I've had good luck with the laser toner method but even better success using vinyl stencils cut on a Silhouette or Circut machine. Also, the ideal place to do your etching is on top of a running clothes dryer. It's nicely warm, and the vibration helps keep the etchant aggitated.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you going over proper disposal methods. Great Video! I'm going to have to get some Brass stock from the local home center now.
That, my man, is a very thorough and professional presentation. You answered questions that I didn’t know enough to ask. This one is going into storage.
Another great video!! Very detailed in the various methods of applying a resist along with what did and didn't work! The extra effort you put into this saves the rest of us having to go through the same experimentation. I also like your methods of finishing off the projects. As others have commented I REALLY appreciate that you went into how to properly dispose of the solution so as not to pollute the water! I find a lot of DIY videos that use toxic solutions of all kinds don't discuss this and I'm absolutely mortified to see what people pour down the sink which means we're all potentially drinking it not to mention contaminating the environment! Kudos and bravo to you!
Was searching for a commercial option to produce a name plate. Couldn't find a thing, then I stumbled across your video. Brilliant, bought materials and followed the laser printer method. It's worked better than I could dream of! Thank you :)
Well if you only need to make one there's hardly a place you can find which will make it and make it worth the cost. For serial production though, making lots of them, you can probably find a lot of producers willing to make it for a price point that makes sense per plate.
i was wondering if that would work. the ex kept our trophy/plaque shop and she does tons of vinyl, mostly for shirts, but can do other materials, too. we could use an oxidizing solution on brass plates that would turn the engraved parts black very quickly.
Great video. Perfect level of detail. Thank you so much. I've had my laser for 8 years and thought a CNC mill was my only solution for working metal. This opened all new doors
Using the closed-cell foam as a float is very clever. Another thing that will speed up etching is agitation - either mechanically (stirring or tilting) or with an aquarium bubbler. Parts that sit still etch slower because the etchant in contact with a given surface becomes saturated and thus etches slower, so you want to give it a swish to make sure that "stale" etchant is getting replaced frequently. Another option for exposing photoresist, used by some who make PCBs, is to use a dry-film photoresist that gets ironed or laminated on, and then exposing it with an MSLA 3d resin printer.
Thanks Daniel! That Craftsman DP badge gave me an idea using your technique to restore the number plate for my 1950 King Seeley that I messed up during cleanup...the trick is matching the original font. Great that you gave a fun shout out to Chris. An amazing man...like you!
How bad is it messed up? Maybe you can take a good quality photo of it and trace what you can't match through fonts? There are also good services like WhatTheFont and Identifont that can help you identify fonts, but oftentimes for these old vintage stuff the fonts were simply not standardized how they are now, and many of those old fonts may never even have been digitized.
Very. I used a 10:1 cleaner solution (10 H2O) in my ultrasonic to remove a decade worth of being in a horse stall on the ground. It was fine until I pulled it out and touched it...all the enamel came off but the Stamped numbers are fine. Luckily I got it's sister Band Saw with it which is pristine (well covered) and its plate is identical & pristine. The originals are .050 AL but for all the time and energy I've put into restoring it been kicking around a brass one with the OEM detail and numbers that I can put a nice Restored by and date for whom ever gets it next...likely my son. They don't build them like these anymore and hopefully never sees a horse stall again. Your etching gave me the idea to hi res scan the one from the Band Saw and the stamped numbers from the dead one (again archaic font) and trace them if necessary in AI or ACAD to get it as original as possible. Thanks much for the Font links, I'll check them out and if none match, on to the tedious tracing. Thanks again! Always enjoy your work and videos!
...me from the beach in Weston-super-Mare, England (much too cold!) !! Lol! I only own an ink jet printer, but a shed load of Sharpies, so will try this, everything will have brass labels!!
This is the most comprehensive and informative video on this topic i've seen. I've been using the toner transfer method on aluminium for the branding on my product, and am thinking of offering a premium brass version so it's awesome to discover I can use similar processes. Also I never thought of using a laser to create the mask on a painted coating. I think i've gotta start using this approach as the printer and heating method has a high failure rate for me due to 'ghosting' and pinholes. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge :)
Awesome video, I also saw a video where they uses a type of plastic foil designed to use for etching. It uses UV light to transfer the protective layer. This method was very easy to use.
Yeah, it's called a UV resist, and does offer a little better result, but it requires the film and a source of UV light. The sun works, but is not reliable.
Beautiful work! The toner transfer method produces an amazing result. With such a high resolution, I bet you could do simple gradients and patterns using dithering. If it works well, it might be possible to do a dithered photograph.
Indeed, though I wouldn't do so high resolution. You can look at etched printing plates which were commonly used in letterpress printing up until the '80s for inspiration. I would recommend checking out the short movie "The Collection" on Vimeo, by Adam Roffman about a collection of old printing plates with some beautiful shots of plates displaying this halftone patterning. I think that quality is about the highest you can expect working.
This is perfect for my needs. I have many sign plates that would have cost an arm and a leg to have made in order to comply with boat safety regs. I will get a laser printer and make them myself. (May also look at the cost of a small vinyl letter cutter as one of the responses mentions good results.)
One method more is to do as in making a PCB. You spray the positive or negative etch resist on to your part and let it dry. Then have the design printed on a transparent sheet as black as you can get. Put the print against the etch resistant surface, shine UVA light on it enough (experimenting needed, usually 5-10 mins), remove the transparent sheet, develope the etch resist in sodium hydroxide solution (lye) and finally etch away :) Works always, doesn't creep under the resist much.
Yes, this is the traditional way of doing it, however the method I showcase doesn't require any special materials or tools. You can even forgo the laminator and use a clothes iron instead.
Most of the UV/photo resist materials will expose in simple sunlight. No special light exposure setup needed. And if spraying stuff isn't your thing, photoresist film is available. This also has the benefit of being able to reuse your printout. You can use inkjet or laser printer to print on transparency film. You could even use dot-matrix if you still have one of those. This method is less specialty tool intensive since you don't need a heat source other than the sun. This may be difficult for cave dwellers though.
We've been trying out metal etching and you can also use an iron to apply heat to bind print to the metal instead of a laminator (if you don't have one).
I think I mention that in the video, no? But yes, you absolutely can, but it's much more difficult to get good even results, especially over larger surfaces.
Toner held up good the other two broke down. If you have the money you can use Kodak photo resist. Ferric Chloride will permanently stain most everything it touches, clothing, concrete, etc.
You should agitate the chemistry. Being an surface oxidation process you need the mechanical action on the surface. Also would suggest adding som HCl to the mix :D Try to heat up to 54 C to get an optimum reaction - and for a smooth surface maybe try to get the acid slightly saturated with Cu :) Anyway, love your innovative ideas :) Would love to connect!
Haha i love the Clickspring reference!:) I noticed at 10:32 you said that you could sprinkle baking soda on there too neutralize the acid, wich is correct. But well im swedish too so i recognized the can you were pouring from, that looked a lot like a bakpulver can and that's a mix of bikarbonat (baking soda) and citric acid! So it will foam and fizz in contact with water not acid! Because there is already acid in powdered form in there!!
You are correct about the baking powder, and what was in the can once. These days I'm just using it as a canister for baking soda so I don't have to use the big 1kg box of it. It's a bit more practical :)
excellent video 100%!! super cool to include the whole lifetime of the project (disposal and recycling) fantastic! why did the special laser paint fail? again super great job
I honestly don't know. I'm guessing something in the paint was attacked by the acid. The coating bonds with the brass (or steel) which it is laser etched onto, and it's tough to the point of needing to be sanded off if you want it gone. My assumption is that whatever they use to make this special paint doesn't hold up to ferric chloride. I did another test off camera and had the same result, so all things considered it's most definitely an issue with the paint+acid.
Not quite, if you look at the second and third plates they were both etched in the laser on similar settings, but with different coatings. The kerf had minimal, if any, effect in this.
You could use NaOH to precipitate the aqueous copper to copper (II) hydroxide and then neutralise the remaining liquor with HCl. Alternatively, you could remove it by electrowinning.
Yep, you could, but generally that's less accessible for most people. You could definitely buy drain cleaners or other household chemicals which contain those compounds, but as far as evaporation go it doesn't really get much easier than that. You could also speed up the evaporation by pouring it into a glass flask, or ceramic pot, and heating it, if you so desire.
I'm not sure how a laser printer is going to help anything here. Did you mean to say "laser cutter"? The laser cutter won't touch the metal at all, unless you have a specialized fiber laser. Those are far less common than CO2 lasers.
So... It's essentially etching a printed circuit board. I have had good results from using a cheap Brother HL-2240 laser printer I got for $10 at the local second hand store. Lots of people say this printer is bad for etching. Personally I believe most people get bad results because of laminators. They are more unpredictable IMO. I use a travel type clothes iron. That type doesn't have steam and the associated holes in the surface. I try to find a piece of magazine print that is mostly glossy white and print to it. *A word of warning,* the laser printer itself uses a very hot drum to melt the ink onto the paper. Some glossy paper used in magazines can't handle the heat and will melt a bit. I would exercise caution before adding tape to anything I am running through a laser printer. If you get junk on the heated roller your going to damage the printer. I have never had problems with printing on paper that is cut close to the standard A4 size within about 80-90%. Just get your sides kinda straight and be sure the ink will print on the paper part first. I always do a test print on white paper first. Disclosure, I've never created content on this subject, so don't waste your time checking. I casually upload stuff I find interesting, but am not monotized, nor do I plan to be. These were just some tips from what I have had success with. Further on the subject of etching plates, some people etch aluminum and glass using a similar technique, although the professional method uses dry film photoresist with clear transparencies. The main benefit of photoresist is the fine detail accuracy, so I've been told. I can resolve 0.25 mil traces using the technique I mentioned above.
I've had so bad luck with clothes irons, and always get consistently good results with laminators though. The key is that you have to feed it though a bunch of times on the highest heat. You need to transfer enough heat into the brass and toner to melt them together. As for taping the magazine paper, well, you see in the video how it looked like without the backer. Had to basically tear apart the whole side of the printer to get it out. It simply couldn't handle that thin paper. If you find thicker glossier paper that may be better, but may also require more work to get off afterwards.
Switch & Lever I understand ;) I didn't expect to melt a page, the time that happened to me. I started using junk mail flyers after that one. The page that melted on me was from an old oversized European magazine I had laying around. It looked like they had some kind of plastic component in the paper itself. There are always little odd ball issues like this when using random stuff. Most people that have posted content that includes tape for use with laser printers/laminators tend to use kapton tape (the high temp stuff). I find it interesting that you used blue tape without problems. It uses a different kind of adhesive than masking or packing tapes and that looks like a solution for some. I think there are also issues with the brand/type of laser printer. A lot of people say that the HL-2240 printer I have is terrible for etching because they can't get the ink to transfer off of the paper. From what I've read, this printer uses a hotter than average drum to bond ink to the page. I use an iron for around 5 minutes straight and the resulting bond is so strong I can scratch the paper backing off with a fingernail without losing ink or details. I think a lot of problems people have had with this printer are due to the heat and pressure needed for transfer. I can't imagine a laminator coming close to the heat and pressure of 5 minutes under an iron. I also use particle board under the piece I'm transferring to. It seems to be the best insulator to keep heat where I need it. I'm glad you posted this. I've been trying to motivate myself to make a few little label plates for some projects instead of my tacky black or silver sharpie markings. It's always helpful to see a well made video demonstrating how to do the job. Now I just need to get the nerve to try dry film photoresist I ordered a month ago ;) Thanks -Jake
@@UpcycleElectronics Question: would it be possible to disconnect the heat set roller so it does not fuse the toner to the paper? I ask this because I have removed many a jammed page from laser printers that jammed after the toner was deposited but before the heat roller and the image is perfect, but one puff of air and its gone.
@@mdunbar008 I'm no expert on printer designs. I vaguely recall reading that the laser is used to control static charge on the drum, which then controls where the toner powder will stick. Then the paper is rolled over the drum directly followed by the heated roller. I believe this means the toner stays stuck to the paper based on the same static. I know, from watching another channel that creates uploads about repairing printers, there is a charge on the drum itself. This charge controls the amount of toner that is distributed onto the drum. The charge is variable according to the amount of toner left in the cartridge, ie when the cartridge is full the voltage is lowest, when toner is low the voltage is highest. (*Edit or maybe it was the other way around...let's just say: change in toner level = change in drum voltage) This ensures that the toner deposition rate is even. This is also why it is important to "reset" a toner cartridge if refilled. Continuing this tangent one step further...I plan on modifying my printer to manually set this voltage in order to control the toner distribution and attempt to create darker prints than otherwise possible. If you want to disconnect the heater it should be really easy. The heater has a wire connector. It usually has relay based control on the board as well. The element must be able to be switched off before an over temperature condition happens. That is about all I know when it comes to this subject. Marco Reps has some really old uploads about using a lexmark laser printer to do some direct to PCB printing like this. IIRC he had to use a special printer that had a direct feed through option used to print CD labels. I think he did something to the printer where the product was not "fused." I recall he was using an acetone vapor technique to fix the toner to his boards. I think he abandoned that project though, either because of resolution or the single sided limitations of such a process. I probably have those uploads of his saved in one of my PCB fabrication playlists. I haven't saved a bunch of stuff on those lists in awhile so they will be pretty low on my publicly available playlists, but I have around 5-6 different pcb fab playlists covering all aspects, -all references to other people's stuff :-) -Jake
Yep, I mention that in the video as well. You need to expose it to UV light though, not just any light, and it does require extra material, as well as printing on transparencies.
I am surprised that you didn’t try filling the etchings with colored wax. Give it a good rub with a crayon and then polish it off the surface. Nice and clean.
