculus which does use the assumption that f must be differentiable which people have already stated in the comments but I think it's still worth considering. I see that others have used this approach already for example by differentiating both sides which involves differentiating the inverse which isn't too bad to do. However, thinking that it wasn't possible to take the derivative of the inverse, I went for a different approach, it goes as follows: First eliminate the inverse, by doing the substitution y = f^-1(x), f(y) = x f(x) = f(f(y)). Sub in to equation, we get f(f(y)) + y = 2f(y), differentiate both sides to get f'(f(y))*f'(y) + 1 = 2f'(x) For clarity Let Z = f(y) f'(Z)*Z' + 1 = 2Z', now write out the derivatives in a slightly different way to get (df/dz)(dz/dy) + 1 = 2(dz/dy) df/dy + 1 = 2(dz/dy), Z' = f'(y) f'(y) + 1 = 2f'(y), f'(y) = 1, f(y) = y + C Now f(f^-1(x)) = f^-1(x) + C, x = f^-1(x) + C x = 2x - f(x) + C, f(x) = x + C
@pavanato
@pavanato Год назад
Great solution! I believe you just made one typo on "f'(f(y))*f'(y) + 1 = 2f'(x)" It should have been 2'f(y) on the right hand side
@kiyagiles655
@kiyagiles655 Год назад
@@pavanatoyour right, it should be 2f'(y) not 2f'(x). Of course not making any typos was way too good to be true
@kiyagiles655
@kiyagiles655 Год назад
I also tried out differentiating both sides straight off, firstly I showed that (f^-1(x))' = 1/f'(f^-1(x)). f^-1(x) = y, x = f(y), 1 = f'(y)*dy/dx, dy/dx = 1/f'(y) = 1/f'(f^-1(x)) f'(x) + 1/f'(f^-1(x)) = 2 f'(x)f'(2x - f(x)) + 1 = 2f'(2x - f(x)) Let y = 2x - f(x), dy/dx = 2 - f'(x) (2 - dy/dx)f'(y) + 1 = 2f'(y) f'(y)*dy/dx = 1, (df/dy)(dy/dx) = 1 df/dx = 1, f(x) = x + C. However if I integrate both sides of f'(y)*dy/dx = 1, We get f(y) = x + C, which doesn't make sense, what am I missing?
@0xTJ
@0xTJ Год назад
That chalk looks really cool!
@BridgeBum
@BridgeBum Год назад
The chalk does "pop" with whatever they are doing to the saturation, I personally find what it does to his skin (especially his hands) distracting.
@alecnash4947
@alecnash4947 Год назад
Great video as always! I am curious where functional equations occur in math outside simply solving them? Are there any fields of math that deal with functional equations and have other ways of solving them?
@jimschneider799
@jimschneider799 Год назад
Both differential and difference equations are pretty common throughout the sciences, the former relating functions and their derivatives, and the later relating the difference between function values to the difference between their arguments.
@akumeoy2642
@akumeoy2642 Год назад
First, note that f(x)=x is a trivial solution. Now suppose f(a) = b for some constants a != b. It follows that f^-1(b) = a. f(b) + f^-1(b) = 2b ---> f(b) + a = 2b ---> f(b) = 2b - a. f(b) - f(a) = (2b-a) - b = b - a. [f(b) - f(a)]/[b-a] = 1. This means that the average slope of f is 1 over any finite nonzero interval, which means all solutions are of the form f(x) = x + c for a constant c. I don't know if this is a rigorous solution but I think the general argument is sound.
@douglasfeather3745
@douglasfeather3745 Год назад
Your reasoning is not correct. You got [f(b) - f(a)]/[b-a] = 1 but not for all a and b, you have only established this for those a and b for which f(a) = b.
@michaelslack8900
@michaelslack8900 Год назад
I tried to solve this from the thumbnail alone... Wish I'd known about the strictly increasing
@theloganator13
@theloganator13 Год назад
Could you expand on why taking the limit as n tends to infinity makes the strict inequality into a non-strict inequality? Does this fact have a name that is searchable?
@thomashoffmann8857
@thomashoffmann8857 Год назад
Just an example : 1/n is always > 0 but at the limit it is equal zero. Maybe it's about closed sets: "A closed set contains all its limit points" As [0, infinity) is closed on the left boundary, it must contain all limit points there.
@stewartzayat7526
@stewartzayat7526 Год назад
I don't know if it has a name, but it's a well known property of limits that is proved in a standard calculus course.
@MH-sf6jz
@MH-sf6jz Год назад
Closed sets have the property that if a sequence is in a closed set, and it converges, then the limit of the sequence is also in the closed set. Notice that 1/n is in the closed set [0,1], since the sequence converges, and [0,1] is closed, so the limit is also in the closed set. This property can be easily shown with proof by contradiction.
@TheEternalVortex42
@TheEternalVortex42 Год назад
It's just an application of the "squeeze theorem".
@Hyakurin_
@Hyakurin_ Год назад
If x_n>a for all n (or at least definitely) and x_n converges to x, we can't have x0 in the definition and get a-x>x_n-x for n sufficiently large. This gives a0=a but 1/n->x=0=a, so in general we have to consider the non strict inequality. In fact this follows from the fact that [a,+infty[ is closed in euclidean topology.
@andrewfischer-garbutt2867
@andrewfischer-garbutt2867 Год назад
Could you also solve this problem by first showing that f must be differentiable and using this fact to take the derivative of both sides of the equation?
@lock_ray
@lock_ray Год назад
I think it's interesting to consider the similar problem f(x) + f^(-1)(x) = x. It's easy to see that over R there are no solutions: Because f is increasing and invertible (EDIT: with an inverse defined everywhere on R) it must be continuous, so f(x) can only switch between being x at a fixed point. f cannot have any fixed points other than 0. Suppose wlog that f(x) > x for x > 0 (otherwise we could just switch its role with the inverse). But then f(x)>f(0)≥0 for x > 0, so the inverse g must satisfy g(y)>g(f(0))≥0 for y > f(0). So taking x = y > f(0) we end up with f(x) > x and g(x) > 0 so f(x)+g(x) > x. There are however some solutions if we allow f to be a partial function. For example f: [-a,a/2] -> [-a/2, a], f(x) = 1/2(x + √(3a²-2x²)) is a solution for those intervals.
@Noct1um
@Noct1um Год назад
Well, if f:R -> R and f is strictly increasing then f is also invertible and does NOT has to be continuoues. Short example: f(x)=x, for -x>0 and f(x)=e^x, for x>0 or x=0.
@lock_ray
@lock_ray Год назад
@@Noct1um yeah it's invertible, but its inverse is not defined on [0,1), I should have made that clear. We need the inverse of f to be defined everywhere on R in order for the functional equation to make sense on all of R.
@whonyx6680
@whonyx6680 Год назад
for the generalized problem with ax, assuming the solution is of the form mx+b, we quickly find that if b is non zero, then m must be 1 and its only a solution for the case with a = 2. For b = 0, we get a quadratic equation m^2 -a*m + 1 = 0. From the solution we get that a >= 2 so that a solution exists with m being a positive real number.
@swenji9113
@swenji9113 Год назад
True but in general the hard part for this type of problems is to prove that solutions must be of that form
@JohnSmith-mz7dh
@JohnSmith-mz7dh 6 месяцев назад
To get a solution very quickly, we just differentiate on both sides. We get f’+1/f’=2 (the derivative of the inverse is one over the derivative of f. Just solve for f’ by solving the quadratic equation x^2-2x+1=0. f’ is equal to 1. f is therefore x+C, where C is any real number. C is any number, since f^-1=x-C, and f+f^-1 cancel each other out. Now, we just have to show that this is the only solution to this functional equation, which means f is differentiable.
@spiderjerusalem4009
@spiderjerusalem4009 3 месяца назад
instead of induction, letting aₙ=f iterated n times aₙ₊₁-2aₙ+aₙ₋₁=0 aₙ₊₁-aₙ=aₙ-aₙ₋₁ i.e. aₙ is an arithmetic sequence aₙ-aₙ₋₁=Δa₀ aₙ-a₀=nΔa₀ fₙ(x)=n(f(x)-x)+x
@MikeyXY
@MikeyXY Год назад
f(f(x))=2f(x)-x We can find the characteristic equation of the recurrence relation (a_n+2)=2(a_n+1)-(a_n) with (a_0)=x and (a_1)=f(x) which gives the exact solution. Am I correct?
@garrettthompson4000
@garrettthompson4000 Год назад
Didn't you make a video on this problem about a year ago?
@General12th
@General12th Год назад
Hi Dr. Penn!
@nothayley
@nothayley Год назад
4:05 quick maffs
@ffggddss
@ffggddss Год назад
Just a little poking around reveals what is probably only a part of the answer: f(x) = x + a, where a is any constant. Then f⁻¹(x) = x - a, and f(x) + f⁻¹(x) = 2x + a - a = 2x Multiplying by a constant doesn't work. [f(x) = ax; f⁻¹(x) = x/a] Let's see what else can work . . . Fred Son of a gun! I hit it on the nose without all those intermediate steps! Of course, what I didn't achieve was a proof that my solution was the entire solution. Thanks, Prof.!
@IanXMiller
@IanXMiller Год назад
For the homework question f(x)+f⁻(x)=ax the solution is f(x)=½(a±✓(a²-4))x
@catherinebernard3282
@catherinebernard3282 Год назад
4:05 Quick Maths
@petebaratta6207
@petebaratta6207 Год назад
The difference of cubes directly translates to a hexagonal numbers: Consider the set of lattice points in the cube of size (n+1) NOT in the cube of size n. Viewed from the line x=y=z, we see one point in the center (n+1, n+1, n+1) with six edges of length (n+1) around the edge. This flattened image is in fact a hexagonal number. Not much of a proof but it will give a good intuition on why they match up. (If you can visualize it)
@snared_
@snared_ 9 месяцев назад
there was no difference of cubes in this video, what are you even on about?
@Szynkaa
@Szynkaa Год назад
i did myself the part with induction, but i didn't have idea how to move forward with this so i kinda gave up on that and tried some other obscure way to prove only possible solution is in form f(x)=x+c. First i proved strictly increasing bijection from R->R must be continuous, then i proved that for infinitely many sequences x_n f(x_n)=x_n+c but i had some troubles proving that constant "c" is same for every sequence and some other 'technical' problems so eventualy i gave up with whole problem and skipped to your video
@orenfivel6247
@orenfivel6247 Год назад
we see this problem before in this channel but with different approach: "a FUNctional equation..."
@orenfivel6247
@orenfivel6247 Год назад
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yiwIYs4spjQ.html
@72hf83
@72hf83 Год назад
f(x)+f^-1(x)=2x y=f(x)と置き、両辺を微分する。 dy/dx+dx/dy=2 左辺を通分して整理する。 dx^2+dy^2=2dxdy 2dxdyを移項して因数分解する。 (dx-dy)^2=0 dx=dy 両辺にい∫をつけて左右入れ替える。 ∫dy=∫dx y=x+C [終]
@chaebae-il6qe
@chaebae-il6qe 5 месяцев назад
I really don't like the negative power notation for inverse functions. Isn't there a less confusing notation?
@michelesetnikar8863
@michelesetnikar8863 Год назад
Shouldn't the induction hypothesis made for "some k>=2" to avoid the case f0 that is not defined.
@a-manthegeneral
@a-manthegeneral Год назад
My first thought was that since the inverse of a function is basically mirrored along x = y, x+y = c and x - y = c could be f(x) and f-1(x)
@afalco54
@afalco54 Год назад
The same result can be obtained considering the curves of a function and its inverse are each other's mirrors to the y=x line.
@JosBergervoet
@JosBergervoet Год назад
The generalized solution is found by scaling: g(x) = a^-1 * f(a x)
@rgqwerty63
@rgqwerty63 Год назад
Yes you got 99% the right idea, just remember the initial problem had a factor of 2 on the RHS so the substitution that reduces the 2nd problem to the initial one exactly is g(x) = 2/a * f(ax/2)
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr Год назад
@@rgqwerty63 I disagree. Your scaled function g(x) satisfies the same functional equation (with the same a) as f(x) does. It doesn't reduce to the initial problem.
@alonmaayan466
@alonmaayan466 8 месяцев назад
4:05 Quick math
@_legoved_
@_legoved_ 4 месяца назад
but we can simply take the derivative, so: f'(x)+1/f'(x) equal to 2 => (f'(x)-1)²=2=>f'(x)=1, then y=x+C is immediately the answer? is it the wrong way?
@_legoved_
@_legoved_ 4 месяца назад
upd: (f'(x)-1)²=0, missed
@darla8786
@darla8786 Год назад
Watched this video but didn't understand the following: -why does continuously substituting x for f(x) yield ALL solutions to the functional equation he defined - at 15:38 why does going from the inequality less than 0 imply that the two parts are equal?
@user-dl8lx4jp1y
@user-dl8lx4jp1y Год назад
Find all strictly increasing functions, such that f(f(x))+f(x)=2x-3.How do I do this? Can anyone help to demonstrate that f(x)=x+constant?
@shridharsharma9958
@shridharsharma9958 Год назад
Sir, I had a doubt that how can we assume x=f(y) for some y and rename it as x. What if x is not the range of f. Like for ex. for f(x)=e^x then it can never be -1 for real x. Please resolve my query
@AlcyonEldara
@AlcyonEldara 11 месяцев назад
The equation is true for all x, so it is also true for f(x). You are taking it backward: he doesn't pick x then find y, he picks x then apply the equation to f(x).
@silvanomattioli9720
@silvanomattioli9720 Год назад
May be easy by differenziation for dx: f(x)+f*(x)=2x (the inverse function has the same tangent in x but inverse sign) dy/dx+dx/dy=2dx dy^2+dx^2=2*dx*dy dy^2+dx^2-2*dx*dy=0 (dy-dx)^2=0 dy=dx so y=x+c
@sdchy5042
@sdchy5042 Год назад
we don't know if f(x) is differentiable or not, but yeah i came up with this solution too
@ARVash
@ARVash Год назад
Is it the identity function
@alexrozenbom3430
@alexrozenbom3430 Год назад
ok, my brain is fried. I could not follow.
@douglasfeather3745
@douglasfeather3745 Год назад
Is the "strictly increasing" condition really necessary? If you assume f is linear then f(x) = x + a is the only solution with or without the increasing condition.
@AlcyonEldara
@AlcyonEldara 11 месяцев назад
f(x) = x + a isn't a linear function. And yes, the condition is necessary: f(x) = x for x in Q, f(x) = x+1 for x in R\Q would work.
@j.d.kurtzman7333
@j.d.kurtzman7333 Год назад
4:04 2+2 is 4, minus 1 that's 3 (QUICK MAFS)
@Anmol_Sinha
@Anmol_Sinha Год назад
Hi, I have a doubt. For the question, As f(x) gives real, I put x=0 and assumed f(x) must be a polynomial. I got f(x) = 2x+c, And then I substituted into f(x)+f-¹(x)=2x and got c = (-x) That gave me f(x)=x instead of f(x)=x+a What went wrong?
@danielsandoval9478
@danielsandoval9478 Год назад
you got a solution where a=0
@paulfage6901
@paulfage6901 Год назад
A very elegant solution to the problem. If you remove the requirement that the solution is strictly increasing then there are other solutions. A simple example is f(x) = x+1 if x is an integer, otherwise f(x)=x. However, this, and similar solutions are not continuous. If the requirement is that the solution is continuous rather than strictly increasing then is f(x)=x+c the only solution?
@impk100
@impk100 Год назад
04:05 two times two is four, minus one is three. QUICK MATHS !!!
@AlcyonEldara
@AlcyonEldara 11 месяцев назад
From f_2(x) = 2f(x) - x we can get f_2(x) - f(x) = f(x) - x Since this is true for all x in R and n in N, f_n+2(x) - f_n+1(x) = f_n+1(x) - f_n(x) = f(x) - x By using the same argument this is also true for all n in Z. Be k_x = f(x) - x and A_x = {..., f^-1(x), x, f(x), f_2(x), ...} the orbit of x, from the previous equation we have A_x = {x + n . k_x | n in Z}. Pick any x < y, if k_x < k_y then be g_n = f_n(y) - f_n(x) = y + n . k_y - x - n . k_x = (y-x) + n.(k_y - k_x) g_0 > 0 and lim g_n = -inf There exists n such that g_n < 0 f_n(y) - f_n(x) < 0 f_n(y) < f_n(x) which is impossible since x < y and f san increasing function, so f_n s also an increasing function. Similar argument if k_x > k_y. So for all x, we have f(x) - x is a constant.
@xavierwainwright8799
@xavierwainwright8799 Год назад
You actually used the fact that the function is strictly increasing right at the beginning where you did f^-1(f(x))=x.
@tomctutor
@tomctutor Год назад
We can use calculus to solve this: Let g=f⁻¹(x) the inverse function (i.e. f(g)≡ x) You need to know something about the differential of the inverse function, dg/dx = 1/(f '(g)) so starting from functional f(x) + f⁻¹(x)= 2x then differentiating w.r.t x get f '(x) + df⁻¹(x)/dx = 2 ⇒ f '(x) + dg/dx = 2 ⇒ f '(x) + 1/(f '(g)) = 2 _ eqn(A) the above still holds if we replace x with g since x is just a place holder! f '(g) + df⁻¹(g)/dg = 2 _ eqn(B) but df⁻¹(g)/dg =1/(f '(x)) we can let h=f '(x) so eqn(B) becomes, f '(g) +1/h = 2 or f '(g) = 2 -1/h substitute for f '(g) in eqn(A) get; h + 1/(2 -1/h) = 2 solving for (h -1)² = 0 or f '(x) =1 integrating gives the answer *f(x) = x +const.* [ btw: same solution for the generalized form he suggested h + 1/(a -1/h)= a ⇒ a(h -1)² = 0 so f '(x) =1 ]
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr Год назад
It was not given that the function is differentiable, so assuming that might have potentially lost some solutions.
@tomctutor
@tomctutor Год назад
@@Notthatkindofdr "f(x) increasing on x" so definitely has inverse, and (if continuous) must be differentiable!
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr Год назад
@@tomctutor The function given by f(x)=x (when x0) is increasing and invertible, but not differentiable at 0. You could add in infinitely many non-differentiable points by making f(x) consist of line segments with ever-increasing slopes.
@tomctutor
@tomctutor Год назад
@@Notthatkindofdr Ok like the |x-1| not diff'ble at x=1 but cont's. By my calculus method I have found "a" solution to the functional mentioned. Your are claiming there could be other functions (not diff'ble) that possibly solve the problem! Since I did differentiate my trial solution f(x) then we may assume that it is indeed diff'ble a priori. Maybe I am being pedantic here, but this leads to a solution. Inverse functionals are notoriously difficult to solve in any event since there are not necessarily unique: e.g. f(x) = f⁻¹(x) which is same as f(x) - f⁻¹(x)= 0x is it not, would lead to f(x) = x but we all know that f(x) = 1/x also works, as does f(x) = (1-x)/(1+x) etc. The latter two examples aren't differentiable over ∀ℝ though.
@basilvanderelst128
@basilvanderelst128 Год назад
4:06 2 times 2 is 4, minus 1 is 3 Quick maths
@spogel9981
@spogel9981 Год назад
Great work. I have only one question: Isn't it simpler to apply f on the starting equation instead of setting x=f(x)? But probably I just found my mistake, my suggestion affords f to be linear. Nevertheless I do not know why x=f(x) is allowed.
@ChefSalad
@ChefSalad 5 месяцев назад
You could set x=f(z) and get the same results. The x or the z are just dummy variables. This kind of replacement of x with f(x) is always fine as long as you replace all of the x's with f(x)'s. He tends to reuse variables a lot, which can be a bit confusing at first, but you eventually get used to it. Usually when he reuses a variable like this, he changes the equal sign to an arrow, which helps avoid confusion. I don't know why he didn't do that in this video.
@skylardeslypere9909
@skylardeslypere9909 Год назад
What's with the filter on the video?
@0xTJ
@0xTJ Год назад
That's not a filter. That's a light and what looks like fluorescent chalk.
@skylardeslypere9909
@skylardeslypere9909 Год назад
@@0xTJ I mean, I think a saturation increase is more likely than Michael buying new chalk and a new light
@kingarth0r
@kingarth0r Год назад
My solution was first proving the function must be linear (the coefficients of higher order polynomials won't cancel out because of the strictly increasing condition). Then I just solved for f^-1 using a generic linear polynomial ax +b and then plugged them into the equation and solved for the coefficients and got a=1 and b is arbitrary
@kemkyrk8029
@kemkyrk8029 Год назад
You're actually assuming that the solution is a polynomial (or at least an analytical function) which is pretty hard to prove
@MrRyanroberson1
@MrRyanroberson1 Год назад
It's really such a shame so many of these functional equations are just linear
@wafflebroth3245
@wafflebroth3245 Год назад
You have nice colours, Michael Penn
@zunaidparker
@zunaidparker Год назад
Good Place to Stop hasn't posted yet, so I had to watch the video all the way to the end 🤷🏾‍♂️
@OriginalThisAndThat
@OriginalThisAndThat Год назад
1... 2sec eyeballing
@geovanniportilla7159
@geovanniportilla7159 Год назад
Hi, . ¿can be this a proof?: By definition we have f + f ' = 2x. we know that 2x = x + x and general 2x = ax + (2-a)x for any `a` belong to the reals. Without loss of generality, the potential solution is: f + f ' = ax + (2-a)x with f = ax and f ' = (2-a)x. By definition of an inverse function, we need that: f (f '(x)) = x so a((2-a)x) = x iff (2a-a^2)x = x iff (a^2-2a+1)x = 0. So we need resolve a^2 - 2a + 1 = 0. Factoring this we have that (a-1)^2 = 0 with the solution when a = 1. The solution to the system is f = ax, f ' = (2-a)x, a = 1.
@oliverherskovits7927
@oliverherskovits7927 Год назад
You've assumed without loss of generality f being a linear function. But this is loss of generality as we don't yet know that f must be linear. Hence this proof isn't valid. You need to prove that f must be linear, then your argument works.
@alexsandersouzadasilva1291
@alexsandersouzadasilva1291 Год назад
f(x) + 1/f(x)=2x f(x)=a a^2 - 2xa +1=0 If we make ∆>= 0 x^2 -1 >=0 (x+1)(x-1)>=0; ∆=0, x=1 a=2x/2, a=1, what answers the equality. ∆>0 a=( 2x+(x^2 - 1)^(1/2))/2 Teacher generally I try to solve your problems before watch it and this was my solution, and is to late here in my country and I couldn't verify with details if this solution is correct. If it is wrong could you explain where is my mistake?
@BridgeBum
@BridgeBum Год назад
F inverse isn't the same as 1/f. So step #1. The inverse function relation is if y is f(x), f inverse(y) = x. Classic examples are sin and arcsin or e^x and ln x.
@alexsandersouzadasilva1291
@alexsandersouzadasilva1291 Год назад
@@BridgeBum I knew it, but if you put the values the result is correct. We shouldn't use math as its laws, but make it do whatever we want
@BridgeBum
@BridgeBum Год назад
@@alexsandersouzadasilva1291 Sort of - this is more about math notation than it is math itself. Math notation is just a social construct, so going against the grain there is just going to lead to problems.
@alexsandersouzadasilva1291
@alexsandersouzadasilva1291 Год назад
@@BridgeBum f(x)= x + a, solves the equation proposed very well, but f(x) goes from real to real, but if a permits solutions in complex numbers f(x) would be defined in complex too what is a contradiction with the domain of f(x)
@BridgeBum
@BridgeBum Год назад
@@alexsandersouzadasilva1291 I haven't played with it, but since the reals are a subset of the complex I'm guessing there are still solutions. :)
@ow7398
@ow7398 Год назад
I think I read once that proving with induction is equivalent to proving with strong induction. If this is true, why do we ever use induction? Why do we not always use strong induction?
@fatman3762
@fatman3762 Год назад
Weak Induction is a bit simpler / more elegant. That's probably the only reason
@backyard282
@backyard282 Год назад
We could but we often don't need it, that's the only reason. Often we only need to use the fact that it holds for just n, and not all numbers up to n. But yeah we could absolutely use strong induction every single time.
@self8ting
@self8ting Год назад
You have to use only what you need. I think it's partly in order to be able to reuse parts of proofs to prove results with slightly different initial conditions. If you use strong tools that are not usable for the result you want you may have to find weaker tools to redo the original proof until the point the initial conditions diverge. So it's better to directly do proofs with the weakest arguments possible from the get go. I don't know if it's clear but it's the best I can do ahah
@octokok207
@octokok207 Год назад
To the editor, please place the attention grabbing animations and sounds asking to subscribe at better times in the videos. We are trying to focus on the math, and any distraction during nonobvious steps is annoying and hurts our focus. Please place the sub and channel adverts at times of low congitive load for example when an already derived line is being copied.
@MichaelPennMath
@MichaelPennMath Год назад
Thank you for that feedback. I'll try to adhere to that in future edits. Have a good day! -Stephanie MP Editor
@charleyhoward4594
@charleyhoward4594 Год назад
looks like a bad "red nose" cold ...
@scalex1882
@scalex1882 Год назад
Dear Michael, I really love your videos but often these immediate "guessing" steps or proposals like let's use f(x) instead of x seem completely out of nowhere to me. But to you it seems like a totally normal thing that you've already done 100x in other problems. To me it would be very helpful to maybe take a bit more time and explain what the more general idea behind those substitutions is, why you're allowed to do that and how one can spot them. Thanks!
@timayovyk2036
@timayovyk2036 Год назад
For this one, I imagine that the general idea behind the substitution was to get rid of the f^(-1) and then figure out what can happen from there. He mentioned that it gave a good notation for f_2(x), and had the thought that this could be a repeatable strategy. Although I agree it would be nice to get more explanation behind those aspects a lot of it likely just comes from experience and knowing what types of strategies work in certain scenarios and just trying them, it might not necessarily have a sophisticated reason.
@dnlrn326
@dnlrn326 Год назад
I think that the proof is not totally correct and you need to prove before that f is a surjection before doing some substitutions.
@samueljele
@samueljele Год назад
-its a strictly increasing function from R->R, so it is bijective- (if it weren't surjective, it wouldn't have an inverse).
@schweinmachtbree1013
@schweinmachtbree1013 Год назад
@@samueljele exp: *R* → *R* is strictly increasing but not bijective - it does have an inverse, just not one from *R* to *R*
@rgqwerty63
@rgqwerty63 Год назад
The formulation of the question has f inversed hence we already know were only looking for bijections. I dont think Michael missed anything here
@samueljele
@samueljele Год назад
@@schweinmachtbree1013 yes sorry, I mixed things up. That was stupid. But the thing with the inverse still holds.
@lyrimetacurl0
@lyrimetacurl0 Год назад
Just came from seeing the thumbnail to say "x=1" ok bye
@robertapsimon3171
@robertapsimon3171 Год назад
The solution needs to be of the form f(x) = ax + b, so we would have (a+1/a)x + (1-1/a)b = cx in general, but this means (1-1/a) = 0 which means a=1, which means that the only possible value of c is (a+1/a)=(1+1/1)=2… and that’s a good place to stop!
@bjornfeuerbacher5514
@bjornfeuerbacher5514 Год назад
"The solution needs to be of the form f(x) = ax + b" Why?
@backyard282
@backyard282 Год назад
f(x)=ax+b doesn't even satisfy the original equation.. unless a=1 of course, which is the solution in the video
@user-hf6zn6mu9f
@user-hf6zn6mu9f Год назад
it is probably equal to zero. am I right?
@cphVlwYa
@cphVlwYa Год назад
Take derivative of both sides: f'(x) + 1/f'(x) = 2 Multiply by f'(x) and rearrange f'(x)^2 -2 f'(x) + 1 = 0 Solve quadratic for f' f'(x) = 1 Integrate f(x) = x + c
@SzanyiAtti
@SzanyiAtti Год назад
How do you prove that f is differentiable?
@mrphlip
@mrphlip Год назад
The derivative of f¯¹(x) is not 1/f'(x). It is 1/f'(f¯¹(x)).
@abelferquiza1627
@abelferquiza1627 Год назад
i did exactly the same!
@mantisbog
@mantisbog Год назад
f(x)=1.
@BrianGriffin83
@BrianGriffin83 Год назад
Definitely not invertible
@void7366
@void7366 Год назад
Here first
@ngc-fo5te
@ngc-fo5te Год назад
Nope.
@fhffhff
@fhffhff Год назад
x+c+x-c=2x✓ cx^n+(x/c)^(1/n)=2x=>x=1 cx+x/c=2x c²+1=2c c=1 y=x y=x+c см.выше. ч.т.д.
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