ABBAtars and the Future of Mixed Reality on Stage: Lessons from ABBA Voyage

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As we start to mix the real and digital more and more, there are so many interesting creative endeavors to experience. The debut of ABBA Voyage featuring the digital twins of ABBA superstars is a great example of this. In this video I introduce the concept of mixed reality on stage and connect it to some of my projects and research for educational purposes.
Contents:
0:00 Introduction
1:17 The ABBAtars
4:05 How it works
6:56 History
10:15 My Mixed Reality
12:10 Your Digital Twins
#abbatars #abbavoyage #erichawkinson #togetherlearning #digitaltwins #holograms #mixedrealitymusic #mixedreality #letsstudy
----------------
Eric Hawkinson is a Learning Futurist - tinkering with and designing technologies that may better inform the future of teaching and learning.
Projects and Research at erichawkinson.com
Find online courses and learning content on Eric's other channels
/ togetherlearning
/ foreverkyoto

Опубликовано:

3 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 97

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

In my ABBA excitement I have used the term 'hologram' out of context several times in this video. I point out at 9:30 that what is on the ABBA Arena stage is not holograms. Thanks to those who point it out.

@johng5474 2 года назад

Saw it this week. Mixed reality is exactly the correct term to use. Its not just about the projection or screens, its about the whole arena being part of the show. The live band become 'less real' and the Abbatars mix in with the real life. By bringing the stage lighting around the audience even more edges are blurred. It was one of the most amazing things I have witnessed and I will be going back - Im lucky I only live on the other side of the park. Oh and its just terrific fun too!

@lenaengell8528 2 года назад

This is for sure: ABBA put in all those dollars and all those hours in making these wonderful experiences, not for commercial/economical earnings for themselves, but for all their fans. All love to you, Agnetha, Benny, Björn and Anni-Frid. Thank you so much for the music and for the experience. And, not the least for all the real, genuine feelings that you miraculously produce/get out in all of us. Feelings of joy/delight/hope and belief in the future. But also, just as important, feelings of grief, feelings of sorrow. Bring it on/bring it out in us. In order to heal. You help us healing, dear ABBA. Best regards, Lena.

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

The money really is in developing the avatars, and I think they are owned by the band so good on them.

@lenaengell8528 2 года назад

@@erichawkinsonThank you for your comment. I do indeed believe so too. And, yes, so good on them. The ABBA members have been the same nice people all through and throughout their life’s, through the peak of their fame, as well as in their down period. They have never put themselves above anybody else. In contrary, they are all humble and decent people. An example of that, is that they came to their London Avatar building in taxi. usually, other "stars" come in Limousines. Another example is that they have been open about everything in their production. For example, they admit to be admirer of the Beatles, and say that they have to thank for them for being role models, to show them that it is possible to write own music and lyrics. In contrary to many, many other artists in this branch, poor souls, I don’t think that ABBA is owned by anyone in the Music Industry. They have not “sold their souls” to anyone, thanks God. Why? I think it is because they have lived in solid, natural, unglamourous Sweden (now everyone except from Anni-Frid is still living there), where they lived a “normal”, “down-to-earth” lives with children, which also helped them to live a psychologically healthy and steady life. They also had good and sound advisers where to put their money in those days when it started to pour in. Last, but not the least, they never started with drugs. I want to remind you that to be an ABBA fan in the late 1980- into 1990 was seen down on, not at all cool. You can call it bullying of ABBA in those days. Considering this, it needs A LOT OF STRENGTH to come back the way they have done. It also shows how much solid material that is in their production. Best regards from Lena

@karoly8738 2 года назад

I was very pleased with this new kind of concert. It's something out of this world. Amazing! You have to be there , witness it in order to enjoy it

@themarcos150591 2 года назад

Did you go to the concert?

@karoly8738 2 года назад

@@themarcos150591 yes, was there on the 30 of May.

@ianleigh5157 2 года назад

I wasn't sure what to expect from the show, I went on June 20th, I can confirm it is nothing like a hologram, or like a big screen cinema view, when they first appeared on stage it was like 3,000 jaws hitting the floor at the same time. I have been to many concerts, but this was nothing like I had ever experienced before, it was completely mind blowing. You have to keep reminding yourself that what you are witnessing is not actually 4 real life people standing and moving in front of you

@moow950 3 месяца назад

Do they react to the audience?

@rugby1971 2 года назад

I went to the voyage concert on the 2nd june , i have no idea how they did that my mind was blown , it was the most amazing thing i have ever seen

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

I am so jealous you got to be there in person. It is too far to travel for me. Maybe next year if it is still going.

@shadow-js2hn 9 месяцев назад

@@erichawkinsonnow tickets are available till november 2024😂

@Trepica Год назад

It is still a way of bringing to reality fantastic characters from the past that were so successful and missed as ABBA.

@stephenmark9015 2 года назад

While people will wonder about the technology used to create the ABBATARS they overwhelming reaction is how realistic and effective they are. The photos and clips do not do justice to the images you see at the arena They do actively remind the audience that it is digital recreation in the show by using wide image effects, it's not just a standard concert performance they put in front of you. That is the mind blowing thing, you know you are looking at a artificial image at the same time you are cheering, applauding or reacting to it. Being with three thousand other people in the same mind set and it's an amazing night as the overwhelming positive reviews confirm. There is also the fully immersive lighting and wrap round screens full bringing you into the show. Spoiler alert but this is also achieved not by a endless hits only song list. Four of the tracks never got single release in the UK and they start with a b side. (As they use to be in the days of the vinyl single). The audience own relationship with ABBA music whether full on fan or causal listener is used to make the audience fully sold on the experience, there is more at play than just impressive ABBATARS and that should be looked at as why this is show has had such a response. Highly recommended and you would find the whole production and the audience reaction to it fascinating Eric.

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Thank you for the wonderful contribution to this conversation. I hope the show will continue for another year or two so I might visit from Japan to experience it live myself.

@gagalover2k10 2 года назад

I went with my friend to see them Sunday and it was amazing. It infuriates me when people refer to it as a hologram show in a disrespectful manner as if it’s a bad thing. People have even said that the people who made lied about ABBA wearing the motion capture suits when there’s photo and video evidence 😂 people just love to hate and bring others down but when they try to spread false information is where I draw the line.

@leevfx 2 года назад

Great video! I spoke to some folk at ILM who were able to tell me some things about what is going on. The entire stage/lights and side screens are one giant screen - much like the 'volume' now used on shows like the Mandalorian. The difference is that this screen is so advanced that its bright enough to mimic real lights, so you can get lighting behind the performers and sync them with real lights in the arena. The other thing is that there are no apparent breaks in the screen which is a big deal. Although ABBA were motion captured they still had the aid of some dancers who were shot in costume and had their faces changed to those of ABBA. The side screens are full CG and it is quite obvious that they're not real, but the camera movements and close ups really sell the idea that they are stage, especially as its perfectly synced. The arena was purpose built for the event and the idea is that in 5 years time it will start touring the world/reside in another country for a while.

@andyjenkinson5070 10 месяцев назад

As I have said elsewhere, only money and willingness prevents the show being in multiple countries/ locations simultaneously. A copy of the Arena would be cheaper to build next time, the digital copies are cheap to copy, no new plans required and planning permission would be easier having already built one. The electronics are probably cheaper / better. Main ongoing costs are staff, live group and singers and maintenance. Once you have successfully built your first anything the next are easier, better and cheaper!

@hackapump 9 месяцев назад

@@andyjenkinson5070 Yeah, this is a good example of original research costing a fortune to realise the first time - and all involved took a massive economic risk with this - but is infinitely cheaper to replicate. Now they have a blueprint they know works, it’s "just" a matter of investing in building arenas and buying the hardware. Which of course isn’t cheap, but has a guaranteed return of investment. They will milk the London arena first though, to get properly reimbursed. And maybe try to avoid cannibalising on the audience travelling distances to London.

@badgastein2 2 года назад

My understanding is that the 4 members of ABBA are rendered in 2D on an ultra HD giant OLED screen. No need for 3D because the human eye’s ability to see 3D reduces with distance from the observer. Adding in elements such as independent lighting/light show confuse the brain so accepts the performance as ‘real’. If you go to Ripley’s Belive it or not show in Niagra Falls they may still have the light and sound room where it is almost impossible to walk through a room without becoming disorientated. Congratulations to ABBA for succeeding where many others have failed.

@badideabearcub2747 2 года назад

Yes and No need for a Pepper Ghost effect either. By the way, the word Hologram is not correct in any of these instances, they are just flat 2D figures in all of these cases.

@badideabearcub2747 2 года назад

I'm also curious, because the sweet spot for this effect is very narrow. It wouldn't work in a regular stadium, or even a theater if it's wider.

@rugby1971 2 года назад

well i doubt that as i was in the arena on the 2nd june and they actually rose up out the floor at the start , the stage is slightly at a slant as well , the whole show is a 360 experience, loud bigger than imax ,

@Ztbmrc1 2 года назад

I was there and enjoyed this wonderful show! But I doubt whether it was 2D. I stood at the flore, about a bit more than half way of the dance floor size from stage. I have not walked up to the front, but if it would be 2D, the people in front would see that. But they looked 3D for me, as if they were really there. At some moment I started to think it were actors dressed up as young ABBA... Still wondering how it is done. Maybe sometime they give a look behind the scenes. O I just see a "behind the scenes" video here in the list to the right. I will have a look at it right away!

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Yes it seems like the viewing angle is a bit narrow.

@mervynwhitcombe7092 Год назад

I have been to see the ABBA Voyage Show in London, it was fantastic, it was almost impossible to say the Avatars weren’t actually the actually ABBA Members

@lindawoody8501 Год назад

The newer technologies are ever better and changing annually. Yes, virtual reality and avatars/Abbatars and this Abba Arena in London are among the forefront of what is possible. I believe the Abba show in London has been extended by another year now due to some 97% ticket sales and being sold out for most performances thorough about May 2024. Imagine. Thank you for explaining the methods the Technicians have likely used to produce this program. Fascinating.

@stephenhall6677 2 года назад

That means that ABBA could go on indefinitely

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Is that something we want? If so, what does it mean if everyone and every band can go indefinitely?

@gagalover2k10 2 года назад

I went to see them and it was great, I was standing at the very front so I had a good view. The only minor problem I had was that they only stayed in one spot and didn’t come near the front of the stage like you would see with actual people, so in a way I hope that with the improvement of technology they find a way to make them have the ability to walk closer to the front of the stage. I so wanted Frida to walk right up to us and hold her mic out for us to sing along, I know that sounds silly but it would’ve made the line between reality and illusion even more blurred. I think a bit more deepfake is needed as well. But as a whole it was an amazing experience and I hope to go again soon

@themotownboy1 2 года назад

They are not holograms.... It is CGI.

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Thanks for the comment. I used the term hologram too much you're right. But I tried to explain how they are not 3D holograms at 9:30 - But I'm not sure CGI is the right descriptor either.

@themotownboy1 2 года назад

@@erichawkinson - The "ABBAtars" look to be generated on a screen. Having seen some hi-res photos from one of the concerts, if you zoom in as much as you can, you will see some very faint gridlines.

@alextirrellRI 2 года назад

It's been a bit tricky to find clips of the live show, but for many of the older songs, it looks like they found a way to motion capture older live performances of Frida and Agnetha -- especially on the dance heavy songs. With all love and respect to the ladies, they are in their 70's now and I wouldn't expect their dancing and movement to be as strong as it was in their heyday -- and with the ABBAtars it is, so I wonder how they went about doing that. There are only a few songs in the clips I've seen that look like they were captured as they are now.

@badideabearcub2747 2 года назад

They have a choreographer that "enhanced" the motion captures. Meaning that he created dance moves inspired on the group's moves of the 70's and motion captured other dancers doing those moves.

@peterlenham3180 2 года назад

Abba spent 5 weeks doing motion capture work. It's them moving and singing, with younger performers also motion captured for faster movements. Both Abba and the younger performers movements are then blended together, for the final result.

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Yeah I saw a high kick and immediately thought it can't be capture from recent times, in fact I don't think I have ever seen that cheerleader style high kick from them. It might even be stock motion capture at times.

@discogareth 8 месяцев назад

@@erichawkinsonthere was no stock footage mocap. It’s all either ABBA or the doubles. And Frida did some very high kicks back in 79. Not quite as high as the new one though.

@MrSmriley 11 месяцев назад

Go there and prepare to have your mind blown! And it's actually so simple that you are tricked into thinking it is something far more complicated, but I won't ruin the illusion for those who have not been yet.

@jorgevillavicencio427 9 месяцев назад

Good morning, Erik. I just came across your channel today and I haven't looked to see if you have any updated material regarding the ABBA Voyage concert. But I want to share something a friend told me about the projections for this concert. His son works for IL&M and they were the ones approached by Benny to help with the creation of the technology. The way I understood is that there were no glass sheets or anything else of the sort on the stage. To achieve the three dimensional look on stage a special invisible LED was created. Think of it as a black light king of thing. You can't see it, but the black light would change the tonality of colors specially, fluorescent colors. It would also have an effect on people's skin tones. I am absolutely a infant when it comes to digital technology, but that's the way I understood the ABBATAR effect.

@kyleday5026 Год назад

hi can u make a updated video about what bjorn recently said in mexico he mentioned that the abbatars will eventually be done in real time where they can train the ai to say things he has written and do spontaneous movement every show will be different instead of the same they will do things on the fly.

@moow950 3 месяца назад

I consider this not holograms, but just projections (2D) on a glass screen. A real hologram would be 3D and viewable from all sides and just indistinguishable from the real thing. Maybe this could be done with lasers in the future? I wonder if the ABBAtars are generated live on the spot, or is it just a digital recording. If live, then they can react on events. Imagine if they can be controlled by AI (trained on the real personalities). The ABBAtars would be able to respond live on the audience and react like the real ABBA members would have done back in the 1970s while giving a concert. Imagine having a conversation with the ABBAtars ;-) It's like a time capsule where you are in 2024 and they are in 1975 or something.

@jay_ooh 2 года назад

Using the "Mamma Mia" portion of the show wasn't really a good example, for that is half screen imagery and the other is avatar tech....but the better example is probably "Dancing Queen" or "The Visitors" that really shows off the ABBAtar tech very well.

@jtwilliams8895 2 года назад

There is no way that the movement of the Abbatars is that of the 70 year old members, having been motion captured. Don’t get me wrong, the performance looks fantastic, but there’s just no way that it’s been used for the whole concert.

@thomaskirby6706 Год назад

I was hoping you were going to tell us how it really works, but I’m sure ILM is tight lipped about it for now.

@robertm.-certifieddaytrade4939 11 месяцев назад

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, it is not a hologram! It is a specially designed massive size CLEAR LCD screen that has a transparent see-thru background so ONLY the moving figures appear. The see-thru part of the screen allows for 'staging" walls, furniture, pianos and other items on the stage right behind the screen. And because other than the characters the screen is transparent the items on the stage also show, in affect blending actual objects with the figures moving on the lcd screen! How I know is because among the 470 artist/technicians and special effects professional working on this project for many years was a relative of mine! Stay Blessed, Everyone. Robertfromdaytradingwiththelight

@TogetherLearning 11 месяцев назад

Yes, the speaker responded to overuse of the term hologram in a pinned statement/comment a year ago just after this was posted. Please refer to it. Since this video we have learned a lot more about the workings of and production of the space.

@Tocimah 2 года назад

Been around. Yes, politically, too.

@Ztbmrc1 2 года назад

That footage that you showed was of poor quality. I was there and it was superb quality. You should see the show for yourself and than tell us what you think. Btw, why is your name on your shirt mirrored?

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Yeah I want to see the show, being on the other side of the world and all it will take some time and doing to make it happen. My image is flipped as I record mirrored so I can point to the screen behind me in real time with out getting too confused ;)

@cymro6537 2 года назад

They're not holograms 🙄

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Yep, I think in my ABBA excitement I started using the term hologram out of context. But I did try to explain in there that they are not 3D holograms. Thanks for pointing it out.

@RustyViewer 2 года назад

Beatles next?

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Why not? That might be awkward as only some are still with us to inform the creation of the digital twins.

@RustyViewer 2 года назад

@@erichawkinson They could make use of deep fake technology.

@louisedemarillac777 Год назад

Can't do motion capture on the deceased

@RustyViewer Год назад

@@louisedemarillac777 No, but they could be created in other ways, even using past footage. We might have to wait until tecnhology improves further but I am convinced it will be possible one day. You could even use lookalikes and tweak accordingly.

@alenaarinchehina Год назад

Существует необходимость в регистрации Tis, раз регистрируют iT.

@itzcaseykc Год назад

Celine Dion was accompanied on stage by a holographic Elvis with a possibility there was a person who was shrouded with the image of Elvis as seen in this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-c7OFl3TJSUk.html . There were a few blips but otherwise wit was a good production.

@badideabearcub2747 2 года назад

Looks like nobody in the west is aware of Hatsune Miku and her concerts in Japan, which is a completely digital persona, .

@TogetherLearning 2 года назад

I live in Japan and a few years ago I remember a Domino's Pizza marketing thing with Hatsune Miku danced on my pizza box using augmented reality. @EricHawkinson the maker of this video lives in Kyoto.

@jay_ooh 2 года назад

Okay, I don't like the De-aged terminology you keep using Benny and Bjorn have never used that once they're going through. George Lucas's industrial light company. It is technology that has never ever been used. Part of it have been used in various Star wars scenes, but the technology that ABBA is using is not holograms, nor is it de-aging process. Process it is done through lights and sound and they are not permeable or see through like a hologram would be

@jeffkleist9679 2 года назад

It’s been being used in Japan for years to bring electronic idols to life. It is exactly the same projection technology, just far more realistic characters. It’s a question of development budget, not of technology. The technology they use on Star Wars is not de aging either, it’s a digital mask being put on an age appropriate body double. . The original performer is used as reference and for motion capture

@dreasbn 2 года назад

De aging of course abba are still alive and they recorded movements were not connected to their current outer appearance which thy could have done… instead they took their movements on de aged meaning younger themselves in terms of outer appearance. On top it’s clear that even with movements it’s not them to a 100%. I‘ve seen already videos with dance moves that were for sure not executed by Agnetha and Frida in the studio. With all the respect they have never been the best dancers to start with and they did not move like that in their 70s. Especially on Lay All You Love On Me it’s obvious. Maybe a fusion…

@jeffkleist9679 2 года назад

@@dreasbn I just told you how they do Luke Skywalker. The body doubles copy the moves. Mark Hamill performs the part, then his double copies him.

@TheNameOfJesus 2 года назад

I am even more excited than you about the future with regards to this type of technology re-creating people and events of the past. But it won't really catch on until the developers put the software itself into the hands of consumers, so that we can control the camera angles on our own computer screens (or on our own VR/AR headsets.) This new show is just a small step into the future, but only a small step because there's no interactivity for the individual viewer. The future of entertainment is interactivity. Whoever developed this ABBA show doesn't see the importance of interactivity, so I'm a little disappointed.

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

I am with you on this idea. I design experiences using augmented reality and the key design affordance is customizing and curating content and interaction for each individual user. But I'm still not disappointed from what I have seen from this ABBA experience, its a step in that direction and a wonderful accomplishment.

@TheNameOfJesus 2 года назад

@@erichawkinson Thanks, and I agree that this is a step forward. They can take additional steps forward, like interactivity, if they want to take my money. I also have some events from the past that I'd like to purchase as software AR/VR experiences. For example I'd like to see the Hindenburg explode. And see the Titanic sink. And D-Day. And the H-Bombs dropped onto Japan (education about that event can't be bad.) There are also some historical sports events and entertainment events I'd like to see. Whoever owns the rights to the Oscars could produce VR versions of all the Oscars throughout history.

@TheNameOfJesus 2 года назад

@@postcardsfromprotest The reason I wouldn't go to an arena is that I can't afford to travel the world to various arenas to see everyone that I want to see, but I can afford to spend $100 on software to see their avatars. And besides, as I said, many of the things I want to see are historical events, which I can't see anywhere else but in software.

@gagalover2k10 2 года назад

If they didn’t care about interacting with the fans when wouldn’t have bothered to make this to begin with, I can see what you mean regards to VR but you just come off as super disrespectful. I went to see them and there was plenty of interactivity between the abbatars and the audience

@TheNameOfJesus 2 года назад

@@gagalover2k10 I can think of many ways a person could be "super disrespectful", but saying "I'm a little disappointed" shouldn't be counted as one of them. Go check the video I made about ABBA on my RU-vid channel and then tell me I don't love them.

@frankmustermann7272 Год назад

Hello Eric, I know I'm late.🤣😜 the idea, like "abbatars", is nothing new. something similar has been around for a long time. for example: I don't know if the name "Hatsune Miku" means anything to you. there has been a superstar in japan for a few years. she is also known worldwide. Hatsune Miku, a singer, is a 16-year-old diva... in business since 2007!!... and was at number 1 in the Japanese charts for 22 weeks in 2009. she was 16 years old in 2007...and still is! because she is artificial, not a real person. her voice comes from the software synthesizer "Vocaloid" and her appearance resembles a manga character. she has released 100,000+ songs. There are 170,000+ videos of her on youtoub. you see her in commercials, interviews on tv etc. she fills large halls at her live concerts. a life-size hologram with programmed songs and a real live band playing their songs while she performs. what we see now, with techniques like abbatars, will affect the entertainment industry like film music.

@erichawkinson Год назад

Of course I know Hatsune Miku. I develop AR applications based here in Kyoto and Domino's Pizza Japan was one of the first commercial examples I saw that implemented AR avatars. I think it was in 2008 or 2009 I can't quite remember, but she would dance on top of your pizza box for you. She was also used in mixed reality concerts and other live events in the past as well.

@frankmustermann7272 Год назад

@@erichawkinsonoh thank you for your answer. I thought to myself that this character is no stranger to you. i'm so excited to see how things will continue after the abbatar concerts are such a success. the possibilities are breathtaking and scary at the same time. for example: does it make scanned actors unemployed? just one question that comes up. On the other hand, you can see today's artists in 50...100 years...in new productions. It's a shame that this technique is only now feasible. imagine you could have elvis pesley or freddie mercury give concerts today. or make new funny films with Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy, I'm curious to see how that develops.

@erichawkinson Год назад

@@frankmustermann7272 I have had similar thoughts. I hope to go see this concert as it is now rumored to travel to Singapore and the US.

@sven-goranlindmark1583 2 года назад

Mr Hawkinson you are actually deminishing what ABBA accomplished by marketing own ideas,thouhgts and opinions. Beside this Ludvig Bennys son said as being one of the main producers that this is not holograms at all as you claim. Read definitions please.

@erichawkinson 2 года назад

Oh I am sad you think that. I am excited about ABBA and especially about this new experience. You're right I regrettably used the term hologram out of context too much. But I do try to point out that this is not holographic tech.

@peterfriend8084 11 месяцев назад

Have they adequately rendered Agnetha’s wonderfully pert derrière?!!

@jasonbutt7199 Год назад

They don't look like 1979 more like 1977.

@peterwilliamson2488 2 года назад

Nothing that you have mentioned such as Peppers Ghost or the trick with the mobile phone is a hologram .Because you appear to be so naive about Holograms makes me think that you have never even seen one.