A response to Devdutt Pattanaik on Hindutva and Hinduism 

Thank you for putting this up. Had similar discussions with my wife post watching that interview. That interview was very disappointing and only showcased Devdutt as a Hinduism sympathiser. Most of his responses were very philosophical in nature and didn't talk about the crux of the actual topic in question.

Wow! This was genuinely quite insightful! Even I used to listen to some of Rajiv Malhotra's stuff when I was a right winger and they made a lot of sense to me, like a lot of sense. Now I realize that almost all the points he made were just diversions from the issue at hands by using examples and topics that may appear as if they're a direct cause of whatever issue they're talking about but are actually just diversions.

Wow, blown away in so many ways, I at awe wit your view and perspective, I had seen that interview, the ambani statement completely threw me off, but bro I am humbled and impressed at the same time, thank you

Great response. However, the very first thing I observed, which I cannot hold back is the lack of a detailed take on the definition of "Hindutva". While left and right sees associates different meanings, everyone runs into the problem of making category mistake, either due to lack of knowledge in history/mythology or for the lack of vocabulary. We can only have a fruitful discussion with people on things that we have distinct ideas, once we establish what we precisely mean when we use categorical words to represent ideas. Else, its beetle vs beetle, Aladdin vs Aladdin.

A very good critical analysis and take down of Pedestalised Patnaik's utterances. Looking forward to more of such content from you, ViMoh.

Wow eye opener podcast i so love your work ❤️ Jai Hind

Dayum...That monster analogy is really great. I suck at analogies. Can you help me with that? Recommend reading materials maybe?

Astute, excellent analysis; I'd listened to the interview and felt very uncomfortable about some of the things he was saying. After listening to your analysis, the fallacies are much clearer!

please can you make this video in Hindi, i want to send it to my family group

Hi Vimoh, this video is quite old and I've only discovered you now - but here's hoping this comment still reaches you. 14:10 the westerners teaching Hinduism bit - coincidentally I was reading the 'Seven Secrets of Shiva' just last night and this exact point is part of the foreword there. Just checked that the Rajiv Malhotra book and this book were both published in 2011. Quite funky and interesting.

How can one legally leave a religion without accepting another, in India?

You said "Hindus being given preference in public policy". Would be great if you or someone here could share some examples of this.

Devdutt in live interviews will get defensive and rude coz he can’t deal with surprise questions… great video Vimoh

How to make your YT thumbnail cartoon style ???

Nicely done! Thank you

I know commenting after watching just 12min of is not quit right but i really like it till now. Since i started questioning myself no answer till now had satisfied or given me a insight that if not this way than which way. The worst thing about questioning and creating opinions is we tend to think we right depending on how many people agrees with us and i started to questioning that very thing no matter how many people agrees with what i think even devdutt i had the ich of knowing what is wrong with this opinion.

Yes bro!! We as new generation have to question everything thrown to us on the name of philosophy, or anything.. We shouldn't be taking anything just like that

In your opinion does it help to separate Hinduism from Brahmanism (all the religious scriptures are written by them and grant power only to them) given that Hinduism has a very broad definition that also encapsulates cultural practices of the subcontinent?

Nicely done. In that interview Devdutt had asked "Why don't we have a conference on dismantling monotheism?". But going by Devdutt's distinction between political ideology and religion, monotheism too is not a political ideology but a religious belief. So why ask about monotheism in response to a question about Hindutva? Seems to me like Devdutt himself is conflating Hindutva and Hinduism by asking such a question.

It was definitely very insightful.

How do you rate... Watchmen and sand man comics....??

Thank you. Your answer, seems be grounded in anthropological tradition that privileges field views rather than book view

Honestly, i was fan of devdutta being born in same society it ia very natural and we can't run from it.. We can't escape of getting influenced by this kind of explanation.. Now after many thought processes i am absolutely dont accept anything becoz someone has said it.. I first stopped listeing to devdutta

More power Vimoh✨✊

13:47 You weren't stupid back then, it was just a matter of realization.

👍

DMT explanations??

Well argued. Facts nicely marshalled. One slight disagreement: Hindutva (a political ideology) and Hinduism (a religion) are two separate things. But there is a huge set of vested interests (largely political, maybe economic too) trying to confuse one with the other. At times like this, what is important is for voices to stand up and challenge this deliberate mix-up. Christianity kept silent (or even tacitly supported) the Nazis when they build an ideology based on religious bias, and that will go down in history. Religious groups have tolerated, even supported, bigoted ideologies that misused their name at many points in history....

Devdutt Pattnaik spews a lot of logical fallacies, which is the feature of mythologists who don't necessarily purely function from a place academic rationality, there is definitely sentimental angles associated to their take on historic events. He definitely whitewashes many regressive aspects of hindu scriptures, but I don't think he always does this in bad faith. He doesn't shy away from criticising his own which takes a lot guts, I think we should be Careful to demonize him.

24:44 👍🏼

*Pattnaik and people ascribing to that strand of belief have an issue* : they use highly nebulous and functionally ambiguous language to circumvent their way through basic theological questions ; they tend to overcomplicate simple things by sprinkling philosophical enquires where said enquires don't belong!

Hi Vimoh, 1. You said that it's not meaningful usage to differentiate Hinduism from Hindutva because something like 90% of Hindus think they are the same (Idk where you got that number from, seems fake). And that it's the Hindus' responsibility to make a distinction between Hinduism and Hindutva... But that's what Devdutt is doing as Hindu. It may make you feel good as an atheist to call Hinduism the same as Hindutva, and perhaps Islam the same as Taliban. But it doesn't do anything to help the situation, in fact it makes it worse because it closes the possibility for change. The responsible thing to do is to promote a more peaceful interpretation of the religion and condemn the negative interpretations, that's what Devdutt is doing. They're not going to drop their religion when you say what you're saying, they will double down on it instead. 2. You are wrong when you say money, i.e. our economy and infrastructure, has nothing to do with communalism, casteism, and our social problems. You cannot have independence of thought and individuality without at least some financial freedom. How will you question your social group and its norms when you rely on them for survival? How will you challenge your parents when you rely on them for food? You won't, your mind won't let you, it will deceive you. When you labor for 12+ hours everyday you won't even have the time to think about these things. You will go along will your society and culture because it will benefit you and if you challenge it they will kill you or leave you to die. When resources are scarce, people fall in line with their group and survive as a group. The groups fight each other for limited resources. Your social group will provide you with a sense of security, law and order, and a meaning and purpose. Religious beliefs and dogmas will seem better than complete lawlessness, a proto-law and order system, religious book, a proto-constitution. A person in rural Afghanistan cannot question the Taliban, b/c they rely on them to survive, they provide them jobs, opportunities, crude sense of law and order, a sense of identity, purpose and meaning. Maybe if the people weren't so heavily reliant on each other and they were financially free they would start to question the Taliban. People don't bite the hand that feeds them. That's the reason why women in patriarchal societies believe in the patriarchy... Of course it's not a guarantee that you will become an independent thinker once you are financially free, but it is a prerequisite for individuality and fighting tribalism in society. That's why the richer a country is the more liberal and progressive it is. Why do you think feminism, anti-racist movements start in these countries? It's not a coincidence. The poorer they are the more mired they are in tribalism. You need some level of affluence to rise above group identity. The only reason you are an atheist is because you grew up some what financially free, you didn't have to rely on your religion or caste to feed yourself to get a job and survive. When survival is hard your sense of self contracts to you, your family and your small group, you become paranoid of others as well.

🙂👍Yes, I have to say, even as one who (mostly) appreciates Devdutt , I support your principled critique. Not that I myself am in a position to assess the situation on the ground in India. (For that I rely on the reports and commentary of people like yourself.) But I am alert to closely linked effects in the United States.

Is it right to say Modern religion is based pick and choose ideology ?

I came to your channel from your science in dope interview I have always found devdutt Pattnaik in most places speaking same as right wingers, why are liberals hosting him. But I have one question to you. Can you compare Hinduism of random Hindus on street to hindutva. Most these guys would have no anti muslim thoughts.

I remember seeing the video on the issue of caste he started the answer as if he were a progressive and acknowledging then suddenly did a uturn and indulged in caste denial in the same answer

Your analysis is spot on. Here's the thing Devdutt might be a HIndutva propagandist, but with a much lenient face. There is a reason why Devdutt is not attcked by Hindutva goons and Swami Agnivesh was! He has no intention of dismantling this fascist project, but wants to strengthen it.

Completely pointless comment: That beeping sound during topic changes is so fun

Seems we are living in parallel universe. Speakers is completely disconnected with ground reality

Good to see a channel with third opinion that does not get into left wing or right wing biases.

Why are the salaries of a janitor and a doctor different in a society? Do they provide the same value to the society? Is a janitor and a doctor respected the same way in a society? What would it take to get people respect them equally? And pay them equally? (do not assume Hindu society) Women have faced a lot of discrimination and are still facing. They are fighting back discrimination by proving to be as valuable as a man. And demanding respect from society similar to a man. They are succeeding to a great extent. Though I'm not sure if that's the permanent solution. Because women are facing a lot of issues with trying to be more 'masculine' while trying to be as valuable as a man. Beautiful would have been.. if women were respected equally as men.. in their 'feminine' roles. Beautiful would have been .. if janitors are respected equally as doctors. Demolishing Hinduism or hindutva or caste doesn't solve the core problem. Discrimination... the thought of one being superior than other.. be in gender based.. be it caste based or religion based or skin colour based or body shape based or sexual preference based... 'Discrimination' can arise anywhere and everywhere. You can't keep abolishing caste, religion.. etc to get rid of ideology of 'discrimination'. How would you abolish gender, body shape, skin colour and what not. It's important to know the cause of disease and treat the cause instead of the symptoms of disease.

Vimoh devdutt has made similar points about why are hindus angry and i think what he means is about general rage in the minds of normal hindu ppl.. Here is a link of his video in BBC hindi on the same point ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OruY72V2ncc.html

Well Rajiv Malhotra in his own words/ world is an "Intellectual kshatriya" not some chota chatri from neighborhood.

Funnily no Brahmin will cal himself I am a true blue smart shudra .

Commenting just for increasing reach.

@24:35......अगर Hinduism adaptive religion खुद में बदलाव करने वाला धर्म हैं, तो फिर हिन्दू धर्म को सनातन नहीं कह सकते, सनातन का मुल अर्थ मतलब हि होता हैं निरंतर, जिसमें बदलाव ना हो वो और जरा ये बता दो कि हिंदू धर्म ने अपने अंदर कब कब कौनसे बदलाव किए हैं? और कैसे? क्या हिंदू धर्म के लोगों ने स्वयम स्फूर्ति से spontaneously धर्म के अंदर बदलाव किये ? नहीं, जो लोग धर्म नहीं मानते थे, जो लोग परंपरा के विरोधी थे उन्होंने विरोध प्रदर्शन, social awareness करा के हिंदू धर्मियों को धर्म में बदलाव करने के लिए बाध्य किया, तब जाकर के हिंदू धर्म में बदलाव हुए हैं, ऐसा नहीं हुआ हैं कि एक दिन हिंदू धर्म के धर्मगुरु सुबह उठे और बोले के आजसे सती प्रथा बंद हो जाएगी धर्म वो केंचुआ हैं जिसे कितना भी साफ जगह में निकल के रखो वो हमेशा कीचड़ कि तरफ जाना हि पसंद करता हैं, अगर कीचड़ गंद ना हो तो केंचुए का अस्तित्व हि खतरे में पड जाता हैं, वही बात धर्म कि हैं ।

Please burst Shashi Tharoor also vimoh

Vimoh - I disagree with Devdutt on several issues. However, if a religion is to be defined by a bunch of its practitioners, then you make an argument that all religions are dangerous. This fits into you being an atheist. There are always good, bad and ugly in all religions.

Completely agree to the views

Vimoh Thora ajeeb sa naam nhi hai? Real account se aao baba

Dude Devdutt is a Feku, he presents Puarana as History. My response to Puranas being history is why is named Purana? People create new documents they call it new document, New testament, Brahmins created this document Called Purana(Old). That its self raises doubts on its antiquity.

I am amazed to hear the clarity of thoughts Vimoh has and appreciate the courage he is showing. He is breaking the pillars, the beliefs Hindus have. Devdutt is a good example of showing how great Hinduism is, how great, adaptating accepting. Which is not true. Let us open our eyes and have courage to see the truth.

Agreement on everything you said about caste and religion. Disagreement on everything you said about money and capitalism.

I think Devdutt was right. Definition of something must come from the original source, the fundamental principles , not by the behavior of the people to tend to follow it. You are literally wanting to term the "diversion" From the source, as the source itself.

I've never seen a dalit saying he was discriminated bcuz of his caste, it's always the congress politcans who actively talk about caste for vote banks. Rahul Gandhi was asking people their caste and trying to divide hindus, why is he so obsessed about people's caste. The latest video of Sham Sharma was so good.

Islam = Islamism Hinduism = Hindutva End of Discussion.

Why hindus are more radical now than before? Look at the ppl we are living with,look at there work towards us ,u will know why we are radical😊