@@KraylebStudios low quality content blizzard shilling to the greatest degree average standarder type of opinion annoying personality clickbait content and I recall his wild content was just kinda ass anyways
I mean, at the end of the day, questlines are just quests with intermediate rewards. The problem isn't questlines in concept, but how unbalanced the rewards were
the issue is also the consistency of the questline decks. they can definitely brick draws but the questline decks are built around a card which you're guaranteed to have in your hand on turn 1, and that card will eventually put the win-con into your hand.
@@hylianpikachu37 I don't disagree, but it's identical to regular quests in that regard. I can understand if you also levee that argument against quests, but if you're fine with quests then questlines are similar in that regard. I think there is a way for questlines to be good, but their first iteration were such a shitshow that we'll likely never see them again (kinda like the inspire keyword, for example)
But if the reward isn't worth the time, then why would you build a questline deck? A lot of people felt the Scabbs reward was bad (it wasn't) but why would you want to play it when you can play another questline with a reward that ends the game immediately? It also didn't help that questline mini rewards helped towards the main reward, so lopsided main rewards actually get some support unlike previous quests printed before. I argue they're impossible to balance and in a game without much interaction, they're probably too strong in principle.
As someone who was on hiatus when stormwind released, I would’ve appreciated a bit more insight into why questlines were all so strong from an overall design standpoint, rather than just a blanket statement of “this one was busted here, this one was busted here, etc.” I think it could make for a more engaging discussion on the mechanic and open the avenue to discussion on how the design philosophy of them and similar cards could’ve been improved moving forward.
@@FlareHearthstone Once a video is going long already, I’d suggest leaning into that some and taking advantage of the longer runtime. I think the more gag-intensive videos like the football team one lend themselves to the shorter runtime a lot more, while you can get some interesting analysis of hearthstone and its design philosophies out of longer videos. That being said, though, I’m not a RU-vidr so I don’t have good insight or experience on what’s best for the channel so do what you think is best ^^
I'll give you a crash course on mainly wild history regarding these. The demon seed is currently being played and it's a very fast deck, even when it requires 30 damage to your hero total. Warlock just has a lot of self-damage, deck destruction and healing. Before the ban it required 10 damage or something. The mage one was only relevant in standard, where you played a no-minion mage package with lots of burn and draw. It wasn't too strong, but it was really polarising since plenty of decks couldn't do anything and because playing minions benefited the mage. DH one was good as well in standard, you just played card draw and the combo. In wild it's almost the only DH deck, although it isn't great because it currently doesn't have good ways to close the game other than big minions. The druid one was unplayable in standard and wild, until FoL dropped. The deck got lots of cards that generated attack, on top of naturally generating armour and cheating out the 8/4/6 early, shutting down aggro decks easily and killing people fast. The shaman one was good in standard. It was countered by mage but was solid enough to earn a few nerfs. In wild it's played in frog shaman depending on the meta. The priest one wasn't awful in standard, and it occasionally got some time to shine, but it definitely wasn't nearly as good as people though it would be. Never seen in wild. Paladin was garbage. Rogue got played in standard Hunter and warrior were really solid decks (specially the former) in wild, but eventually got nerfed out of relevance. Warrior did pirate stuff with some draw and burn, and the reward just sealed the deal. It stopped existing in sunken, when rogue became the better pirate deck. Hunter just had a lot of burn and a fast quest, and much like warlock you died the moment they got the reward, so your only option was to rush them. No idea how they performed in standard.
I mean it's pretty clear the way they're structured. Rewards 1 and 2 help you stabilize vs faster decks while also setting you up for the main reward. The main rewards all had something built in that would end the game on the next turn. All of that is done with a card you get on turn 1. On top of that, the quest requirements were all something the class wants to do anyway, so it wasn't difficult to build decks with multiple gameplans to take advantage of the questline's natural gains.
Well paladín questline got his time, when castle nathria comes, not on standart, but on wild, I remenber There was a really good deck by that time using prince renathal and a lot of dude cards that was really good, and the reason it was way better to odd paladin, is that you werent restricted to odd cards, so you can use the 2 mana spell that summon 2 dudes with taunt. Another thing was that you can complete the quest on turn 4 and play the permanent buff (yeap silences dosnt work) to youre dudes
Sorcerer’s Gambit may not be meta-relevant, but I’ve crafted a fully golden deck around it and Sif because it’s the most flavorful Mage archetype for me. Occasionally wins some games against board based opponents and with decent draw. I don’t like anything else Mage has to offer nowadays, especially in Wild.
I will be 100% I know quite literally 0% about nathria standard so I may have missed that meta, one of my least paying attention times to standard ever
This deck start playing after buff for gigant(7cost minion was big problem for prist, only one good card for 7 was mutanus) ang bordclears (8 mana instead 9) . By the way it was very good and fun deck, because priest use MINIONS instead 30 board clears like now
I wasn't playing the game when this expansion dropped but returned after the Demon Seed was banned in Wild. When it rotated, got nerfed and unbanned I played it for the first time and it was still looking very good. Shows just how much this questline alone was bad for the game, let alone some others... Can't imagine how strong it was when it was released.
It was so strong that you could build a deck full of disruptive counters and you'd still get run over. It beat Nerub'ar Weblord, Dirty Rat, Loatheb, and even secrets with absolute ease. It did not care. We got Theo a year later but that still wouldn't help in Wild since they could take the damage and drop Tamsin on the same turn.
My favorite card honestly might be Blindeye Sharpshooter. I adore Naga DH and the huge pop-off turns are truly bliss. The nerf hurt but it's still a blast to play. ❤
Yeah questlines are lame. I do like Quests generally as a concept though, I think that they should generally just replace your hero power on completion instead of, for example, giving you a 5 mana overstated minion with a “for the rest of the game” effect. Like if the mage questline’s reward was to replace your hero power with “gain +3 spell damage this turn” or if shaman’s questline reward was a new hero power with “your spells cast twice this turn”, I think that would be easier to balance around.
The issue is you just described the Saviors of Uldum bundle of quests. United in Stormwind wanted to differentiate itself from Saviors and Un'Goro, so it stuck to "rest of the game" effects as the reward. I'm not saying that was correct per se, but that was the intention.
as someone who fell off of hearthstone around rise of shadows and came back late into sunken city I dodged this period of hearthstone pretty well and I'm glad for it though considering my track record of loving decks everyone hates I might have been on the wrong side of history had I participated (mostly ramp druid and other decks that cheat out big minions my favourite deck of all time being proving grounds demon hunter after the march of the lich king miniset came out)
My favorite Hearthstone card is Mr Mukla! During the Festival of Legends I was really into Hearthstone and I played it a lot and I got Mr Mukla in golden. I love his artwork and his style and I've always been a fan of folk songs too! It's a super powerful card that can really pressure opponents.
I've been saying this about quests before questlines were a thing. You can never make them too strong or they make the game stale. The idea of questlines was to make the binary nature of quests be easier to tolerate but also made it easier to get the main reward online. And the main reward needs to be strong enough to be worth it or else you get awkward situations like with DH where they couldn't use the quest reward until they got Tony/Gaslight or Rogue where Scabbs was strong enough to end the game but not on the turn it comes down (Battlemaster), so people write it off as terrible.
Seek Guidance is my favorite card of all time btw Also I don't think questlines as an idea were horrible, just these cards were toxic and all happened to be questlines. I'd like to see them try it again.
Not gonna lie the demon seed was/is my favourite card in the game it's just nice to have a different deck and gameplan to your opponent like i will draw my deck and deal 30 damage to myself before i start winning the game. I played it in almost every warlock deck i played in standard just because it countered the curse package warlocks ran.
I play questline priest often in wild because i find it fun and ive played it so much i optimized the build. It honestly has high winrate. Its so underappreciated its insane. Playing vs aggro is 100% win because of the control tools you have. You win vs 100% of the control decks IF THEY DONT PLAY etc > steamcleaner. Combo decks are a problem but they are rare. Mill is insanely easy matchup. Secret mage is auto concede tho. Also i reached legend last expansion with questline CONTROL hunter.
I still don't fully understand why questline druid fell off Rake to 2 and Yogg nerf surely wasn't that bad Another guess is that amulet nerf made it so they can't get free 4/6 taunts anymore
TL;DR at high ranks the deck was a Shudderwock counter before yogh came around. After that fiasco Shudderwock wasn't the top dog anymore, so people stopped. For a less abridged version, QL Druid was played in high ranks to counter Shudderwock shaman, and in low ranks to counter Even Shaman and Pirate Rogue somewhat. Since it fared well against some of the most popular decks of the format people played the deck a lot. After a while Yogg came around and made all spell-heavh decks broken, which made the deck actually OP because it's only weakness (boards) was negated. After the Yogg nerf the deck lost a lot of popularity just because it had been nerfed. On top of that, Shudderwock stopped being as good and Aggro Shadow Priest got popular, which was a deck capable of preventing the deck from stacking armour and thus from locking the board. The deck might be playable now with Sing Along Buddy, but it's fall in popularity is so big that it could be broken and you still wouldn't see many people playing it
Questline Druid can be easily hard countered. I played two Oasis Ally in Secret Mage and they struggled to kill the Water Ele. Paladin with Divine Shield Taunt mechs were another hard counter.
It made demon hunter playable but to the extent that nothing else really is viable with the class and it will certainly never be that way any time soon if they keep making these random garbage designs for the class that are so neutered (or get neutered soon after) because of Standard. This is all very similar to Paladin but a tad more extreme, basically. Gotta crutch yourself to a few cards in some way or another.
@@FlareHearthstone It's tough, right? I only went through Un'Goro facing quests. Wasn't THAT bad, but I can only imagine Stormwind. I even caught a bit of Quest Pirate Warrior in Wild. Wasn't very fun, but then again, it was also an aggro deck. I wish quests would activate "before game starts" that were harder to achieve and had more interesting rewards. I don't like them as a win condition and how boring it makes the decks. I really wish they weren't "build arounds."
I played in 22 during barrens and UIS. I think we were actually pr'd at one point, not gonna disclose my college obv but in previous years before I joined we won and got 2nd in tespa
It's supposed to be loud also it's hard as fuck to get images for generated cards because the blizzard website sucks and I'm NOT downloading 40 webp files and converting them to pngs just for a bit more clarity when the cards are available online
Nerf demonseed to not work with fatigue please, its just so depressing and it feels terrible its just the same as OtW in general every wincon in this game should be able to fizzle but with quests is way worse cause they have it 100% of the times.
i will say seek guidance wasn't good but it saw consistent play until it rotated because people love control priest. it defined the deck as a one card win condition and to this day i don't the control priest players have recovered from the loss of it in standard.
people were really hard on questlines considering half of them werent remotely playable. another niche hearthstone youtuber who thinks united in stormwind is bad
What the fuck are you talking about Dh was good in both formats Hunter was literally dominating wild and ok in standard Mage was great in standard Paladin & priest sucked yeah Rogue was just straight up good in standard without being broken Shaman was broken as fuck in standard and still has use cases in wild Warlock was so ungodly broken it's unreal And warrior dominated wild ladder ESPECIALLY low ladder for a long ass time fym half weren't remotely playable????
i was a big UIS fan. just because quests are good in wild with tons of synergy doesnt give the right to judge them as overpowered for wild, because your first turn not being reliant on one drops is such a big format difference
@@thembosupremepizza1827A big UIS fan (are you a fan of bad products?) but you also didn't get how big of an impact the questlines (and the expansion) had to the game as a whole? Most of the good ones had to be changed in some way. The writing is on the wall, you know.
