This is a long-form zoom conversation with Naomi Seidman, host of the wonderful "Heretic in the House" podcast. You can find the podcast here: www.hartman.org.il/program/he...
Normally I can't take watching myself on video, but I had such a good time with Frieda, and felt so comfortable talking with her, that somehow it was bearable to watch a little bit again. I love you, Frieda, and am so glad we met, and that so many other people have discovered your big heart and brilliant mind and unique, respectful, and complicated take on the Hasidic community of Williamsburg.
I agree that the smartest people leave as you said. I still pray daily but I now see religious communities as social constructs implemented for people who are not able to think or seek God independently.
I'm a liberal, secular, consevative, non-observant, but deeplyreligious physician and I am impressed by you and you enlightedning determination to bring people together to understand and accept divisions. Thank you
Frida, I’m not Jewish myself though about 1/3 of my family is. I’m from Brooklyn Bay Ridge but moved to Florida 20 years ago. I’m binge watching your videos when I have a deadline to meet😂 I can’t stop. You’re so thoughtful and lovely and respectful to both the religious and secular stance. Wishing you well and sending so many thanks for your work even though its keeping me from mine. 😂
At 1:20:58 Dr. Seidman says "maybe you and me together" and I could not agree more. A podcast from the two of you would be a joy to listen to and a public service in the form of compassionate, loving, respectful dialogue about complicated subjects like this that are so often denied the nuance they deserve. Thank you both for sharing this conversation with us.
I was raised with pentecostal belief, my family left the church, ran into a pentecostal woman in airport and had the most wonderful talk with her, though we left the family of pentecostal talking with her was so natural, its a part of your soul, and thats good.
I love this convo, because I feel like I’ve been able to drop into a very personal and intimate moment in which I would never otherwise have been able to partake. You have to be two of the kindest souls on Earth.
You have opened a door of information to me, as a Christian who had always wondered about the different sects of Judaism. Thank you so much for sharing this portion of society. I’m always wanting to learn about other beliefs. ❤️🙏🏻🇺🇸🇮🇱❤️🙏🏻
Frieda I agree with Naomi that you’re not fully appreciated by most viewers. She’s also right that there’s something very big about the lens/perspective that you share. Thank you!! Very much enjoyed meeting Naomi - the podcast was GREAT! Highly recommend to any Frieda devotees who haven’t listened yet!!
Freida, you are correct. We've heard the horror stories regarding leaving. That is why I'm more drawn to your stories. Your stories surprised me. People can have a relationship with their families. I think going home when they do not ask about your life, they're almost afraid it might be contagious. That you remain respectful of your families feelings is directly related to the good you got from that community. When we enter another's home, even our families, you show respect for their rules and way of life. Thank you for these stories. I am learning so much about another's religious beliefs.
This conversation could serve as a way forward for so many communities. You are both true visionaries and leaders. I see your courage in the story telling and grappling with “ human” condition.
I am listening to Naomi’s podcast. Still have 2 to finish. I’m interested in faith communities and how they work or don’t. My personal experience as a life long Christian growing up in ‘church’ was always a struggle. What resonated most for me leaving a faith community, I was told I had lost faith or religiosity. Or became a heretic. Well I have to say that ‘leaving’ has strengthened my Faith Walk. Blessings
I had a visit from two young men, (you know: white shirts, ties, “special” book in hand.), a couple years ago. I don’t usually engage these folks because one should be very extremely well versed in The True Word of God & I don’t feel I am enough--there’s a reason they travel in twos…. Long story short he said, “You’re religious right?” When I replied “no, I’m not religious.” He was quite shocked. “But you wear a cross!!!” It was a bit fun to see something click when I said, “the pharisees were religious.” That is the trouble with some churches, they have a pharisee spirit.
Sono andato ad ascoltare il podcast. Mi è piaciuto molto grazie per averne parlato. Questo mi ha dato modo di pensare che in un modo o nell'altro, chi più chi meno, ma alla fine tutti siamo degli OTD nella vita ❤️
So interesting. I’ve benefitted from taking a tour with Frieda on a trip to NYC. Our religious upbringing could not be more different but this Protestant Nova Scotian totally understand her “softness” for her former community. She was and continues to show that respect .
To me it’s a metaphor to all our lives and I am so fascinated by both of your stories as I continue to follow Freida and her videos. There is some thing about any of us and our family upbringing that is it’s own enclave and changes when we go out into the world as adults. I particularly like learning about the community actually even though I am a non-Jewish person I am fascinated by the Yiddish language, the traditions, the sensibility so thank you for sharing those things with us so that I can do more research on my own.
Dear Ms. Vizel and Ms. Seidman, You have a ton of thoughts and sentences, the completion of which would fill volumes. Your mother's love when dealing with your aunt's smr that she did not know that "she - you" would be there, was just great. Inter racial families deal with this all the time. In greeting, a nephew would kiss an aunt and then she would immediately take a tissue and wipe the place of the kiss because she did not want to be kissed by a "n" word person. Of course Hasidic men and women don't even touch much less kiss! You both are just wonderful. I wish you happiness on whatever level Hashem has you on. I had no idea what I was going to write. I knew I wanted to say, "Thank you."
Naomi is correct. What you're doing is opening up a wonderful door to fascinating cultures. I think it will only help more than it could ever hinder the Jewish communities as a whole. What really shines through are the respectful moral people who have a sense of purpose. The sense of community that has all but disappeared today. I've commented maybe too much. I just want you to know that what you're doing is very meaningful.
An interesting point is that a good of Naomi's Orthodox relatives have doctoral degrees in various professions and are highly educated in both Judaic and various academic fields.
Beautiful! I am born and raised a Catholic. You both are an inspiration. Very insightful and wish you positive thoughts on your journey. It is hard to be different - persevere during the challenging. Keep moving forward..
I loved listening to you both! I had to click again to press the thumbs up because I often forget to do that. Thank you for this really interesting video 🌻
Thanks, it was such a pleasure listening to these eloquent and warm ladies. I gleaned a lot of wisdom just by listening. A lot of relatable stuff here (also coming from a religious / legalistic background)
I have no clue of you lives in and out but I love this. You are speaking Truth so others know that when the lies are said they can say no that’s untrue. I think life is hard no matter what place you are in or who you are. I agree what is sayin about you Frieda what you are doing is Special and it opens our eyes to that world.
This conversation was so rich and wonderful. I recently read Moshe Kasher's "Kasher in the Rye". You and Naomi talking about living in 2 worlds when visiting family made me reflect on Moshe's experience of summering with his dad in Satmar Brooklyn while living most of the year in California. How wild must that be for a child? Wonder if he or his Rabbi brother would ever agree to talk to you... Anyway. Love your channel!
I knew his brother David for a while--he lived in Berkeley and ran a cool organization that was trying to set up study groups around the Bay Area. I don't know what happened to him, I haven't seen him in years. Thanks for the tip--I'll look up Moshe's work!
Absolutely adore this video. Just stumbled upon your RU-vid Channel and am really enjoying it so far. Love your approach: exercising empathy, respect and understanding and sharing this very interesting secular way of life. I find your videos really thought-provoking. I'm not jewish and can't imagine living in an orthodox lifestyle, but so appreciate you shining a spot light on this lifestyle for others, (like me) to understand and provide a safe space to ask questions. I have so much love and appreciation for the Orthodox community. So fascinating!
That was so interesting I really enjoyed learning all about the jewish culture . You are all wonderful women who you interview .all all wonderful. Thankyou so much Frieda .
As if I have went to school again,learning something new and thinking something in pass,knowledge I already have and knowledge which has been false and which I can remove, throw away with the wind. I am thankful to hear and listen you. I am all ears..
Not everyone is going to be the same, and there will be winners and losers of any system. We have a problem if either sides starts to deny and shut down the criticism of the other.
You leaving is just like getting a divorce, it happens, your decision, but life goes on. Some people close their heart and can only talk about how horrible it was and others say, it just wasn't for me, but it's no ones fault. Life goes on either happily or unhappily. Not everyone has to scortch the earth to validate their decision.
Another great show. As a fellow “ fringe dweller” who left almost 50 years it’s fascinating to hear these conversations. Omg the airplane going down in Shabbos!!!Yes! Same here. And to this day I still have moments of remorse for leaving
Wonderful and insightful conversation. In the past we would meet secular authors and poets whose medium was mostly Yiddish. This treasure trove of literature is not available to us. What we do have in our generation is the angry young men of the vinegar n' vitriol blogs that I find unpalatable after a while (except for Luke Ford). I can relate to this conversation by recollections of my father's alienation from Zaydee's faith, how the events of 1939-45 seared everyone's lives and how I saw both sides of the Dad and Zaydee gulf by rediscovering faith as a "BT" in Brooklyn. ( I remember Naomi teaching me these nuanced acronyms in 1979) . Came to a horrible revelation from cryptic comments from dad about our marrano background and the realization that someone from that origin will find trouble being comfortable in their own skin.
As someone raised as a reform Jew these conversations about the really frum people. We are mostly secular but it's an interesting insight for those of us who don't know a lot about our own people
This chasm as Naomi calls it, exists really mostly among Ashkenazi Jews - Hassidi, Litvish - in the USA. Israel is a vastly more Sefardi culture, both Orthodox and non-Observant. And Sefardim accept: You never stop being part of the family even if you leave observance.
I am a Turkish American Sephardic Jewish woman. For most of my childhood and adolescence I was the only Sephardic person I knew (in the USA). My mom is an American, an atheist, but lived a Jewish life and raised me Jewish as a condition of her marriage to my father. My Turkish family welcomed us with open arms.
I am a Catholic Christian and I have always been interested in the Tanakh and the all of the stories therein. Jesus was a Jew and so to me the Jewish people and their relationship with G_d the Father has always been of special importance and resonance to me. I have never understood Anti-Semitism and in general any form of bigotry. Young children do not judge others by the colour of their skin, by their religious affiliation (or non-affiliation,) nor do they judge others by more sophisticated ideas such as philosophical or political ideology. They simply notice and value kindness, caring and empathy from others until they are told otherwise. Children are taught by their elders to value or disavow others based upon their own family or cultural norms and expectations. What we teach our children about "others," those different from ourselves, is crucially important to peace, security and harmony in the world. Thank you Naomi and Frieda for the insights that you have shared with me through this particular podcast and especially through Naomi's enlightening and positive podcast, "A Heretic in the House." Learning about the divergent perspectives of those who stay and those who leave is not only fair to share but is essential for curious "outsiders" (like myself, ) to hopefully grasp and empathize with both parties. Heroes and villans? Patriots or Traitors? That is all too simplistic, divisive and dehumanizing!
I was very fascinated by the point in the conversation about those who take "mini vacations to cope". Stepping outside the rules. That could be a podcast topic as well.
@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn Thank you so much for sharing! I appreciate it a lot Honestly, I feel that it's a privilege to find the healing we need in order to feel safe enough to be able to be open and real. It wasn't always like this for me (it took me 13 years to get here ;) )
As a chasidish woman in BP I always felt that the way we treat those who left the fold directly mirrors the way they treat us. Meaning if someone leaves and all they do is bash us and go on TV saying all kinds of lies maybe with some truths mixed in but mostly twisted stuff making us look really bad, then no, we won't be too welcoming to them, and why should we? So they can rip us again and again? On the other hand, people who left and are simply living their life and not just harping on us and our flaws, they will always be welcome and embraced.
That's fair. But I also think that while people leave, let's say they go through a divorce, even if they try not to be negative at all, they can become a walking target in several ways. Wouldn't you agree? From gossip, to custody battles, and so on.
@Frieda Vizel - Brooklyn Tour Guide I somewhat agree that a woman going through a custody battle will have a harder time due to the rest of the family wanting to 'save the children' however, the general public will not be unwelcoming when they see them around. That's just my opinion of course.
With respect I would like to disagree with your comment.I live in a frum community,I would say an equal mixture of chassidim and litvaks,and if we were to be honest I would say we are actually not at all welcoming or kind to individuals who choose to leave our way of life! Honestly? A lot of us slander them,call them 'nebech' patronisingly,ostracise them and generally are very unkind and don't even try to understand their hurt. One thing I find interesting is that boys/men can leave but can come back when they've finished their 'business'-whatever that is-but women are So unforgiving!!
You both are amazing and resilient. Inspirational to a very personal level and healing process. 😊Frida, resently i chased a group of tourists hoping to see. To my disappointment they didnt have a guide.
I think conversations like this has to happen. I might be naive but in order for this crazy world to have any sense of tolerance of individuals we need to know about each other and to have less fear of the unknown. So much pain and hate exists because we know so little of people that are different from us. These videos educate us. I very much enjoyed the video I watched last evening on the Amish and Mennonite with the professor you conversed with. Keep these educational videos out there. Now I want to listen to your guests 4 part podcast. Thank you.
I Loved this video. I think you are both very honest with your feelings but equally respectful of the chasm of difference between your “OTD” life and the ones you were born to. I am now subscribed to both of you. Besides tours, I think a meal w you both would be the best😊
Fantastic video - very personal and thank you for sharing with us. Frieda you should have Naomi and Pearl on - that would be wonderful I think. I would love it! Naomi is so very interesting, as is Pearl! Love you guys!! 🥰🥰🥰
Awwww, Naomi it makes me so sad to hear your story - God Bless your dear mother!!! It's such a shame that your family would shun you - you are still blood in my mind!!! You are just such a fantastic and interesting person, Naomi and I am so happy that Frieda had you on her RU-vid program - I just found her a few weeks ago and just love her channel. Yevarkhekh Elohim .
"Why did you leave" is at the very heart of this topic. The answer is NOT self-evident. It's completely natural to wonder about what it is precisely that motivates each "OTD" person to make such a decision. I would welcome a series of videos where individuals who have left the Orthodox community are asked to tell their stories in detail. It's a fascinating topic, after all!
I don't want to get too sidetracked on the OTD issue, which has been covered so much, but hopefully I can do more justice to the question down the line.
Wilst the two of you were talking about the remarkable (assumed) schism that seems to show up around 'being in' when it comes to heimisch (or heimlich) and even communicating in Jiddisch, the word unheimisch kept singing around in my mind. In Dutch language this German word is still quite generally used to express the sense one has about a certain place, atmosphere or situation. (In modern German it is now rather called unheimlich) Like when someone leaves the Heimische bubble the community often starts to feel somewhat unheimisch with them. It might be worth it to look up the full bandwidth of meanings of the word unheimisch as it seems so fit in a way. Anyhow, heimisch or not, through the space of these conversations you ladies made the world a good bit less unheimisch ❤ which is wonderful and very welcome.
Very interesting and much respect as you have to weigh so much when you chose to leave and become at least to a community who you where once in a "disappointment" because you chose a life that gives you freedom. In their eyes your fallen but I applaud those that stand up for what's right in their hearts. Your not fallen, or a disappointment or corrupted, your being true to what you want in your life, in your own narrative with decisions that you shape. To own your own life is very hard for many, not matter what religion you are.
It's not just modern Orthodox communities that have the expensive requirements. In Boston, if you want to live a frum lifestyle, you have to live in extremely expensive areas (Boston proper, Cambridge, Newton, Chestnut Hill) where housing prices are hiked up for relatively much smaller spaces than you can find a little further out. Like $3-4k per month for a little studio apartment.
I listened to the podcast Heretic in the House in full. Naomi is an insightful speaker, weaving a thought filled, compelling tale throughout each episode. Please interview Naomi again. She is brilliant, a shining light. Thank you for posting this interview.
Naomi, you would look so classy with a hair cut. Take off a couple of three inches. It will look so good and make god first 😅moreeeion. Especially with your great bone structure.❤❤❤❤❤
Enjoyed your discussion. I am from Iowa, moved to California with my family, and many react strangely if I tell them I am a native Iowan. 🤨Actually, some in my county were Amish, many were Jewish, and even in our small city we had a large museum, libraries, a university and the symphony.
I just finished listening to the podcast. An awakening experience! I feel people want to hear the story of those who have left their community because so very many people feel they are living in a “stuck” life! So many feel trapped and so to speak live making no changes pretending everything is fine. I feel they want to hear your story in an attempt to better understand why they stay in their situations and are in awe of your ability to see that you have options in your life.
I loved the podcast! Informative and also gave insight as to how people really don’t understand how a simple word like “brave” can actually when meant as a compliment has a totally different meaning to the person it was intended!
@@cdewey5115 I think maybe you'll enjoy this essay I wrote about the OTD genre, on why the stories often bother me. I do get why brave would mean such a sweet, warm thing but be received quite differently when you feel put in a box! friedavizel.com/2019/12/11/becoming-eve-book-review/
Thanks so much for this link! You have a great gift of being very insightful! I would like to read a memoir from someone who was raised Hasidic and had a childhood they liked, appreciate and enjoyed. Someone who still loves their family but for reasons known to them, felt they couldn’t stay. Someone who can write to the positive aspects of the life for others - in other words - not a blame complain book. I feel people would have a better understanding of cultural differences and acceptance of others if these stories were shared.
Actually, I listen/watch/read, not because I feel trapped but because I am truly trying to understand what makes some people leave what is for me such a meaningful way of life. I will watch videos like Frida's because she is so refined and "fair and balanced". I will stay away from the media protrayals or the very obviously angry and rabid authors because I really and truly cannot identify with them and cannot feel that they can convey unbiased truth from the space they are in. Naomi is obviously a very smart woman (full disclosure: I knew that before this video; I happen to have known her and her sister and parents growing up....all smart, btw) but she really disappointed me by saying that she was disgusted by those to the right of where she was when she was young. That is so lacking in providing others the full respect they deserve. I realize that she felt that way when she was younger, but I still do detect a certain bit of attitude towards certain others.
As usual, your video has prompted me to write several comments. First off, I was surprised to see Naomi's familiar face (from when I was growing up) and my comments are directed to some of what she shared. 1. Regarding your remarks about being less critical of the community you left or looking more kindly upon it than had you remained within that community: I think the reason for that is that we naturally tend to see the faults and flaws in things we have; they are burrs that irritate us. It is only once we leave and no longer have to deal with them that we can now see the "other side" of the picture. We can see more clearly all the value and beauty that we may have taken for granted, especially when we are now living a different lifestyle and are surely seeing the faults and flaws in the new lifestyle and that this new community (if there really is one in the same sense of the word) is missing some of the value and beauty that existed in that world we left. . 2. Regarding having some people look at you as an outsider, in a certain way you have chosen to be an outsider, meaning you do not value the same things that they do and they don't know how far that "leaving" extends. There *are* instances where people leave a life they didn't like and really don't consider themselves as insiders and don't even want to be and may, in fact, have even blocked as much of it out as they possibly could. Therefore, the safest bet is to speak to you as though you *are* totally an outsider, since they see that as the choice you want. In fact, when you think about it, it is strange to even say you aren't really an outsider. Isn't that what you've done? Chosen to go outside? 3. Nosiness *is* a form of love, actually. You have to feel a closeness to someone to care what they are doing and why. 4. Continuity of the Jewish people and the authenticity of the Torah *is* a part of our connection to G-d. This "mesorah" is an obligation on the Jewish person....and who does that obligation come from if not from G-d?
This is fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing. Just learned about Heretic in the House. Listening to that now. I cannot wait to listen to both back-to-back.
@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn Frieda, just a small token of my appreciation. I'm not even Jewish, but I have so enjoyed having my eyes opened about Hasidism and more by your channel. It's your approach and manner, most of all, that makes it so engrossing for me. Thank you! ❤💮
I left the Catholic Church of my youth when I was 20. I can so relate to the fact that physically you cannot go back. My mind, body and soul will not allow me. You articulated that so well I never fit in and I never will. And I’m OK with that now.
Some people are so mean. Ignore the haters. I love this podcast. When I lived in Las Vegas (left 4 years ago), there were several members of Community Kollel living in our small subdivision. I felt for everyone with their warm clothes living where temperatures are over 100°. The families were so nice and the children so respectful. My fondest memories were of the men and young boys walking to the center on Friday evening, some of the men with their large fur hats. The best view was seeing them from the back -- old men, fathers, young sons. One evening someone asked if I would turn out the lights for them at their home a few doors away. I did. When I told my mother about it, she said that her father used to do this in the neighborhood he was living in on the west side of NYC in the 30s. I was honored. When we sold our home in LV, it was to to someone in the Kollel. Thank you both for sharing your stories and your community. What people that comment negatively need to remember is that it is YOUR story, not theirs. We all have our stories. Please keep sharing. You matter and you are more than enough❤❤
Just finished Hidden heretics and I think it was excellent. It's a good start of the conversation on this sensitive subject. You brought up so many good points that people don't really consider when they think about people who are it'd. I don't think that you had to have any answers but more points to contemplate. I think the saddest story is about Elsa. I remember his thoughtful posts on Facebook. They were very inspiring. I didn't know his story which I think is quite the point. I also agree that though there are those who suffered trauma that are OTD many others go off the derech because frumkeit is just not for them. It's hard to cover all of the bases in a podcast series but I think you did a good job.
You mean Izzy, not Else, right? Follow Izzy's story on twitter. Tragically, his mother recently died in a car accident just as the family was inching towards reunification. He wrote about it on a blog post.
Loved this interview. Fascinating…two highly educated, caring women! Can’t wait to listen to her podcasts. Frieda…your book is out of print, according to Amazon, and I wanted to purchase a copy. Will you print more now that so many of us follow you on U-Tube?
I don't have a book :( That was just a school project that I sold through a self publisher for a while. I never actually got to publishing a book although it's been a lifelong dream.
@@FriedaVizelBrooklyn Thought the book was, The New Leaf. I truly enjoy your U-tube posts. As someone raised Roman Catholic, I always felt a pull towards learning more about Judaism. Learning about these ultra conservative sects is even more fascinating since I knew even much less about them. Thank you for opening the window to learning. Keep up the good work you do.
how i wish you ladies would look into being very modern orthodox. it is the combo of your lives before and now...........i love being part of the modern orthodox world.
I am halfway through the hidden heretics series and I think its refreshing. It's a bit more nuanced than some of the other sensational productions on this subject. I appreciate that you brought up the fetishizing of the person who breaks free of the oppressive frumkeit . I also think that that it is very hard to redefine one's connection to Judaism and in a way it must be a surprise to those who leave that they may be leaving the form of Judaism one has always known but wherever you go you are there and Judaism doesn't leave you just because you may need to redefine your relationship with Judaism. It seems that Naomi has been able to do so.
As you all talk about the critique but love for the drum community is something that many folks of color experience. We are protective of our community and we can criticize or critique it but are protective when other try to do criticize/critique it.
Love how Naomi describe not fitting in as an almost "physical thing" while frieda tries explaining how it really should be self evident why she left, yet it should also be evident that leaving as a result isn't and shouldn't be understood as a contradiction to appreciating what it is you've left behind and how
I could listet to both of you all day. But life must go on. There is so much I would like to comment. Maybe I'll sit down and write an Email to Frieda. Actually my big dream is to travel to New York City and book a tour. I'm afraid that I would want to talk to Frieda all day and hold her up. Where can I read your memoir? Keep up your great work! Both of you!! Gut Schabbes from Vienna, Austria 🇦🇹🕊️🕎
I enjoyed listening to this. 😢 The similarities to me leaving a very conservative Christian background is striking. I refuse to talk about it to my family. There is a level of pain that is buried. I am fluent in “Christianese”. I barely admit to myself that I left that religion behind. Thank you so much for sharing. ❤
I really enjoyed your video. In many ways it spoke to me at different levels and directions at the same time. I am 67 from Savannah originally, grew up in the Catholic and Parochial school system and converted to Orthodox Judaism in High School. My Rabbi sent me off to Israel and burn my bridges, and such I did. Served in the IDF as a conscript and reserves until age 45. Married a girl whose family came from Iraq and raised two boys. My journey took me from one side of Israeli society to the other, and all the while my past is joined at the hip with my present. I can say that there isn’t any summation where everything is settled, but rather I am looking from both sides at the other side and analyzing. I cannot give real answers to questions I am still analyzing. So, it was nice to listen to your stories that brought a smile to me.
LOVE THIS also My question to both of you have you found a Jewish community that is reform, reconstructionist or conservative (traditional but liberal)?
What was revelatory to me in Frieda's videos is how cultural/ethnic the Hasidic sense of Judaism is. The whole discussion here about Yiddish and the idea that it is necessarily paired with Judaism (when it's very specific to Ashkenazi experience and the communities they're talking about have their more recent roots in very specific areas of Europe). I was very surprised by how Yiddish is written in Hebrew letters yet women are prevented from actually learning in Hebrew. To me that felt so strongly cultural yet these communities structure these foci as religious. And the fact that Naomi's mother would ask if she's a Christian now when she's actually still Jewish.
"Something is opening." My provisional work has been retail sales, and in that, because I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, I've met several Ultra Orthodox families over the years who became regular customers. In one family the mom shared with me that the ladies she sopped with weren't relatives, but that they wore wigs. At another time she explained that she and her children were all exhausted one day because they had just celebrated Purim. She brought her husband over to meet me one day too. And, a few months ago, she told me that her oldest daughter who was nineteen at most, was married now. And, at the time, pregnant. She paused in giving me those two profound pieces of information. Passover was in a few days and Hannah was coming to visit for the holiday from New Jersey. Her sisters got her on the phone for me so we could chat. I had been thinking about her the week before. That's about the time I found you. I wanted to understand this family's life and appreciate how much they included me with such kindness.
I feel Momma forced Aunty to shift gears mentally and took a stand in Naomi's space, using English. I'm betting it felt shocking to Auntie to hear it spoken that way... essentially, "Be respectful or take a hike for now, Sis. Naomi is here bc she belongs".
