I was an apprentice mechanic at a helicopter company. I wondered why the owner kept timed-out rotor blades. Then one day Bell announces these range of blades have another 500 hours on them. Suddenly these expensive parts are serviceable again!
Awesome video as usual. According to Jason Hill from Hill Helicopters, most private owners use their copter for ~200hrs/yr which equates to $650 TCO per hr. Leasing it back to a company such as BCH or finding some buddies to jointly own and operate the Cabri G2 would be a way to bring up the utilization rate of the aircraft. However, your partners need to be absolutely trustworthy... Keep up the great vids. PS: How may G2's are in the field by now on a ww basis? Per wikipedia it's just ~200 by 2017. Will the development cost ever amortize that way? With the HX50 en route the market will fragment even more.
This is super cool data! We all wished that most operators would share that information. Every time I ask a TOC to an operator (without insurance, crew and fuel) and all give different values ... crazy. Thank you !!
I don't think I've ever seen a cost breakdown presented like this by a training unit. Awesome. It really helps the student because people tend to have that little voice in the back of their head saying "Man this is expensive - he must be making a fortune off me". Not so much. Anyway, I would hope you're making at least a 10% net margin on those machines.
@Riley Korbin Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site on google and I'm trying it out now. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Yeah, housing costs are through the roof where I live, and I could still buy a small house with this kind of money. Seeing as I don't even own a house, I'm gonna pass on buying a helicopter.
Thank you for the insight in to a different world of flying. I fly fixed-wing and pay the bills on an elderly-but-serviceable Beech Musketeer. My insurance is about $CDN1500 a year, a far cry from what you pay. The engine (O-320) is on condition, 1300 hours/28 years SMOH. Some day I'll have to make some hard decisions...
@pilot yellow This is great overview of fixed and variable cost for the helicopter. Will you consider making a video on what you do to keep the utilization high for your helicopters (marketing, partnerships with other companies, etc.)? Keeping those helicopters flying is key to lower the hourly cost.
Im in NZ and did initial training in a Cabri. Great machine and with awesome instructor who had 24k hours. Unfortunately over here in the last 12 months insurance has skyrocketed, nearly doubled. My flying school pulled the pin and shut down, others likely to do the same. Talked to people with amateur built machines like Safaris and they have stopped insuring them.
I think you might be overestimating the fixed annual costs. If you look at the ownership cost, you can add just expected depreciation and interest. So, instead of $93k/year, it'd be .06*390k or $23,400. Add any expected depreciation over 5 years. As you said, depreciation won't be very much because a maintained helicopter will hold a lot of value. The maintenance costs are already built in separately. Say you can sell it for 300k after 5 years. Then, total ownership is $23.4k + $18k/year in depreciation (assuming you can sell it for $300k after 5 years) = $41.4k. This would put the 1000 hour operating cost at $120+41.40 = $161.40!! Sounds much better!
Back in the past when I owned a Cessna 150 Aerobat, it was maintained by a flight school who hired it out when I wasn't using it. They got more flying hours out of it than I ever did as my job meant that I was flying or being flown in other aircraft. So whilst I paid the upfront cost of the aircraft, all I paid for subsequently was fuel, lubricants, charts and landing fees [when landing elsewhere]. Does that sort of "leaseback" arrangement work in Canada?
Operating costs and depreciation are two different things. I operate my R44 for the same cost per hour as you have quoted for the G2, and figured the same way you figured it for the G2. Thus the G2 is not a good value per hour. BUT...if I tried to sell the R44 at any point in it's life OTHER than immediately coming out of a 12 year overhaul, yes, my hull value relative to it's original cost would be less than it might be for a G2. Operating costs (fixed and variable) vs. depreciation (resale value) = apples and oranges. I'll take four seats over two for the same operating cost per hour any day of the week.
@@APenNameAndThatA-oq7gt Do you own a helicopter? Bet you don't. You have no idea what you are talking about. There were 16 G2's in the USA at the end of 2016. At the end of 2022 there were 44 on the FAA registry. That's a sales rate of less than 5 helicopters per year. If you don't believe me, then believe everyone else in the USA that buys helicopters and can figure the finances. The G2 is an R22 for the cost of an R44. No matter how sexy or "advanced" they are they don't make economical or practical sense for schools or private owners. Robinson delivered 244 helicopters of all types in 2021--they are CRUSHING Guimbal. You can't beat the price/performance/cost-to-own & operate a Robinson and the market knows it.
Mischa, I really enjoy your videos and appreciate your opinion. Could you please address the ultra light and experimental helicopters such as the Mini 500, Mosquito, Rotorway etc.? I would love to know your thoughts about these. I come to you from the middle of nowhere so my access to a helicopter is very limited so I am looking for something I could afford to have in my garage and fly for fun.
I was curious about real numbers too, which is why I'm disappointed that the video was just him reading the Guimbal estimated costs from here: www.guimbal.com/downloads/cabri-g2-operating-cost-usa.pdf
It might be harder for him to say given that they do maintenance in house, as opposed to going elsewhere where you can just add up the invoice amounts.
Another great video. I am slowly working my way through all of them. I am planning to learn from you one of these days. Working on the funds now. A question about the Bladder and seatbelt replacement. That means that the bladder is roughly $10,000? And, that includes labor?
I think what scares a lot of would be pilots away from helicopters is the hourly cost of training if you are an average person you have to get the commercial license in order to fly on somebody’s else’s dime. For myself I am colour blind so I can’t hold a commercial license, so fixed wing was the only way I could fly and afford it. I started to fly at copac in 1978 when the cost was $35 dollars a hour wet
What I've learned from the video: 1,000 hrs annually... 1,000 hrs / 12 months equals 83.33333333333333 hrs per month , the rotorcraft needs to fly to be able to pay the bills... 83.33333333333333 hrs per month * Operating costs at 223 per hr. equals 18,583.33333333333 total per month ... 18583.33333333333 minus 7,539.79 payment ( 390k 5 yrs @ 6% APR ) on helicopter equals 11043.54333333333 saved for variable and fixed costs. 223 per hr is a low cost because most helicopter schools charge more than this to fly... My cost on a R44 to learn on is about 580 dollars per hour. So, Pilot Yellow is leaving out what he is taking home per month. But, I think I understand the numbers. Pilot Yellow, All of your numbers are great. However, no credit union or bank here in the USA will finance a 390,000 US Dollar rotorcraft to you without the financial statement to back up your numbers. So, a normal citizen like myself couldn't finance a Cabri G2. It sucks too because I understand the numbers. At the end of the day, if you don't have the financial statement to handle these numbers, you can't have a rotorcraft personally... !!! That's the elephant in the room.... !!!
83.33333333333333 hrs per month need to pay bills on the rotorcraft divided by 20 workdays per month equals 4.166666666666667 hrs of flight per workday on the rotorcraft. Basically, the Cabri G2 needs to fly about 4 to 5 hrs per workday to pay the bills on it, if it's 100% financed. I arrived at my numbers from a 251 workday year.
I'm sure the Helicopter will sit around in the winter months, so you would have to double up on hours in the Spring and Summer months. With a large enough down payment, you could probably make the flight time on the craft per workday too 2 to 3 hrs per workday then double it in the spring and summer to 4 to 6 hrs per workday. You would need probably 5 to 10 students to pull it off throughout each month. I might be high on the students each month.
Hi Micha Thanks for that overview. One thing I wonder, you say that margins are really low. Are there that many helicopter training companies around that you have to offer such low prices? Thanks a lot and fly safely.
I think you have to keep them low to attract students, otherwise it becomes unrealistic for people to pay so much for a career that isn't going to make you rich.
This video on his top 10 features of the Cabri can give you an idea: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7CWYv4WKLWA.html Regarding safety,: 1.) Fully articulated rotor head -> no risk of mast bumping 2.) Fenestron -> less hazard for surrounding people and reduced chance of tail rotor strikes 3.) Crash attenuating seats (mainly in comparison to the R22, used for flight instruction)
Hey Mischa, curious which insurance provider(s) you work with. I know the devil is in the details, but I've been quoted much higher (3-5x) for insurance than you mentioned in the video.
Am not money short by any means but believe me I wouldn't buy a chopper unless I couldn't do with out one. A good example would be if I had at least two different land development sites and each site should be atleast 6 hours away from my house. Each project should be giving me at least £1500000 only then would I look at buying a Helicopter.
Nice information video, thank you. Just curious,I live in the US and I was just wondering if you think the Cabri market will be hotter if the blades rotated counterclockwise like many US based helicopters? Have you heard any news of this as well? Thanx again
Hi from France ...., thank you , very interesting ... i understand the cabri is a very good machine for professional ... to train ... but what you thing for a private pilote who want fly for pleasure only 70 h per year ? and what you think about the R44 is not the best choice concerning financial point of view ? take care and fly safe
Hmmm.... sounds like the G2 is the way to go.... I wonder if I can convince my flight school to switch? Lol. But then again, switching out 9 R22s might be a bit spendy....
Hello Mischa! This might not be the appropriate video to ask, but I was wondering about your opinions regarding flying a european vs. american helicopters. Particularly with regards to the different direction of rotation of the main rotor, since this will affect how you compensate the counter-torque in the pedals. What are your thoughts on this? Maybe other viewers would also be interested in your answer. Best regards, I really enjoy your channel! Ernesto
I have a question. If I wanted to fly 150 hour on a cabri G2, would it be cheaper to SFH it @£390 GDP or buy a Cabri and sell it on after a few hundred hours? Would a cabri lose £58,000 in value after 150 were flown on it?
Can only comment on the Blackhawk but would assume the same for the Apache. The rear stabiliser(tail wing) is an active flight component which will move up and down controlled by the flight computer depending mainly on the air speed of the aircraft. Fully down in the hover and slow flight to minimize the amount of nose high attitude and starts to move up (flatter angle) when transitioning into fwd flight to keep the aircraft in level flight trim. There is a manual override sw in the cockpit for the stab movement by the pilots, but this is only used when the automatic system fails. If the system fails, u will get an audio warning in the headset and the stab will stop moving
Howdy Micha, today all two Runways closed in Munich ! As well terminals ! Yes I'm from Germany, what you think how many folks can fly to your flight school ?
Hey mischa, i was wondering if you own a ppl (H) can you operate a light sport helicopter with the same rules as a cabri etc ? surely reduces ownership and operating costs thanks for those videos
There is not a lag. All fenestron tail rotors have a non-linear response so that much more travel is required to get to the effective range and this is the difference.
In Italy, students spend sixty thousand up to eighty thousand euros for sixty hours of flight, calculate the costs per hour of the helicopter and you will have the final income
Great video. The only annoyance is, in English the word "you" is already plural, there is no need to keep saying "you guys" to address the general audience.
Someone explain to this guy basic accounting. Please stick to flying and not try to explain how some aircraft depreciate and some dont. All aircraft depreciate. SMH
Not a great representation of numbers. Helicopter rentals or flight school companies wants people to believe owning and operating a 2 or 4 seat heli for about 150hrs per year will cost you the budget of a space shuttle mission!!!! This is biased operating cost decription from a flight school owner point of view to justify their hourly rental charges.
I don't believe this is a sensible look at costs. You have taken the whole cost of the helicopter and divided it over 5 years. This would assume a 5 year old Cabri is worthless - is it ? I am guessing at used values but I would imagine the annual fixed costs would be half of what is stated.
I believe it's broken down in a way that the hourly cost is able to pay for the monthly payment to the bank. If he priced in the resale value. The hourly cost would drop below the monthly payment.
@@gioacevedo5 Well he is allowing $520K to be paid over 5 years surely you would own it at that point - question is what is it worth at 5 years and the more hours you have done the less the value. But if you sold it for say $250K then your actual fixed annual cost would have been approx $50K per year
@@questions6180 correct, its higher because hes paying 6% interest over 5 years. But I think he's implying that he doesn't plan to sell it. So the hourly cost will drop once its paid off. But he's giving his CURRENT hourly cost. Because as a business owner you can not manage your accounting thinking about how much you will sell it for. His hourly costs have to pay the Bills and still make profit. But you're correct in the fact that If he pays it off or sell it, his over head will drop, there fore hourly cost will drop
Also if he keeps it after that 5 years and continues operating at the same level that’s 90k a year in basically profits, if you save that cash and keep bird for 10 years and sell it for 100k you could pay cash for a new one or two. Or in situations like now you can use those profits from last year to keep paying all your bills when you can’t operate your business. It’s all about being efficient with the assets you have. If you can get it paid off in the first 5 years then you can relax a bit and if it doesn’t fly 1000 hours per year it’s not a huge deal. The point is when the bank owns it, the margins are skinny, after you own it is when you can really make some money.