Ace Attorney, but it's Shovel Knight vs Hollow Knight - Part 1 | objection.lol 

My man Edgeworth forgot to say that The Knight had to beat every boss *NO HIT*

Okay so I’m halfway through but I have a point towards hollow here: The radiance is a god, among the power levels of the Greek gods, and her domain? Dreams. Her power is the power of dream and thoughts. And the knight killed her in her own domain, in which she can control the world around the knight

I love how there's an entire chapter for Judge wanting to talk about his T-Shirt.

I would have Loved if this was instant premiere

I am a fan of hollow knight and shovel knight, and especially of hollow knight, so I feel like it's best to clarify a few things. I'll be making this case in favor of the knight, mostly because I understand HK better. 1. The knight is the descendant of a wyrm and a root, both are pale beings. What are pale beings, you ask? Basically turbo-deities. Not only that, but it has a 3rd parent-- As when it was birthed it was corrupted by a void, a force inherently hostile to all living things and capable of manipulating the minds of others, so that does actually matter. 2. Following that last point, is that gods are not necessarily deities in HK-- They CAN be deities, but also include exceptionally powerful mortals. Higher beings are our real world equivalent to gods, and pale beings are, as previously stated, turbo deities. 3. For feats, again assuming both characters are at their strongest, ghost has beat every god in hallownest about 6 or so times-- Once in the base game/to attune them to the mind of the godseeker, who seeks out powerful beings in order to become more like them, once on attuned (The normal difficulty you can fight bosses at), once on ascended, where enemies deal double damage, and once on radiant, where being damaged once would kill you-- Once in each of the four regular pantheons where you fight them in different groups, and once in the final pantheon, where bosses are stronger then normal, and you fight them in direct succession from one another. Keep in mind that there's 47 bosses in the game, about four of which could be considered on the level or descended from the equivalent of human-world gods. 4. For equipment, ghost possessed three special nail arts, four spells including three void empowered spells that cover every direction in a huge radius and can multihit and a healing spell and the ability to cast about 6 spells assuming ghost is at full mana, which is called soul in HK-- This part is important though, while ghost can't generate it's own soul, it's charms and the act of attacking a living thing does regain it's soul, meaning while ghost wouldn't be able to cast nearly as many spells as shovel, it would be able to get a constant flow of them, whereas shovel can only get more mana by killing things and digging. It also posses a pure nail, the strongest weapon in the game, 45 power ups in the form of charms, an awoken dream nail, which can (presumably) crack through any mindshielding, enter people's minds, teleport, and read thoughts, as is was mentioned in the video-- However it can also pacify the void, to an extent, making it an ally by uniting itself with it through the voidsoul, a charm it can't unequip. One thing to note is that while bosses are stronger in their own heads then they are normally, ghost faces little to no repercussions for losing in a dream battle, and could theoretically just keep trying until it killed the shovel knight in it's dreams. 5. The "thing" shown in edgeworth's photos' is called the shade lord, who is presumably the god of gods after usurping the title from the game's main antagonist, the radiance. To give you an understanding of just how powerful this thing is, it commands all of the void, that substance that can manipulate minds and is hostile to all living things, is an amalgamation of all of ghost's dead siblings, and, this is a big one, was capable of effortlessly tearing an empowered version of the radiance to shreds and scattering her essence across the void before consuming her essence and destroying the entirety of the godseeker's pocket dimension, something ghost had to kill itself and work with the spirits of it's other dead siblings to do to kill the radiance without that extra power in the base game's good ending. I feel like that's more then enough to kill shovel, but I'm not going to make that decision by myself and let someone more well versed with shovel knight set up a counterargument with shovel.

Wait but The Knight was never restrained in the Absolute Radiance fight Unless you factor in the optional Bindings, The Knight’s able to bring in all of his abilities and gear into the battle And even if the bindings are considered, The Knight still has access to Shade Cloak, their spells, Isma’s Tear (which is useless in said fight but could be a consideration against, say, Plague Knight’s mentioned vials), Monarch Wings, and all of their upgrades. My man Edgeworth should’ve gone for how The Knight can recharge his soul and heal in the midst of battle since his soul (mana) recharges from dealing melee damage (and also charm shenanigans), and therefore could keep a good balance of ranged and melee attacks vs Shovel Knights limited pool of ranged attacks, having at max 3 or so mana refills with every mana refill replacing potential for a heal (since Shovel Knight’s mana can only refill from certain breakable objects or from killing enemies) 10/10 video tho

As someone who had extensively played both games i feel like i need to clear up some stuff Shovel knight: -The big bomb relic is used by plague knight yes, but it is just a simple bomb instead of plague's main weapon in his campaign, so saying it has adaptability isn't really true -It's not really explained when in Kratos' journey does the fight take place, meaning some of his feats listed should be taken with a grain of salt -Those cannonballs are slow as fuck The knight: -The knight can't 'force' people into the dream world, instead what he can do is enter someone's mind and it is shown that when this happens the knight basically goes unconscious while the opponent is free to do whatever -Dream nailing isn't instant and it takes some time to finish the animation same with the dream gate -I have no idea where the idea of time travel came from, there are no mentions of this anywhere in the gene, i assume Edgeworth was referring to when the player dies and goes back to a bench. But he left out the fact that this leaves behind a shade and it's shown that he doesn't go back in time when he dies but just wakes up at the bench -Hitting shovel knight wouldn't give soul, because like in the false knight battle hitting armor does not produce soul, however dream nailing will -Dying in the dream doesn't kill you the only real connection here is grimm and the radiance which are specific cases. Grimm is part of the troupe and they have this entire ritual that requires the current grimm to die so baby grimm takes his place (basically defeating NKG in the nightmare world was what allowed the baby grimm to consume his 'scarlet flame'). And the radiance was a higher being that for the most part only existed inside the dream world thus upon it dying in dream world, the knight actually just killed it

Parts where Edgeworth messed up: 1:06 C'mon, Edgeworth, you're so much smarter than this. The knight doesn't time travel, he just doesn't die. 2:48 Edgeworth ... I ... What? I get it, but that is a terrible argument. 5:07 It's possible, but the game doesn't absolutely require you to limit yourself to that point to get that ending. Sorry, Edgeworth, but not necessarily canon. 5:26 You could just use Occam's razor and say "it's f***ing light itself" because a cult and mind control don't say much, and they don't get the significance of the vessel part. 6:04 Edgeworth that adds nothing to your point. 7:00 EDGEWORTH THAT ADDS NOTHING TO YOUR POINT HOW MUCH SLEEP ARE YOU WORKING OFF OF? 30 MINUTES? 10:58 Stop just saying that and prove it. 11:09 Triple. 11:44 No, Edgeworth, that's not how it works! 13:06 So that's what Edgeworth meant. No, that's not shapeshifting, it's just f***ing crawling, Edgeworth. (Also, I'd argue most of the charms he selected aren't the best of the best, but it's too debatable) 14:13 We're judging physical power. Pure vessel would be a better example. Weren't you extremely eager to talk about him before? 14:49 I won't even comment on this. The stupidity is clear enough. 15:20 No, that's wrong, Edgeworth. Both of you haven't brought up your best points 15:55 EDGEWORTH PLEASE NO! 16:54 THE SHADE CLOAK! PLEASE, EDGEWORTH, THINK! 17:05 Thanks for the dedication, Edgeworth, but maybe you should at least TRY fighting first. 17:25 HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN HOW SOUL RECHARGES EDGEWORTH? PLEASE HOLY MEKHANE FOCUS! THINK! USE YOUR GOLDFISH MEMORY! 18:19 WHO REPLACED IT WITH THE LOW BUDGET ONE AGAIN?! WHO DID IT?! OWN UP! 19:07 No, Edgeworth! Again, that's not how it works! 19:29 I think that's incorrect. Debatable, but there's a good chance. Parts where Apollo messed up: 5:56 Really, Apollo? You're named after Apollo, you should know this stuff. Zeus is the grandchild of the goddamn Earth. One. Goddamn. Planet. And he's way, way weaker than Gaia. 7:04 I think you're working off of 1 hour of sleep at most, Apollo. Once again, so, sooooo wrong. 7:22 But what if it's like rock, paper, scissors, Apollo? Rock beats scissors, and scissors beats paper, yet rock does not beat paper. 8:05 APOLLO I SWEAR TO WAN YOU MUST BE WORKING OFF OF 15 MINUTES OF SLEEP. WHERE IS YOUR POINT? HOW IS THIS RELATED TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT? THINK, APOLLO, THINK! 8:21 Congratulations, Apollo. Now you look like an idiot. 8:38 Congratulations, Apollo. You managed to make yourself look even DUMBER. 10:33 Apollo didn't even bother arguing back. 12:41 Really, Apollo? REALLY? 14:21 Apollo, Edgeworth is arguing right now. It's not cool to interrupt him. 14:39 Apollo, don't be stupid. There is no thing, or group of things, that can fit ANY circumstance. Half of the parts where Edgeworth messed up were him not bringing up points in his favor. Focus, Edgeworth. Focus. Holy WAN this is long.

I just want to say. Hornet can actually beat Shield Knight. It might be biased of me to say. But Hornet is like the apex predator of the Hollow Knight universe. She's the fastest/most agile hunter that can _pierce_ through any weak point. And I'm sure as hell that the Shield Knight's shield doesn't really cover her whole body. Hornet's weapon is a damn needle. Hornet could just leap a certain distance and lunge towards Shield Knight's weak points. Which are the neck and the joints. Every armor no matter how strong, will always have a vulnerable or weaker part to be mobile. The neck isn't completely covered which Hornet's needle could pierce to. While the ankles and elbows can also be impaled by the needle itself. Don't forget that Hornet is acrobatic and the fact that she can tank the knight's/vessel's spells, nail strikes and etc with nothing but her physical capabilities. She literally just wears a poncho with hidden tools.

that ending encore killed me. great job as always Genra

Doesn't the knight canonically have the ability to do the things people like CrankyTemplar or Fireb0rn do?

These are thoroughly entertaining. I don’t know why, but they just are. I could watch them and be like “yeah, that’s true!” or “No, that’s not right!”. Like being a part of a real debate!

Oh gosh I was expecting the “is hornet void” debate as soon as he mentioned the word void. I’ll have to wait and see, not even halfway through yet

6 minutes in but is Edgeworth not gonna mention the fact that the Radiance shoot out actually lasers or beams of pure light from their face? And the fact the Knight CAN DODGE THEM?

I’d love to point something out: One of Shovel Knight’s strongest abilities is the phase locket, which turns him temporarily into a ghost to give him short time invincibility. However, the dream nail, the weapon that The Knight has that can cut into the dream world, has another power: It can give the wielder the ability to both see and kill ghosts. So, thanks to the Dream Nail, the Knight can quite literally make one of Shovel Knight’s greatest tools utterly useless for battle. That’s why I now am fully team Vessel; since the only reason WHY I supported Shovel Knight in the battle at all was because he had the Phase Locket to begin with. Lmao

Edgeworth is really bad at defending his position in this one. Radiance is essentially an Elder God, who was able to bring about the apocalypse and make mind zombies out of the denizens of Hallownest purely from just the fallout of her power being in a different dimension. So powerful that three different higher beings conspired to committing the birth and genocide of an entire RACE of their own offspring, just to keep it at bay. THAT is the monster The Knight defeats, witching it’s own godly domain. This can be done by the night with the same equipment and health as from the start (give or take a few metroidvania items). This can also be done after doing a boss rush where you face The Pure Vessel which was powerful enough to seal the radiance AND another elder god of an opposite ideological domain from the radiance, but this time the Radiance is in an even more powerful form called Absolute Radiance. In this ending the Knight ascends to become the very concept of the void itself (which by hollow knights lore/philosophy argument within the narrative means the knight has become an elder god of the very concept of nothingness). Shovel Knight beats Kratos in a very simplified, much weaker form as an Easter egg.

The ultimate void can’t be touched, but him can touch your soul and destroy it

This type of vids are just gold

These videos make me feel nostalgia,not because it’s ace attorney,but because this was when powerscaling was easy,less complicated,and more comprehendable I’ve already scaled characters to beyond math(yes,all of mathematics,I’m not kidding)so this is much easier to even understand,even if edgeworth is not good at explaining

Watches video: Damn, I'm gonna hit the like button to show that I loved it *Sees likes sitting at 69* The greatest of sacrifices require the strongest of wills.

"You cant just use child abuse as an excuse!" 😂😂

I’m just going to put this here: I think hollow knight wins for one reason: he can die and come back. All deaths in hollow knight are canon, but shovel knight’s are not, at least as I can tell. TL,DR: vessel can’t loose because he literally can’t loose. Just to add something, shovel knight could win if he traps vessel in someway, that’s the only to truly defeat him

I already know it's a great one

these arguments are so good, earned a sub

This is pure gold i bloody love it!

I loved this so much I subscribed!

"I mean not much can counter a vampire pufferfish"

This focuses too much on skills and special abilities, hollow knight is purposefully vague on basic characteristics such as height so without talking about that the only aspect that can be compared on a raw stats basis is the fact that the vessel is a bug, so it's unlikely it could do anything with it's attack or anything of the sort The only basic characteristic that is shown to be significantly strong is speed, despite how slow the characters usually are and how long it takes for them to move, the radiance is a primordial being of light, who is on a realm that increases it's capabilities, so the vessel should be moving at somewhere along those lines, and his resistance is enough to survive attacks moving at that speed by an enemy that has such advanced speed At that point there are many arguments you could make against this, the radiance needs to think and the attacks having that much buildup are canon and whatever to reduce the importance of the raw speed

I have been watching your videos work and keep up the good work

I'm having so much fun watching this,,,, keeping a running commentary in my head.

7:02 OBJECTION:Zeus didn’t create shit

hollow knight every time

Loved it.

This is a work of art

In real sizes, team shovel, the knight is a literal bug, but if they were scaled to each other's hight, team hollow all the way, they're both skilled because hornet could solo either of the members of team shovel, and the knight is leagues stronger than hornet, and is (not really spoilers but also kinda is) his own "father", the pale King, who was literally a god in his (sorta) previous life. And if you want to know more on the subject of who the knight is, check out game theory's video "the knight unmasked"

edgeworth legit should have gone "one of radiance's attacks has an ai that's smarter than most players."

I love your videos

Great video very funny!

As someone who has played God of War but not Hollow Knight or Shovel Knight, I will point out that Kratos had to have fought Shovel Knight between God of War 3 and God of War (2018) which would imply that he’s not at his strongest since he wouldn’t have the Leviathan Axe from 2018 GoW and presumably doesn’t have any of the gear from previous games since he doesn’t have them in 2018 GoW except the blades from the earlier games which he stopped using to start a new life in Midgard

You just got a new subscriber bruh

Today I learned that Shovel Knight is literally canonically stronger than Kratos Who'd thunk?

19:30 yeah except for like. Zote. And Hornet. And Dung Defender. Most of the enemies he fights in the dream world or hall of gods are already dead

The Knight wins no doubt, all the vials are deemed useless due to isma's tear and soul gets recharged by striking an enemy, all The Knight needs to do is hit Shovel every now and again to recharge his equivalent to mana and he cannot lose, also, all deaths are cannon in Hollow Knight so The Knight could just die and come back whilst deaths in Shovel Knight aren't. In conclusion, Shovel never stood a chance. (This is without considering half the things The Knight does btw)

He completely got the best charms wrong :(

I know nothing about Shovel Knight but I love that you picked the bigger nerds from the prosecutor-defense pairs for this argument

Ema getting bullied for 23 minutes.

You can easily disassemble this arguement with a single sentence “Shovel knight is of average human height whereas hollow knight is the size of an ant”

Way to grab my attention by starting the video with my favorite moderato theme. ❤ I'm pretty sure vessels are genderless, but I imagine it came more naturally to you to just call the knight a he

WOAH THAT MUSIC IN THE BACKGROUND IVE NEVER HEARD IT I LIKE IT!

It's here!

How many frames. I just want know how many frames it takes to do a video THIS LONG.

Ghost killed the sun.

before i watched, i have to make it clear: The knight fought A FREAKING GOD MOTH THAT SHOOTS LIGHTBEAMS AND BLADES AT HIM! so if he could defeat that, he can win against a knight with a shovel

Kratos in *actual* myth never really killed any gods but got the help of other kinds of gods, too. Also I never got around to playing GOW so I ain't sure if he killed all the good there

One word, void

We need more 👁️👁️

Isn’t the Hollow Night, like, a few inches tall? They’re all bugs, right? I mean, Hornet fights with a literal needle and thread. Shovel Knight has, like, at least five feet on the guy.

Radiance taking over hallownest being impressive? Okay, sure, it took over a 2 meter long, maybe 1 meter deep if I am being very generous, Segmented land populated by insects that had just barely gained sentience from their king. Sounds real difficult.

Hey gotta ask have you watched jojo and if you did wich stand do you think is the stongest. I'd really wanna see the characters disscus about this.

Imagine a "game character versus" but each one uses it's respective game's TAS.

Did Edgeworth Even play hollow knight??? He doesn't know the basics

i would like to explain what edgeworth means by vessel can time travel. they can use the hall of the gods from godhome to go back to the fight

Forgetting that Radiance is the sun

My thoughts on both chars Hollow is more versatile, he has a lot of abilities that if you use well, it could be devastating, hes is also probably the most agile of the 2 Shovel is more simple and overall stronger, he has overall better tools than hollow and can use them more times Idk who to lean on

If it wasn't for that Kratos crossover being Canon the Knight could easily trounce Shovel in a fight

One is an epic ass bug knight, the other a guy wearing armor that likes to dig holes. ONE HAD DEFEATED KRATOS. WHICH ONE? THE BUG GUY? NOPE

okay but the knight is like a tenth of an inch at best

Why'd you stop uploading? Ur content is great

wait what's the light's vessel the Knight only fought the radiance once also WHEN TF DOES THE KNIGHT TIME TRAVEL

Kratos beated Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Helios, Hera and the Nordics after his fight with shovel knight, so they don't count. And since God Of War III is the direct sequel of God Of War II and there's no time skip between the two, we can say GOW II feats don't count either, so Shovel Knight dead on arrival. Edit: Just realized the fight was in Kratos' way to Scandinavia. So yeah, he beated GOW II and III gods, but not Nordics

PATH. OF. PAIN.

I just realized, what the radiance did sounds a lot like what the enchantress did

Edgeworth is a liar, the vessel cant just hit shovel with the dream nail and take him to the dream plain, he would only see his thinking for a moment that way. He has to defeat him first and then dream nail the body, therefore it isnt a factor in this fight.

i would watch the entirty of said "long way" in one sitting without hesitation anyways i am of to watch part 2

shade lord go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

ZEUS IS NOT THE CREATOR ITS CHAOS

Does someone knows the music's name from 15:30 onwards?

Opened up a God like a chip Bag Lmao 10:51

grave digger vs bug be like

Objection! For the kratos thing the fight is only on Playstation versions on the game making the point invalid invalid 10:02 but is it cannon in the shovle kinght universe

Might need my service for Dialogue styles and penalty bars?

DID YOU JUST TRY TELLING ME THAT HORNET IS VOID

Throw in Soul Knight for extra fuckery

Wait, I haven't played either, but isn't hollow knight like a bug or something, could shovel knight just step on him?

Dude. Apollo was explains this so well while edgesworth didn’t explain anything.

Shovel knight canonically beat the crap outta Kratos. That's all I need to know

Did you just say thorns of agony is good... Who's gonna tell him it's not gonna be me.

All this arguing and all you had to say is that Shovel night is a person and the knight is a bug

INFINNA DAGGER ADVENTURE (Little reference)

Did you just say team void while talking about hornet?

I figured out that the kratos fought in shovel knight is from god of war 1 before defeating Areas as he uses the blades of chaos which he had in god of war 1 only. therefore, kratos had killed no gods up to this point.

Small bug exploding does the same amount of damage as Radiance who is apparently comparable to Zeus. Does that mean that Zeus can only do 2/9s of a bug's maximum possible health?

The knight have time travel?!

The knight wins and there’s nothing you can do to convince me otherwise

I REALLY don't think specific game versions should count because in that case shovel is only battle toads level or has separate stronger abilities entirely dlc should count as its part of the game that everyone can get

Edgeworth is NOT who we send for hollow knight scaling 💀

Ok I think hollow, but still it adds up, if they are same size then hollow would win but not by much- because of stuff Like power up’s and shit like that so I would be a very close match but hollow wins by a sliver because of his better abilities, but Apollo does well on explaining on how shovel could win.

The real question is whether or not quirrel would help the knight

Death battle says scrooge beats shovel night 🥲

in an unbiased opinion, I say hollow knight all hollow knight gotta do is incapacitate shovel knight and use the weird dream world needle thing and boom, plus holllow gotta beat everything no hit either way, making him agile as fuck. final opinion no one can change it