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A Relativistic Theory of Consciousness 

Carlos Farias
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Nir Lahav is a physicist from Bar-Ilan University working on network theory, nonlinear dynamics, and chaos theory with applications for neuroscience. Collaborating with Zachariah Neemeh, his 2022 paper was chosen as one of the most influential articles of the year by Neuroscience News. We will discuss that paper, titled "A Relativistic Theory of Consciousness." And here is the link to the crowdfunding for Nir's research in Cambridge: gofund.me/b37c00d5
Find the full paper here:
www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
0:48 Nir's early interest in physics & search for gravity
3:05 Interdisciplinary with neuroscience
6:00 Overview of Lahav & Neemeh's paper, "A Relativistic Theory of Consciousness"
7:55 How does your theory utilize Einstein & Galileo's Relativity?
15:55 Defining the relativistic principle
19:35 Acceleration is one absolute property, are there any others? Maybe gravity...
21:25 Controversial relational quantum mechanics by Carlo Rovelli
24:40 Defining Consciousness: What is it like to be _______?
28:30 Einstein's equivalence principle (acceleration vs gravity)
34:45 The hard problem of consciousness
37:40 Do you prefer "hard problem" or "explanatory gap"?
39:15 Philosophical zombies
42:05 Why is consciousness independent of physics?
46:27 Proving a philosophical zombie must have consciousness... what is a measurement/observer in physics?
49:18 Transformations of cognitive frames of reference
51:40 Zombie's frame of reference
55:45 Phenomenal judgments
1:01:00 Why has it taken so long to realize consciousness is relativistic?
1:03:30 How does Lahav's theory dissolve the hard problem/explanatory gap?
1:05:20 Einstein's equivalence principle | Consciousness as illusion is wrong
1:12:20 What's been the response to the paper?
1:16:05 Next step, experiments
1:20:00 Metastructures, cognitive spaces created by the brain
1:23:10 Consciousness & sleep experiments
1:24:45 Crowdsource funding for experimentation (GoFundMe)
1:26:45 Where to find more of Nir's work
🚩 Links to Nir Lahav 🚩
Paper discussed: www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
www.lahavnir.com/
/ channel
/ @secular-spirituality
gofund.me/b37c00d5
🚀 What is this channel?
Formerly named "The Truth", this channel seeks to better understand the fundamental nature of reality through philosophy, science, & art. We'll uncover concepts from psychology, mythology, spirituality, literature, media, and more. If you like Lex Fridman or Curt Jaimungal, you'll love this educational channel.
p.s. Please subscribe! Young channel here. =)
#consciousness #einstein #neurophysics #relativity #equivalence #philosophicalzombies #chalmers #physics #neuroscience

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6 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 48   
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
6:43 The existence of an observer 😊😊
@Self-Duality
@Self-Duality 9 месяцев назад
Excellent work! I enjoyed reading Nir's paper.
@starxcrossed
@starxcrossed 9 месяцев назад
We still listen to the same things lol
@Self-Duality
@Self-Duality 9 месяцев назад
@@starxcrossed 😎
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
1:02:03 The time to get over the obsession with the physical matter was not easy for any ordinary guy to comprehend..
@AskEpic
@AskEpic 9 месяцев назад
There’s no gap because consciousness dissolves absolutely just like everything in your reality outside of time and relativity (flow state). Non dual respective is how. Collapse the duality. The fact that you can collapse it just by shifting your experiential perspective reveals the relative and absolute illusion. That’s why consciousness is a hard and easy problem because you will go in circles trying to define it until you experientially step outside the set. Like swimming sideways in the current instead of with the current.
@Atezian
@Atezian 9 месяцев назад
This is a fascinating talk but it's also highly abstract and intangible. I don't think you and your clone can ever be an actual equivalent point of reference because as soon as the clone is created the experiences begin to deviate. Heart rate, blinking.. Even if you put them in white boxes with the exact same experiences surely there would be deviations in the physical properties of the human body which would alter the feedback loop of consciousness. I've possibly missed the point but regardless I enjoyed the video. Nice interview.
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
1:07:13 Experience and neurological patterns are all equal and the same thing it is just a different frame of reference 🙏🙏 Interesting new thought
@MendeMaria-ej8bf
@MendeMaria-ej8bf 9 месяцев назад
Extremely interesting. Thank you.
@uzituchi
@uzituchi 9 месяцев назад
What if I'm a neuroscientist observing my own neural patterns? Wouldn't this put me in two frames of reference at the same time? Or even more precisely, I'm the same frame of reference observing the "same" phenomenon, but I see it two different ways.. doesn't a paradox arise in such case? (Relative to this theory)
@mathewdenboer
@mathewdenboer 9 месяцев назад
Great question! It really got me thinking. Here’s what I came up with: You are conscious, and within conscious experience a physical pattern of neuronal activity corresponding to your own conscious experience can be observed. However “you” are not really in both frames, because “you-ness” IS one of the frames. The subtle point seems to be that while neuronal representations and phenomenal consciousness are equivalent in the sense that they are literally the same phenomenon from two different frames of reference (like acceleration and gravity), there is nothing that it is like to be a pattern of neuronal firing. Representations are one frame, and there-is-something-that-is-like-to-be-ness is the other. The relationship is equivalence, not causality. Does that seem right?
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
16:32 The Existential Reality being same 2differrent observers observe some portions of it and think it as different. So both of them will need to observe reality from all angles to get to the existential reality. This capability is what is consciousness and The human neurological and cognitive capability makes it possible for all to understand the single existential reality 🙏🙏🙏
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
3:45 Childhood fantasises are so powerful understanding how the human being evolves❤❤ Time machine
@akiravlior
@akiravlior 9 месяцев назад
Great interview I donate to Nir's research!
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
47:30 Measurements by all elements that is observing😊😊 so well said. The reference makes it very very interesting 😊😊
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
1:04:06 Understanding that the experience is beyond logic physics and measurements but just experiencing 🙏🙏🙏
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
1:05:17 Realisation is another term that is now acceptable in scientific World as something that is real🙏🙏🙏
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
26:52 Sleep is also a conscious state where in you know that you exist and are at rest. If someone calls you out you answer and respond😊😊😊 Understanding that is what is missing and would love to know more on that❤❤❤
@sunnyinvladivostok
@sunnyinvladivostok 9 месяцев назад
It's awesome hearing about a completely novel theory, and it seems sound. Recently was reading about craniopagus conjoined twins, specifically Krista and Tatiana Hogan; given their anatomy, its interesting to think about their described experiences through the lens of this.
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
8:46 Consciousness is something different. It is real physical and relative.. so lovely
@mootytootyfrooty
@mootytootyfrooty 9 месяцев назад
IMO a lot of the debate around "what is the philosophical/scientific framework that allows for consciousness as we experience it" is fairly settled in scholarly physics and neuroscience, and any modern debate is more or less a religious/ideological one to try to (consciously or unconsciously) preserve certain cultural status quos or historical narratives that inform how we treat other people and respect autonomy. It would be fun to see you interview a neurologist that works with people with missing parts of their brains. All of your frames of reference in your mind require active physical systems that evolved those frames of reference, it's completely apparent in sensory processing systems (including aggregate systems like grid cells) of the brain while emotions are muddier since it's a distributed function. And then there are frames of reference for the frames of references and more. A mouse apparently has 7 separate mappings of their whiskers per hemisphere for example, in a mirrored layout to the whiskers on the face. Some self awareness has plenty of room in a very sophisticated system like that and is basically required in complex adaptive systems. Now why the universe ended up this way IDK I blame entropy.
@Carlos.Explains
@Carlos.Explains 9 месяцев назад
Love this whole comment, always so thoughtful man! It would be great to interview a neurologist… need to add a few to the master list.
@mootytootyfrooty
@mootytootyfrooty 9 месяцев назад
@@Carlos.Explains would be curious to see how you map out your interviews at all, you always have great questions, and then there's "a thread" or whatever in common with a lot of these people, or maybe I'm looking into it too far haha. But I just got done watching a Chris Fields lecture where he uses as above so below as a formalism haha, I'm reeling.
@Carlos.Explains
@Carlos.Explains 9 месяцев назад
@@mootytootyfrooty thanks, I really appreciate that… I usually have about 3 main topics to cover. And then after the interview’s over, sometimes an “act” won’t be what I anticipated, but it’s possible to reframe it so it makes sense.
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
32:09 Everything a feather or an iron ball falls at the same speed .. would like to understand the context of such observation and inference . Very interesting 😊😊
@151Phace
@151Phace 9 месяцев назад
This guy Nir is cool as hell
@dhanurdhar1954
@dhanurdhar1954 4 месяца назад
Hello: Im going to quote one part they wrote: "In order to understand how relativity dissolves the hard problem, think about a different relativistic phenomenon, constant velocity. First, let’s choose two observers, Alice and Bob. Bob is on a train that moves with constant velocity and Alice watches him from the platform. There is no absolute physical answer to the question “what is the velocity of Bob?” The answer is dependent on the frame of reference of the observer. From Bob’s frame of reference, he will measure that he is stationary and Alice, with the rest of the world, is moving backward. But from Alice’s frame of reference, Bob is the one that’s moving and she is stationary. They have opposite measurements, yet both of them are correct, just from different frames of reference." 1) First there is an absolute answer to the speed of bob, there may be different perspectives, but they are perceptions not measurements, if you use a speedometer you will have the velocity. The answer not JUST rely on observers, but equipement, machines that give accurate messures. 2) There is a mixing between what is an actual answer and just an opinion. If one of them says Stationary, men, he is not fit to answer the question of velocity, that get ruled out, if you ask for velocity and not just movement. I may myself see stationary but i know the earth is moving at a known speed. 3) Its so... absurd to say, "when we realize that consciousness is a relativistic phenomena" The hard problem dissapear and all questions are solved and all now is seen as never before. This is for sure, in my 22 years of studies, the worst approach by far. Sure they got paid to say that or respond to certain agenda. Hey guys i just see neural movement, therefore there are no more misteries nor nothing. There is nothing in this "theory" (actually an assumption) that, due to different opinions, solves anything about consciousness. When you realize that about consiousness, your are just talking about your opinion (as seen from you argument of bob and so) And the thing that you do not see more than neural activity and therefore your opinion imply that maybe is just that, is a joke. You mix what is relativistic regarding ways of perceiving due to OUR means of knowledge, relative to our means, not to the object it self. You can have relativistic perceptions, but thats does not allow you to say that those affect the properties of consciousness of have anything to do with the hard problem nor any problem regarding consciousness as it is, since it is something and not two things right, if its two things both are esential so what the heck matters if we due to a human condition can see things aparently different? If this two components of consciousness are apparently different, there are not two but one, so if that one, becomes two or ten, just because how many people look at it, forget it, this is nonsense. Consciousness is just one thing and you start saying we can see from inner perspective and from outer and both are ok, but wait, non of the two have any answer about any problem regarding consiousness at all, they are just observations and non of the two is seeing actually any totaliry of consciousness, so you assume that you can relativize a thing without actually knowing it.
@danzigvssartre
@danzigvssartre 6 месяцев назад
Is subjective experience, including perception, just a kind of physical measurement? The theory presupposes physicalism and therefore cannot account for the Hard Problem.
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
40:11 The non physical life atom or soul can be understood, realised and experienced 🙏🙏. Please connect if interested.
@mikegracechurch9256
@mikegracechurch9256 2 месяца назад
Many others Physicists before Him had the same theory, like Dr. Peter Russel (Primacy of Consciousness). and Thomas campbell (my big T.O.E.) consciousness and theory of everything
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
34:00 Equivalence principle links will be helpful...
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
55:37 The something beyond the brain is the soul or life atom which I can explain 🙏🙏 anybody can evaluate and validate but no machine made of physical atoms can give any results.
@fourshore502
@fourshore502 9 месяцев назад
how much does the personal experience matter? i have a feeling that our stories are more important than we think, even on existential level. as in... your relationship to your parents or standing up to a bully may be more important than world war and the birth of galaxies. on a personal level for the experience of your own life this is obvious but i have a feeling it goes deeper than that but perhaps im wrong. i know this is solipsistic thinking, but so what.
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
29:35 Entanglement paper published by Einstein make interesting reading on this relativity...
@elementaleighteight
@elementaleighteight 9 месяцев назад
I like the way consistently riding the veil feels😂
@aaronknight7129
@aaronknight7129 9 месяцев назад
wow big thanks
@StephenPaulKing
@StephenPaulKing 9 месяцев назад
Maybe Consciousness is a Logical Process, not a Physical one. The "gap" occurs because the relation between logical processes and physical processes is not a bijection, except in trivial cases.
@_TravelWithLove
@_TravelWithLove 9 месяцев назад
Minute 44:00 we don’t need what why ?!?
@scottcrawford4148
@scottcrawford4148 3 месяца назад
Life is but a dream
@Carlos.Explains
@Carlos.Explains 3 месяца назад
Row row row
@givemorephilosophy
@givemorephilosophy 9 месяцев назад
5:37 Very interesting that neurosciences can not solve the hard problem of consciousness 😊😊
@drbybeesmovementmedicine-jt9jq
@drbybeesmovementmedicine-jt9jq 9 месяцев назад
yet
@williamburrows6715
@williamburrows6715 9 месяцев назад
An unconvincing argument. The brain patterns may be just the signifiers that experience is taking place. I don't see how the relativistic comparisons have any validity.
@Xcalator35
@Xcalator35 8 месяцев назад
@42:40 Sorry, but the zombie argument doesn't state that. Chalmers wants to show that physicalism is false. Zombie Argument: (premise 1) If you assume that Physicalism is true, then Philosophical zombies are not (metaphysically) possible. But (premise 2) Chalmers contends, Zombies are concieveble. And (premise 3) if they are conceivable, then they are (metaphysically) possible, Therefore, (conclusion) physicalism is false. The notions of 'conceivability' and 'possibility' are thecnical philosophical notions dealing with modal logic (specially the notion of 'Possibility') Personally I don't like this argument, but this is what it states.
@WalterSamuels
@WalterSamuels 9 месяцев назад
Einstein's models are simplistic and severely flawed, and don't account for a huge portion of the gaping holes we have in physics.
@jayb5596
@jayb5596 9 месяцев назад
Article I, Section 7 Rights of conscience; education; the necessity of religion and knowledge. All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own conscience. It's interesting that most states have laws protecting the worship of God Almighty, but more importantly they include the human conscience. There is also tax exemptions provided to churches. Why do you suppose most states constitution provides law supporting the conscience as being genuine. Unless you imagine the "conscience" as an imaginary thing that doesn't exist, why write it into law? If a conscience exist and is supported by law? Is it not logical to then proceed to the human psyche? But wait, there is no such thing as a soul, mind, or spirit. We just created terms and definitions for things that do not exist. The human psyche is non existent, so why do we pay psychologist? 𝐏𝐬𝐲𝐜𝐡𝐞 - the human soul, mind, or spirit. 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐜𝐢𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 - an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior. I'm not sure our psychologist or psychiatrist actually understand their own conscience. If they trust the scientific model which tells them they do not have a soul or a spirit, basically they are trying to comprehend a psyche they do not even believe exist. They are simultaneously trying to provide therapy to people and help them cleanse their conscience of corruption while lacking an understanding of the human psyche. How can you counsel or provide therapy for people if you don't even understand the human psyche or the human conscience? If you are a therapist and you claim intellectual superiority and yet you do not believe in God, you do not understand the human psyche how then can you provide psychological therapy to anyone? The human conscience is made up of three distinct parts. The soul, the mind and the spirit. If God doesn't exist, why do churches not pay taxes? Why is a conscience and the right to worship God Almighty protected inherently and indefeasible? 𝐈𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐚𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐞 - not able to be lost, annulled, or overturned. 𝐏𝐬𝐲𝐜𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐍𝐨𝐫𝐦𝐚𝐥𝐜𝐲 - Human psyche in proper alignment, the soul, mind, spirit all in agreement.
@jayb5596
@jayb5596 9 месяцев назад
𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐄=𝐦𝐜² 𝐢𝐧 𝐬𝐢𝐦𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐦𝐬? "Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared." On the most basic level, the equation says that energy and mass (matter) are interchangeable; they are different forms of the same thing. Under the right conditions, energy can become mass, and vice versa. We have observed this directly with every nuclear fission reaction we have produced, for nuclear bombs and power. So it's not like we do not know what matter and energy are. We have the math and the experimental evidence as well as observable real life applications. 𝐄=𝐌𝐂² but we have no clue what Dark "Energy" is.
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