A great read on the nuance and humility required to maintain the royal path is Blessed Seraphim Rose's series of letters to Fr. Ambrose Young. Of particular note is Blessed Seraphim's foresight that those under Fr. Panteleimon at Holy Transfiguration Monastery were headed for schism which sadly they eventually fell into.
Therefore you are in a schism By appointing your own Bishops Episcopal and Patriarchs which was forbidden by the Holy Fathers The GOC are schismatic and in some ways heretical
Our opinion or hope the US order of precedence in the Mind of the Church might be: Demetrius, Nicholas, Saba, Tichon, and so on... not based merely on Diocesian size, Hierarchs age, or nationality, but rather Historical-Docrinal Purity-Service! IC XC NIKA flipping scripts since Holy Theophany!
To Clarify my comment at the end of the Stream. I was Baptised Antiochian on the New Calendar and I have no animosity towards those who use it. I currently attend a ROCOR Cathedral and previously attended an OCA Parish that is on the Old Calendar. I will visit Parishes that are on the New Calendar and if I had no other choice I would attend regularly a New Calendar Parish, especially if they are Antiochian. Though I am planning on putting down roots in my hometown and I can only really in good conscience go with either ROCOR or Serbia if I was to begin the mission process here.
Hi Father, posting this here partially because you’re the only one who will see this… But has the change in view of the Orthodox Traditionalist about the GOC impacted your views on what our relationship to them should be?
Christ has Ascended! Thank you for covering this complicated and not well understood topic. I'm hearing here a good stance from Fr Mikahil and Subdeacon Nectarios, yes we should be charitable with Old Calenderists and not be so quick to push them away, this type of format and discussion is a great way to open up a friendly dialog with them, if I were an Old Calenderist I would not feel threatened by this discussion, so often things become too polemical and hot button issues can work up the passions, instead of a sober listening with a spirit of love and truth, to really desire communion in the Church with one another side by side. We new calenderists can definitely agree with the OC concerns and stance against all the "isms" I am with the OCs on these issues. However some OCs became stained with a deeply sectarian view, that is divisive and needlessly extreme towards Orthodox whom they refer to 'world Orthodox'. That being said, I hope that this discussion and hopefully others can help extend an invitation for a mutual sharing in our struggle to remain on the narrow Royal 👑 Path of our holy fathers, saints and contemporary holy elders!!
@@acekoala457 I do like this idea that the True Orthodox didn't struggle during the first half of the 20th century when New Calendarists and Sergianists were literally murdering them
One thing that wasn't mentioned was the Old Calendarists that came out of the Metropolis/OCA once the Calendar Switch happened in the 80s. St. Nektarios Cathedral in Seattle used to be the OCA See in Seattle before St. Spyridon was built. Now it is an Old Calendarist Cathedral.
I am new to the Church and find this issue incredibly difficult, considering the "schismatic" groups also claim that "world orthodoxy" is "graceless". That is a very serious charge being leveled by those who are supposed to be orthodox, and many of the groups have anathematized one another.
You had me until you said Macedonian 😅. Forgive me Father. Just teasing a little but as a greek from the north western border I wonnt ever use that word for the Skopje culture. However I am in full support of Skopje recognizing Saint Seraphim Rose. Your content is a blessing. This was a wonderful discussion. Always look forward to your videos. Δοξα τω Θεω.
Fr Mikhail, could you do another stream with Subdeacon on this? Exploring in a detailed fashion the ecclesiology and various historical responses to heresy? And then I would love to see you do a conversational format interview with Metropolitan Demetrius of the GOC-K. We really need to have more healthy dialogue with them, and stop the hate that people who don’t know about this issue on both sides hurl back and forth…
It is easier to "Flee to Other Bishops"(Granted they are Canonical) in America. As I can easily drive however long it takes to reach another Parish if there is really a problem.
I am currently reading "Resisting Unto Blood" 65 years of persecution of the old calendar of Romania 1924-1989. If the calendar is no big deal...why the horrible persecution! The new calendar disrupts the unity of the Church, so very sad!
Moderate secular authorities seem convinced that remaining out of sync will result in a return to confusing trade catastrophes, especially regarding perishable goods, as occasionally happened in the centuries between 1592-1924, but that fear is absurd in the internet age when clocks can automatically adjust to you changing time zones! Caesar began his Calendar for pragmatic reasons, might even have thought us silly to not be equally as pragmatic about it now, but St Constantine made it SO much more than a practical tool. The Canons forever tied valid imperial authority to the Calendar. On the argument of whether Saint Czar Nicholas had both that authority and at the same time is alleged to have tacitly “authorized” a change in saying “I’ll explore it after the war”, on THAT point, I am resolutely agnostic and will be obedient to my bishop on the matter.
What makes a synod schismatic? Also I have heard that the MP and EP both considered ROCOR schismatic at one point or another which appears to be wrong now, my question would be how can we know for sure that the OCs are actually schismatic if the label has been used erroneously in the past? Also if a synod is a schismatic does that imply 100% that they do not have grace in the sacraments?
What its sad is that in my Serbian Church people and also the priest dont know many things about Orthodoxy and heresy.. I said that we have different Trinity, and wife of the priest said that no, it is the same. Then i explained. And she was surprised :D i mean... But i think this is normal, that i know more teological things then they do. Because i was researching things for 4 months every day. it is like when tourists comes into your country and know more about it than you. Because we are taking things for granted. :D And also Serbians say that i should just get chrismation. Also the priest, and i said to him that i officially left RCC. And ok ok.. then baptism.. with pouring water on my head, because they dont have large container. And i said i will find one, and he said - no, no need to. Ah yea... they are under ecumenisem..
I was actually baptized by pouring when i was 4. Sad but it is what it is, at least if i have children God willing i will insist on proper baptism, if rejected i will look elsewhere until someone actually does it. (and is not a schismatic ofc)
Another interesting aspect of this whole movement is that many synods, or sects turn into personality cults, but it is also instructive to see what God permitted to happen to some of them. Vicar Bishop Matthew of Bresthena was paralyzed immediately on his right hand side; being unable to bless or ordain anyone, and his ability to speak being severely inhibited. Metropolitan Pavlos of Astoria was stricken on his right hand side as well, unable to bless anyone, this was after slandering a schismatic bishop who now resides in California. Metropolitan Cyprian of Fili went into coma and died in an horrific manner, mouth gaping and with an awful stench after a life which came to be characterized by refusal to be obedient to an old or new calendar synod… I don’t say this to insult or crap on the struggle of the Old Calendarists, many of whom I view as my brothers. I say this to show the dangers and unfortunate climate they have been in.
Readers, are those that have been tonsured/ordained into the minor Order of the Priesthood. In the liturgical texts only sons/men can by Readers. Now when women read in church, they have a blessing to do so because there might not be men able to do so. I believe it’s a form of economia. Not a big deal, it should be a call for us guys to be more active in our parishes tho!
I also go to a ROCOR parish, and i think every ROCOR parish is different. But ROCOR itself was established for those russians fleeing, and many of their men were killed and only the women were left to pass on and maintain the tradition, which is why i think even in russia, there are a lot of good female choirs haha
@@mariorizkallah5383 An American Priest who is serving in Russia asked the same question and a Priestmonk told him that Men don't come to Parish regularly because they are afraid that if they do they will be Ordained. It's kinda true in ROCOR too.
Father a question, awe not, according to the 15th Canon of the first second council, as Orthodox Christians supposed to stop commemorating and communion with a bishop and or priests commemorating that bishop if they are openly preaching heresy or going against the tradition and teaching of the holy canons and dogma of our Church. EVEN if they have not yet been formally defrocked or anathematised by a synod, and still a hierarch. Many of our Saints stopped communion with their Bishops, before they were formally condemned. Are we, according to the canon, outside the church because we go to a church which commemorates the, not yet condemned, but heretical teaching Bishops? Also with the Old Calendar Churches in Greece, are they not ALL in schism, as they have set up a parallel Church, to the formal church, instead of walling themselves off, stopping commemoration and communion with formal Church until it is healed from heresy, as the Saints did. There's six or seven archbishops of Greece, in Greece?? Not one holy Saint of our Church that was wrongly banished from their throne......set up a parallel throne anywhere else. Apologies for long question. Your blessings.
There is some great talks from OrthodoxEthos on this - the canon itself says that one MAY stop commemorating. Not required, may - it is praiseworthy to stop, but not required. St Photius himself who wrote the canon did NOT stop commemorating(!!!). Fr Kosmas of Orthodox Talks speaks of this as well, talk 83 - its a great talk full of how the Holy Fathers deal with heretical Bishops, and what obedience means. There is no "communicating vessels" of "you must stop commemorating, otherwise you are graceless." Thats just not true. Those walled off, Fr Theodore Zsis has a few patristic article on his decision to wall-off, which seems blessed. Fr Peters own personal opinion, from what he has seen from Elders he knows, is walling off is very dangerous, its easy to fall further away - which some OC have shown. But walling off has happened in Church History, yes. Videos from Orthodox Ethos on youtube: Fr Peter Heers: On Canon 15 and Ceasing Commemoration of One’s Own Bishop Fr Peter Heers, Russias New Martys - Patristic and Canonical Treatment Toward a Local Church Whose Hierarch Preaches Heresy
NFTU dude; They became schismatic fully at the time they broke of communion with the canonical Orthodox Church. There are multiple sects of the Old Calendarists, so please tell me which main sect and subsection of that sect you are part of and I can do my best to tell me when your particular sect became schismatic. A more accurate way for me to have stated my initial point was that the Old Calendarist movement was not only not schismatic at the time, but hadn’t even broken communion.
@@godsaveus4380 No, the schism didn’t happen except for the Matthewites until quite a while later, and the break in communion didn’t even happen for another five years, LoL.
Fr Mikhail bless, this was helpful but often times Subdeacon was going to say something thought provoking and it seemed you would cut him off by reading the comments from the chat. With all respect, please consider a different approach for the next live stream.
@@ryrocks9487 I really wish someone blanket criticizing Antioch’s approach to WR would instead carefully review Antioch’s research into the nuances about what they concluded was rehabilitative. For example, let’s say, the Hersriarch Nestorius had decided to apply his perverse reasoning about Christ to the symbolism in The Song of Solomon, claiming that Solomon wasn’t just using his Romance with Sheba as inspiration for a symbolic hymn for God’s relationship with Israel, but that He really WAS having some kind of “carnal” relationship with Israel! That would be a vial, disgusting thing, and must be ABSOLUTELY condemned and not tolerated… …but should that have meant going so far as to mandate the removal of Song of Solomon from the Canon of Scriptures? It’s far from a perfect analogy, as no mere devotional is anywhere near the same league of importance as a book of Scripture, but salvaging, rehabilitating as much of the western tradition as can possibly be validly done is is just too important to so many, as per Doctor Overbeck’s thesis. A strict, liturgical cultural reset to 1054 is as alien a world to many as going to any other rite may be, perhaps a fascinating place to visit, but it’s just not home, culturally. Too many are weak that way, and I know several. I am referring to the ABSOLUTELY OLDEST versions of “The Sacred Heart”. I say this as someone who has gradually let go of using this authorized version, in large part because a simple troubadour symbolic devotional with all this controversial baggage isn’t worth the trouble for me personally, but it’s just too integral for converts like my mother to at least not keep this earliest version in the background. I’ve gotten her used to treating as just another minor devotional with a particular quirk, but she can’t bare to part with it further than that. I DO stand by Antioch’s analysis that only versions of the devotional AFTER the French pseudomystics TWISTED it with their madness after 1600 did those versions become objectively Nestorian. Was there a grey area in the 200 years before that? Enough to make it imperative that if any WR is to use it at all, it MUST be the absolute EARLIEST versions. I don’t know about elsewhere, but that is a strict rule in the WR parishes in the Mountain West area. What’s interesting to me is I’ve seen no long term converts use it with any regularity, just knowing it’s an option seems to be enough. We have no icons, it’s not held up as anything special, as I said, it’s just one of countless other devotional formulas, the Troubadour formula, which predates Francis of Assisi by over 100 years, he was just the most famous person to use that kind of approach to prayer. I find it overall to be a good way to transition away from such habits, like switching from high nicotine to low nicotine instead of going cold turkey. I can foresee Antioch phasing it out eventually, especially once we’ve grown to a certain extent. As for the particular parish where some jackass said he’s a “quasi papist” that is NOT around here. My Pope is Saint Paschal in Heaven, the last Pope we know for certain that was fully Orthodox. He reposed in 824. The Carolingian rot began to ooze In after his repose.
Why not receive communion the Genuine Orthodox Church is with the Julian calendar They are not ecumenist they are with the Julian calendar and we’re against covd jabs and restrictions They are not with Bartholomew Anyone with the new calendar automatic is ecumenist under Bartholomew
Aren’t we behaving like the Scribes and Pharisees, calling ourselves holier than thou because we follow a certain calendar? My daily struggles, my daily worship and sacramental life is beyond the human concept of time, as we place our lives in God’s Holy Hands; and Jesus is beyond Time ( Psalm 90:4) (2 Peter 3:8)( 2 Timothy 1:9). Let’s not hide behind our little finger, the whole issue is not about the astronomical calendar but about the Pope of Rome introducing a new calendar. We do live in unstable times, descending into Antichrist’s times and we need to be vigilant like the wise virgins of the parable. Let each one of us watch that we have enough oil in our lanterns as we wait for the Bridegroom of our soul, and pray for our hierarchs and priests so that they may lead in us with a spirit of love ( as in Corinthians 13). Lord have mercy.
Fr Mikhail, Are you approving and disapproving comments in the comment section? I can see the amount of replies on some of these threads but the number of comments being shown isn't adding up. In Christ, Theodore
I delete comments that are inappropriate, blasphemous, promoting schism or heresy and if they’re using inappropriate language. If someone is here just to fight, I won’t give them a platform. As the owner of the channel I reserve the right to put a stop to arguments that are inflammatory and don’t benefit the mission of the Church.
@@living_orthodox Ah, okay, makes sense. :) I do have a question though. I always thought that the GOC-K (the synod SubDcn was referring to in his talk on the Greek OCs) are schismatic? They aren't in communion with any of the canonical jurisdictions. This confuses me.
@@user-kh4gc6np2c tragically they’re in schism. We pray for their return. The whole goal of this podcast was to try and encourage our fellow Orthodox to be gentler with them, and that it is ironic that many in the Church are more “loving” with the heterodox.
@@living_orthodox Fr. Peter put it very well in a semi recent Q&A. "They are unfortunate victims of an ahistorical Phronema and ahistorical Methodology despite being outwardly Orthodox"
I’m not with the GOC. No one is on my channel. Did you listen to the whole show? There are many other issues with the GOC. However, I don’t know what you mean by “knighting”. We ordain and consecrate in Orthodoxy. We don’t knight.
@@living_orthodox My sincere and deepest apologies No I didn’t listen to the whole talk as I presumed you were from the GOC I will now listen to the entire talk And I said knighted cause my brain went dead for a moment So thank you for setting me straight May Our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus be with you always
@@user-xo9gp9bk4v no. We are on the Old Calendar because we are with ROCOR. We aren’t Old Calendarists. There is a distinction and this has been made very clear in this talk and on my channel. I’ve also been very transparent about who I am with. You can even look me up and find the article detailing my ordination in Jordanville NY at Holy Trinity Monastery. Again, listen to the whole talk. I guarantee any questions you’re going to have like this will be answered.
@@living_orthodox Thank you so very much Father I am walled of “ Apotixisi “ due to the madness of the Faketriach Bartholemew and his cohorts and what they are doing to destroy Orthodoxia I’ll keep listening and thank you again PS I was on occasion attending a Russian Orthodox Church here in Melbourne Australia but I believe Patriarch Kirill is also wanting to join with the Pope of Rome , so I couldn’t go back , it’s unfortunate but the Holy fathers teach a lot about not being in communion with the heretics or will be judged as same as those fake teachers of Orthodoxy Feel free Fr to teach me stuff if I am slightly off track xxx
