For folks who wonder why Glorieta is called the Gettysburg of the West, focusing on the number of casualties misses the point entirely. Like Lee's campaign that ended at Gettysburg, Sibley's campaign was intended to invade Union-held territory. Because it failed, the Confederacy was unable to press its case for independence. In Lee's case, he hoped to sufficiently threaten Washington so that Lincoln would sue for peace and then leave the Confederacy alone. In Sibley's case, the Confederacy wanted/needed Pacific ports in California to be a viable player in global economics. Gettysburg stopped Lee's plan. Glorieta stopped Sibley's plan. So it's not the number of casualties but the impact on the war that makes Glorieta the Gettysburg of the West.
Chivington's grave is a few yards from my Grandfathers and Grandmothers. I was just there about a week ago in my old neighborhood. I grew up near there. When I was a kid we used to sneak into the cemetery at night, go visit Grandpa and take a whiz on Chivington. Ya he was the hero of Glorieta, but goes down in history as the villain of Sandcreek.
Lincoln sent Kit Carson to raise an army of New Mexicans who were mostly of Spanish decent. It was the New Mexican volunteers who were at the center of the Battle at Valverde and retreated in organized fashion as the battle went to the Rebels. The New Mexican volunteers played major parts in holding back and defeating the Texans. At Pigeon Ranch there used to be reenactments. BTW, Mesilla is pronounced Me-see-ya. I stopped by Ft Union last February - they have a cool gift shop.
As a new mexican nat. Guard cit/soldier / War historian I cannot express how greatful I am for these detailed battle videos. Thank you and keep up the good work brotha.
John Chivington earned high praise for his successes at Apache Canyon and Glorieta Pass. But, a captured Confederate Chaplain accused him of threatening to kill his prisoners. Chivington's military career was condemned, by a court-martial in 1865, after his men massacred more than 150 Cheyenne men, women and children, at Sand Creek in November, 1864, especially because the entire settlement was not at war, and peaceful.
This is yet another reason why I never would've fought for the Blue Coats (Union). You see, I'm pert Native American, and I totally resent the very fact, that Native Americans, left and right, were done wrong by the very ones that they made treaties with, time after time after time after time!
@@ronaldshank7589 The south would have treated them the same way. That doesn't make it any better of course. But they would not have anything to gain by fighting for either side. The same was true in the revolution.
@@ronaldshank7589 many tribes were allies and fought alongside the CSA. Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek etc. They both had a hatred for the US and practiced slavery.
@@Thisandthat8908 The Royal Proclamation of 1763 took measures to stop Colonial expansion West of the Appalachian Mountains. But, Westward Expansion into Indian Territories continued, despite the empire's endeavor to restrain it.
Edward Canby eventually was promoted to Major General. After the American Civil War, Canby continued to pursue his military career. In 1873, Major General Edward Canby was shot and killed, during failed treaty negotiations with the Modoc Tribes near Tule Lake, California.
I seem to remember a movie about all of this... let’s see... oh, yeah! That’s it! The greatest movie ever made! The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly! Watch for Sibley and his bodyguard, the Santa Fe Gamblers. And, most intriguing, could the Union officer arresting Tuco and Blondie be Captain James Paddy Graydon? Wow! And that desert scene, Journada del Muerte?
US Army Maj Chivington based on that destruction of the CSA supplies got a command that he led on attacks and massacre of several friendly, peaceful and allied (to the USA) Indian Tribes. For which we barely received a knuckle wrap.
@@chuckgrigsby9664 Soy Tejano asi que puedo hablar Espanol tambien. Muchos gringos Tejanos aprenden como hablar Espanol como idioma segunda porque es la primera idioma de tantas personas aqui.
That's this narrator's main problem: he frequently mispronounces words that a professional narrator would get right. Well written and researched scripts, though.
Hinted at. But this site is all about the battles, hence calling this a tactical victory for the confederacy when with the loss of its entire supply train it was hardly even that.
Dude, this was great! The moving battle maps showing the left and right flanks at each end of the pass was the crowning detail. actually, all the maps here were great.
Superb episode, Saris! Delighted to see that you were able to salvage the "Tappan Affair" and make that segment most historically-accurate. Good luck on Shiloh Part 1, though I don't doubt that you shall be able to handle it.
My grandfather fought with the 5th NM volunteers. He was among the Spanish whom knew the land and helped end the campaign by destroying confederate supplies. He fought protecting mcraes battery at valverde where his unit lost 75% of its men. He answered the call and fought the Texan aggression.
@@AZTLANSOLDIER13 there is a book written by jerry D Thompson that has historial records and the names of the soldiers and what units they served im pretty sure he may have.
The fight wasn't the Gettysburg of the West;it was the Union troops from Colorado on the verge of defeat and somehow they stumble on the baggage train and they put it all to the torch. I understand one man made it back to Texas where they had started. Chivington was a big hero and even had a hall named after him at C.U., but he was a killer of women and children and his name was sandblasted into infamy.
TY for putting this together. BUT, the "Gettysburg of the West" was Franklin TN n November 1864 (in 1850-60s states west of Appalachian Mountains were considered the western theatre of civil war military operations).
Kit Carson played an important role of raising a mostly Hispanic regiments of volunteers. The battle of Glorieta pass shows what happens when any army has issues with their supply chain in a desert country. The arid country meant a shoestring supply line and living off the land for the Confederates. These types of campaigns seldom work very well because the Union commanders only needed to hold on either through a seige of forts or through a stalemated military campaign. The Confederates would run out of supplies forcing them to go back to Texas. The history books are grim for the Confederates with the battle of Glorieta Pass, the "Gettysburg of the West." The long retreat to Texas was a death march for most of the Confederates. Union commanders kept the fighting to a minimum knowing full well after the Confederate supply train was destroyed they would have to retreat across a desert with little food or supplies. It was almost a virtual death sentence for the Confederates with far higher losses from starvation/exposure with a high death count for both animals and men with much loss of equipment. It was a small Confederate force that survived the long march back to El Paso, Texas. Union patrols found lots of bone dried skeletons of mules, horses and human remains picked clean by scavengers baking in the desert sun a year after the Confederate's disastrous retreat. The Colorado volunteers also played an important role in this battle with Colorado getting somewhat settled with a permanent population in the 1859 Gold Rush. The man named Chivington was also to battle Indians in Colorado later on. This massacre of mostly peaceful Indian tribes was disgusting but Chivington got good press for it. It seems unlikely that such a far off theater would see action during the Civil War but this early 1862 campaign leading up to the battle of Glorietta Pass and the Indian campaigns show this was an active theater of war during the Civil War despite its relative remoteness.
And Kit Carson will gain a notorious reputation when he begins a scorch earth method against the Navajo. Being of the tribe myself, I can say he is not not well liked, in fact he is hated by the tribe. Reports said the Navajo did follow the rules the Union set, but ended up being rounded up thanks to a few young dimwits.
Interesting video. My great great grandfather fought at the Battle of Glorieta for the Union. My family was given a land grant near Puerto De Luna New Mexico as part of his Union benefits. Great victory, unfortunately Chivington and the 1st Colorado volunteers would go on to sully their name by massacreing Cheyenne and Arapahoe women and children at Sand Creek
you should give your occupied land back to the rightful owners, the natives, and pay compensation for the crimes of your disgusting great grandfather-butcher
I live in Texas now but same here, had family from the Taos area that volunteered at Apache and Glorietta. I can remember when my dad returned from Vietnam and discharged at Ft. Bliss, we moved to Taos for a while and I remember playing in the attic of my grandfather's house one day and coming across a sabre, pistol w/ holster and belt a small military type saddle and old boots with spurs. I didn't think much of it then, but when I learned about the American civil war I remember this battle was never in the history books. When I would tell the teachers about it they thought I was making it up.
This entire series of Civil War videos by Warhawk is just phenomenal. Extraordinarily well researched and presented, plus put forth in an entertaining way. All of the videos so far are just exceptional, and why I subscribed. I hope he’s able to do the Overland campaign- The Wilderness; Spotsylvania; North Anna & Cold Harbor.
Great video. I have had the opportunity to visit the Glorietta Pass battlefield. Overgrown with trees, the area looks nothing like the battlefield did in 1862. However, the park has done a good job with markers and information. Be prepared for a bit of a hike though.
It’s nice to know New Mexico had battles here. While I could find only so much on the regiments here (Mainly the 2nd New Mexico Volunteer Regiment), I always wondered how different they were compared to more legendary units like the 20th Maine, or the 54th Massachusetts.
Sometimes I wonder if it is a computer program, and not a person with the way he mispronounces common words like Los Angeles, and Ulysses (as in Grant)
@@blackmoor40k Yeah that sounds likely...no pun intended. I just wanted to point it out as I do live in Mesilla and it is a quaint old Spanish village. Compete with a plaza surrounded by old southwest shops and a Basilica Church. It is where the Gadsden Purchase transfer of flags ceremony took place. Nice place to visit.
These are all great, thank you. But I pity you if you try to bite off the big guys like Shiloh, Antietam, and Gettysburg. Especially Gettysburg. Those Gettysburg guys need to lighten up.
great you have done trans Mississippi. Not as many big figured armies and famous campaigns but the West and Trans Mississippi campaigns and securing the border states were huge for the North. The Anaconda strategy divided and squeezed and the South was out numbered out gunned and in a bad way in every industry and Navy game was a joke of a difference. Amazing they in the East anyways were in the game and in good shape to at the minimum keep Richmond safe. When Grant with near 2-1 odds everywhere advanced in every sector it was to much. There was one ANV and commander of there commanding officer. He and Jackson before his death were tying down huge numbers of Union forces. They seemed to see it as they needed a game changing victory in the North where they may be in the spot to make the Northern pop. war weary which they were at times in 1862-1863. I think top Southern minds knew that they needed to win a quick war or get a peace where they may be recognized by one or more of the European powers. North just had to many resources in the time game.
Enjoyed your presentation. Just wanted to ask if you will do a presentation of Albert Sidney Johnston's "escape" from Los Angeles and the formation of the Los Angeles Mounted Rifles? An interesting story even if Johnston died at Shiloh. Thanks for teaching people about the Civil War.
I haven't read any books devoted to this campaign, but Shelby Foote's Civil War: A Narrative (vol. 1) has the best short written narrative of this battle that I've ever read. This video is an excellent supplement. I happily recommend both.
You are wrong in your assessment . There were different phases of the battle . Tho the Texans forced coloradoans back in the pass , the phase concerning the Texan supply train was a complete Colorado victory . Even tho most consider the battle a tactical draw , the strategic factor of ending the confederate campaign must be considered a union victory .
My English Comp class in college had the "Milagro Beanfield War" to read and do a report. I chose this battle because of the area was similar to the book, sort a history. My teacher found it interesting because I did not enjoy the book and wanted to write about something I had an interest. The movie is even worse.
so classic that the war in New Mexico campaign was decided by the high 🏜 desert’s austere natural elements and paucity of natural resources, as all dramas in New Mexico ultimately are.
What Sibley and the Confederates failed to appreciate is that the Mexican population (not Spanish!) of New Mexico loathed slavery! The New Mexico Volunteers (Mexicans!) proved loyal to Lincoln and Bento Juarez...nice video.
My grandfather who lived to 100. Whould tell of talking to civil war veterans who lived around town when he was a young man. They would sit around at the bar or store and rehash tales and argue about how this general or that was better or worse.
The only thing this entire campaign accomplished was giving Sergio Leone a fantastic setting for one of his westerns. (The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, obviously.)
Guess it depends on historians but growing up I was taught The Battle of Westport, sometimes referred to as the Gettysburg of the West. They also have plack in Kansas city says that
Although I am a Texan and it pained me to do so I pushed the light button that being said when you’re an enemy territory gentlemen you had better protect your supplies I should you not!
I don't mean to be a nay sayer, but at that time there's no way they could have gone up the river like that. The thick bosque and marsh traps of the untamed river would have forced them to travel on the Jornada del Muerto, which ends at San Antonio and Socorro.
@@ianthomas7863 not true sir guess you never heard of the Cherokee braves or Choctaw who fought with the Confederacy in Oklahoma last confederate general surrender was native American. Native American tribes also have Representatives in the confederate government
Cush (Greek - Ethiopia), means sun-burnt Persia means Lord of the Aryans now renamed IRAN Chiraq once known as Chicago Issac's Sons / Saxons / Anglo-Saxons / Europe / Australia / New Zealand / North America / First World
Pretty sure they lost around 500 men in the campaign, and around 1200 death or desertion as they chose to retreat across the desert im which case Canby was content to see the desert reduce them. Then disbanded upon returning to texas
The Confederates should have contacted the Native American tribes, especially Apache and made a deal with them if they would throw their support in and helped win the war.
Mesilla is pronounced meseeya - it's a spanish word. . . . A New Mexico resident who lived on Meseeya street in Albuquerque. Otherwise an outstanding piece of work. I've been to the battleground and you can still find the lead ball bullets on the ground.
I always looked at this as just another of those irrational, vainglorious military adventures that happened from time to time in the 19th century. I had also forgotten that Chivington was involved in this battle because it is greatly overshadowed by the crime he committed by leading the Sand Creek Massacre. Although he should have been, he was never prosecuted for it, but it at least put an end to his political aspirations.
@@WarhawkYT It's a stupid trope, High water mark is a better description, Bragg in his 1862 campaign got further North than Lee ever did, and the 62 campaigns are the high water mark of the Confederacy. Van Dorn active in Mississippi, Braggs Invasion of Kentucky and Lee's invasion of Maryland at the same time. The South will again never again attempt such a Offensive and after will be relegated a mostly defensive war.
at12:43 you state that a Colorado company was destroyed, by Texas lancers then seconds later you say the erroneous report that they were destroyed spurred Co. intro action... ????
Considering that the movie took place around many of the locations here (Santa Fe, Apache Canyon, etc.), one wonders if the show writers did their homework...
@@michaelmccabe3079 The director, Sergio Leone, from what I've read did extensive historical research prior to making the film. The bridge battle was fictional but they show Sibley retreating through the town after Glorieta Pass. Even mention him by name. Canby too I believe. Fictional story in a factual setting
Prisoners of this campaign..(CSA) were sent north to Kansas where they were encamped at FT.Riley KS. Several were paroled but there are approx. 8 burried in the FT.Riley Cemetery. Through a long process of elimination and paroll records. I was able to narrow down the names of these men. The Commanding General would not allow them to be disinterred and transported back to Texas. "They are traitors and will remain so here." These soldiers are currently burried under markers with no name. Just CSA. One grave has the paved road going right in front of the stone.
We lost this because a fool didn't guard the most important factor they had, supplies. How damn dumb was that? Plus, what makes the worse, we beat the Union in all the battles, unbelievable.
It might have opened a new port for the Confederacy to trade but I dont know how long it wouldve last until the Union came and blockaded those ports as well.
@@WarhawkYT that large navy was perhaps the most aggravating nuisance the csa couldn't physically deal with. Its been a staple of the American military ever since. Us ship production has been dominant for a long time. And then again, it would inevitably have to go past the Mississippi. At the very least the western armies would benefit from it for a time.
My ancestor Major John Shropshire of the 5th Texas Mounted Rifles was shot and killed during the battle. Believed to be shot in the head by the union soldier George Pierce.
