Hahaha, that's really cool xD . I can't imagine someone having such good memories of the PCJr that they'd resurrect this as a new keyboard! The originals were proverbially awful. This seems like a fairly basic keyboard, but executed in a nice, nostalgic package :) .
Lol, yep. I had a Jr, and while I have very fond memories of it, the keyboard - even the 2nd version - was only functional at best. And I definitely preferred using dad's XT with its Model 80 when I needed to do any actual writing for school. Plus I was always really disappointed that the IR was basically useless, far too finicky to be worth the bother.
I remember as a kid being annoyed dealing with other keyboards having the Insert and Delete keys in different places than my PC Jr keyboard, since the PC Jr was my first machine and what I played all my games on.😆
Yeah, I had a Jr back in the day too... but I preferred doing school work on dad's full-sized XT, in part because the keyboard was so much better. The Jr was mostly for games, although I did do some 'work' (like BASIC stuff) on it.
Whatever FIRST computer we use, is what we kind of learn. The C=64 keyboard a slightly odd, but nowhere near as bad as the PC Jr. Yet it had two cursor keys, requiring the user to press CTRL (or was it shift) to flip the default direction. ie: DOWN and LEFT keys became UP and RIGHT keys. With the improved C=128, they kept the C=64 keyboard layout with the 2 cursor keys but added 4 dedicated cursor keys... But they were are the top, like the FN key on the PC Jr. Hand placement was bad, they never got used. For sure, the PC Jr. keeb was the worst, slightly more so than the Atari 800 keyboard as they put the Return key on the 2nd row! Caps lock on the 5th row wasn't too uncommon back then. Keyboads were all over the place as the various companies put their Computer specific keys where ever they felt like. It's like IBM made the PCjr. Keyboard as bad as possible to make sure nobody would want it - to compete with their $4000~8000 PCs. If the FN key was to the left of the ALT, and the DEL and INS key were moved to where the FN key as shown in the pic, would have made a world of difference. It would have been a fine layout. Then the Page UP / DOWN function would have been good. I've trying out a new compact layout, I think it'll be better than the TKL, but I got a get used to the different key placement.
@@jasonmeister6988 It's not qwertz, it's qwerty with x and z transposed. I suspect it's just the keycaps that are placed incorrectly, given that the rest is pretty standard ANSI stuff.
Same!! I want an og beige case with a lovely beige thicc monitor with modern 4k resolution, but also with some kind of crp overlay that can just be flicked on and used with any program not just what's "compatible".
I've been rocking the kbt re: 68 for a couple months too and its been amazing. Put some Kailh box whites and it sounds Perfect. GOD! I cannot wait for the M0110 AND their IBM Model M keyboard. I'm a mac user and I think that M0110 is going to be my endgame keyboard for me. It checks all the boxes for me: 1. Aesthetic (The M0110 is my favourite keyboard design of all time) 2. Hot swappable (my assumption is that all of their retro redesigns will incorporate the same features [wireless, bluetooth, hotswap, gasket mount, etc]) 3. Gasket Mount 4. RGB (I would assume they will have an RGB variant) 5. Good price point (It's surprising how cheap the KBT Re was considering how premium it looks and feels)
Really glad to see Vortex getting back into the game -- they had a finger on the pulse back when they released the pok3r, and it seems like their new models will have a great place in the enthusiast community -- especially since the TKL Model M-style board looks to have a full aluminum construction AND winkey blockers for the full retro look.
Surprising choice. The PCjr is one of those rare early systems that frequently turns up in complete, great shape, and nobody seems to want them. The keyboards in particular were rightfully maligned. I can't imagine there was a huge group asking for this, but a good option to have out there!
It's a very popular layout... like a 65% hhkb or something. And with the beautiful bezels. Probably a bigger group asking for this than most of the generic looking keyboards released
The PCjr was my first computer. I used it until 1991-92. I think this is really cool to see, but I wouldn’t want to go back to that layout with no function keys, etc.
I think the PC-Jr is one of those oddballs that's interesting to have, not for it's own sake (it was a flop), but because it was the direct predecessor to the popular Tandy 1000 line, and thus deserves a special place in computing history. What makes it difficult to collect is that most accessories for it were proprietary to the PC-Jr unless you could rig up adapters, so it's kind of a package deal.
@@lizardspock4746 Honestly, FN+the number row is easier - you don't need to move your hands as much. This is way smaller keyboards are so popular these days - the idea isn't that you're going without keys but that you're bringing them closer to your fingers by using layers. Ideally you should reach everything without moving your hand/s from the home row position. I think it depends what you are doing. If you're like laid back and just browsing some media - hitting a key every now and then, you probably want physical keys for everything. But if you're like programming with your hands constantly on the keyboard, smaller keyboards make much more sense.
Vortex is a pretty damn good pre built MKB company IME with their products. They kinda focused on regular 60% when they were not too available pre built, but I really like how they have pivoted since then. These IMB tributes are definitely awesome projects!
@@FlyboyHelosim I have been buying Dells since the 1990s, I NEVER had any issues with them as a company. That's RARE for me. The only other company that I never had any issues with is American Express, believe it or not! My biggest thing is "right to repair" and Dell is the opposite of Apple in this regard. If I need a service manual for any Dell box I have it's a click away. Try that with a Mac!
Oh man I love that these retro keyboard inspired kits are being made now and there are switches like the ZealPC Clickiez and the Box switches that can pair perfectly for that super clicky roomy case sound and feel. It is nice as well to have something other than the really rigid dampened boards that most of the mech keyboard community go bananas over, and to have a modern option for some older boards without the RNG of condition/quality. Still holding my breath for a modern 101 ansi layout model F board with capacitive buckling springs though (I know Joe from modelFlabs is making a beamspring board in 101 ansi). One thing I could suggest on these F keyless keyboards: turn the FN key to a toggle (or have another key be that exclusively) and then have the second layer be identical to the first, but replace the number row with functions. I did this with the Model F77 and it made using it a lot easier for certain activites. The layout on this PC66 you would just have to get used to the semi Unix layout that you find on the HHKB (happy hacking keyboard), but the adjustment for that can be a pain and you can't really go back once you're used to it.
I got one of these a while back and I love it! Funnily enough I did replace the Cherry blues with Kailh box pinks, and now it is one of my favorite keyboards.
I actually really liked the look of the PCjr keyboard (non-chiclet version) back in the day. For some reason the compactness appealed to me, although the layout itself was a real deterrent. One of our early family computers was an IBM PCjx, and they keyboard was similar in style (although grey vs beige), but more complete. We had the version with the numpad. I miss that computer, and it's pretty unlikely I'll get a chance to add one to my collection. They're pretty rare, and when they do appear, they sell for crazy money.
When the Ctrl key is closer to the center of the keyboard, consider folding your thumb under (as you might when playing piano) and take it that way instead of spanning your pinky to it. That's usually how I deal with Alt-key combos.
Oh man the click clack of those keys made my heart melt, which is not something I thought I'd ever say about a keyboard. Super pleasing to the ear and so nostalgic.
Yeah there is really nothing nostalgic about blue mechanical switches. They are pretty much the go to for entry level mechanical keyboards anymore. Clicky switches are very common if you are looking for it.
@@thesteelrodent1796 Cherry's MX switches were introduced in 1983. They're basically contemporary designs, although I think the first blues came a few years after that. MX was just cheaper to make and Cherry had connections in the POS and industrial industries, so they were continuously produced until mechanical keyboards became popular again while most other designs were replaced with cheap rubber dome boards.
@@MarcsSpark ... that's literally the switch he's talking about. turbowafflz, look up Clickiez switches from Zeal. They're nicer than Matias in my opinion. They're not cheap, especially compared to Matias, but they're compatible with MX boards and caps. I have a lot of Matias boards, and KBParadise boards with Matias switches in them. I love their switches, especially for the price. But they do leave something to be desired compared to complicated Alps. I also have multiple OG Alps boards, one with SKCM blues in good shape. The Clickiez actually compete with them in my book.
I didn't hesitate to preorder one of these, especially coming from the venerated Vortex. It's everything I thought it would be, really nice build quality and a pleasant update to a vintage board, BUT... I had the exact same gripes. I can live with FN+Num row for F-keys, but the CTRL being so far inwards really was a dealbreaker for me. I use it far too often to try and suddenly relearn where my pinky needs to reach to. So sad. But the SSK looks BRILLIANT. My IBM SSK is easily my favorite daily driver, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of theirs.
I ended up getting mine from a European reseller because it was cheaper but a Massdrop listing is what caught my attention. Still using mine with a few different keycaps and loving it. Hot swappable switches would be nice but wasn’t standard when I bought it
I went with Kaihl Jades in my portable keyboards for a few years, finally tried Kaihl Box Pinks and they are so good and slightly lighter to use which makes them a better fit for all-day use. The Jades feel better and sound better, but are a wee bit tiring. Pinks sound better than your typical Blue switch, feel better, and are great to use all day.
You should follow along with the lowercase keyboard from Coffee Break Keyboards. Currently still in the works but it's pretty much an IBM Model F in a sub 40% form factor. It's ridiculous and I love it.
My goto for the last 15 years has been the Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite (HHKB) made by (PFU) Fujitsu. Same style and layout with clicky keys and swappable key caps. Lots of chording options and DIP switches for various key swaps like caps lock and control.
Yeah, I was thinking that Control and Alt key placement would make using shortcuts rather hard and make many PC games pretty much unplayable. Some people did a mod a few years back where they took a Vortex Vibe keyboard and modded an Apple M0110A keyboard case which was kind of neat, though the Vibe was/is non-hotswap.
I bought the Unicomp Classic 101 March 2021 and now September 2023. Used a few times and was put into storage. Recently rediscovered and noticed "P" key was acting erratic requiring two or three taps to make contact. Contacted Unicomp and was given RMA but would cost $48.00 plus $16 shipping. After doing my own disassembly I found all but 6 plastic rivet heads were broken off. Unicomp claims this issue was resolved before I purchased in 2021. I would not advise purchasing from Unicomp based on my experience.
If they made a barebones 75% I would absolutely get one immediately. The vortex tab 90m was my first mechanical keyboard and it'd be nice to own another one of their product with more modern specs.
I'm hard of hearing so the blues have a special place in my heart, but these days I prefer to roll with Cherry MX Browns. It was really nostalgic hearing the clicky blues though!
Blues hardly make any sound at all though compared to more exotic alternatives, and some of those particularly thunderous alternatives can also have solenoids that hammer on the case with each press.
It's a pretty sweet board, I just had to get one. Sturdy build with a pretty nice feel and held together with screws so you can take it apart if you want to lube the stabs or whatever without the danger of breaking plastic tabs. A gasket mounted pc plate with silicone dampening gives it a pretty nice feel, very enjoyable. Yes, the left control placement takes a bit to get used to but shouldn't be a big issue for most people. All in all a fun little board.
@LGR Blerbs The PCjr, Atari 400, and Tandy 1000 keyboards are all in the works for my massive vintage keyboard modernization project. The Atari 400 keyboard is about 95% complete as of right now. The Tandy 1000 keyboard is about 50% complete and I plan to get started on the PCjr keyboard once I finish the other two. My goal is to make modern copies of any vintage keyboard that I can lay my hands on.
If you developed a replacement keyboard for the Tandy 1000 EX/HX, I'd definitely buy one from you. The built-in keyboard wasn't the greatest, and mine is pretty worn out. A new one with discrete mechanical switches would be the cat's ass, especially in terms of servicing if individual switches can be replaced if they become damaged. It's pretty much identical to the original Tandy 1000/1000A layout, other than the capslock and numlock LEDs. The EX/HX keyboard uses a different X-Y matrix, but you should at least be able to recycle most of the PCB layout between them.
With you on the Ctrl key thing. It's such a big part of my habits now that I've returned laptops that didn't have the Ctrl or the arrow keys in intuitive positions.
this is so cool. func keys and numeric keypad don't do anything on Akai Force, Waldorf Iridium, Moog One, or Korg Kronos so this is THE keyboard to get for those machines if you want to get a nice high quality small keyboard for typing in patch names etc.
I like it. I understand the PITA of not having dedicated "F" keys, But that's the "price' you pay for the vintage IBM styling. I could totally dig this "paired" with an IBM 8513 monitor. (Someone needs to make a modern reproduction of that, JUST for me to run DOSBox!) LOL.
Sending a keyboard to the internet's No.1 authority on keyboards takes a lot of guts. Good review as always, Clint! Personally I can't live without a proper numpad on the right, to access special characters.
Having grown up with a PCjr, the positive thing about the second gen keyboard is that it wasn't the first gen. The "wireless" keyboard had enough problems by itself. In particular, it was easy to misalign the keyboard with the IR sensor on the computer when it was too close. (i.e. Where you'd typically put a keyboard on your desk.) It was sometimes difficult to sort out if the batteries were dead or if the keyboard was just blocked. I can't imagine dealing with these problems AND having to deal with those horrible chiclets.
@@BlackEpyon I think it was actually the LED lighting, which strobes at high frequencies. I doubt florescent lights would have caused too many problems given that these computers were developed in office environments with lighting tubes. With that said, interference from fancy lighting was not much of a problem in an 80s home. If anything, I'd say the recessed location for the infrared LED in the keyboard was more of a problem. It killed any peripheral transmission of the IR, making alignment really important. IBM's marketing tried to sell it as a feature that you could sit across the room and use the computer. To which I always wondered exactly how you were supposed to read the screen.
@@thewiirocks LED lighting emits only in certain parts of the spectrum. That's part of the reason they're so efficient, and why colour aficionados despise them so much. It shouldn't be interfering with an IR receiver.
@@BlackEpyon It's very common for LEDs to bleed into the infrared range. It's actually somewhat difficult to prevent this and one of the reasons why LEDs are commonly used for IR, going all the way back to the PCjr keyboard itself. The bigger challenge is getting a broad spectrum in the visible range. LEDs are difficult to tune into a frequency spread that replicates incandescent bulbs.
I really don't mind using membrane keyboards if they aren't bad. Most membranes are perfectly fine imo. I use mechanical keyboards mainly though, for the higher polling rate
@@JessicaFEREM The CoCo 1 originally came with a chicklet keyboard, and nobody much cared for that one either. What's even worse is the sealed membrane keyboards some of the early TI and Sinclairs came with. They may be great for toddlers with sticky fingers, but you can NOT type on them!
Just a thought, the Unitek K151L is a pretty common vintage keyboard that usually has "vintage" Cherry MX black switches. They're AT/XT switchable with nice thick ABS top cases, steel bottom cases, thick ABS caps, thick steel plates and beefy 5 pin din cables. They basically knock off the IBM AT/XT keyboard style with an AT keyboard layout. You could swap whatever modern switches you like into one if you wanted, like your box pinks. The PCBs do have pretty bad traces and vias and the factory diodes are inside the switch housings though. I had one with some diodes with legs that had literally rusted through so I desoldered all of the Cherry switches, soldered new diodes onto the bottom of the PCB instead of the top to get them out of the way of more modern switch housings and soldered some box jades into it. You should really try some of Zeal's Clickiez though if you haven't. I would have used them if they existed back when I frankensteined that board.
That's actually one I'm trying to wrap my head around. If you like the Model M, why would you want an MX-compatible Model M, unless you prefer a modern switch to membrane buckling spring? If you don't prefer a modern switch to membrane buckling spring, why not just get a Unicomp? If you do prefer a modern switch to membrane buckling spring ... why do you like the Model M? Aesthetic nostalgia?
So you mention wishing it would work on a PCjr... one thing I'm currently working on is an "Ultimate Bench Keyboard". Basically a 68% or so keyboard with enough keys (and defined function-combinations for the rest) but with a multi-connector system so that you can basically use it to connect to anything: modern USB/bluetooth, PS/2, AT/XT, pcjr, ADB, etc. The idea is going to be to have a slightly smarter than usual microcontroller in it so that it can act as an emulator for any number of protocols, with autodetecting where possible and a menu (on a little OLED display) for the rest, and it'll be possible to flash new keyboard protocols onto it over time, so it can slowly become more and more featured as more keyboard types are implemented. Basically the idea being that you can keep one on your desk and use it with pretty much any computer you need to work with. I'll be sure to send you one once I've got a prototype up and working!
A few modern USB keyboards I have still support PS/2 mode through one of the little passive adapter, but in some cases requires that you enable it via some poorly documented key combination. I wonder if their firmware has something like that still buried in it…
It comes with an RF adapter, so one of those USB to AT/XT adapters might just work with the dongle. Then you don't have to worry about babysitting the exact positioning of the stupid sensor.
The two things that boggle me are the lack of the ` ~ key, or at least it isn't marked on the legend. Most 65% boards usually include that merged with Esc so Fn+Esc gets ` and Shift+Esc gets ~, either way should work so long as I can still open a console in TF2 or Quake. Your second point is my second point too. Modern PCjr keyboard that ISN'T a PCjr keyboard? No infrared? I edited out a tangent about a Bluetooth adapter for AT and PS/2 after you mentioned the USB4VC. Don't comment mid-video, it doesn't work, folks.
I picked one up. Sadly, the up arrow was DOA. I wanted it for my MiSTer since it's about perfect for that application. I'm pretty OK with surface rework, so I fixed it myself, but they had forced a switch into a bent connector, breaking both. It took a bit of work to finesse the pinch connector on the PCB back into a usable state, then I had to resolder it (solder joint broke away, too, but the pad was fine) and swap the End switch with Up since I almost never use the former and always use the latter. I've sent them a request for a replacement switch. We'll see how it goes. Not a great experience, but now that it's working, I have to say it's VERY pleasant to type on.
Update: They were quick to ship out a replacement switch and would have absolutely replaced the whole thing if I'd have asked, so I'm totally happy with the customer support. And I am in love with this keyboard. I guess I'm the answer to 'who the hell would want a PC Jr. keyboard?' Who knew.
From how it looks on camera, with that control key location I'd probably end up using my thumb for hitting it for a massive ergonomic improvement. Although, I personally always bind caps lock to control so that would also enhance usability.
You just cost me money! Got the gray/black version with the two extra keys and Gateron Pro Yellows. With shipping and mva, we're talking $260 😅Once again, I've bought something with the heart, not the head. Absolutely LOVE its design.
I really wish people weren't so harsh on the PCjr. I love it even with all its quirks, though I'll admit that's partly fueled by nostalgia from playing with one as a kid. And IMO the PCjr keyboard is worlds better than the Commodore computers I've used since there's an actual tactile actuation point. The chicklet keyboard has an even better feel to it but is of course terrible for touch typing which kinda negates that. Oh, and my positive impression of the keyboard might also be due to having never used it wirelessly. Both the one from my childhood and the one I finally got a few years ago were wired (the latter required a touch of DIY, but thankfully an adapter was readily available).
To me, functionality is more important than form. It's kinda interesting that they cloned the feel of a specific keyboard from an old iconic PC, but if they're going to target the interface of the keyboard to be for modern PCs, then the key layout should be functionally compatible with that goal as well. Otherwise, it's just a hard-to-use PC keyboard with a fun retro colorway.
Interesting keyboard. Just had a keyboard problem in my nearly 10 years old laptop. The T -key failed and couldn't fix it. It just refuses to work, I think there is physically something wrong with the contact, or the power / ground lead. Had two choices, either to replace the entire original laptop keyboard, or buy an external usb keyboard. Went for the easier and cheaper option, so bought a usb keyboard. Full size desktop PC style, black colour, cheapest one I could find from local store, but it works, second day of using it now :)
15:50 you know... USB > PS/2 converter and then PS/2 > AT converter and then an AT > XT converter (if those exist?)... you know, chaining converters? For the PCjr you could then use the Texelec breakout box which gives the PCjr more orthodox connections. Just a wee thought. :)
The common USB to PS/2 adapters only work with devices specifically designed for them. For other devices you'd need a specialty adapter like the USB4VC.
He mentions box pinks in the video. Zeal's Clickiez are even better than Matias switches though, in my opinion, which I like more than the whole box family. Clickiez dethroned box jades and navies and compete with complicated Alps and capacitive buckling spring in my books.
Yeah... I'd think about it if I could actually use this on my PCjr. Those keyboards are... not great. Not that I'm doing a lot of extensive typing on it anymore
It's an homage to the original. It just wouldn't look right aesthetically for CTRL to be at the bottom-left corner, so one has to decide if they want if for its period-correct styling, and therefore live with adjusting their typing habits, or do they want something more suited to their current habits - in which case the KB they prefer starts to diverge more radically from the original, as in the PC 68.
Why is it so impossible to find a 100% size fully-modular keyboard? So frustrating needing the num pad included but also wanting to build something with specific caps and switches that are uncommon and therefor not available in a pre-built
I always liked the idea of Shift + Up = Page Up, Shift + Down = Page Down, Shift + Left = Home, and Shift + Right = End on limited-space keyboards. True, Space and Shift + Space are good for browsers, but how often do you use Shift with an arrow key in normal non-navigation use? Could save those 4 keys on the right for shortcut/app keys, macros, or functions or just disable them altogether (I usually accidentally hit those keys on similar keyboards).
Not having the control key in the corner is like those keyboards that have a FN key where windows should be, or something goofy with the backslash and the enter key. Really really annoying if you have a deeply-engrained muscle memory, hahaha
At least I'm not alone. I also hate that home/end are omitted on 65% (and other compact) keyboards, even though they're infinitely more useful than page up/down. And what makes it worse, is that pretty much all keycap sets (even the most expensive ones) don't seem to include those keys in the appropriate rows, unless you go for uniform profiles such as XDA or DSA. If there is one that has those keys, I would really like to know...
depends what you do with those keys. I only use pgup in one game, and never use home or end, and I use delete. Most people only really use arrows and delete.
@@BA-oy9uo It's not even for gaming. For writing and coding, home and end are infinitely more useful to me than page up and page down, since I prefer to scroll the document with the mouse.
Insert and delete for me are a definite annoyance of it, but I definitely use pg up, pg down more than home and end when navigating especially when reading or writing.
