I think this would make a really great movie when superhero movies start to die down, even if that's in like 50 years. It'd be a nice send off for the MCU, just seeing a man from New York go through the entire cinematic universe from his perspective
+Trevor Merritt I love the idea, but I don't know if it'd work as well as Marvels did just because DC's heroes were ageless from the beginning, while Marvel seemed to pass in real time (at least til the 80s)
Trevor Merritt I meant for the first 10 or so years, which is most evident by Peter Parker's aging.DC on the other hand had Batman and Superman as members of the Justice Society and the Justice League, with the Justice Society being old men and women at this point.
LOL, I like how this comic basically boils down to "Hey, the 90's/modern era is inevitable. Just accept it and try to make the best out of it." But then Kingdom Come comes around and says "OK! That's it! Bring our classics before this new generation screws everything up."
It's also a fascinating remark on hero worship. Phil Sheldon learned at the end that his heroes were as fallible as the rest of us. This is probably my favorite marvel book. Good job guys.
No, no, no! At the end he doesn't lose hope in the marvels. At the end he realises that normal people are also important. All his life was centred around marvels. But by talking to Gwen Stacy and seeing her in awe when she's looking at the fantastic atlantean technology he realised that all people are important. All his life he just took photos of marvels. Now as an old man, it was time to take a picture of a normal human.
I think it's a perfect interpretation. This is one of my all time favorite graphic-novles. And I love Alex Ross's interpretation of the Marvel Universe. It's a really cool and realistic interpretation of it. p.d. The picture inside the tpb where Phil is taking a picture of Giant-Man is one of my favorite images ever, counting paintings and photos and everything.
Loved Marvels, it was one of my first books. I recently got all the original issues, gotta love the art. Besides, I'm a sucker for "realistic" type stories.
I remember picking this up at a small town public library before I had really gotten into comics. it was a really good read and it helped me to start getting more into comics. That and Bone.
What a great episode. Marvels is a long-time favorite of mine. Sal, I really like how you explained this one. It allowed Ethan and Ben to end up in different places.
I love all of Busiek's work. This kind of segways into his 98-01 run of the Avengers in which he takes a more Wolfman Titans approach in exploring the characters and their interactions as opposed to fighting grandiose villains
Awesome episode guys. Personally I loved Marvels. I've always been a huge Marvel fanboy so seeing the first forty years continuity presented as a single narrative told from the perspective of and average Joe who lived through it was a lot of fun.
I love the scope and emotion Busiek writes and Ross's artwork is awesome. My favorite is the final chapter, but, still, I would have liked to have seen more of the Hulk.
I have always liked Marvels up to the very end. It reminds me too much of people who think comics aren't a medium worth telling stories in. Great episode as always, guys. Found the channel a couple of weeks ago and I have finally catched up. What would it take to have a back issues on something written by Neil Gaiman, Sal? You know you want to do Sandman ;)
I just want to put Justice by Alex Ross out as a hopeful Back Issues(even though I think you said Ben has already read it) but think it would be an interesting video. Also don't know if I'm alone here but a video touring Sals collection of comics and figures would be a cool video as well.
This was actually the first Marvel comic I bought since at least the 80s. The whole collection was at a local comic store, and I fell in love with Ross' covers (Having been recently back into comics after a long hiatus, I was OBSESSED with his DC work!). I loved that it was set in Marvels Golden Age, as these were the stories I grew up knowing. Absolutely beautiful, and well written. As a DC fanatic, this is prolly my favorite Marvel story!
The statement of Marvels being more human than Kingdom Come sums up my attitude toward the two publishers. While one may be more academically sound (largely thanks to the talent attracted by reputation) the other actually speaks to the heart of the reader
I'm curious if Ben would like it if the ending was different. But you guys nailed it, I always felt like this was a massive commentary on the fickle nature of comic fans. Great vid.
I always thought that Marvels was just cool images of the history of marvel, but now that you talk about the different perspectives it seems so much deeper.
I like Marvels. In fact, I love Marvels. To me, Busiek is showing his love for old Marvel and, in some ways, his contempt for what came afterwards. It's a lot like Astro City, except set in the Marvel universe. Great book, and great episode guys!
It is 6 years later, so noone is reading comments section, but to respond to Sal s question where i land on, i definitely land on loving it. And the reason is two folds. It is definitely a meta commentary on fans and their fickle nature, and it has never been so prounounced as it is in year 2023... But it's not just about that. It captures the heart of Marvel. Unlike DC, which has these God like heroes, Marvel is more about people who are not gods, but through whatever they have will rise to the need of the hour and will save an old lady, a city or the world... And they are all fallible, just like we are. And when they fall, they WILL come back up again, u just need to wait for it. And if u give up ur faith in Marvel's, years later, someone u thought was normal, will come and restore ur faith in them... Also, this is very much a beginning for a narrative like this for Marvel and DC. it's a bit less refined because this is where we begin. Just like Miracleman reads a bit rusty now, this is where superhero reconstruction is finding it's legs!
Thanks for the great video. My old roommate had this book a few years ago and I really enjoyed it. It was a nice look at a window of the marvel timeline.
Great episode as always, you guys should do a back issues on Scott Snyder's Batman: The Black Mirror, one of the creepiest Batman stories I've ever read.
Whoooo! Birthday post for me. I haven't even had a chance to watch the episode yet and I already want to say you guys rock! (I'm also fucked up on Sangria.) ....Hey look, it's Ethan. That's awesome.
Awesome episode as always you guys, keep up the great work. I'm heading off to Connecticut Comic Con this weekend so i'll keep my eye out for a copy of Marvels and some other books featured on this show.
I do enjoy Marvels quite a lot, but being a big Kingdom Come fan it's clear Marvels is just a prototype for it to a certain degree and KC is the final product.
You guys are awesome and good luck at the Harvey awards! Also, I checked out the Pull last night after listening to you guys on twitch, and could only make it through like 10 minutes. You guys on the post show were totally right
Really great video, I was excited to watch this when I saw the title. You had some great in depth discussion on the symbolism of this book; makes me think it would make a great episode of ComicLine.
Something I just realised: "Hey Peter how did you get this aerial photo of Spider-Man?" 2002: "Err... I climbed a flagpole." 2020: "I have a drone, like every photographer."
Crimsonknight700 Yes!!! it's so much greatness jam packed in one short graphic novel; it has a powerful message and it really defines who the X-Men are (or were)
I don't know if I should be happy or utterly shocked by the fact that Ethan calls bullshit on Gwen's death being the point where the photographer loses faith in the Marvels. Happy because he knows that one man's failure doesn't invalidate an entire "movement" or shocked that he didn't seem to pick up on the fact that it's /exactly/ how most people would react. Mankind often puts their faith in others but to such a level that ANY type of "failure" shatters that belief to the potential point of twisting it into utter hatred. There's a reason it's a trope and became the driving force behind the events of the first Incredibles movie.
So I actually just finished Marvels and I decided to watch this video just to see what you guys think of it, and I have to say Sal, your explanation of this book is spot on, and I totally get what you mean about not liking Alex Ross' art here, but I have to say after reading this is that I think he was the best possible artist in the industry to make the marvel universe human. But that's just my opinion, bearing in mind that I love this book and I'm causatiously optimistic about how I'll like Kingdom Come
By the way, a while back, Ethan that book I posted on the forums of Magneto being impaled by thousand of metal pipes and saws and you said it looked interesting. It's called "Ruins" (written by Warren Ellis) and is a parody of Marvels. It's a really messed up version where the Hulk becomes loads of tumors and stuff like that. It's only 2 issues but I think it would make a great video.
i think you should do a back issues on another busiek title. his stories always seem to emanate a sort of classic feel that i really enjoy like a classic corvette or something.
Awesome review guys! Really makes me want to check out Marvels. I know you guys aren't huge X-Men fans but do you have any plans to do some of their more iconic storylines from the 80s and 90s? Like Mutant Massacre, X-Tinction Agenda, and Muir Island Saga? Looking forward to the next review.
I think humanity's fear of mutants comes from the fact that mutants are the next step in evolution. Their existence is seen as an existential threat, because if they're the new humans, what will happen to the old, obsolete humans?
No one at all mentioned the real importance of this Timely book (get the reference . .....probably not...lol) is that at the time there were no real comic book movies that showed the heroes as they were depicted in the stories we had read all our lives..... You do mention this book is for the long time reader who aged with the book but it is not only by that perspective but also for that perspective... It's absolutely a love letter whose importance is trapped in the time of when it was created and who for.... Kids today live in a wonderful world where we will soon have seven comic book movies in one year.... Marvel's was written for "me" and it was my first chance for a comic book nerd young adult to see and feel the wonderment of a world with the real heroes of my childhood..... This was the same reading experience for all of my peers, and unfortunately new readers can never get that experience with the level of today's exposure . .....
If Marvels continued into the 90s... "Hey, I'll take a picture of this weird feral man with a durag over his face and jagged bone claws coming out of his hands and no nose. ART."
Having watched a few times...I'm with Ethan. That said I'm also steeped in lore. I really appreciate the view from the other side. In this context I also have more empathy for humans who hate mutants. In truth this is point of view is why something like Civil War had to happen. This all reminds me of the Letters Page discussion of which world would you visit...Phil was just dealing with the realization that he's a red shirt.
Haven't watched the episode yet but I clicked on it with the hope that it'll be a review with some positivity and not a bunch of "this is dumb", "this is stupid", "why did they do this?" comments. I'm sure you love comic books Sal but you also seem incredibly embarrassed by them.
