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A New Era Begins | Reviewing One Piece: Post-War & Return to Sabaody 

Aleczandxr
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26 сен 2024

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@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
You can watch my next One Piece review (Fishman Island) RIGHT NOW on Patreon here (5$+): www.patreon.com/Aleczandxr To follow the readthroughs on stream, you can follow me on Twitch here: www.twitch.tv/Aleczandxr/ Link to AJ's Discord server: discord.gg/Ekhz7PNuJd After reading some comments, I've decided to remove the line from the video where I say "Oda doesn't like capitalism." While I hold strong to the idea that One Piece undoubtedly critiques it and in particular the trickling bi-products of it to an extent, I realize that I should not have offhandedly dropped that comment without expanding on it and acknowledging the nuance of the topic. So I have cut it out. The video is still processing but once its done, that part will be removed. Thank you to everyone who pointed that out without being rude. CURRENT TWITCH SCHEDULE: Mondays @ 10am EST: A Blind Playthrough of Yakuza 0 Wednesdays @ 10am EST: Naruto Readthrough (Sometimes - check Discord) Fridays @ 10:30am EST: SOME FRIDAYS, I do full One Piece reading streams as well. Check Discord for updates/details. Sundays @ 11am EST: Vinland Saga S2 anime reactions & One Piece Chapter reads
@monster-enthusiast
@monster-enthusiast 9 месяцев назад
"Luffy was behind me" always makes me wanna cry
@brianyaniro5086
@brianyaniro5086 Год назад
This arc was so genius to me. Only Oda. He's a risk taker. Who would think to give such a backstory AFTER the death of the character. We mourned Ace's death in Marineford because of what he meant to Luffy. Now we get to mourn the death of Ace because of who he was. It's a gut punch that could never work unless it was written this way.
@luluna5228
@luluna5228 Год назад
don't you think it goes both ways? since you had to give extra background and why he made that decision instead of buiding up why he would do such a thing?
@brianyaniro5086
@brianyaniro5086 Год назад
@@luluna5228 i don't understand your question.
@monster-enthusiast
@monster-enthusiast 9 месяцев назад
59:50 breaking his promise to Luffy to not die, but keeping his promise to Sabo to protect Luffy
@phoenixtempleeviltruth8074
@phoenixtempleeviltruth8074 Год назад
That moment when Luffy screams that he has no one else… absolutely heartbreaking.
@garysochnikoff8942
@garysochnikoff8942 Год назад
Everytime your voice was cracking, I was shedding tears. I love this story and its characters so much and you make such a good job of pinpointing what is so great about them. What a saga and thank you AJ for making me revisit and reappreciate it in such a new way.
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
My pleasure, Gary :)
@kathab8826
@kathab8826 Год назад
#AJPIECE Dadan beating up Garp never fails to make me tear up! Especially in the anime. What I love about Dadan and Garp is that they told Ace in their own way that he deserved to be born and to live instead of tell him just “yes you do”. Dadan says that only if he becomes the man that Roger was he can avenge Sabo and Garp in return says he can only find the answer to his question if he lives. Ace wearing a similar necklace and remembering Dadan in his final moment and her collecting every newspaper article of Ace (and Luffy) is a testament of their love for one another despite their bickering. It’s yet again one of the “found family” trope Oda handles so well!
@nanashi7779
@nanashi7779 Год назад
1:20 600+ chapters finally did it to him guys, AJ has officially gone insane. He's now arguing with different versions of himself in different timelines. It was fun while it lasted, may he rest peacefully with Jozu in one piece legend 😔
@seemonuzumaki723
@seemonuzumaki723 Год назад
Maybe he'll give up his arm for the sake of a new era..
@Sir507
@Sir507 Год назад
#AJPiece the explanation of haki doesn't make you remember about something? "A pirate are great man of the sea. They have the body hard like a stone, the eyes of an eagle and the voice that tears the sky asunder" First mention by Dr. Hiriluk on drum island! I have to ask: what has been your favorite piece of foreshadowing so far? I love your onepiece videos!
@CalVioLoki
@CalVioLoki Год назад
#AJPiece One of the things I love most about Dadan confronting Garp is that throughout the backstory flashback, she and the other bandits show a marked fear of Garp's wrath, and it's often used as a mask or excuse for why they care so much about Luffy and Ace. However, when the chips are down and Ace dies, Dadan sheds all of that without hesitation to attack Garp. I just love how the story strips her down to her true emotions and motivations there.
@mackielunkey2205
@mackielunkey2205 Год назад
Remember when Dadan said that she wouldn’t give a shit if Ace died? I’m so glad she came around.
@naedid2512
@naedid2512 Год назад
#AJPiece "Luffy, you could become the pirate king without me." - Usopp, Water 7 "Luffy needs me." - Usopp, Post War Usopp admired the brave warriors of the sea. For him, the strength of a pirate could've been a testament to their bravery. Since the monster trio were strong and brave, he probably viewed them as role models. That could be what led him to compare himself to them, constantly. After all that happened in Water 7, he started to change. He isn’t the ‘ideal brave’, but something had changed within him. He no longer compared himself to others. He learned that ‘strength’ wasn’t always physical strength. Each crew member had a different role. When he learned the news that Luffy had lost his brother, he knew he had to be there with Luffy. After all, ‘strength’ wasn’t always fighting. Sometimes, it’s being there for your friend. This situation finally made him say, "Luffy needs me". I think him saying this alone will contribute a lot to his mindset. His development is very gradual and human. He is taking these little actions that will eventually change him. It isn’t a ‘click’ moment, but lessons learned through mistakes and action. Thanks for your reviews. Honestly, I used to dislike Usopp. It's only thanks to you I like him a lot now.
@DP-jt6xx
@DP-jt6xx Год назад
I almost never tear up actually reading the manga, but for whatever reason when I listen to the way you recap the story I always tear up at the emotional moments. Only problem is I always listen at work 😂.
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
:')
@asraaslam3820
@asraaslam3820 Год назад
I was tearing up at barnes and noble listening to him
@Dan-pt2tn
@Dan-pt2tn Год назад
How is there a 3 week old comment on a 1 day old upload?
@DP-jt6xx
@DP-jt6xx Год назад
@@Dan-pt2tn patreon my dude
@25redshark
@25redshark Год назад
Remember in Enies Lobby when Luffy said "I know exactly who Robin's enemy is..."? Has new meaning with this flashback
@kainez1001
@kainez1001 Год назад
How someone is able to elevate a story I already love and appreciate throughly by this significant of a margin is mind blowing. Love these videos man cant wait for more of your post time-skip thoughts!
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
Cheers Kaine, so glad you enjoy them so much!
@seemonuzumaki723
@seemonuzumaki723 Год назад
Amen
@alicepbg2042
@alicepbg2042 Год назад
#AJPiece I really like the scene of Dadan confronting Garp. She takes on our anger at garp for not helping ace and throws it at him. and when someones tries to defend garp saying "he must feel the worst of all" she rebutes "no he's not. the one who is hurt the most is luffy". which then cuts to luffy on the island screaming his heart out. it's a very small scene, but it has such an emotional gut punch to me. specially after getting the backstory.
@AndrewAce.
@AndrewAce. Год назад
#AJPiece 1:30:10 - This was such a full and emotional point in the story. Probably the most so. There's so much to take absorb, and this is kind of a small detail, but there are two things I always like about this Zoro & Sanji scene. 1) Zoro tries to go fishing and accidentally boards a pirate ship just like Koby. 2) He falls asleep and cuts apart their ship when they wake him, which Zeff mused was the reason Mihawk attacked Krieg's fleet (for disturbing his afternoon nap) - And although Gin thought it was BS, Zeff insisted that anything can happen on the Grand Line... I just LOVE how Oda always brings these things full circle even years and years later - Or as you put it at 1:31:33 - _'It's like poetry, it rhymes'._ One Piece is such a magical series...
@Mooglatan
@Mooglatan Год назад
#AJPiece This arc really recontexualises Luffy in Enies Lobby saying to Robin "I know your enemy well" referring to the World Government/Celestial Dragons.
@AndrewAce.
@AndrewAce. Год назад
Interesting
@seemonuzumaki723
@seemonuzumaki723 Год назад
Did he really know when he was a kid that it was the Celestial Dragons who were doing that? I don't remember him acknowledging that he new it was them in the past.
@valordelink
@valordelink Год назад
Actually he says "I now understand who Robin's enemy is" I am pretty sure that he didn't know who killed Sabo
@milli1089
@milli1089 6 месяцев назад
@@seemonuzumaki723yeah when the news of sabo’s death was being told to ace and Luffy, they knew the details and dadan told ace he can’t do anything and tied him up to stop him from trying to get revenge
@Theragicanfanclub
@Theragicanfanclub Год назад
Donflamingo did not finish off Moria because he desaparead infront of he's eyes, he believes it must be a secret part of the shadow fruit but we know that Absalom has the ability to save him
@alicepbg2042
@alicepbg2042 Год назад
but it was probably just him switching with his shadow
@behanort4556
@behanort4556 Год назад
#AJPiece So, with Main Character's backstory finally revealed after 580 chapters, i think its time to point the patterns that I and others before me have noticed when it comes to the forming of the Straw Hat Pirates. That being: every member of the strawhat crew so far has had their own found family before joining. Zoro had Kuina and his master. Nami had Bellmere, Nojiko and Genzo. Usopp had Kaya and his Usopp Pirates. Sanji had Zeff. Chopper had Hiruluk and Kureha. Robin had Archeologists of Ohara and Saul. Franky had Tom, Icebur, Kokoro and Yokozuna, Brook had Rumbar Pirates and Laboon... and Luffy not only had Shanks, but also Ace, Sabo and Dadan. Not only that, each of the straw hats outside of Luffy (for obvious reasons) has their own moment of "Refusal of the Call" whenever luffy invites them, usually caused by thier feeling of obligation or attachment to thier found family - think of Nami's actions in East Blue Saga, or Sanji not wanting to leave Baratie becuase of his perceived debt to Zeff, or Franky's refusal to make ships and leave water 7 because of what happened to Tom, etc. Obviously, its not a straightfoward template that Oda always copy pastes every single time, im not saying that, and there are obviosuly smaller and bigger diffrences between how a new straw hat is inducted into the cast. But, to add that point - it is often that attachment and love for thier family of choice that keeps a soon-to-be- Pirate-King-crewmate from deciding to follow thier dreams, to set out to sea and, kinda metaphorically, come of age and become their own independent person. In this moment, either because of Luffys actions during the arc, or because of the encouragment of the aforementioned loved ones, (but usually its a mix of both), they decide to leave their old family behind, and become a part of Luffy's family.
@gingerspice5477
@gingerspice5477 Год назад
Ooh I like that bit about the refusal of the call. Makes the me think about how luffy saying he’s too weak to be king of the pirates during this arc is his own refusal of the call, with jinbei being the own to convince him out of that refusal. Jimbeis relationship with luffy in general is so interesting to me because of it being a reversal of the usual thing of luffy helping who ever joins the crew through their rough patch
@PetarBladeStrok
@PetarBladeStrok Год назад
This is EASILY the best review of this arc that I've seen. Huge respect to you AJ. You understand the depth and breadth of all themes within it. You express how we all felt while reading/watching this. Thank you for this incredible review!
@joshshrum2764
@joshshrum2764 Год назад
I did enjoy kroto mystery shack talking about it mainly because of the discussion about Rayleigh, and Roger, meeting for the first time, and gushing about those added scenes even though aj saw them.
@Crazed3raser337
@Crazed3raser337 Год назад
I like how we got the early AJpiece and also the awkward pause as a bonus 😂
@Hologramburrito
@Hologramburrito Год назад
Hes going to love dressrosa for sure
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
Just started it!
@WindAxel0
@WindAxel0 Год назад
I was just checking your channel for the next one like 3 hours ago LMAO
@neve2501
@neve2501 Год назад
ME TOO I WAS WAITING SO IMPATIENTLY
@Nastyn1nja808
@Nastyn1nja808 Год назад
Lol I love catching him live on twitch and I even watch the Vods. They don't stay forever though. Lost to the mists of time. So good
@benzohhhhh
@benzohhhhh Год назад
@@Nastyn1nja808 them vods changed my life
@superchamploo1155
@superchamploo1155 Год назад
#AJpiece As someone with brothers, one thing I really appreciated about this arc was how it conveyed Luffy and Ace's brotherhood and how ugly brotherhood can be. Although they meet as brothers, I like how it actually takes some time before they become friends. There are things Ace and Sabo do in this arc that my brothers have done, like the tough love Ace gives Luffy combined with the desire to not look weak in his presence. It also helps that they're not related. They don't love each other because Garp decided one day that they were brothers, rather they are brothers because they love each other, so its even stronger and more real than if they were blood-brothers.
@gingerspice5477
@gingerspice5477 Год назад
Yes 100%. I have an older brother with the same age gap between us that luffy and ace have and their was many many times I was reminded of our relationship. But also that idea of ace kinda struggling with the softer aspects of brotherhood because of his own self worth issues until sabo passes is very interesting to me because it makes me think about how much luffy teamed improved aces life. Ace had to decide to be better for luffy and because of that decision he grows into the much more stable man we see later on in his life.
@gingerspice5477
@gingerspice5477 Год назад
#AJPiece there’s a lot I could talk about for this arc, like I could go one for hours about it actually but today I wanna focus on one scene in it particular and how it connects to earlier arcs and themes. That scene being being luffy ramming himself into trees after starting to have flashbacks to aces death. When I first saw it i was stricken by how visceral it was. How of course the first thing luffy, who solves most things by going “which guy do I punch”, would think the solution to a having a flashback to his brothers death would be to physically stop his brain from continuing to think about it by hitting his head against the rocks and trees in the forest. But later on some rewatched while watching both you and others react to earlier scenes I realized the first real instance of this self-harming tendency he has goes all the way back to the beginning of Amazon Lilly. That scene of him eating those laughing mushrooms in order to force himself to smile and laugh after being separated from his crew. In general it seems luffy’s main copping mechanism for trauma is distraction (possibly picked up because of ace usually defaulting to repression? Not sure but could be an explain). I think alot of the reason he doesn’t seem to concerned with the crew during the majority of Amazon Lilly and past that until the very end of this arc is because he’s got other things he’s forcing himself to focus on (the mushrooms, getting off the island, saving ace and so on). Either way the next time we see it pop up is here in the post-war arc. The screaming and throwing himself around as he wakes up, trying to find ace as a distraction for having to deal with the truth that ace isn’t here anymore. There are some very devastating lines in this scene in and the one later with jinbei. The most striking to me being “I pinched my cheek hard enough to tear it apart, if this were a dream I would have already woken up” in response to jinbei saying that this isn’t a dream as luffy is made out of rubber and so the amount of effort he must have had to put into do so and really prove to himself his brother is gone is unfathomable to me. After that the other line comes after jinbei saying that he can’t stand to see luffy hurt himself like this to which luffy responds “it’s my body, I can do what I like!” Which was a surprise to say the least from luffy. It implies that he’s aware that all of these things are harmful to himself, he’s not just doing this on instinct. Cause while luffy is very emotionally intelligent until this point I’d thought of most of that being instinctually, and while some of it definitely is, after diving deeper into this scene I’m starting to think the majority of it is not. Moving more into themes, that idea of a freedom being distorted into being free to harm yourself is a fascinating way to both consider that theme after we see a flashback in which we come to understand we’re luffy learned about freedom in the same way that it just deepens how much luffy is not himself in this moment. We’ve seen luffy stop Nami from hurting herself during arlong park, so why can’t the same be applied to himself? It’s simple. He doesn’t have his friends with him. The way oda is able to so easily intertwine these themes of freedom and found family with this amazing characterization of an already great main character is absolutely baffling to me in the best way. I really cannot praise both him and this arc enough for that. Sorry for this becoming a bit of a ramble, hope I got my point across and looking forward to the next video and stream as always!
@notationmusical
@notationmusical Год назад
It really shows how Luffy might have adopted Ace's ideal that "you shouldn't cry," doing what he can to distract himself from the pain.
@mackielunkey2205
@mackielunkey2205 Год назад
I find that observation extremely fascinating because when Luffy mourned over Sabo dying, Ace served as a successor and even a substitute for Sabo. We see the rough-and-tough Ace grow to be nicer toward Luffy just like Sabo was after his brush with death back then. It helped Luffy become tough when he needed to, but also sympathetic when someone like Nami needed a helping hand. Maybe that’s the reason why Luffy repressed all those memories about Sabo because he had Ace to fulfill them for years, while he knew Sabo only for months.
@nickwilliams2745
@nickwilliams2745 Год назад
I just noticed how actually insane it is that a very common sentiment in one piece is that the fights get in the way or are less interesting than the politics in a SHONEN manga I agree fully it’s just any other series that’d sound insane
@gig-9424
@gig-9424 Год назад
5i5i
@SamTheGumMan117
@SamTheGumMan117 Год назад
Thankfully, Law doing so much for our boi and Jinbei helping as well to that moment that you have in the thumbnail makes me shed a tear each time I reread/rewatch it. 😭 Also the training Luffy goes through with Rayleigh is great stuff to finally having the whole gang back together to them meeting the fake strawhats lmao and having Kuma the one who protected the Thousand Sunny awesome so much cool stuff to see in the new world I'm stoked to see what you think
@RandomGuyyyy
@RandomGuyyyy Год назад
#AJPiece To give Moria some extra credit, he was right. The Strawhats were not ready for the New World and Luffy got to experience that even more in Marineford than he did on Sabaody. Luffys despair after Marineford was wiped off by him remembering he still has something. His friends. Moria didn't get to have that luxury. He lost his entire crew and he went full deep dive into that despair and never fully got back out of it. Which is why that panel of Moria telling Luffy he will lose it all with that expression hits a bit harder now.
@jordywhitmer4793
@jordywhitmer4793 Год назад
I'm so glad for this arc because a lot of people enjoyed Luffy already but man this made so many of us love so much about Luffy all the way down to the reason he eats everything he can get his hands on going so far as to "steal" his crew's food
@ArrakisHeir88
@ArrakisHeir88 Год назад
Man, you can tell Dragon is gonna be an authoritarian from his first chronological actions. Oda is a genius.
@ArrakisHeir88
@ArrakisHeir88 Год назад
Semi-related, what planet do you live on where you see a place named Goa KINGDOM where there has likely never been an election and has an explicitly command economy and think, "Yes, this is capitalism." Do you imagine the royals would be cool with a second, fourth, or fifth amendment?
@2Quick4You100
@2Quick4You100 Год назад
"After the Marineford Arc, I don't think there will ever be an arc like that in One Piece again." Oh boy
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
I'd love to be proven wrong!
@royalfun1031
@royalfun1031 Год назад
Is he wrong tho?
@שגיאאדרי-ו4צ
@שגיאאדרי-ו4צ Год назад
@@royalfun1031 yes
@tiem6260
@tiem6260 Год назад
#AJPiece on the note of "oda doesnt like capitalism", Dragon's ship is called the wind grandma which is the name of Fidel Castro's ship (not to mention how oda portrays the billionaire class that are the celestial dragons).
@gabriellabelle3915
@gabriellabelle3915 Год назад
Plus luffy and Karl marx share the same bday And oda has a che poster in his office
@benzohhhhh
@benzohhhhh Год назад
Man going through all the vods with you on twitch has been my main source of entertainment for some time now. I even stopped my rewatch and started along with you. I cannot wait for you to be caught up.
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
SO glad you're enjoying!
@tiem6260
@tiem6260 Год назад
#AJPiece Ace's tattoo in retrospect isnt actually a mistake. The crossed out S in his tattoo is to pay respect to sabo. On top of that, the beads that he wears around his neck are the same beads dadan wears. Just some small notes about how meticulous oda is about character design.
@hrafnknutsson2859
@hrafnknutsson2859 Год назад
I don't think sabo changed dragon in anyway he was just suprised that a noble child would come to hate his own kind
@RonaKurona
@RonaKurona Год назад
It's very impressive that you can pull out these almost 2 hours long reviews without a fully written script, don't worry if the words comes out a bit off sometimes Thanks for the amazing work
@zxcvb3772
@zxcvb3772 11 месяцев назад
Post war arc is my favorite arc in the entire series, perfect ending to part 1 of One Piece. I almost cried watching this video.
@kevinbagust
@kevinbagust Год назад
#AJPiece With regards to Luffy's dream it is not to be King of the Pirates, as he never says "I want to be King of the Pirates" it is always "I will be the King of the Pirates" as if it is a forgone conclusion that he will be the King of the Pirates. In that moment he says "I want ..." which to me implies he was going to say something else although I have no idea what he was going to say.
@StephenN.Parker
@StephenN.Parker Год назад
31:03 probably more of a “correction” because you said Doflamingo let Moria go instead of killing, but it actually not the case, Moria escaped.
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
Doflamingo literally told him that he could make it look to the world like he was killed though, no? Which would imply he let him go.
@StephenN.Parker
@StephenN.Parker Год назад
@@Aleczandxr no… he said they (WG) gonna make it look like Moria was killed in the war, but it was actually Doflamingo kill him later following the order of the WG. So it was implied that WG doesn’t want the world to know that they ordered Moria - one of the Warlord to be killed, and want to cover it up. Later when Doffy talk with that WG guy, he literally said Moria just vanish and didn’t know the Shadow Fruit can do that.
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
Ahh. Thanks!
@DrMrProfessorFox
@DrMrProfessorFox Год назад
#AJPiece One Piece captures one of the most important features of long term storytelling, and that is the departure from the classic storytelling devices and layouts that people are so used to in media. Certainly these elements do appear in One Piece, but they are adapted and twisted into strange new shapes to the point where the classic 3 act story structure is barely recognizable anywhere in the series. While PostWar serves as falling action not just for Marineford but for the ENTIRETY of One Piece so far, it also sets us up for so many things yet to come. How many stories wait well over a decade before delving into the backstory of THE MAIN CHARACTER. Keeping in mind that this is the final stretch of a huge section of the story where Oda cuts out the rest of the main cast for 2 years. The level of dedication and confidence in the story and world Oda is crafting is unheard of in most other forms of media. One of the key reasons that I think these long form stories manage to work so well despite not bing able to rely on the traditional story structures relies on keeping touchstones that the audience keeps in their mind to associate parts of story related to. And what makes Return to Sabaody hit so hard for me is not just that thematic return, but for the first time so far in the series we arent just calling back to a previous, but we are forming an entirely new point that RHYMES with the previous point (as close as I can articulate it). Beyond mere callbacks of plot and themes, it takes concepts and themes addressed in a prior arc and takes them on again with fresh eyes. One Piece is not just a long story, but it is one that adapts as time goes on. The presence of the Celestial Dragons when we first arrived at Sabaody was a terrible shock to us as the audience, but as PostWar makes clear, Luffy already knew about this darkness. All through the first portion of One Piece Luffy has been a beacon of unquenchable enthusiasm and love, and apart from several key fights has been head and shoulders above pretty much everyone he went up against. Then Sabaody hit, and not only are we shown the brutality of the world government, but Luffy is shown the depths of the waters he has been playing in. It is a wakeup call that slowly becomes a nightmare as more and more of what made Luffy who he is gets taken away. Upon the Return to Sabaody, we now come with new perspective. Not just Luffy knowing how strong the world is, but in understanding how the big boys really play and seeing their evil in the open. We have our eyes opened, and where Sabaody once represented seperation and despair, Return counters it fully with Reunion and Joy. The Supernova were the peak of promising rookies. The rookies in Return are literally bad imitations of those who came before. There is obv more I could go into, but Return "rhymes" with Sabaody in what I think is a pattern with many arcs going forward. By the time these go up, AJ should be mostly through fishman island, and the pattern appears again by rhyming with Arlong Park, not just recontextualizing it, but taking the same themes explored in that arc so long ago and talking about them in a brand new light, as over 10 years passed between Arlong and FMI. The minor themes of slavery and racism dabbled with in Arlong Park are touched on again with a newer gravitas and tone, befitting a conversation you would have with a kid who didnt know much when Arlong came out, but has since grown and is ready for a more nuanced discussion of this heavy material. That degree of rhyming with prior themes in newer lights is something I think is a pattern going forward (not 1 to 1 but it is there). I look forward to seeing how AJ interprets future arcs both on their own and how they relate to prior arcs. Love the content, I will still be here AJ!
@Crazed3raser337
@Crazed3raser337 Год назад
#AJPiece - I am so happy that you agree that Jimbei's tough love, and Luffy remembering what he still has to fight for is the best chapter in the series. I am a weekly reader, fully caught up, and that same scene has been my favorite since it happened and still is my favorite moment. And Jimbei shoots up the ranks of favorite characters for a lot of people because of that but I don't hear a lot of people talk about the whys. I personally believe that he has done the single best thing for Luffy out of anyone, in snapping him out of his dark depression and self loathing. Arguably Shanks motivating Luffy at the start could be higher but I think it is what Jimbei did. He did much more than save Luffy's life. A lot of people have done that through the series. In Marineford alone, pretty much all of Whitebeard's crew, Buggy, Koby, Law, Ace obviouslly, all worked together in some way to save Luffy's life, Jimbei included almost sacrificing himself for Luffy like Ace did. But remember what Luffy said to Koby all the way back at the start of the series. I'm paraphrasing here but Luffy told him that if he were to die in pursuit of his dream, then, well he dies, and he would be OK with that. It is very clear that Luffy would rather die in pursuit of his dream than to live but give up at it. But after Marineford, after all the despair of losing his crew and then losing Ace, he almost did give up. And Jimbei is the one that pulled him back and got him to remember that he still has people who love him and who he loves, he still has a reason to pursue his dream. Jimbei saved Luffy from a fate worse than death, and it is why he is my favorite character aside from Luffy himself.
@momoz4427
@momoz4427 Год назад
It is a blast going on this journey with you! I love the streams and reviews. Your collab with Recon was awesome as well!✌️
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
Thank you!
@brianyaniro5086
@brianyaniro5086 Год назад
I never made the connection before but there was another point in the story where Luffy said basically the same thing as he did when he was a kid. When facing off against Blueno in Ennies Lobby, he reveals 2nd gear by saying that he was glad he met CP9 because it helped push him to get stronger and develop a new technique so that he could protect his friends and "noone had to go away".
@YetiCoolBrother
@YetiCoolBrother Год назад
#AJPiece I know that you're famously not a power scaler but I did want to speak on the thematics of Haki both because thats what makes it one of my favorite power systems and because it's gonna be a big deal going forward. Basically as Raleigh explains Haki is the physical manifestation of a person's Willpower, the more of it you have and the stronger your resolve the stronger your Haki will be. This means that anytime two characters that use Haki fight it is both a literal & metaphorical clashing of wills and ideals; Haki is essentially the ability to leverage subtext to your advantage as a character in a story and I just think thats really cool. This is doubly true for those that can use Conqueror's Haki, basically saying "My willpower and self-confidence is so resolute that you cant even remain conscious in my prescence." I liken it to how IRL certain iconic figures are said to have just a certain aura or mystique about them, hyper charismatic leaders/great people like an Alexander The Great or Winston Churchill or Martin Luther King Jr. It's taking a concept we're familiar with IRL and inserting it into the story in the most flamboyant way, which for me is a lot of what I look for in fantasy stories in general. Also it's just the coolest thing ever right? Lol
@rayenkkj2285
@rayenkkj2285 Год назад
the Luffy dream gives me chills, just talking and thinking about it
@Jyiber
@Jyiber Год назад
I feel like there's a conflation of the World Government and the Marines. In some ways they exist as separate entities and in others you can't separate them. It might be the case that in a world where the WG didn't exist (or at least wasn't run by the same people) the Navy might have been a more fair and just institution. But so long as they follow orders from the WG, then they have to obey a command like: destroy Ohara; and guys like Akainu will follow blindly.
@danielsantiagourtado3430
@danielsantiagourtado3430 Год назад
Love these videos! Keep on the amazing work man!😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
Cheers, so glad to hear it!
@YahikoTendo
@YahikoTendo Год назад
Usopp was just surprised to see Sniper King, there was no fear just being similar to Luffy and Chopper.
@EaxGLe
@EaxGLe Год назад
#AJPiece I just want to thank you for your effort in reviewing One Piece my absolute favorite story. I am enjoying your journey as much as you are enjoying it. In my opinion, the post-war arc has the best panel in One Piece where Shanks and Marco are standing in front of White beard’s and Ace’s grave. I just have 2 questions. 1- What are some of your favorite panels in One Piece? 2- Do you think Luffy’s past (the one in post-war arc) would have the same impact if it was before Marineford? What do you prefer if it was before or after Marineford? Thank you for your reviews and keep going.
@ClashBluelight
@ClashBluelight Год назад
#AJPiece I've always thought one of the core themes of this whole saga was desperation. More specifically, the consequences of desperation, and why it should be avoided. If an outcome isn't just wanted, but absolutely needed, or if you've placed some of your self worth or self importance on a specific outcome, that can be extremely unhealthy. I think this is greatly demonstrated through Luffy from Sabaody to now. Time and time again, we see Luffy make a move out of desperation, and time and time again, it has severe consequences. The most severe of which coming when Luffy's recklessness leads indirectly to Ace's death. Throughout the last few arcs Luffy has lost his crew, several years of his life, his health and his freedom briefly, a friend, and more. And in the end, what was it all for? It was all so that he could watch his brother die in his arms. Luffy banked everything on a specific outcome, and couldn't handle it when the opposite came to pass. This is the ultimate consequence of desperation. If you stake too much on a specific outcome, you're not giving yourself a strong foundation to stand on. In the end, the lesson Luffy takes from Jimbei is that he shouldn't place all of his eggs in one basket. Even if he lost this time, there's always next time. I think it's a pretty well handled running theme that's been being set up from all the way back in Long Ring Island.
@Noah-je2xj
@Noah-je2xj Год назад
as for Zoro vs Mr One, he was using armament haki in that fight since we know that armament haki allows one to attack while ignoring the target's devil fruit ability, and that's how Zoro was able to cut Mr. One
@BluePhx17
@BluePhx17 Год назад
oh the story of Luffy is heartbreaking. I love this series and there is just so much going on emotionally. Again thank you for words.
@9LivesDeepDives
@9LivesDeepDives Год назад
Been eagerly awaiting this video!!! Let’s goooo
@LucasSantana-ws8po
@LucasSantana-ws8po Год назад
I love that Alczandxr plays FF7 and 8 OST during the videos
@Drmcsmrst
@Drmcsmrst Год назад
That’s incredible. You’ve posted this right as I finished your whole review series up to marineford, I might have Luffy’s cosmic luck.
@justmyopinion79
@justmyopinion79 Год назад
Underrated arc, for me it's in the top 5.
@Steelersrg8
@Steelersrg8 Год назад
#AJPiece I was finally able to catch to the reviews! My part I would like to contribute is: “It’s never really brought up in the series due to the fact that oda doesn’t make a big deal of it but there are 79.2 hours in our time in a one piece day making each time frame roughly 3.3 times longer than we know. So in universe the crew was only together for 90 days in world. However in our world it would be 9 months and 22 days. So for each of the straw hats this is the amount of time they were part of the crew pretimeskip: Luffy 90 days (9 months 22 days) Zoro 90 days(9 months 22 days) Nami 90 days(9 months 22 days) Usopp 89 days(9 months 18 day) Sanji Day 89 days (9 months 18 days) Chopper day 79 days (8 months and 17 days) Robin day 67 days (7 months and 8 days) Franky 53 days (5 months 22 days) Brook 36 days (3 months 27 days) This is never really mentioned outside of extra material so I thought it would be interesting for you to know. Basically the reason for this is as shown in robins flash back with the globe the one piece world has 9 moons and is much larger than the earth. So naturally time works differently there. It’s something a-lot of fans gloss over.” I hope I explained this well it’s a mind boggling concept to explain and understand.
@WarKittens28
@WarKittens28 Год назад
I've never heard this before and I've been following the series for over a decade. Do you have a source you can point me to?
@rujandoru2033
@rujandoru2033 Год назад
#AJPiece I've been absolutely obsessed with the Post War arc for so long now. The loss of Ace is an intrinsically unfortunate event but the way Oda writes in an arc that puts what we lost into perspective is so masterful. We see how many people care about Ace and we hurt for them when Ace is lost, but the Post-War arc makes you, the reader, feel that pain personally. It develops Ace as a character and in doing so retroactively magnifies the potency of his death. I've always loved Luffy. He's simple, determined, and inspiring. The Post-War arc doesn't change that about him but it adds a further shade to his character that quietly reinforces what makes him such an effective protagonist. Anyways, I'm a sucker for arcs that don't progress the main plot, but sort of remaster the development of our main characters.
@mr.megikayu
@mr.megikayu Год назад
#AJPiece I don't know either others already mentioned to you or not but if you remember Robin's backstory is one of only backstory that Luffy actively listening to the end and Luffy answers "I totally get who's Robin's enemy is" and ask Sogeking to shoot the flags to declare a war to World Government and also why Luffy punch St. Charlos in Shabaody. Luffy really understands the weight of World Nobles/Celestial Dragon. Luffy from the start of the story maybe an idiots but he really knows who his real enemy is in the world from this backstory because the World is the one who takes Sabo from him, his brother in the past. And I also have the question, do you want to go back and read one piece again to find these little tidbits and "foreshadowing" that Oda puts in his story? I really love your scripted structure on story breakdown like hunterxhunter and I hope one day maybe you are willing to do for one piece too after who catches up eventhough I know it is hard because of Toei notorious copyright strike policy. And thanks for covering this story. Love from Malaysia.
@mahgeetahh
@mahgeetahh Год назад
Glad you finally met Luffy's mom Dadan
@tiem6260
@tiem6260 Год назад
#AJPiece post war is the first time we get to truly understand luffy as a person. Before this arc, we see this force of nature that is unrelenting and a constant ray of sunshine who would never give up. But after both ace's and sabo's deaths, we see the real person behind that force of nature since crucially we almost never hear luffy's inner monologue. In reality, luffy is trying to do the best with his situation, but at his core he's still this profoundly lonely kid. This is why he's ready to die for his friends and why (before ace's death) the thing that hurt luffy the most was when usopp left the crew. It explains why luffy was ready to let usopp back in even if it meant usopp walking all over him and his leadership. It explains luffy's reaction in sabaody which honestly ressembles a panic attack in my opinion. The fact that oda made it halfway through his series without truly showing us who our main character is shows how supremely confident oda is in his story.
@sanji_joestar
@sanji_joestar Год назад
10:50 Thanks for the response I completely agree with how it also applies to Buggy and that force of nature aspect from Luffy might be one of my favorite defining traits of his character
@joaquinconde4381
@joaquinconde4381 Год назад
#AJPiece So, let's take a moment to talk about Usupp and Symbolism. During this watch trough of One Piece (that's right, I'm anime only), I've noticed a "beetle" theme surrounding the sniper monarch. This first appeared when Sogeking was introduced, wielding his improved slingshot, named Kabuto. Later, in Thriller Bark, he came up with a giant slingshot which he named Kuwagata and used a technique called Atlas Suisei / Atlas Comet against Perona. Even his mentor during the two years of training was named Heracles('n) and clearly resembled a beetle. Now, Kabuto, Kuwagata, Atlas, and Heracles are all species of beetles. Furthermore, Kabuto and Kuwagata are names for Japanese helmets that kind of resemble the insect that inspired them. Also, Atlas and Heracles (or Hercules, if you will), are characters from Greek mythology, the first one the titan that literally held the earth and the other one the quintessential hero. As a side note, Sogeking's anime original song is highly reminiscent of the openings for Toei's Tokusatsu shows, especially Kamen Rider, a grasshopper-themed hero. All in all, my main takeaway from this is that bugs, and especially beetles are closely related to the Japanese image of a warrior, a hero. Personally, I think that's a great thematic fit for Usopp, the most heroic of the Straw Hats. I'm excited to see where this goes now, with his new plant abilities (I've watched some of the later arcs, but I was eleven back then, so obviously I wasn't very mindful of themes and symbolism), so I'll keep an eye out for that.
@sarcoidosis33
@sarcoidosis33 Год назад
#AJPiece I would love to hear Luffy's internal monolog at multiple points in this story. Despite Oda keeping that from us, love how he gives everything to the readers. He doesnt leave any stone unturned and always provides satisfying storytelling. I'm so exciting to see how he ends this epic.
@varionbrickel8709
@varionbrickel8709 Год назад
Man, i fucking cried when you started reciting Sabo's letter and what it meant to Ace. Shit hurts.
@GregoryFord98
@GregoryFord98 Год назад
#AJPiece a few details about Sabo and his death on how it has affected Luffy and Ace. Ace and Luffy lost their brother when they were really young. This is why Ace did not want Luffy at Marineford. He did not want to lose his brother. This is why Luffy went to Marineford, because he did not want to lose his brother. The world government took both of his brothers. Interesting that Luffy's father is the leader of the World Government's greateat opposition. While Ace's father is the King of the Pirates, the WG's greatest fear. Luffy in Enies Lobby, before using Gear 2nd for the first time, Luffy says, "I created this techique because l don't want to see any of my friends go away ever." He is traumatized by the fear of losing of friends. When Spandam ask Luffy if he is aware of Robin's enemy (the World Government) Luffy, a character who never knows what's going on in the world, states "I'm well awarw of Robin's enemy." Saboady created Luffy's fear of losing his friends and at the hand of the Government again. Then Ace died by those same hands. Thanks for the great content!
@GregoryFord98
@GregoryFord98 Год назад
I'm unsure if this is canon, but Ace's ASCE tatto stands for Ace, Sabo (crossed out), Crybaby (Luffy), Edward Newgate. His father and family in order he met them.
@user-gr9kh2jv2f
@user-gr9kh2jv2f 11 месяцев назад
I like the idea of trying to add meaning to the tattoo but we see ace with the tattoo prior to meeting whitebeard so I doubt that was the intent
@baileylowe374
@baileylowe374 Год назад
#AJPiece I feel like there could be more of a reason to Dragon visiting these specific islands at this time, perhaps trying to recruit for the revolutionary army among the swordsmen of Zoro's island
@ArrakisHeir88
@ArrakisHeir88 Год назад
"I want to have the best party ever" is the dream Screencap this post
@qontroL
@qontroL Год назад
Its so interresting to realize that at this moment Luffy has spent more time with Rayleigh than with his own crew. Also really curious what Aokiji will do as fleet admiral hehe
@Seloliva1015
@Seloliva1015 8 месяцев назад
Ace's tattoo means A-Ace C-Crybaby S-Sabo (crossed becouse they thought he was dead) E-Edward Newgate, Whitebeard
@johnmarkulep5339
@johnmarkulep5339 Год назад
Gray Terminal was based on Smokey Mountain, a famous slum in Manila! Philippines👍
@TheArcSet
@TheArcSet Год назад
Thanks for this great video.
@commonviewer2488
@commonviewer2488 Год назад
Truly the worst days of Luffy's life. Good thing Jimbei was there to comfort and remind Luffy that even after all of this pain and failure, he still has people who love him, and await his return.
@wJermell0
@wJermell0 Год назад
Was the Omori shirt intentional? Because it feels very appropriate for this section all about accepting and moving on from grief
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
It wasn’t intended to be thematically fitting with the arc, no, but it’s a nice coincidence!
@tuvillo
@tuvillo Год назад
#AJPiece The talk of Luffy's self-centered morality reminds me of an eye-opening video about Gon you once did. I wouldn't say Luffy is QUITE as severe a case as Gon, but it's close. PS: Just checked, it's literally called The Morality of Gon Freecss, lol.
@silasgotsch4458
@silasgotsch4458 Год назад
love it man! So excited for your next video. This time i might finally do it and get early access.
@DonKappa1
@DonKappa1 Год назад
Great video AJ ☺️👍
@SplinterSTAN
@SplinterSTAN Год назад
Any thoughts about Roger and Rayleigh flashback with the straw hat?
@Matrunks
@Matrunks Год назад
#AJPiece Every time Luffy talks about the King of the Pirates, its almost never, "I want to be the King of the Piratres", but rather "I'm going to be the King of the Pirates." So Luffy saying "I want to-" hints that it is indeed something different.
@dr7226
@dr7226 Год назад
i mean hannyabal works in a prison where the prisoners are continually tortured until they die, pretty evil
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
That does not make someone evil whatsoever, especially if they are completely lacking in the context behind that evil.
@insylogo
@insylogo Год назад
It won't be coming for a few chapters, but @AJPiece when you get to chapter 668 please let us know if you notice anything unusual that calls back to your favorite chapter so far.
@austynkozak4073
@austynkozak4073 Год назад
LETs GO I was waiting for this one!
@valordelink
@valordelink Год назад
#AJPiece great as always and I really like following your read on twitch, it has been great to see the story with a new coat of maturity from my part. Something I really like about the flashback and I don't think you mention it, but Ace never told anyone who he was son of, he asked random people "what would you think if roger had a son", so this people didn't hate him directly but Ace hated them for saying that, I think this adds more to the loneliness of Ace growing up, since he knows everyone would hate him if that secret came out, they didn't hate Ace, they hated the idea of a sons of Roger.
@microvan1234
@microvan1234 5 месяцев назад
With the new context we get about Bonney in egghead makes that big she’s Blackbeard so bad
@yannenenenen
@yannenenenen Год назад
#AJPiece I just wanna bring one thing to light that Ive noticed and it always makes me ugly cry, At Enies Lobby Luffy has a speech during the introduction of gear 2 it said “I came up with a way to fight at top strength So I wont have to lose to anyone, *So no one has to go away.*” At first when I saw the speech I was like damn okay go off Luffy, Then we see Luffy’s backstory particularly what he says after Sabo’s death. “Ace, I want to get stronger. I wanna be lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots lots stronger! So there wont be anything I cant protect and *Nobody’ll ever have to go away again!*”. Ive noticed they mirror each other in a way, That maybe at that point Luffy was thinking of Sabo. For me Gear 2 and 3 kind of felt like Oda just pulled it out of his butt just cause. But this speech recontextualized so many things for me. Luffy even off screen was and is possibly training to be stronger, thinking of creative moves and ways to protect his Nakama, To protect his family, ever since Sabo’s supposed death. even when he’s doing goofy things, what if he was just thinking of moves at that time as well? (it’s actually kind of a stretch but 🤷‍♀️), I just have these thoughts as Ace was dying in Luffy’s arms, He thought he was alone. He probably thought he was the only brother left alive. He might’ve even thought that Ace and Sabo left him- And at this point His Crew was probably in the back of his mind, cause hes been so enamored by Ace at this moment. And to think that he thought he was all alone and the only one left breaks my heart. Anyway just out of pure curiosity, Do you know of any crack and crazy fan theories in one piece?
@phoenixtempleeviltruth8074
@phoenixtempleeviltruth8074 Год назад
Omori shirt?!?? Love it
@danilorossetto
@danilorossetto Год назад
#AJPiece Oda criticizes "treating people differently based on their class". That is not capitalism though, this happens in every system ever. You are associanting this with capitalism probably because we live in a mostly capitalistic society and capitalism does nothing to stop that, but even communist countries having an ingroup that eats well and is above the law while normal population starves is an example of what he criticizes. This holds true even in monarchies, King Cobra and Vivi in Alabasta is ok, Wapol is not. To me the biggest example of Oda not being anti-capitalism (aside from the obvious hypocrisy that it would entail) is Kaya in Syrup Village, she was born rich and lived with money her parents gave to her as inheritance and she was put in a good light because she threats other people well and is even using her money to learn medicine to be able to help more people more efficiently, she being able to get even richer while doing that is not criticized.
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
(I posted this in the pinned comment as well) After reading some comments, I've decided to remove the line from the video where I say "Oda doesn't like capitalism." While I hold strong to the idea that One Piece undoubtedly critiques it and in particular the trickling bi-products of it to an extent, I realize that I should not have offhandedly dropped that comment without expanding on it and acknowledging the nuance of the topic. So I have cut it out. The video is still processing but once its done, that part will be removed. Thank you to everyone who pointed that out without being rude.
@UseTheLess00
@UseTheLess00 Год назад
Those onion ninjas were working extra hours dutring this video
@hotfart
@hotfart Год назад
those words that Shanks says has helped me over the last few years. Its the best quote in any piece of media i have ever read.
@LucasSantana-ws8po
@LucasSantana-ws8po Год назад
What he says at 46:00 after the last chapters about SPOILER Luffy's dream SPOILER its juts WOW HE GOT THAT SHIT
@thaepicjolteon
@thaepicjolteon Год назад
IM GONNNA!!!… *wave splash*
@a3-radio
@a3-radio Год назад
#AJPiece thoughts in Shanks finding out Ace was the son of Roger? It is my personal theory that shanks was looking for Ace in the eastblue when he met Luffy and that he decided to go to marinefort to try and save Ace once Sengoku had announced who he was, unfortunately arriving too late for Ace
@ramenpower8097
@ramenpower8097 Год назад
PEAK
@pits7035
@pits7035 Год назад
Y no comments Checks the minute posted 17 secs ago🎉
@venomdragonacid4864
@venomdragonacid4864 Год назад
#AJPiece I don't believe Oda is inherently fully against capitalism. The power of money is a very common reoccurring theme throughout the series. Oddly enough, many people forget this, but the Straw Hat Crew is broke for almost the entire series. They always lose their money in ridiculous ways to go back to being broke the next arc, and yet this never dissuades them from pursuing/progressing their dreams. I love the reoccurring idea of not needing wealth in order to pursue your dreams. Later arcs showcases the idea/power of money and capitalism with all of its drawbacks and bright sides that I won't get into now due to spoiler territory. However to continue on the topic of money, Nami understands the innate power money has to influence other people and is always pursuing more money to safeguard for emergencies all because of her flashback. She very well understands that money to some people is the only language they will speak and it can indeed be used to help/save someone. This sort of brings about 2 sad moments with Nami however with both times they did have money- they still didnt have enough to save their friends- which parallels Nami's backstory with Bellemere. In Water 7, money was not the issue, and it was all meaningless to save the Merry, and the other time they still didnt have enough of it to save Camie in the slave auction. However I still believe they would not have been able to save Camie due to the true thing Oda hates and showcases in Luffy's flashback: Aristocracy. Aristocracy brings about a caste system to separate and limit/controls everything lower in status. It is a systemic form of restriction, for both the nobles as shown with Sabo, as well as with the commonfolk and peasants. This is easily conveyed through even the design of the Goa Kingdom having different districts for each status class are all separated with giant guarded walls, limiting interactions between the different groups. Dadan's explains this concept to Ace and Luffy with her speech after Sabo's death (maybe paraphrasing a bit): "What can you do? They will just kill you! You'll die and people will forget you by tomorrow! You are just a nameless kid! Sabo was killed by this country, by this world!" The reason Sabo was killed and not avenged was because the person who killed him held an untouchable status that nobody could go up against. This is a major character changing moment for Luffy and makes him one of my favorite MC's in any shounen because he never sees people as their status, he sees people as who they are. This makes Luffy helping royalty to defeat a 7 warlord, Luffy helping the common people to defeat a god, save a friend from a government organization, casually talking to the strongest man in the world, or even save a "sub-human" species from the highest born noble so much more impactful. Luffy (almost) completely ignores one's status while either helping or beating them. As a side note not relating to all of this, but the idea of Luffy's greatest fear is being alone is super heartbreaking in hindsight and I believe that Luffy's flashback is one of the more impactful backstories in terms of developing a character. Sorry for the long analysis and I can't wait for you thoughts on some of these future arcs
@aikawarazuchan5947
@aikawarazuchan5947 Год назад
I knew going into the series what happened to Ace and I never thought it would affect me like it did. I cried so hard I popped blood vessels in my eyes... Because I lost my older (step) brother in an unfair way when I was close to that age and I reacted similar to Luffy, I had been holding onto that pain for nearly a decade, lashing out, scaring everyone away and never able to move past it. One Piece ripped the scabs off those wounds and the pain was incredible but Jinbe's words echo in my head every day... Man, I wish someone in real life had snatched me up, shook me and said those words to me such a long time ago... I wish I had read One Piece sooner. ❤️‍🩹 It really did change my whole life.
@universanity9295
@universanity9295 Год назад
Just gonna he off topic here but wtih you mentioning All Time Top 10 Literary Works, what are you're list of Top 10 currently? Wheel of Time? Crippled God? Jojo? HxH? Is One Piece on it yet?
@Aleczandxr
@Aleczandxr Год назад
You can check my full top 100 fiction list (slightly outdated) by typing !top100 into my Twitch chat.
@universanity9295
@universanity9295 Год назад
@@Aleczandxr okay! Thanks, i'll drop by!
@MisfitMikey
@MisfitMikey Год назад
Sabo didn’t even make honourable mentions?
@edwardward4347
@edwardward4347 Год назад
#AJPicec In the stream you said that the whole thing with Brook as/after he bets Zeo was raw, up until the last line of his poem. Which made my food themed mind think of two things, Blue Steak and Ceviche. Because, you know, it’s not raw but it’s not quite cooked either
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