All the stars finally align in Part 4 and we literally beat this Acura into submission... Part 1: • Acura 3.2 crank no-sta... Part 2: • Acura 3.2 crank no-sta... Part 3: • Acura 3.2 crank no-sta...
Very nice diagnostics Ivan. In the previous video with the cam sensor waveforms, I believe you mentioned that it was about 0.5V in amplitude. I wondered if that was too low, but then it had an RPM signal with the crank sensor wire cut. I said to myself, it must be something else. Hell, who would have ever thought? Great stuff!
+stuzman52 I think the lesson here is that when measuring pulses from VRS sensors, one should look for at least 1.5V peak to peak amplitude at the slowest designed operational speed (cranking in this case). Same goes for ABS sensors! You can see why the engineers often prefer the more predicable but complex hall-effect type sensor for these applications. Thanks for he comment, Terry!
Amazing feat under fire Ivan, well done. As soon as I saw those beautiful 'known' good waveforms I sez, well there's your problem !! But that don't help solve the puzzle much, finding the fuzz sticking up that's just priceless. I thought it was the bad crank sensor and wondered why you didn't test it on it's own to see what it's waveform looked like without the computer in the picture at all - that's were I would have wasted my time at.
Ivan, As I've mentioned to Paul and Matt, I find these cases with the extremely bizarre or obscure causes and resolutions to be some of the very most useful and educational. They are also some of the most interesting and enjoyable, because we can all pretend to "play detective", so there's a lot of entertainment value there. It forces us (in hindsight, yes) to have to go back and think about the very most absolute basic mechanical construction of the engine. I encourage all of you to try to film, document, and post video's about the most bizarre head scratching cases you get. Things like twisted camshafts (I still can't believe that) and camshafts that have huge fore and aft play will be extremely rare to see in practice. BUT, they are not impossible. You are young and early in your career, so you might see these things again (well, maybe not the twisted cam). So although you lost your butt on this job (I assume), you'll remember this one for the rest of your life, probably. There is a fascinating video on the Autonerdz site, I think it is called something like "The Jeep From Hell". I defy anyone to figure THAT one out before the end of the video. We all need to remember that ANYTHING can happen, and when a mental construct can not be devised that explains what the evidence shows, we need to go back further and further to find the "lowest level known good mechanical functioning" situation. A sort of "back to first principles" kind of thing. What I mean by that strange phrase is to think about the basic physical structure and design of the block, crank,, pistons, camshafts, heads, valves, (even pushrods on older engines), timing chain or belt, along with all the rotational bearings, thrust bearings and proper rotating clearances. Paul has done at least two or three videos where the answer turned out to be a timing chain that was installed one or two teeth off (AT THE SCHOOL!!). After all, (excluding variable valve timing), the basic concept and construction of all the above named components is still the same as it was 50 years ago. Sometimes I like to think of the engine as being "two halves". The lower half, meaning all the mechanical stuff I just named, and the "upper half", meaning everything above the block and heads, including all the sensors, the ignition, fuel system, air intake system, egr, pcv, and all the electronic controls. This case and the twisted cam case point out that even people who aspire to be great diagnostics experts need that knowledge to be built ON TOP of the basic understanding of how the 4 stroke internal combustion engine is constructed and how it works mechanically. Thanks for taking the time to film, document, and comment on this job. I'm sure it took at least twice as long because of the filming and commentary explanation. Not that it was going easy WITHOUT the filming! It also takes real guts to document one's mistakes and let them be seen by the whole world. I have a lot more trust in somebody who willingly admits their mistakes or moments of "what do I do now" than I do the people who say they almost never make mistakes. By the way, the dual key solution was absolutely brilliant. Since discovering you and your channel about a week ago through bouncing around between danner, south main, and matt, I've watched well more than half your stuff. I don't watch stuff (on any channels) about wheel bearings, brakes, exhaust, and other "undercar" stuff only because I have no interest in that area. I look forward to a future of continuous personal learning and growth thanks to the generosity and extreme talent that you few have. I wish I could find another dozen channels as good as what you "big four" produce. If we could get Steve Rob, Billy R, DJDevon and a few of the other brilliant people who comment on those channels to do video's, we'd be in sweet heaven. Young mechanics and diagnosticians today have no idea how lucky they are to have all the educational resources that they do, along with the equipment and tools that have evolved. Back in my day, when there were dinosaurs behind the large rocks, all we had were expensive books (most of which weren't very good), an igntion scope, and sometimes a 3 gas analyzer (we were lucky if it was calibrated and not broken, which was asking for a lot). Very best to you for your future. How about doing a video and telling us some of your "life story" so far. It sounds like you have a college degree and even some grad school. And you're working on cars? And what's with this whole russian thing? Ты ГОВОРИШЬ ПО-русски ? Sincerely, douglas
+douglas lee Wow Douglas thank you for the comments! I'll tell you right now that those really bizarre case studies were way more thrilling to figure out than playing with lasers in grad school haha. This channel is only a few months old, but the interest and engagement has been amazing! I have a lot of great ideas for videos in addition to the live case studies, like a "Physics of Automotive Electronics" lecture-style seminar if people are interested. This would start with basic electrical concepts and build up to the inner workings of piezo-electric knock sensors, mutual inductance in an ignition coil, and the material science of a zirconia O2 sensor... Definitely have to do a "how I got here" vid and an intro to the channel. This is only the beginning and the possibilities are endless. Any other things that you would like to see discussed in the videos? Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
+motoYam82 Ivan,Here's my very initial response, without thinking about it at all.......I'll probably be able to give better feedback in a few days after I think about the possibilities......First, think about what Paul and Matt do, and try to differentiate yourself. Your channel should be a compliment to, not a reproduction of.I would skip the basic electrical, in terms of basic ac and dc circuit theory. Disclaimer: I went to vocational school many many years ago to become an electronic technician. I did very well in school and absorbed everything they were teaching me.SO, for ME PERSONALLY, most of the electrical stuff is very easy. However, I realize that for a large percentage of auto techs the electrical stuff is one of the hardest subsets. Paul has a lot of basic electrical lectures on his Premium channel, but I haven't even watched them yet (don't need to).But, there are lots of sites to learn about basic electrical principles.However, the aspects that I DO think would be worthwhile as applied to automobiles would be the inductance principles of ignition coils, how the secondary voltage gets across the gap and why it takes more voltage to jump a compressed mixture.I would leave the physics and electro chemistry of O2 sensors for down the road. Matt did like a three or four part series on O2's trying to answer the question of whether they sense oxygen or hydrocarbons, and I think he lost 90 percent of his audience (including me) by the third segment. I'm not sure he ever came up with an answer.But, I personally would like to know if the oscillating voltage on an O2 output is due to the PCM varying it's impedance, or is it due to the PCM changing the mixture at the frequency of the mixure two times a second, creating the O2 oscillation, etc.I think most people only need to know that knock sensors respond at a certain frequency. I don't think it's necessary to explain HOW they do that, but rather explain WHY they do it and why it is important.I'll send along some more comments at another time. Paul and Matt know that once I start talking I'm pretty hard to shut up.But, I really like your videos. What most people don't understand about youtube videos that people like you, Matt, and Paul do, is that it is the PERSONALITY of the presenter that is one of the critical factors.If you're not familiar with EEVBLOG, check it out. Dave is outrageous, which is part of why people watch him.Stutzman is a very knowledgeable electrical engineer, and he has decent content, but if there is a more boring personality on youtube I haven't found it yet (sorry Stutz').You have a magnetic screen presence. Your extreme intelligence and crisp mind come across wonderfully. Your humor helps a lot also. Keep that up. You're doing very very well in terms of not babbling or wasting screen time by repeating yourself. Your flow of thought and the chronological (and logical) order you go through is very good.Keep your happy positive attitude. The Acura series is probably one of the best, if not THE best set you have done, in my humble opinion.It is the sense of adventure. We watch to learn, but we also watch to be a "part of something", even if it is only in our office or living room. We like the "thrill of the chase". I'll bet that a majority of the serious viewers that all three of you have are trying to figure out the problem in real time, right along with you. Sometimes we're right, and sometimes we're not. But we do get comforted by watching Matt screw up his face and say "What the phkk is going on here"?I think I can promise that not one guy in 500 would have thought aout the camshaft "walking", as an explanation on the Acura.If I may speak for the masses, it is the cases where the presenter is pulling his hair out with frustration or confusion that turn out to be the most valuable in the end.I've been around car technology for almost 40 years (as a very low level amateur) , and I've never heard of the thrust bearings on a camshaft being so bad that the shaft moves back and forth.Not sure if I've ever heard of a twisted camshaft either, unless it was in a NASCAR or NHRA level engine.THERE'S a subject for ya if ya wanna get into the physics of combustion and acceleration............explain how a nitro car can burn 4 gallons of fuel in 3 and a half seconds.......of how the driver can go from zero to 330 mph in 4 seconds without blacking out......Oh, and yeah, definitely tell us a little about yourself and your life so far. Matt and Paul have both told their stories pretty well (as least on Paul's Premium he did).Education, heritage, personal evolution, how and why a grad student is fixing cars, etc. And my favorite part.............how in the world a mechanic can live on a horse farm and have a Verus AND an Autel and a van and an SUV and several mmmountain bikes and a motorcycle (only one?) and all the other stuff you have. And you're just a pup (no offense). You inherited million's, right?Take care buddy-douglas
Good job Ivan. I know the feeling when you are confronted with a tough diagnostic. I just had a problem on a 60ft Articulated Bus about a month ago or so that had a Hot Trans light. What was causing the Hot Trans was low supply voltage issues. I found a bad Alternator, corroded speed solenoid contacts to the Ac Evap Motors that was drawing down the system voltage because the motors couldn't develop enough back voltage and on top of that the Condensor speed switch was open and keeping the Condensor Fans on High Speed. This wreaked havoc with the Electrical system and basically confused the Trans Computer so much that the Trans Computer went into default shifting which doesn't have as much cushioning from shift to shift. This made the Trans overheat. Between doing other diagnostic jobs at the shop I was on this one for 4 days. Unfortunately sometimes some jobs take more time due to the extent of the problems it has.
+busjockey1 That does sound like a nightmare! It's always the compound problems masking each other that make for great diagnostic adventures. I think that crazy cases like these are fantastic learning opportunities that will make us wiser and more determined as diagosticians, even though sometimes it feels quite frustrating. Thanks for sharing!
I'm a retired Powertrain Engineer. I admire your tenacity, Ivan! As hard as manufacturers try to test for all failure modes, there are always going to be unknown failure modes they cannot anticipate. The real great mechanics/technicians, like you and Eric from SMA, are what it takes to peel away the layers of the onion to get to the heart of the problem(s). Thanks for posting, I know it takes a lot of time and effort.
I'm so glad I found your channel. When I see Steve Rob in the comments, then I know this channel is official. Looking forward to binge watching your videos.
I wish I watched this video because I’m going through the same problem on my 2000 Acura TL and I have spent a lot money buying spark plugs yet the whole time it was just a hit on my cam shaft sensor
Well, that was tough. congratulations.What I had experienced is that SOMETIMES getting to technical gets me in trouble. i seen guys that hardly know how to hook a test light fixing similar problems.Just by looking and removing or wiggling. But that most mechanics can do. What really matters is to know how to interpret signals and that makes a TECHNICIAN.
Ah ha the ol claw hammer fix. Wow I have a pretty good idea of the investment you have in time, knowledge and tools.It's awesome to watch you apply your trade. Thank you so much for sharing.
Would like a video showing the different inputs and outputs on the scope and what signals are required for startup and those to maintain operation.Also the role played by the different components.The reason why some signals have to coincide and what happens when they don't.
Another thought................ Maybe create and post a video specifically asking all of your regular viewers what THEY want to see, or what they think they would be most interesting or beneficial to them.
I know this vid is 3 yrs old, but holy sh^t.. I've never in my 25 yrs seen a Honda do that. I thought for sure that the problem was with the reluctor wheel on the crank, since the guy mentioned some teeth were 'bent'.. ( how does that happen!?) Either that, or something was pulling down the cam signals electrically ( shorted wire) causing a weak signal to the PCM. I've seen that before on lots of vehicles. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the thrust bearing surface is machined into the head and cam caps (retainers) on those, so the fix would be, replace the head, cam caps, and possibly the cam itself? I think at that point, I'd be looking for a used mill, or remanned. GREAT vid!
+Steve Rob Yup, couldn't do much without a scope here! Having 4 channels was also nice :) Still can't believe that a good old hammer was the last tool needed for this job haha
Nice job Ivan! Sure is nice to have a good waveform to reference and then you went right to the CMP sensor. This one will stick in your head. I watched a video with the Autel reprogramming the immobilizer and they actually lost the keys to the vehicle so he had a new set (requires 2 keys) and deleted the old keys and then added the new keys and once it does the 1st key it'll reprogram as many as you set.
Awesome find. Just when you think you have seen it all something else comes along. The Acura and the Hyundai that you helped Eric O with are two of the most obscure failures I have ever seen.
I've had metallic debris cause a problem for ABS wheel sensors. The debris on the camshaft sensor in the Acura may be contributing to weak signal. Enjoyed Video!
Great series Ivan. Followed you from SMA. Nice to see you not edit out the PCM call, wow that problem was confusing & the crank sensor having had B+ from the Vtech wiring i think alot of technicians would have made the same call
The older Acuras were plagued with main relay failure issues . (Can locate and tap it if u suspect it's the calprate and it might just start if that's the issue .
after watching part 3 my train of thought was a mechanical issue not electrical but I was surprised to see the cam bounce I was sure it was related to the harmonic balancer being molested glad u stuck with it tho a lot of others would have give up a long time before you
+Ashley Perry Well-abused vehicles like this often have multiple problems...it was mentally difficult to look past the obvious known issues of the crank sensor and go in a different direction. Thanks for your thoughts!
i spent the day trying to figure out why i had crank no start. You think that cam is walking or the tapping is temporarily correcting something in the sensor? I'm going to replace that sensor tomorrow morning.
Great great video , im on the tread mill running and made my run go by fast. These are the problems that separate diagnostic techs from backyard mechanics !!! Great work keep em coming . This is a truly raw video .
Just made my guess from 3 and yes I was wrong but how the heck does a cam's end play get that bad unless somebody was in there and touched it inappropriately just like with the crank sensor? What a damn shame that a good car got sodomized like that by not only a parts hanger but one who thinks they know something when they don't. You have a good spirit to not reveal frustration in times like that.
someone help please i don’t know much about cars my Acura is my first car I was on my way home from work. MIND YOU WORK IS 20 MINUTES AWAY FORM ME. I was about 5 mins away from home and while i was turning a corner my wheel gets stiff and my car gas gets stiff as well. i turned my car off then tried turning it back on and it never started back up. what can it be? i been doing my own investigation looking at videos and i’m thinking maybe alternator/starter? someone let me know if those can be possibilities!
Great result Ivan! You certainly did beat it into submission! But did you manage to charge and get paid for the 20 Hours? But hey what a satisfying result. Well done
I know it can be hard and easy to get mis lead grats to you for finding the cause I feel your pain with Euro cars tho I work for a road side service in england called the aa love the videos nice to see someone work with a same frame of diagnosis style as me I find now the swap tron is becoming more common year by year with workshops and also dealerships keep up the videos doin a good job
i have an 04 tl 3.2. it crank but no start. and its not getting spark. changed the spark plugs and the coils and still no spark. what should i look for now?
+James Barcellano Hindsight is always 20/20...the crazy thing was that the cam signals were right on that threshold to trigger the rpm signal and the injectors, but not even one spark on the ignition coils! You would think that either it works or it doesn't, but this one was stuck in no-man's land.
Pro techs are bad asses. Yet it takes a severe level of honesty and truth loving to be Ivan like.Liars are lazy part changers who even in 2019 are still "fixing" cars with no scanner or O scope skills.A pcm. that don't set codes immediately with the CRK sensor disconnected???Even with good PIDS ..... time to fire the dreaded computer cannon!! We get it bro.Never the less, a little luck for a real dragon slayer can be many things.....noticing small hisses , slight deformation of components,shine marks , friends with same car , green crusties ect. On the other hand those thieves amongst us would try to sell an engine job off the rip and cluelessly fix this car in ignorance. Don't you hate these guys who like to say " I knew it was something simple".
I appreciate the honest comment! Yes, I have met many guys who said "I knew it was something simple" after I got the car running for them! Just have to smile and say "yup, that wasn't so hard" :)
Hey I saw you on southmainautos's channel and I'd like your advice. My Yukon XL had 2 cracked heads so I bought a pair off ebay and replaced them and now have random multiple misfires. The truck drives fine it just lopes at idle. My scanner says the downstream O2 sensors are running rich. It's 92% on both of them and it doesn't change with rpm. The compression is terrific so I suspect the cats from burning all the coolant. Can you give me any direction to go here?
It drives great. At idle there's a slight stumble every few minutes or so but it's not that bad. There's no EGR on this engine. The upstream sensors are switching back and forth perfectly and the fuel trim is fine at idle. Haven't tried it at cruising speed but I will when I get a chance. Thanks for getting back to me I really appreciate that.
+chris b Yeah probably, starting with an inspection to see where that cam walk is coming from. A cheap fix may be to shove a couple thrust shims in there to cut down on the cam shifting :)
nice! I say that would be the most economical way to fix it considering the amount of money that has been thrown at this vehicle already:) digging the video's keep them coming!!
Man i give it to u ....u now ur shit good i have spend 15 hours looking at ur job video and is impressive.? I'm connecticut and i wish u can take a look at my car .... Cause now I'm so afraid of bringing my car to a shop because it went fom one problem to a hole buch of codes . and i had repair done in a garage... Please advise me!!!!!
DAMN DAMN DAMN_I can't figure out why my comments are being printed without the paragrapjh breaks. I think it might be my browser. I'll start using a different one for posting comments._I know how horrible it is to read a big text block like that. So sorry, everybody.
this is the first time i watched all the parts and i am blown away, you should get the mechanic of the year award. was it just the loose pulley bolt or was it the camshaft bearings.
hello ivan great video just went threw all this with my 2003 acura tl and watched your video and i did hit my camshaft with hammer and it works turns right on it moves in question what would i have to do now replace my whole camshaft or just the camgear thanks
Wow you had the same problem?!? Cool! Well I would see what limits the camshaft movement inside the head. Maybe you can just install a thrust washer? Otherwise you would need a new head and camshaft.
Yeah lol same problem changed crankshhaft position sensor changed ecu immobilizer alot of work and came accross this video and hit it with a hammer and now it starts right up just wondering what step to take now if i have to change tge whole camshaft or what
motoYam82 i did noticed that there are two bolts missing on the other side of the head looks like the cam seal and it moves and leaks oil and is missing the bolts could it be that not holding it in place
motoYam82 i did noticed that there are two bolts missing on the other side of the head looks like the cam seal and it moves and leaks oil and is missing the bolts could it be that not holding it in place
Dont be amazed by you key-trasmitter "hack", at my company a drive broke of a the keyway of one key and we put in a new lock that came with new keys. To make the car run we just taped the bow with the broken of keyway to the new key bow ;) PS: The result/fault is so crazy!
+1kleineMax1 Nice! Yeah it's just annoying the manufacturer makes you go to the dealer for something as simple as getting a replacement key...especially for a clunker that no one wants to steal haha
Very good. I thought it might have been one tooth off on the cam timing. Boy was I wrong. Moral of the story ,if your car does not start ,hit it with a hammer. Ha Ha . Thanks for sharing..
Ivan I asked the question poorly.Tjr original Pcm would not show any codes when you disconnected some of the sensors. I was wondering if it does now register codes when sensors are disconnected. Tam.
I think the car had to be running for some of those checks to be complete. There was nothing wrong with the original PCM...so bad initial call on my part! Still, swapping in the junkyard PCM was the easiest way to rule that out haha
+motoYam82 I followed the video series, and as a tech, that was some excellent work! But thats a lot of talent and scan tool power to do it all for free. When I saw the odometer, I just rolled my eyes, lol
so that camshaft sensor hack job that guy did was the issue all along? man... you shouldn't even touch those kinds of cars where the owner or so called mechanic have no clue what they are doing..
Great job Ivan. I had a feeling that was the area. Iatn and Autonerdz have many good known waveforms in there library. Also I liked the bbb industries web site. Get a 4 channel Pico from Autonerdz. They offer a lot of free stuff. Check it out.
+Richard Gill I actually looked on IATN, but couldn't find anything on the 3.2 V6...And the 4-channel Pico looks very tempting! But in the field I can't think of a more convenient scope than the Verus
+JeredtheShy HAHA Denny and JD are quite the team of characters right? This is probably the funniest video series on my channel thanks to those two guys lol
Holy sh*t-buckets! Lucky me when I called the computer in a '92 civic recently, it turned out to actually be the problem. You don't want to call the computer unless you absolutely have to, especially when you don't have a scan tool or scope...
This study has shown me the true value of knowing good vs bad waveforms. Seeing the cam sensors putting out their initial waveforms made you move away from them being the problem. But if you knew that the amplitude should of been higher and they were both a match to each other then it most likely wasn't a 'sensor' problem but a cam 'signal' problem. That would lead to a visual inspection of the sensors and possibly an attenuation issue.
