I mean, low tech stuff like rock lobbers and bolt throwers naturally do, but gunpower artillery like dreadquake mortars and rocket batteries sound awesome.
In all honesty I didn't want to believe it because warhammer 2 was decent at the end but I think CA is another casulty of "modern gaming". Warhammer 3 for some reason feels alot worse than 2 which feels worse than Medieval or Shogun 2. Yea we have alot more unit types, magic, more elaborate campaign mechanics but when it comes to pure battle feel it's not the same. I think we are due to CA collapsing sadly.
Ok, this makes me want to play Fall of the Samurai again. The boom of the cannons, crackle of the guns, smoke drifting over the battlefield. It's so great.
@@asherwoodrow7471I'd say don't get your hope up with the current CA track record. Same as Medieval 3. I'd say the reason why they didn't plan make Med 3 is because they know that with the current policy of the company everyone will be comparing it to Med 2 and says it got prettier graphic at the cost of everything else that makes Med 2 good.
As soon as I saw 4 Armstrong guns I knew it was over. Those guns are some of the strongest units in total war. Each is essentially the equivalent of Warhammer’s Queen Bess
They're better than the Bess, they have more ammo and shoot even farther, lol. With experience they get even more insane.They're so OP, but they're great for a DLC like that. That's when you can get more whacky with stuff.
They're better than the Bess, they have more ammo and shoot even farther, lol. With experience they get even more insane.They're so OP, but they're great for a DLC like that. That's when you can get more whacky with stuff.
It's why the faction that starts with them on Kyushu with Nagasaki as their capital is so OP - the AI is programmed to sprint straight at cannons if their outranged, so every battle is a total bloodbath early game.
I'd say they overcompensating for how terrible the Mangonel and European Cannon in the base game was; They have role to fill that no other units can do, yes, but they're still bad at that role that it might as well not doing a thing at all. And so the Armstrong Gun shows up...
A Tosa army without Tosa Riflemen, one of the best units in the game, is a bit odd. Especially considering he has four armstrong guns. Still, a great battle, and just another one of the reasons I love FotS.
armstrongs are better than Tosa rifleman. TR's are just a better version of sharpshooters and a (sort of) superior replacement for line infantry. Armstrong guns give you abilities that you otherwise would not have (like forcing the AI to always attack you in field battles)
@@nilloc93 Tosa Riflemen are great with their increased ammo capacity + range when on the defence and you need to cram as much firepower into a small section as possible. Having to attack through busted down gates or climb walls, the lower soldier count per unit really shows. Having at least 1 melee unit in your army to storm castles with is a must if Tosa Riflemen are all you have otherwise. Red Bears (or any of the Bear units for the other factions) bridge that gap so you wont need specialized melee experts, since you can use your line in the attack aswell.
@@Pilvenugayou want to cram firepower into a small section? Sounds like a job for armstrong guns lol. You can have as much variety in your infantry as you want but a stack of 15 line infantry with 4 armstrongs will beat any army that doesn't have arty.
@@nilloc93 you're a bit special, ok. 15 line infantry + 4 armstrong guns will get beat by 15 Tosa Riflemen + 4 armstrong guns in a field battle. when you are assaulting a castle you need the extra numbers and melee power that bear infantry have to push through the remains of units that are holding on in the citadel after you've exhausted the ammo of your artillery on them
I love hearing Legend have an orgasm every time there's a hill on the battlefield, because if you know anything about hills in Total War, is that it gives you the high ground. We all love the high ground just ask Obi Wan about it.
Couldn't find One Wan, but found another senior of the Star Wars universe. Dude told me that the high ground is a pathway to many victories, some against odds which many would find unnatural. Followed it up with some speech about how the strength of a good hill let's you conquer dead itself and be immortalized as a legend.
Fall of the Samurai is just so satisfying. The crack and smoke of the rifles and cannons, the beauty of each bombardment and volley. It's just so amazing and satisfying seeing battles in FOTS.
Never really got on with FoTS as I couldn’t get my head around using gun infantry, but your recent videos have convinced me to give it another try. Thanks for featuring more of these older titles Legend.
It's probably the best Total war for guns tbh. In terms of responsiveness and stuff. Way better than like warhammer to me at least. Napoleon is ok but so slow. FOTS only issue is it's really easy if you just defend and wait out the enemy while you get better tech.
@@DillsyYourDaddy67 yeah could do. I’d want to do the more ‘historically accurate’ play through first, but a traditional unit run is definitely on the cards 👍
You can actually use almost the same tactic when the enemy has to move over hills to get to you. If you place your units so they can shoot the enemy when they reach the top of the hill, it can be even more devastating since the enemy has to walk in range of pretty much all of your units at the same time. With the tactic Legend uses, if the enemy units have the same range, they can stand still at max range and exchange fire with only the front row (as long as you dont move forward) which can be pretty annoying sometimes. It also can protect you from artillery with a low projectile drop.
That was the most cinematic and tactical-savvy battle I 've seen in a long time in TW... You gotta love the classics... it's unbelievable Shogun 2 is a ten years old game already, maybe more, I think the base game came out in 2011 and Fall of the Samurai in 2013?... Thanks Legend for the quality content, keep it up!
@@fiveforbitingIts because they're constantly chasing the wider audience money. The thing that really gets me is that S2 is so polished and beautiful on the visual side and the newer ones just look so unfinished, especially the UI and battle map, whoever thought that rome 2's pottery drawings was a good idea is hopefully just working at a potter and not in game development anymore.
yeah, and i'm sure if Fall of samurai release this year as shogun 3 instead it would be an absolutely banger for sure, this game keep up even after 10 years
I love the way the smoke builds on the hill as the cannons start firing, battles in this game look so damn cool. Also, what a massacre. I dont think I've ever seen a fight so one sided its insane how much value that one hill got.
I cannot overstate how much I love how much the battle changes in mood, like all the smoke at 1:30 absolutely covering the enemy, making it harder to read the situation at a glance
Defense in depth defined as: a military strategy that seeks to delay rather than prevent the advance of an attacker, buying time and causing additional casualties by yielding space. It is a strategy, not a battlefield tactic used in a single skirmish. The people telling you that your single battle tactic is a strategy don’t know what they’re talking about.
player base: pissed off with warhammer-CA, and filled with general frustration/resentment Legend: I'm about to single handedly resurrect the medieval, shogun, rome games.
I don't mind the Warhammer games but we got too much of in such a short interval that it's just oversaturated. The fantasy elements allowed more unique play styles but it just got so boring to get nothing but Warhammer.
Yeah, the problem with the tactics in Warhammer is that while a lot of factions have some potentially interesting and unique abilities that can be used to great effect, they're usually either so narrow in scope they're rare to use, or so universal in scope you pretty much want to use them all the time (like getting enemies to blob up and dropping magic on them). Which means there are "Obviously correct" choices which aren't really choices at all. With the older historical games a lot of the tactical depth comes down to understanding and using fundamentals properly as there are fewer options because there aren't a bazillion unique gimmick units, but because of this, much more of the tactical variety often presents itself, ironically, because units have more general flexibility. Plus, the older games, aiming more toward a bit more realism, really make the environment super important. Things like controlling a hill become much, much more critical in older games.
Fall of the Samurai was my first total war game and is still one of my favorites. I love that you are going back to play these games. The battle sound and particle effect are so satisfying.
FOTS is peak total war. SO many good units, the visuals and sounds are great. I mean look at how the battlefield is covered with the smoke from all the firing, your vision gets obscured not by on/off systems but the actual effect of the fighting. Soundscape with the sound of cannons and rifle fire that has yet top be matched by any other total war game more than a decade later
@@Vedrine41It'd suck balls if it was made nowadays. Empire 2: Britain faction pack Dlc free if you pre order now! A month later France faction pack only £19.99! CA haven't made a decent game since Atilla, and even then Rome 2 and Atilla took years of patching to make into decent games and both were horribly money grubbing like all of the games that came after em.
You gotta try revolver cavalry. One of the best units in the game. Best way to use them is have them ride slightly past enemy units. Especially if they get bunched up and already engaged. They can shoot over your troops, which is especially good against melee troops.
@@Saberlena Thats the reason i always avoided placing musket infantry behind each other, i've had some bad experiences with FF but i cannot remember which total war it was.
@@xXBisquitsXxFOTS usually doesn't FF that bad, empire and napoleon it happens a bit, but in FOTS units usually just don't shoot if there are friendly troops in the way.
Smoke on the battlefield creating a true fog of war is so amazing. I love gunpowder in total war games. Its such a different style of gameplay, very neat.
So glad to see you going back to some of the older games man! Love shogun 2 and seeing it again makes me remember how good Total War used to be I really hope it can have a comeback in the near future
God. How is it that they took such a massive step backwards with representation of guns in the Warhammer games? I mean I understand why they can’t be as deadly, because of the way the warhammer games are balanced… but the sound! The smoke spreading across the battlefield! How did they fuck up the ambience of gun armies so badly when they nailed it so hard in shogun 2?
Man it's so cool seeing you do Shogun 2 and FOTS videos. Been watching the WH vids for a few years now and I've learned so many things from you that I've applied in my Shogun 2 campaigns. Thank you for everything bro!
loved this made me realize i really loved shogun back in the day, looks at steam catalogue , shogun 2 last time played 2015, only 23 gigs, getting hyped playing some old total war games, nice
Its so odd because I have played a FoTS campaign and finished but forgotten so much like the police units and that you can capture artillery and the fact you can now capture the islands. All I can remember is the Railroads whereas I remember so much of vanilla shogun 2 even though I like FoTS more, How strange.
I remember my first fall of the samurai campaign I was super aggressive as I normally am. Roman style diplomacy of “either I wipe you out or your give up totally.” So no one ever peaced out. I went it alone and became the emperor, and I did it all before rails were even really a thing. Think like 100 turns or more from the end date. This is my average experience with total war.
Such a satisfying battle to witness. Really enjoying the Shogun 2 resurgence as of late. Maybe CA will finally take notice of what sort of games they should be making.
I'm loving your return to historical TW. I have Warhammer 1 and 2 and only put like 8 hours in each I just could not get into them and I tried. But Shogun 2 is my most played. Role playing western merchants demolishing samurai with guns never gets old
Couple of days ago I started playing shogun 2, base game as Shimazu, went straight for guns, researched ones over imported ones and got to Kyoto before realm divide, drew the force out, got a hill on my side, set up multiple tiers of gunners and 20 mins later was shogun .
When two or more defensive position cover the same area with their fire it is called overlapping fields of fire. It is a basic principle of defense, you apply it with static defense or defense in depth. Defense in depth refers to a strategy rather than a tactic. It focuses on delaying the enemy by giving ground and having him overstretched and diluted and thus exposed to counter attacks.
I tried saying the same thing in the last video. Defence in depth is a higher order strategy, you can't really employ defence in depth in Total war battles since giving ground doesn't really confer any benefits. Overlapping fields of fire was correct.
the armstrong canons is a menance, they reload twice as fast as the parrot cannons, also if u make them from a blacksmith province that are focus on accuracy upgrade, and build a accuracy training ground plus supervised recruits with a foreign veterans, u can get over 65 accuracy from those cannons and just watch ur cannon rain hell fire to the enemies just with 3 or 4 of them in ur armies.
How the hell do you play Tosa without Tosa Riflemen? They are quite literaly the Spet Xyon's of Shogun 2. You can take a general plus three Tosa rifles and auto resolve ANY early game battle. Castle with a full stack? 3 Tosa rifles still win in auto resolve. Insane.
Honestly AMG is the Coffee tsm are only the cream. If u play on vh/Leg u need to focus on money tech and this is the early stage. Tbo when I finally have some Golden tsr i already won the game on the contrast AMG are the ones who brought me there:-)
For real this Hill makes me blush, im dreaming about this in any total war game. And then look on this long open field infront of that mighty hill GOSH
Really lovely to see you doing so much historical content. I stopped getting into new TW's after the first Warhammer, which just wasn't for me (not saying they are necessarily bad games). CA is so much down the drain that they have no clue what a huge portion of their fanbase is asking for.
You really underestimate how good even the parrott guns are in FOTS And the armstrong guns are just on another level It's crazy how much damage they can do
I love the warhammer trilogy. They are my favourite tw game amongst all but taking a break from fantasy to a powder based shogun 2 battle is very refreshing. I am hoping to see more.
I have been enjoying the other total war titles from you Legend. Despite me loving warhammer total war (due to being a WHFB player) seeing the other total wars get love is a nice change.
this expansion is basically what empire could have been, shogun 2 in my opinion was peak total war, it had its ups and downs but to finish on an expansion so crisp and perfected for a traditional to gunpowder age must have been such a challenge for CA of that time to pull off. TTWH trilogy is brilliant but has more issues around it day by day, rome 2 was a disaster at launch but got better and attila probably deserved more attention but all in all shogun is that one game that sits on top as a labour of love and it shows
Yes way those Armstrongs got that many kills. Those things are literally the most OP part of FOTS and the reason why I always preferred regular Shogun 2 more for gameplay. Also the fact you put the Armstrongs at the very top of that huge hill, gave them even more range to start racking up the kills sooner. But honestly I think they didn't really start slaughtering until the enemy stopped in front of you. It's harder to nail them when they're moving laterally far away.
All 3 campaigns in Shogun 2 are excellent. Most people ignore ROTS, but even it is top tier Total War, and it's the least of the 3 campaigns. Highly recommend you take that plunge. The music especially is excellent too.
@@MidlifeCrisisJoeROTS was definitely made for those interested in the Genpei War history rather than actual shogun 2 and FOTS players. Its also the only game (its a dlc but whatever) that accurately depicts the samurai, they're mounted horse archers and now sword swinging morons.
The entire battle I was picturing Legend as the artillery officer just constantly calling new targets: "Bomb there! No wait -- Bomb here!" Meanwhile, the poor artellerists keep having to rotate the entire gun after every shot.
What about that seemed remotely intelligent to you? They sent in the cavalry way before the line infantry was in position to fire so they got taken out for free. They sent the sharpshooters in without support so they lose to the higher volume of fire from regular infantry when the sharpshooters could for example just have fired from behind the line with their superior range. They could have waited for their cannons to fire at the very bunched up lines.
Legend i think the optimal tactic with artillery is to use them separately. Having one battery target one group of enemies. It gets way more kills than using 4 batteries to shoot one unit. Also, they are far more lethal when you aim them in front of enemies (it does require more macro) because they automatically shot to the flank of the targeted unit.
It's crazy how much better Fall of the Samurai is as a sensory experience compared to WH3. Like it's been so long that I've forgotten how satisfying the sound of gunfire and cannons, along with smoke rising up from the battlefield can be.
This is exactly why my late game armies in FotS are literally 50% Armstrong guns and the rest is elite infantry and some gatling guns, and they mainly defend the Armstrong guns. Doesn't matter what I go up against, those cannons destroy everything.
At this point the player should've researched rank fire already. Would make this a lot more lobsided than it already is with having cannon superiority. Just noticed its missing. PS: ahh Legend mentions "Kneel Fire" right at the end there. :) Yep thats what you want!
