So everything about this is appalling, but as an actual licensed therapist I think the fact that they had someone impersonate a therapist to deliberately gaslight these women is so unethical I lack the language to describe it. Profane maybe would be the word. I can't believe that's even legal.
have you seen unreal? it parodies the bachelor and is obviously fictionalized but it actually has some great (terrifying) moments showing the major ethical issues of these "therapists" employed by reality shows
Such a good comparison, it’s mean for the sake of seeing what happens. A forced tragedy just to see how it ends. Cruel for the curiosity and entertainment of it, nothing more.
At least unethical experiments (in theory) yield information that could (potentially) help someone someday. This has a 0% chance of helping anyone ever. Well, I guess maybe sadists would enjoy it.
I hate that the show tries to laugh at them and make them look stupid for believing it was Prince Harry. Some people like myself struggle to remember faces for whatever reason. If you showed me a picture of this guy and said it was Prince Harry, I would believe you. I don't keep up with British royalty. Especially with all the effort they put in to gaslight and manipulate these girls.
@@madmoblin Oh totally, the whole thing is really gross and emblematic of intimacy being considered something that is to be bought/sold/bartered/etc. And the more you exploit yourself “willingly” or “allow” someone else to exploit you, the greater the supposed return on investment is promised to be. Sunken cost fallacy on display at its finest in this show, so it’s like of course there’s a q&a/bikini section, otherwise people might just speak to each other candidly and honestly.
ugh poor Kelly...Seems like a really sweet girl whos had some really shitty things in her life, who thought she may have actually had a chance to marry the fucking Prince, change her life forever, have all the wonder and glamour of being in a literal royal family. I mean, considering most our political beliefs here, we all know the royal family thing is dumb and silly, but that's a hell of an opportunity for any of us. God that's brutal.
Kelley is as bad as the rest of the show…she was devious, lied to the other contestants, lied to the guy, and was pretty vile throughout the contest…as for the rest of them, d’ya think they are any better, being approached to ask if they want to take part in a show to marry a guy who ‘may be rich and famous’..
All those women act as if they were brainwashed from a young age that the best thing in life is "to find a good man and marry him" and for that they need to do anything to please that man. It is horrible. These women needed therapy even before the show to get rid of such conditioning
@@reneempx1729 finally someone realises she is an adult woman that should be responsible for her actions, not a "girl". Yeah, women in the show have been gaslighted by those terrible producers and actors, but they are still adult women, and everything else they did is on them
@@KateeAngel these are just regular people like you and me, probably struggling to pay rent and live in a system designed to keep us as cogs in a machine that extracts as much profit from us as possible. they are given a once in a lifetime opportunity to irreversibly change that, to escape the threat of poverty for themselves and several future generations of their family. To establish security for themselves and everyone they love from that point forward. marrying a prince isn't just finding a good man, it's completely life changing
It’s also important to remember that Harry’s reputation around this time…wouldn’t make this completely inconceivable to Americans with relatively minor knowledge of royalty, because he was seen as the ~party prince~ and the black sheep, trying to shed or escape from his royalty. No royal would be able to do anything like this, but I can understand it feeling possible. I do feel kinda bad for Kelly, her heart really seemed to be in it!
I also think her perspective was probably like “in the chance this is even possibly true I need to give 200% to it” which is valid. I would also air on the side of caution there just in case it was actually a prince
The big question I’m left with (maybe weirdly) is why they didn’t just have him pose as some random Duke or other aristocrat? Dukes in England have a ton of money and land usually, the highest status in the aristocratic system besides the royal family, and often, famously, huge beautiful manor houses and estates or even castles. Marrying one could be seen as a pretty big deal. But there are also a ton of them and they aren’t generally widely known even to British public, let alone the American public. It’s also far more believable they would actually take part in something like this, non royal aristos have a lot more freedom and do some pretty, well, trashy things sometimes lol. They also wouldn’t have needed to lie to the women nearly as much- dukes generally don’t get bothered by paparazzi or fans when they’re out and don’t have as much protection either. I feel like the whole thing would’ve worked so much better if they did this rather than going for the big con that he was Harry. EDIT: Of course I know the reason it was Harry was simply marketing but I still feel the show as a whole would’ve been more successful if they did it this way lol even if it isn’t as attention grabbing
@@freydobaggins6252 If not hellbent on the UK, I'm pretty confident they could find an actual Hohenzollern or Bourbon who'd actually take part in something like this.
@@Alias_Anybody I mean, hell, they could definitely find a UK aristo who would too lmao. I mean if they wanted to keep the deception aspect of the premise but not have it be quite so over ambitious/ egregious? Tell them he’s the Duke of Northampton and he owns Arundel Castle or something. And then just keep them away from any copies of Debrett’s, which should be easy enough lol
@@freydobaggins6252 I think you basically described _Joe Millionaire._ No idea which one was first, but I wouldn't be surprised for a moment if one had some inspiration from the other.
This whole show reminds me of a certain prank, where a bunch of guys thought it would be hilarious to trick their financially struggling friend into thinking that he won big in "Publishers Clearing House". The guy was already at a low point, he didn't have a job, he was in debt, his mom wasn't doing so well, and something like this would have been a god given miracle. His friends brought in hired actors, a camera crew, and a big check, just to sell the prank. He actually believed it, and thought that all his prayers were answered... until his friends came in and laughed at his misfortune. I honestly don't think there's a jury in the world that would convict him for beating his friends to death over that ordeal.
So his friends were clearly rich to be able to afford an entire cast and crew, right? And they didn't think about maybe using that wealth to help their "friend" in any real way?
I decided to look it up and it was even worse than I thought it would be. One of his friends stated that he still found "humour in the situation" after witnessing his friend crying and screaming at them for what they did to him. They also had to go into the room to check on him because they were afraid he would "do something to himself" and found him crying in his closet. He also talked at the end about he felt like he was always the "ass of the joke". it was horrible.
"When you've been told to shut up and play the game, what is the point of talking about it? Nobody cares, and so you stop caring too." Absolutely brilliant. It's exactly how systems stay in place.
I hate how we do this to people, especially women. Theoretically, we like people who are sweet, trusting, sincere, and generous with their love, and we hate when people abuse their trust and generosity. But somehow people do this mental backflip that we have to punish people that are this innocent... in order to prevent them from being abused, I guess? But we are effectively just joining their abusers by doing this. Kelley is a treasure and the show just dunks on her because it's easy.
The premise seems to have been “it’s their fault for believing it was him, even though we told them it was over and over, actively manipulated them in every way and called them crazy if they doubted it. Clearly they’re so stupid they deserve to be tricked”
@@RubyBlueUwU no wonder people start to become hostile when honest trusting people get used and abused for their naiveté. I would much rather live in a world where people are little dumb and naive rather than in a world where people have to be paranoidly wary about other people's intentions.
@@otto_jk well said. I try to press the importance of not letting past pain, abuse, manipulation, whatever, let you stop from reaching out to love and help anyone who needs it without prejudice. Its a real shame to see everyone living their lives so paranoid and distrustful of others. I mean, maybe dont spend your money on Google Play cards to pay the guy "from microsoft" on the phone lmao but its an awfully tiresome way to live always thinking people are out to get you. Sure some might be, but most people are just out there living their life too 🤷
@@otto_jk absolutely! People get demonised for being naive and it sucks, it’s actually pretty incredible and brave to have faith in people to be truthful
Turns out Kelley is from my hometown, Mobile, AL (I didn't know her, lol). I don't know how she feels about it, but I was willing to do ANYTHING to get out of Alabama. The Cinderella fantasy being ripped away from her stings that much more for me, even if she says she enjoyed her time on the show.
I didn't know she was from Mobile. I had friends there (like three) who HATED it and were so desperate to get out that one begged to live with me in my state. I'm not sure how horrible it actually is there, but that fact somehow hits me emotionally. What they did to Kelley (and all the women involved, really) is abysmal and I can't believe someone approved this schlock.
@@Lybrel Because Alabama fucking sucks and it's hard to escape. I joined the Navy to get out of Alabama. I am projecting my feelings onto her, sure, for all I know she loves it, but still. It's just an emotional reaction, it's not that deep.
I mean tbf that's pretty much how the royals live like obviously they go to events with huge amounts of people but like when they are in mansions it is just them and their staff
This show was so gross. It's even worse now that I'm older, knowing that the oldest contestant was only 26. It's just cruel. But people justified it because "they're all gold diggers."
Well, it's just a bit more problematic than the regular Bachelor... the lying about the eponymous bachelor is just a bit less in regular bachelor, that's all
@TheDarkerKnight so. Okay.. Here you are again. Let's see.. Do you genuinely not understand why it's gross? Or are you just trolling.. Considering you're commenting on a 20 min video Joel made that did a pretty good job at describing the show..And therefore showing why its disgusting..
(In my opinion) these kinds of Bachelor-type shows are very weird and uncomfortable already, but this is a kind of mass psychological weapon designed to spread misanthropy. I haven't felt this queasy since Tiger King
Hahaha. Very true, I've been a misanthrope since a long time without even reality shows, just seeing how humans act in our daily lives, is enough for me.
Kelly… is the real tragedy. She really fell in love with the idea of him, which is really terrifying. If she lasted further and fully fell into the belief, she really would have been traumatized.
I honestly feel like she is already. All of them. Even if they didnt believe it fully, the cult treatment is enough to make you doubt your surroundings for a while
This reminds me of the premise of a couple YA novels I've read, basically a dystopia where teenaged girls compete to marry a prince and it's televised. In those books it's a real prince, but the reality show aspects still stand. All of those stories tend to make it look fun and glamorous with high school-esque drama, but when I saw that premise being used in an actual reality show, I realized those YA novels are overlooking the aspects of isolation, control and surveillance.
i feel kind of annoyed those 'dystopia' authors were unable to understand that they had created such a powerfully awful dystopia and therefore failed to use 'dystopia' to make real and interesting critiques, which is what the genre is basically for! honestly so much media that includes royalty and romance is often very messed up (partly because the real life royal systems they're based on are also awful) and I've never seen an author give it the weight of horror it deserves.
I mean I assume you’re talking about “The Selection” which I haven’t read in about decade. Could be wrong but I thought the book did address some of the weirdness of being on a dating reality show. The main character always seemed uncomfortable with that aspect and didn’t want her relationship built on “I won the game show!” Not perfect by any means but at least she wasn’t giddy to become TV livestock. If I’m correct she even came onto the show never expecting to win him over and thought she’d just go back home and marry her best friend whom she preferred at the beginning anyways. Also you can tell I was a fan in middle school because Eadlyn is used in just about every handle I have lol
I’ve listened to the audiobooks of The Selection several times, and I would argue they definitely did mention the isolation and manipulation a few times. But the books were more about the drama and whatnot going on between the contestants.
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle There can be a difference between mentioning bad aspects of a situation and the way the overall framing of a story makes that situation appear as a whole. I will admit I haven't read those books so won't comment on them directly. But in general there is a tendency for the writers of media to create stories that are intended to be pointing out the harm of a situation, but then make the aesthetics of the situation appear so compelling, glamorous, cool or exciting that the underlying message is lost on many people. The Joker is one of the biggest examples of this. He is fundamentally a tragically sad and lonely man, a man failed by his world and who as a result hurts himself and everyone around him. But he is often portrayed in the stories he appears in as soo cool and witty and badass that he's now seen as a role model by many young men. If you want your story to demonstrate why something is bad you have to show it, not just tell it.
That premise kind of reminds me of the idea in a Doctor Who episode where it was a big brother type show and each time people would vote who stayed in the house the one that got booted out would get literally laser fried out of existence. But in that episode they do go over how abhorrent and despicable the show is.
1. Purposefully disappointing people 2. Taking credit from others 3. Blaming innocents 4. Not keeping promises 5. Objectification of others (not just sexually but the Kantian notion of treating people as means and not ends) Idk other commenters can invent the other 2
More like giving them a credit card with unlimited credit limit, telling them it's for them to do whatever they want with no strings and the in the end saying that it was all for show and they have to pay it all back
@@KateeAngel seems like you just copied the "girls" take from a top comment (in which it makes sense since it's referring particularly to how they say it in the show) but it really does not apply to the way sigh824 wrote it... sounds kinda off, and almost implies that one should't feel bad or that it would be their fault if they were children and not adult women.
@@jzocchio holy shit its even worse. The only reason she wants to affirm they are "women" isnt to recognize them as women, its to blame them as adult women for bringing this on themselves
Won't say much, but as someone whos had an ex who gaslight me and manipulated me the whole relationship, this is the most vile thing I have ever seen. I'm only 6 minutes in and not sure if I can stomach the rest. Nothing on your part Big Joel, your vids are always great, its just the idea of basing a whole show on the premise of literally gaslighting people has to be the worst thing I've heard in awhile. People who concepted this show are actual monsters.
I'm quite an uncompassionate person who often feels strong schadenfreude towards other people but just the knowledge of this show existing has made even a Stoneheart like me deeply disgusted, unnerved and horrified. Even if these poor women were dumb or gullible or lacking in critical thought they didn't deserve to be treated like this just to for the audiences entertainment. And I btw don't know who would be entertained by something so sleezy and horrible.
Gaslighting really is the only word for it. A lie of omission is till a lie. Like a lot of reality TV makes fun of people, but there's something really cruel about how this show is making a fool out of these women. Like it's supposed to be even funnier that they're not in on the joke. At least on the X Factor if you laugh at people you have to do it in their face.
I feel like based on their actions most of the girls probably knew this scenario was too good to be true. Joking around, having a good time, basically treating it as if it was the Bachelor. You could probably shut off your mind and just enjoy this as generic garbage reality TV with a wacky gimmick... And then you see Kelley and just hearing the lines you've shown in the video is honestly heartbreaking
Kelley is naïve but it's not bad being a little dowy eyed. It's morally reprehensible how these showrunners treated this woman, they gaslighted her and then made fun of her being gullible because of their gaslighting, it's truly psychopathic.
@@NaomiIsSoAwesome98 Regardless of that, I still think it's awful how these TV people thought trying to manipulate a group of people into believing this Prince Harry lie for entertainment was completely okay. They isolated them, brought fake therapists in that told them not to question whether it was actually Harry or not, had fake paparazzi, and a security detail. The fact they even went that far to try to make a show that basically went, "Look at these dummies, they think this is actually Prince Harry, so stupid". The whole concept of the show itself is awful.
@@NaomiIsSoAwesome98 The video doesn't say they're traumatized, Joel literally says that the girls largely ended up unaffected by it in their relationships with the producers and the lookalike guy, but what the show did was textbook gaslighting, specifically the fake therapist telling the contestants that they need to trust that this is Harry.
The fact that they brought in someone Who presented themselves as a licensed therapist to further gaslight and manipulate these women is so incredibly vile.
It's so bizarre to me that somebody pitched the idea of psychologically abusing multiple women to such a degree that they might not ever be able to trust a man again, and then that idea actually became a reality show.
My wife compelled me to watch this show back when it aired. As I recall, it was so unpopular it was forced off the air after a few episodes, but the remainder of the season was available to watch online. Yeah, it was bad, in every sense of the word.
@@otto_jk Yeah I remember it only being on TV for a minute. My grandma would watch it and we’d make fun of the girls a bit which is sad but she also seemed to realize the situation and how mean it was to trick someone like hat, especially Kelley. I don’t think we were surprised it got cancelled and in retrospect it’s pretty easy to see its faults now.
This video gave me an excellent idea for a reality show. So you start with the exact same premise, a bachelor knockoff where the main guy is pretending to be some celebrity. But the twist is that all the contestants except for one are ALSO actors, and they actually know that the guy isn’t who he’s pretending to be- their job is to push him as far as possible to do absurd and entertaining things to keep the secret while still keeping the last contestant, the one who doesn’t know, in the dark. Except the OTHER twist is that the last contestant is actually one of the show runners, and is masterminding the whole game. She uses her knowledge and position to push both the man and the other contestants to absurd lengths to keep what they each THINK is the true nature of the show secret from her. Later on in the season you could bring on one of the executives behind the show (secretly another actor, of course) to make everyone except the last contestant (who’s privy to all the secrets, being the mastermind) paranoid that they’ll get in trouble if their “secret” gets out, and to encourage them all to do ridiculous things for “ratings” or some other corporate jargon. Really the goal here is to add as many layers of intrigue and secrecy as possible, until it becomes less unethical and more confusing and surreal. I fully believe this would be the greatest reality show ever created.
throwing more layers into it probably wouldn't do anything. like it's already a big lie to begin with. if you put more lies into it then it becomes desensitizing and redundant. your idea would probably work better as a fully scripted show, or just as a skit.
I'm now reminded of one show that did the whole mind game angle well, the Joe Schmo Show, where the whole joke was that, of the several contestants on what was framed as a Survivor knockoff, only one, the titualar Joe, or, rather, Matt Kennedy Gould, was actually a contestant, with all the others being paid actors with a script masquerading as various stereotypical reality show archetypes (the party girl, the jackass, the stereotypical camp gay dude, ETC). The one rule being that, if Matt ever directly asked any of them the question "are you an actor", they had to say yes. Lots of emphasis is placed on how, as the actors hanged out with Matt, he turned out to be a really good guy and they gradually starting actually bonding with him despite the facade. And, despite it all, they managed to hold out for the full season before Matt finally put the pieces together.
Great video about this disgusting show. Just want to say, I hate grown women being referred to as "girls." Certainly not the worst thing done by this show, just always weirds me out and reminds me of how demeaning these shows tend to be towards women all the way from extreme gaslighting to the tiny, normalized ways of talking about adult women like they are just dumb, silly little kids
I had an old boss who used to refer to the women in the office as "the girls" and it never sat right with me. Always made me feel like he was instantly making them second class citizens upon even mentioning them
I often sit in fear at the thought of how easy it seems to gaslight someone into a cult. We all like to think that we're better and we wouldn't fall for it but crap like this video shows me that that isn't the case.
I feel like there’s a whole lot of ground between “It’s easier than we imagine to be gaslit into a cult, and “Every one of us is just as capable of falling victim to this.” And based on an analysis of a reality television show. No, we’re not all just as capable of being gaslit into a cult.
Not as much of a ground as you'd think, coming from a former cult member.(Mormons) The bite model of authoritarian control is a great thing to familiarize yourself with, and while there's all sorts of things on there that are beyond the pale, there's other things that seem innocuous or understandable by themselves, like harmless solvents without the reagent. Yes, if your watching bread tube, or bread tube adjacent stuff your not the target audience, but I have family members still in the cult, and a family member who says things reminiscent of far right historical figures. This stuff is very much real, and affects loved ones.
You’d think a (semi) professional Prince Harry impersonator would make sure to know about Prince Harry’s past, personal life, etc, especially before going on a show like this
I’m sure he knew those things but can you imagine the backlash he would’ve gotten if he had lie about, say princess Diana being his mother and dying in a car accident while he was a child. The British public would have destroyed him.
@@artemiswolf4508agreed lol. That's like one of the least morally reprehensible things he's done. Imagine sitting there and actually acting like someone's else' trauma is yours to borrow for an elaborate joke.
"Normally they would be out of my league." This is what happens when people live in a society where their self worth is tied to their wealth and career.
Yes, the concept of "Out of my league" is a weird concept like there are so many reasons people are attracted to eachother and the fake Harry isn't even an ugly guy.
@@otto_jk Yeah, it's almost like, and this is just a little theory of mine, like maybe, just maybe, attraction is subjective. Again, just a theory of mine.
It's also tied to your outward appearance! Especially if you're a woman. Women are expected to present unrealistic beauty standards that requires more effort and maintenance than their male counterparts.
Every day, real life reality shows get closer to recreating the onion's s3x house. The fake therapist, the strange self awareness: the world is ready. The onion oracle has spoken and who are we to deny it?
I could actually feel my mind slowly parse the fact that all of this was, in fact, real and not a fully scripted TV series. I'm still not entirely accepting the existence of a program where the entire premise is "let's Truman Show a bunch of women into thinking some rando is actually British royalty". Doing this sort of stuff even for psychological research would already be considered unethical and illegal, while these guys are literally just doing it as 'entertainment'. Mind boggling.
@@shubhod9569 Actually, at the very least the fake therapist part completely violates the APA ethics code in several areas, let me present them! From Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct as defined by the APA Section 3: Human Relations --> Section 3.04 Avoiding Harm Psychologists do not participate in, facilitate, assist, or otherwise engage in torture, defined as any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person, or in any other cruel, inhuman, or degrading behavior that violates 3.04(a) (this whole show can be seen as a form of mental torture to the contestants) --> Section 3.05 Multiple Relationships A multiple relationship occurs when a psychologist is in a professional role with a person and (1) at the same time is in another role with the same person, (2) at the same time is in a relationship with a person closely associated with or related to the person with whom the psychologist has the professional relationship, or (3) promises to enter into another relationship in the future with the person or a person closely associated with or related to the person. (with the therapist acting as a therapist and a producer and as such cannot provide unbiased help and likely does not want to provide actual help) --> Section 3.06 Conflict of Interest Psychologists refrain from taking on a professional role when personal, scientific, professional, legal, financial, or other interests or relationships could reasonably be expected to (1) impair their objectivity, competence, or effectiveness in performing their functions as psychologists or (2) expose the person or organization with whom the professional relationship exists to harm or exploitation. --> Section 3.08 Exploitative Relationships Psychologists do not exploit persons over whom they have supervisory, evaluative or other authority such as clients/patients, students, supervisees, research participants, and employees. --> Section 3.10 Informed Consent When psychologists conduct research or provide assessment, therapy, counseling, or consulting services in person or via electronic transmission or other forms of communication, they obtain the informed consent of the individual or individuals using language that is reasonably understandable to that person or persons except when conducting such activities without consent is mandated by law or governmental regulation or as otherwise provided in this Ethics Code. Section 4: Privacy and Confidentiality --> Section 4.01 Maintaining Confidentiality Psychologists have a primary obligation and take reasonable precautions to protect confidential information obtained through or stored in any medium, recognizing that the extent and limits of confidentiality may be regulated by law or established by institutional rules or professional or scientific relationship. Section 5: Advertising and Other Public Statements --> Section 5.06 In-Person Solicitation Psychologists do not engage, directly or through agents, in uninvited in-person solicitation of business from actual or potential therapy clients/patients or other persons who because of their particular circumstances are vulnerable to undue influence. However, this prohibition does not preclude (1) attempting to implement appropriate collateral contacts for the purpose of benefiting an already engaged therapy client/patient or (2) providing disaster or community outreach services. That is to say, this is what would be violated if this were an actual psychologist who also happened to be a producer and not some charlatan pretending to be one to further gaslight the contestants, which in and of itself is flat out unethical as it completely tramples over the concept of informed consent and only further reinforces the conflict of interest violation presented previously. However, if you have a counterpoint, I would be glad to hear it.
“Its hard to hate [the production team, Ryan Seacrest, Fox], isn’t it?” No, actually, I find it very difficult to not feel a deep disgust towards Seacrest and Fox.
As I processed the fact that, yes, this show genuinely existed, my mind slowly unravelled with horror. I blame you, Big Joel, for alerting me to this awful truth, which even now is seeping into my brain, unseating my reality at its base. I no longer know how to continue living in this world as I had done a mere hour ago, blissfully unaware. What meaning is there in anything, anymore? I don't know what to do with myself. I'm going to go into the corner and have a breakdown or something.
it should be, because this all on some set somewhere where everyone is on contract. it's not in public with random people. it's like an actor dressing up as a cop for a movie.
@@JewTube001 Except it's not, because in a movie, everyone on the set is aware that the "cop" is actually an actor. The line is crossed the moment you attempt to legitimately deceive someone, which is what they were doing in the show.
In the UK the title of "clinical psychologist" is legally protected. The titles of "counsellor", "psychotherapist", and "psychologist" are not legally protected and so anyone without qualification could legally call themselves those things. They cannot legally use the term "clinical psychologist" without also being registered with the appropriate professional institution (in this case the Health and Care Professions Council/ the HCPC).
Kelly is tricky. She has that whole innocence thing going on, so you wind up sympathetic for her on that basis, but then she does that thing in the video where she tattles to Harry about one of the other girls, and she actually does the same exact thing in the finale for even worse reasons. She has this total devotion to the lie, which is kinda pitiable, but that devotion has a dark side. You just know in your heart that she left the show and then started doing Q stuff or something.
It's insane to me what reality tv producers are allowed to do to their contestants. You can't even say this was what they signed up for when it was a ruse from the beginning.
This vid is just. Crushing. Halfway through I just started tearing up out of nowhere - nothing bc of anything particular but just because of the weight of the unfairness and cruelty of the whole thing. Thanks Big Joel.
I think it's less about Kelley liking him and more like "Oh shoot, she actually thinks she's going to be a royal with political power and I have no idea how she'd react when she finds out I'm not actually a prince."
The bikini part is creepy to me--I realize this happens at all beauty pageants, but stripping all of these women's clothes off for judging over who'd be the best (fake) wife? While they try to explain why they should be picked as a wife? That's weirder than a beauty pageant. Especially because it's not really for Matt. He doesn't care because he's not even the one doing the judging in terms of how the show picks its winners, and he's not going to be marrying any of them. It's not for the producers who are standing there, they don't care. And it's not really for the show's viewers either, because the contestants are not assigned to impress the viewers. So who is it for? IDK, it wouldn't be so creepy to me if it wasn't already such a controlling, manipulative environment, because on top of all of that, they bared these contestants' last vulnerability for the show. Taking away someone's clothes too when they're already being denied social contact, entertainment, privacy, choices, or outside access to the world seems too far.
These harem esque dating tv shows always felt a bit emotionally disgusting to me. And the reason for it is just that the whole competition aspect of it is very weird and also kinda mysogynistic I feel. I mean not to mention this also has gaslighting in it wich is disturbing. But aside from that this just feels so gross to me. Like some bastardization of what we imagine love should be. If I saw a man I dated kissing other girls I‘d be furious. And that‘s not only because I‘m monogamous, but also because it feels like an insult to the women. One guy dates like 15 girls and basically plays around in his harem while they desperately try to make themselves good enough for him to chose them. It‘s this horrible dynamic of making dating a competition. Putting your value against other women while the man you compete for is literally disrespecting all of you for playing harem and wanting all women for himself regardless of their feelings. It‘s just sickening to me to imagine a guy pretending to be in love with you aka the highest form of intimate relationship while also playing that game with 15 other women at the same time. The truth is that only you, the women are the ones actually trying to make a romantic connection. He‘s just watching it happen to him, endulging in the pleasure of having a group of women all desperately try to be the most worthy for him. He doesn‘t care about it the way you do. He‘s doing essentially polyamoury but you don‘t consent to it. Or rather you have to but it‘s one sided and you may be thrown out any day. It‘s deeply disgusting to me. I‘d want my partner to be my best friend, the one who deeply understands me, the one i can relate to on a deep level, a person i‘m sharing my most intimate moments with. But what these shows imply instead is that women are the ones supposed to be faithful to one man while he gets to be as unfaithful as he wants to. The woman has to be utterly passionate and present herself the best she can. Or else she‘d get ditched for another. And in this competitive scenario I fail to see how any woman could feel good about being intimate with a guy like that. Who doesn‘t respect your passion and your desire to be faithful as well as expecting him to be faithful too. Who doesn‘t care about you because he‘ll kiss all the others too and act all lovey dovey with them. That kind of thing doesn‘t feel genuine. It doesn‘t feel like the relationship I‘d want as a monogamous person. And the fact that it‘s this deeply sexist situation is just infuriating to watch. So I really can‘t understand how any monogamous woman could watch this and think it‘s romantic or fun to watch. To watch women desperately be competitive over a man. To stoop to a level before even the 50‘snin terms of gender roles and to be cool with a man so disrespectful to you. So disengenious and so careless. If women grow up with shows like this being taught through it that this is what love is. What companionship and dating is, It deeply saddens me.
@@takke9830 the monitisation of social interactions seems wrong imo. It's not just dating (which has been shown to be massively skewed in favour of extracting as much money from male users as possible). I've seen ads online from mental health services selling you the opportunity to "talk to somebody". There are ads offering mentoring servives to young people - for a fee of course. There was an ad on the Champions League final last week advertising WeAre8 which looks like they have the right intention but are simply playing by the same capitalists rules that dictate this toxic practice of monitising interaction. I don't know what the solution is but the problem appears to be pretty clear.
This why I wouldn’t be against a gay, lesbian, or bisexual (all contestants) “Bachelor.” It takes away that weird concept and leaves everyone’s options open BUT people don’t like that. They like weird competition to these things that makes them gross.
Giving the girls clues that he might be Harry instead of telling them directly is far more malicious than it seems. Because it's far more efficient to manipulate people into thinking that it was their idea instead of giving it directly. As people have a tendency into wanting to be right with their conclusions even if they seem to be wrong.
The opening to this video is an achievement. I'd never heard of the show, so BJ just cold-cocking us with the premise of this show is so appropriate for the horror we are about to receive.
I'm so glad people are discussing this show now, because I remember it from back in the day. Being, like, 12 or whatever and british the entire concept was crazy to me and I didn't give it much thought other than that, but it really is fucked up
I'm not finished watching this, but I just wanna say the worst part is that the people who watched this probably viewed the contestants as vain and greedy and dumb, without knowing everything that happened behind the scenes. I feel truly bad for them for having been put through this.
“When you’ve been told to shut up and play the game, what is the point in talking about it? Nobody cares, and so you stop caring too” That is… just terrifying. At face value, in the context of the show, and also about what that says about how we engage with current events. Like, I’m not a pessimist or a doomer in any way, quite the opposite actually, but that line, man… it’s just frightening in too real of a way
I'm a pessimist and a doomer and that line didn’t do anything to me, I was like "yepp". Welcome to how humanity fucks itself over out of compliance/convenience... :/
So, how was this reality show pitched to the girls before they went on? I was a little confused as to how much they knew/were lied to going in. Like, was the conceit "you're dating a guy who is famous"? Also, did they call him "Harry" in casual day-to-day conversation?
My exact thoughts lol like what did they think they were going in for? Who did they think they were seeing? It's still fucked up they were manipulated but im not understanding where the base-level of knowledge was here
It was sold to them as 'Dream Date', with little info besides it being a Bachelor-type show and they needed to go to England. Iirc they weren't allowed to know his name
I remember this show and I remember hearing about the fake therapist online and seeing a TORRENT of comments going “this is the first time I’ve seen gaslight used correctly on the Internet.” It would be funny if it weren’t so depressing, disgusting and manipulative. Those poor ladies.
Ryan Seacrest has really made his entire life about trashy reality shows what a legacy to leave behind tricking women and giving the kardashians a platform to scam everyone with skinny teas and lollipops and whatnot for decades.
Dude, your videos are so comforting. Often I see people laugh at stuff like this on tv and I wonder if I'm insane for thinking these shows are horrible nightmares, but you're out here explaining how the nightmare works.
I watched this show late last year with a few friends and I'm completely floored that someone else cares enough about it to make a video on it. Thank you for completely understanding why this show is appalling and why me and my friends all audibly gasped when the phony butler confirmed the girls suspicions.
This is a great vid but I somewhat disagree with the conclusion re there being no one for these women to be angry at. The answer is clearly, the producers! They are individuals who hold the cards and run the show in any sort of reality programming, the equivalent of a show runner for scripted television. They’re not a faceless system, they are active agents with agendas, who independently did horrible things (eg the one who posed as a therapist). It’s obviously not good enough to say oh that’s just their job they’re part of a system, what the producers were doing themselves was wildly unethical and there is no reason they shouldn’t have realised that and acted to stop it. The one who impersonated a therapist in particular could have and probably should have faced personal legal consequences for what they did. I think the reasons that if any of them were outraged, they kept that private, and the reason they didn’t pursue legal recourse are more human and understandable. Seeking out a lawyer and pursuing a settlement for anything is a pain, even if the case is a slam dunk. It’s harder when the producers had at least one participant on their side working with them after the show ended, who would quite possibly be prepared to counter anything any claimant said, to say oh it wasn’t that bad, we weren’t really deceived, that didn’t happen. Also, as you covered very well, the show was designed and edited to mock these women, to embarrass them, make them seem gullible. I think it’s understandable if they simply wanted to move on with their lives afterwards and in some cases, see what more they stood to gain by acting as though they were in on the joke (ie Kimberly). It’s depressing that that’s how things work but I this is how I would frame it.
It's only a pain to hire lawyers..... When your poor. When your rich, they literally hand you their card, tell you their personal number, set up the appointment for you, and coordinate with your staff to literally chauffeur you back and forth. So much of our system is deliberately set up to protect the rich, and hurt the poor, that sometimes it boggles my mind that this was the LESS servile option, compared to what our ancestors had to go through.
@@corgiw7281 Because monarchies deify a class of otherwise uninspired and mediocre people and bestow them with social power over people that is rife for abuse, arguably even abuse in itself. Also, aren't we supposed to be equal under democracies? What's less fucking egalaitarian than noble birthright?
every episode its just him hiding himself from local law enforcement, everytime he just hires a makeup artist to make him look like JP and with every woman he just notes and gauges how far he can get away with identity theft while progressing his relationship with the woman.
I had never heard of this before but this is downright cruel and hateful. Manipulating people (who, for all we know, may have been going through some tough times) into thinking they've essentially won the lottery and then casually pulling the rug from under them for cheap laughs... goddamn that's gross.
Your videos are saturated, absolutely dripping with empathy Joel. That’s what sets you apart ❤️ Don’t know too many other lefty channels who could (or would even attempt) make me feel empathy for a monarch and reality show characters
Yeah, holy shit in hindsight this is cruel enough to warrant serious civil or even criminal prosecution. It’s really sickening and kind of despotic how so much of reality television relies on often life ruining schadenfreude
Kelly is definitely the most tragic character here, but I also think they're editing Matt's lines to maybe sound a bit less sad. There's some lines that slip through that I think show a huge amount of resentment aimed at the show and self-resentment from him.
Fantastic video, I love how you talk about so many broader things than this show specifically without blatantly saying it. I love how your videos encourage and guide the viewer to think, as opposed to just laying out what opinions they're supposed to have and why.
I remember watching this show when I was a kid. I'm not from England or a english speaking country so I wasn't familiar with the royal family (other than hearing their names here and then) and at first I fully believed him to be the real guy.
Can I add something too? It's actually something that high-stress/excitatory situations can make someone feel more kinship. There's a lot of people that use this to get into people's good graces. It's not just about the "romance" but literally that people can be basic bees. I see a lot of people look at such random connections and go "wow, that's ridiculous and it makes no sense why a bond was formed"...but if you're having a very exciting, loaded experience, when you're in the midst of it, it makes everything, everyone more enticing and sometimes you'll find your entire being accommodating the circumstances and systems around you. Then, the rationalizations come. I wish I could sometimes laugh at morbid stuff like this show, but as someone quite gullible myself, it's scary more than anything.
It makes sense that none of the contestants would admit to feeling hurt or shamed afterward... doing so would be admitting that they were taken in, or that they'd had the audacity to hope/believe they deserved a fairy tale. The more deeply they feel such disappointment, the more terrible to reveal that disappointment. That's how pranksters justify being cruel: the victim fake-laughs in the end, so it couldn't have been too bad. Gross.
I agree. The woman who said how she was essentially gaslit into believing it in the end, that's the reality for most of these women. Why admit it, it's over, you signed a contract, you got duped. Admitting it would just further your deep humiliation. If you made a big deal out of it, said it was monstrous, you'd be subtly accusing everyone who watched the show of being monsters for enjoying it. Which would be met with all the sympathy of a r*pist who came from an abusive home.
I really like how uncanny and frightening this video feels. It reminds me of the uncanny feeling I had when watching your first video on The Room. I think it was a solid choice to make this video so serious. I think it really adds to the uncomfortable cult-like feeling.
while i disagree with the premise that systems aren't a legitimate or worthy target of anger, i appreciate the analysis of how cult behavior can form in real time! was also glad to see joel show his face at the end tho, even if it was just for the advert. as someone who's been shamed for my facial hair styles before i felt sad to see him sound somewhat self-conscious about his new look on twitter; i think his facecam narration can really add personality to his video essays, regardless of appearance. i hope i'm not overreading or overanalyzing that, but i'd just also hope to encourage people (not just joel) to embrace hair styles they might not be used to, even if it brings negative feelings or unnecessary judgey-ness from others. big joel is our biggest joel, n im always glad to see him exploring these topics while embracing himself :)
@@timothymclean that's fair! i feel like obviously they're much harder to "punish" or otherwise react to in any meaningful way without the identity of like an individual has w their face, i think i'm just drawing on my own experience feeling hate/disgust toward the incentives and arbitrary reasoning people come up w to justify doing just the worst things
I saw his face and thought "well the royals aren't that amazing but isn't prince harry more handsome than this guy?" but I don't blame the girls for believing the lie, the show was insane.
If anyone is worried about Kelli, I’m happy to report she’s doing ok, she’s in a great if moderately successful rock band called Skating Polly and they’re recording their new album right now.
I would love to see your take on season 1 of the Joe Schmo Show. It's a reality show where there is only one contestant and everyone else are actors. If they can convince him all the way to the season finale, everyone wins money. In the first season, the guy is super wholesome and tries to play as fair as possible and avoid the drama the group creates around him. I've heard that every other season failed fairly quickly.
Between this, "Toddlers in Tiaras" and "The Swan", I'm thoroughly disgusted by how women are treated in media, and how it affects how society treats them in turn.
I gotta say, Big Joel always has the best takes on a variety of interesting topics. Each of the videos seems thought out and well-informed, and it always leaves me with the curiosity to want to know more and to do my own research on the topic. It's easy enough to look at something horrible and say how horrible it is, but this absolute Chad always goes the extra mile to present a developed and conscientious take on the subject. Love this channel.
I love the channel too and enjoy listening to big Joel’s takes but I gotta disagree on his choosing “interesting topics”…he chooses some terrible topics and makes them interesting. If you told me I’d enjoy watching a video about a fake prince harry dating show or any of the multitude of terrible movies he breaks down, but didn’t tell me it was a big Joel video, I’d tell you that you are crazy. I actually don’t mind that he chooses terrible topics that I don’t give a crap about, because he’s that good, but I certainly wish he’d choose actual interesting topics more regularly 😂
@@Eric_Garrison 😅 that's fair honestly. I am curious though-- in your opinion, what do you think would be a more interesting topic for Big Joel to make a video about?
this is a fantastic piece of media critique and I appreciate your empathy, attention to detail, and genuine compassion for the people on this show. that said, I wish I never knew this existed.
ever since I first learned about this show I randomly think about it like twice a month. I don’t want to think about it but it lives rent-free in my head.
