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"Adopt Don't Shop" Extremists Lack Nuance - Rescue vs Breeder Dogs 

DestroyerMariko
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27 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 27   
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
Okay so I didn't expect this video to get as much attention as it did. If you're coming to the comments to complain about the puberty blockers thing, don't waste your time, you're overreacting and I'm done platforming your narrow-minded knee-jerk panic. If you won't give me a chance to speak, I'm sure af not giving you a chance to voice your complaints back at me. I'm also now blocking you seeing as you're so keen to let me know you're never gonna watch my videos again when I know you never did in the first place, nor do I care - you clearly didn't bother to check to rest of my channel where you would see that I have no niche, zero strategy, and am obviously not here to be successful. You are not important to me. So off you go, bye! I don't like shutting down discussion, but I'm struggling with severe mental illness already so I'm gonna look after myself instead of putting up with you lot misrepresenting my position. It's honestly hilarious that you're okay with nuance when it comes to animals, but can't stop to think it might also be important for humans. Either get off your high horse or ride it the hell away from my digital house, your behaviour is not welcome here. You're especially not welcome if you tell me to be "demure" - I'm way too old to understand your TikTok ways, to me it just sounds like telling women to shut up and know their place, and as someone who grew up constantly being told to be ladylike by people who didn't like me being a tomboy, no I will not embrace being "demure" thanks. If you like it so much, maybe _you_ should try it and stay quiet like the definition of the word suggests. I'll even help you out - comments on this video will now require manual approval before going public. Congratulations, you are now screaming into the void. Stop wasting both our times and just don't bother. Tl;dr - get lost! Okay, now that I've scared off the ones who'll never change their closed intolerant minds anyway, here's a bit more detail for those of you who _are_ interested in giving me a chance to clear up the misunderstanding. 1. I don't script my videos. I'm an oldschool RU-vidr. A lot of you seem to be a fair bit younger than me, so maybe you're not used to this style of vlogging, but you need to realise that my wording is not always going to be precise like the polished essay types that now dominate the platform. I accept that I'm not always clear. But you need to accept that too, and take a breath before you go nuts at me for speaking like a human instead of an actor or a politician or a robot. 2. The puberty blockers thing was just a passing example, and after that when I talk about cutting off hormones too early, I'm back to talking about the _animal_ case since that's what's relevant to the video topic. There were two clues that this was the case, firstly that human children do eventually resume hormones one way or another whereas desexed animals do not, and secondly my use of the word "creature". You lot _know_ humans don't have hormones cut off forever, I shouldn't have to explicitly say it for you to know I'm no longer talking about them. 3. The part where I say "I don't know, I can't be bothered to go into the research" is in reference to the effect of removing hormones for the rest of an _animal's_ life and has nothing to do with puberty blockers. "I don't know" also isn't the same as "I know nothing", and was used mainly to avoid bogging the video down in a tangent that's not the key point of the video. The topic is "Adopt Don't Shop" not "should you desex your dog" and all that medical/veterinary debate, so I'm not going to suddenly do a deep dive into the research I've looked at and assert a firm opinion on how healthy it is in this video - rather, I'm going to get back to how Australia is obsessed with early desexing regardless of the potential health effects on our animals, and how that affects people's attitude towards breeders and the people who get their animals from them. And just to spell it out a little more since some of you seem to need it (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that it's unintentional, rather than a dishonest attempt to put words into my mouth hoping to make them easier to attack), "I can't be bothered to go into the research" means _in this video_ - not "I can't be bothered to do research on this topic ever". Duh. 4. Sure, there may be better examples I could have used, but lack of scripting aside, for better or worse, puberty blockers are what the public knows about. Again, because the topic is not a deep dive into desexing, I'm not gonna devote a huge chunk of the video to talking about cαstrαti or people with disorders that prevent full development. You may not like it, but there are some legitimate concerns emerging if puberty blockers aren't used carefully, and that's just what more people know about, it's not as niche as the other examples. Also note that I said "some of the kids" on blockers are having things go wrong, not "all of the kids" for a reason - nuance! 5. I get it, you're used to being attacked, and the younger you are, the harder I imagine it must be since this is the only internet you've really known. The lack of nuance online is a real problem, bad enough in the pet world, but even worse when it comes to gender with even more emotion and extremism and vitriol on both sides. I can see why your knee-jerk reaction exists. But not everyone with a slight disagreement is out to get you. In fact, the vast majority of people in real life are a lot more chill, and have the capacity to get along without needing perfect agreement or groupthink. I made one small comment you didn't like, and you dismissed the entire video. That's silly. I didn't even push a hard view on the human issue - again, I said "some" not "all". You don't have to agree with what I said, but you don't have to freak out either. Okay you didn't like that part, take a breath, move on, you'll find it never comes up again and you can safely ignore it while still getting the actual message of the video. I even have video chapters so you can see what's coming and skip to where you'd rather be. I hope that helps clear things up, although I'm pretty tired right now so I may have missed points. I'll add them in replies if anything else comes up. Thank you if you made it this far. Thank you for having an open mind. We need more of that, especially online. If you wanna prove you read it for the lols, comment "potato" or something potato-related. Don't give context. Just confuse the people who try to reply to this without reading it first hahahaha! And then go look up Van Halen and the brown M&Ms if you don't know that story already. Honestly though the puberty blockers thing is pretty interesting, and I can't help but wonder if they'll become increasingly important for kids more generally as the age of puberty has been trending earlier and earlier for decades and no one really knows why. Precocious puberty is an issue that seems to get ignored a lot amongst all the debate. Research being done now could have important applications down the track, we just need to make sure we don't sacrifice the health of today's kids to get there by being careless, as some clinicians seem to have done. Again, "some" not "all", but hopefully you've got the hang of that now. And now to something more positive... since you probably care about trans things, please check out Noctica, nothing to do with me, just the best trans music I know of and she recently released her Dysphoria EP: www.youtube.com/@iamnoctica I did a deep dive on my fav song from her explaining how it can be relatable even if you're not trans, but you're better off just going to the source. Savior ftw!
@pinupgoblin
@pinupgoblin 2 месяца назад
It depends on what they're being bred for. If it's aesthetics, like you said the ones with flat faces, ie pugs, french bulldogs, etc, then I am against it. But if it's like livestock dogs or guardian dogs, ie dogs breed for a purpose, then it makes sense to me to go to a breeder. My cousin-in-law will only buy Boxers that have a short lifespan and last less than five years. I'm not too fond of that because she is only buying them because she likes how they look.
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
This! I mean I've heard of flat-faced breeders now increasingly selecting for better health, but it might be too little too late, and it's hard to know if they're genuine or just making excuses to keep cashing in on the aesthetic. It's also going to take too many generations, meaning more flat-faced pups having to suffer. Outcrossing seems like a faster way to improve the health of those breeds but they generally don't like that idea which is a shame.
@HogTime
@HogTime 2 месяца назад
Great video! I think you did a good job getting your main point across even if you didnt touch on everything you wanted to. I fully agree with everything you've said. I used to foster dogs and volunteer at rescues in the southern United States. A lot of communities here are low income and cant afford to spray their pets so the shelters are overrun with dogs, most under 2 years old but over 6 months old. The types of dogs we saw the most were bully mixes, most were too backyard bred what they were mixes of but they had blocky heads like pit bulls/staffies/bulldogs. Most of these dogs were over 30 pounds and some got over 50 pounds, theyre not tall dogs, they're all muscle and some can pull a grown man down the street. Most of them were never socialized as puppies and many have deep set dog aggression (possibly genetic) that cant be fixed through training and has to be managed and accounted for throughout the dogs life. These dogs are really only suitable for a small group of people, they cant be treated the same way a labrador is, they have to be walked at hours when no other dogs are out and theyre usually very high enegy and need a LOT of walking to tire them out. About 70% of all the dogs in the shelters here fit that description. Another 20% are german shepards or huskies and the last 10% are miscellaneous breeds from Chihuahuas to mastiffs. The rescues here are desperate to re-home the bully type dogs, they market them as nanny dogs and say they're "dog reactive" instead of "this dog wants to bite and shake other dogs until they die". They're placing them in homes with kids and other small dogs and hoping for the best because most of these dogs are AMAZING with people despite their dog aggression. Most of the time it turns out okay but people and their children have been mauled or killed by these dogs, i dont think they should be marketed as something adoptable for the general public. These dogs need dedicated owners who are educated about breed disposition and rescue dog behavior. So right now most peoples options for dogs are 1. Puppy mill/baclyard breeder 2. Shelter/animal rescue 3. Registered responsible breeders If you go with 1. youre actively supporting a practice that profits off the suffering of dogs and burdens local animal shelters. And the puppies usually have serious lifelong health issues if they don't die after a few months. Most people like the idea of 2, a lot of people are willing to open their homes and their hearts to a rescue dog and they take pride in doing so. The issue comes when you cant find a rescue dog that will work with your situation, most families will be fine with a rescue that is temperment tested but if you need a dog that has a very specific temperament or behavior then you are basically hoping for a miracle if you want it to also be a rescue. Guide dogs that are trained from birth cannot be rescues, they need to have proven good genetics and you usually don't know the ancestry of rescue dogs even if you can find puppies. Rescue dogs can also have issues ingrained in them from their breeding like conflicting insticts, health problems, and neurotic behaviors. If you need a dog thats really going to be reliable, predictable, and consistent you dont want a rescue. That leaves a lot of people with 3, they can pick out a breeder that breeds dogs with all the specific things they want/need out of a dog, even if its just going to be a family pet and not a working/service dog. Breed clubs and breeders have spent decades and sometimes even centuries maintaining breed standards and its produced dogs that are expected to act and look a certain way. You'll pretty much never have any behavioral or medical surprises with a purebred dog, youll know what to expect and can be prepared for it. Sometimes you really just need a dog that you can know what to expect from them at every step and only purebred dogs can do that. I fully understand why some people are upset that someone would pay $1000-8000 and wait several months for a single dog when that same amount of money could cover adoption and vet fees for multiple shelter dogs who are at risk of being euthanized if they arent adopted quickly. But these people are totally ignoring that not every rescue dog is magical baby thats capable of being the perfect companion for any home/person. They'll keep dogs that are so aggressive they cant go to ANY home in the hopes that some miracle adopter will come along and save this dog, all while multiple other adoptable dogs that could have been rescued over the years werent because the kennel and funds were going to the completely unadoptable dog. They act like a purebred golden retriever and a shelter dog rescued from a fighting ring are equally adoptable and refuse to hear any arguments otherwise because their own personal rescue dogs have all been fine. Sorry for this mountain of text but i wanted to say thank you for the video and for giving a nuanced view on this topic!!! It really needs to be discussed more how phrases like "adopt don't shop" is catchy but lacks nuance and doesnt really apply to most situations and that not everyone who buys a purposely bred dog is a monster who hates shelters.
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
Wow thank you for the detailed American perspective! Sounds like things might actually be worse over there when it comes to rescuing. These days at least in my state of Australia, shelters do now screen people wanting to adopt animals, sometimes to excess, so I've heard of people wanting to adopt but being rejected for various reasons that didn't always make sense (which is another reason for overcrowding beyond irresponsible breeding). But at least families aren't being given pit bulls they're not prepared for, gosh! I've definitely heard of maulings overseas, saving a dog's life shouldn't come at the risk of human life like that. Sadly a lot of unadoptable dogs do get put down here, but only as a last resort when they can see the dog is suffering from being stuck in a shelter. People usually try to organise last ditch transfers to shelters that specialise in more difficult cases. But as compassionate as we are as a species, sometimes we just have to accept that the best thing for a creature may just be to let it go peacefully.
@HogTime
@HogTime 2 месяца назад
@@DestroyerMariko you're welcome!! It was really interesting to hear your perspective from a country that regulates dog breeds like that. It's a serious problem here, especially given the stigma against anything that looks like a pit bull. Some shelters here screen adopters but it's mostly just shelters in big cities with a lot of funding. Many smaller shelters here will adopt out a dog to anyone willing to pay the adoption fee (usually $50-100) and a lot of shelters will have adoption events where anyone can walk in, adopt a dog with the fee waived, and leave with a dog within like an hour. It seems crazy but the city shelters are just desperate to get dogs rehomed, many have policies that they can only hold a dog for 2 weeks before they're at risk of being put it down, even it's it's perfectly adoptable because they need space for more dogs. Our shelters are supported by private rescues, if we didn't have rescues coming in and finding fosters and adopters for these dogs then the dogs would be getting euthanized after 3 days instead of 2 weeks. The shelters are always underfunded and understaffed and the rescues are all non profit and rely purely on donations and volunteers. It's such a big problem here and that's why everyone is desperate to move dogs, even if the dog is a terrible fit for a home. Some rescues are really diligent and will do home checks and screenings before giving you a dog but most will just trust you to take the dog and tell you to give it back to them if you have problems with it, which works out fine for most breeds but there have been people and their kids who were killed by bully type rescue dogs within just a few days or hours of bringing them home. It's mostly elderly people and children who are mauled but I don't think anyone should be at risk of dying or losing their limbs because they followed "adopt don't shop". It's really sad because these people only wanted to help dogs and they were hurt for it, sometimes the dogs are fine for years but something will trigger an attack and someone is hurt. The dogs aren't bad, they just come from bad genetics and sometimes stuff gets weird and instincts show up when they shouldn't. It's all just really sad :( I think bringing more awareness to the topic helps though so I'm grateful for channels like yours!
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
Yeah also the dogs who've been through trauma and get triggered into attacking. Honestly the more I learn about my own mental health problems, the more I understand how early life experiences affect other animals too, not just humans. Many of those animals ending up in shelters have been through a lot, and if you don't know their history, you can't predict what might set them off. Some are super sweet mind you, like our rescue Lab who initially kept flinching every time we moved our arms too fast as if he was expecting to get hit, poor thing! But he was a Lab, and his sweet temperament was super obvious when we met him. ^_^ I'm honestly surprised how well this video's been received, and how RU-vid's picking it up more than my usual rambles. "Adopt Don't Shop" is so prevalent here that I was a bit hesitant to go there, but the conversation that day was a bit of a final straw sorta moment for me. There's often a point where I just need to express a thing to stop it swirling in my head, so yeah, the video happened! Hopefully it gives a few people a moment to pause and realise the world isn't so black and white. Too many well-meaning causes these days are treated like that, but nuance is so important!
@HogTime
@HogTime 2 месяца назад
@@DestroyerMariko big agree!! So many animals, especially shelter dogs, are resilient little guys who just need a safe space where they can be themselves, maybe for the first time in their life! If you don't know their history you don't know their triggers so you gotta learn and work with them, I think that process can you open you up to a beautiful bond with your dog. If you can be mindful of their triggers you can maximize your comfort and their enjoyment. It's so sad when they expect only pain and fear, all animals deserve a warm bed and a full belly and good ear scritches and so many are deprived of that. My favorite cat is a rescue, she was basically feral when I got her and it took a long time for her to fully come around. She's still a bit skittish but after 7 years she'll finally sleep in my lap and bother me for pets, I hate to think of what would have happened to her if she ended up with a family who didn't have the patience for a scratchy skittish cat. A little empathy goes a long way and so many of these animals just need time and a positive environment where they can settle into a routine. I'm glad the reception has been good so far!! It's an important message and I think that more conversations inspired by videos like yours can really change the dog community in the end. Dogs shouldn't die because there's a lack of homes AND breed preservation is incredibly important, those things can coexist. If people just redirected the time and energy they put into hating on purebred owners to reporting and investigating puppy mills we could solve the shelter crisis in like 10 years. I'm sorry you've been having to deal with conversations and comments like that about your dog from people who refuse to see the nuance; your boy is absolutely lovely and you did everything right in getting him, I hope he's a great companion for you for a really long time!!!
@katm8128
@katm8128 2 месяца назад
@@HogTime wonderful comment! This summarizes my thoughts regarding these dogs, but unfortunately many are unwilling to hear it
@alias3573
@alias3573 2 месяца назад
I got my cat through a breeder. I'm allergic to cats, and the particular breed I went with is less allergenic. I never had too much of an opinion on rescue vs. breeding (other than the obvious - backyard breeding, overbreeding or neglect or what have you) - but after getting my cat through a breeder, I realized just how much people regurgitate what they've heard through popular opinion and wanting to be on that bandwagon, without any concept of what they are talking about. I wouldn't have found my cat at a shelter, and for dogs, the only ones that are typically available are pit bulls (which I assume with how many there are - those are probably backyard bred all the time). The breeder I got my cat from, also had a contract - and that was to make sure she was spayed. Even if it wasn't valid or they wouldn't pursue it, I think just by having it - you are more likely to follow it. Also, when paying ~$1k+ for an animal - as terrible as it sounds to assign a dollar amount to a living creature - you are less likely to give the animal away than if you got the animal for free or for a minimal amount. And then on top of that, if you are paying a high amount for an animal - you are probably more likely in a better position to give greater care to the animal. I grew up poor - and we typically always got our cats for free, usually just from off the street. We also never kept them for their entire lives, couldn't afford to spay them if they weren't, and couldn't take them to a vet. My cat now is 13 years old, spayed, and unless I die first, she will be with me all the way to the end of her time.
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
Thanks for the cat perspective! I have almost no experience in that area. Here I think it's a bit unusual to find random cats off the street, increasingly owners are starting to keep them indoors or in cat enclosures to prevent them hunting endangered native wildlife, thought I do still see some roaming. Desex requirements are also stricter for cats, I think there's an annual fee in my state if you don't, which probably gives people more incentive. Back to dogs, thankfully we don't see too many pits here, Australia is very strict on "dangerous" breeds, so yeah it's mostly staffies instead, and as you point out, most of the ones ending up in shelters were probably backyard bred. I imagine that's why so many of them are weird staffy cross mixes. And yeah people who spend top dollar on an animal probably do have a better financial capacity to care for their animals. I guess shelters try since they don't just give animals away, which also makes it harder for shady randoms to pick them up and do god knows what with them, but they have to keep the prices relatively low to have any hope of rehoming them. Unfortunately it's not enough to prevent returns, especially dogs with behavioural issues. Can't be easy to run a good shelter and I do feel for their animals. But yeah rescue just isn't a good fit for all of us, even if we've done it so many times before. Too bad some people can't see that.
@harrietxo2310
@harrietxo2310 2 месяца назад
I also believe there’s actually no such thing as a low allergenic cat, there is food that’s specifically helpful for it. I would’ve guessed ah maybe it’s the fur length but I think the allergens are highest present in the cats saliva thus getting on the fur due to the amount they groom/clean themselves
@w0lflux
@w0lflux 2 месяца назад
@@harrietxo2310 there are breeds that have been proven to have lower allergen count of the Fel d 1 in their saliva. Siberian cats and Norwegian Forrest cats are a couple of said breeds.
@SammySandwich12
@SammySandwich12 2 месяца назад
Commenting before finishing the video (sorry!) Im not a dog owner, but plan to be in the future. I have some mental health issues and get overstimulated easily, so I need a "low energy" and more sedimentary breed. Very hard to find where I live (rural USA) in the shelters, most are larger and tend to be high energy dogs/needs more energy from the owner (from my very limited knowledge) such as Labs and a LOT of Huskies. Ive been looking into Cavaliers or Basset hounds, not sure yet. Im still going to do a LOT of research and save a lot to get a good breed for my low energy, first time dog owner self.
@Samiiii44
@Samiiii44 2 месяца назад
A completely understandable take especially for me who has a dog from a breeder myself. But please think again about getting a cavalier or a basset because both of these breeds are known to have severe health issues. Basset often have problems wither their joints and backs due to the short legs and long backs as well as ear problems because of the long ears. Cavaliers have brachycephalie wich means their skull is too small for their brain wich often comes withe neurological issues. So maybe when the time comes to get a dog you would want to considered an other small low energy dog like a Yorkshire Terrier or a bolognese dog.
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
Hey no worries, your question isn't answered by my video anyway. As the other commenter said, be careful to remember to research the health of the breed too. The last thing you need as someone with mental health struggles is a dog that's constantly worrying you with medical problems. I've been through that, can't do it again, that's why I chose a more naturally wolfish shaped dog with a more natural breeding background. That said, lappies are working dogs, and require a lot of grooming, so may not be for you. Another point to consider is, if you can't handle high energy, consider NOT getting a puppy. Some breeders will have adult dogs they're looking to find homes for. 2 years old is probably ideal since they'll be past the crazy puppy energy by then, fully grown, and have had time to settle down. Unless you have a specific reason like me, where you need to desensitise the dog early to unusual quirks of your situation, a well brought up adult dog is better for you. Puppies are nuts and can be a LOT of work, and it's honestly been a bit of a struggle for me sometimes, especially early on, and I'm lucky my boy is (so far) settling as he hits adolescence and hasn't (yet) become rebellious. Sometimes shelters will have more chill dogs, but unfortunately they're often elderly, so again, as someone with mental health struggles, you don't want to get a dog, form an attachment, and have to say goodbye so soon. So yeah, find a breeder who looks after their dogs well and trains their young adults properly. If they're ethical and responsible, they should also help find one with the right personality match for you. As an adult, the dog's personality will also be very clear, so there's no risk of a chill puppy turning out to be nuttier than you expect as it grows up. You should also meet the dog in person if possible, before making the commitment. At the very least obtain video of it interacting with people. Also, I wouldn't completely dismiss Labs. An adult Lab can be quite chill and they're very easy dogs for first time owners. If I hadn't found a suitable medium sized dog, my backup plans was going to be to apply to my local guide dog organisation to adopt one who failed their guide dog suitability test. You KNOW those are good dogs who've had a lot of training, at least in Australia. See if your guide dog organisation allows expressions of interest. They often do prefer to give them to people with other conditions such as mental health issues, rather than just randomly adopt them to the public. An almost-guide-dog level Lab could be really good for you, and will be less likely to pull like our rescue. Hope this helps!
@Mikaelaxo1
@Mikaelaxo1 2 месяца назад
We must make Constitutions Of Life, rights for key species, insects, plankton, domesticated and wild animals.
@savejosef
@savejosef 2 месяца назад
Do you still take mirtazapine?
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
God no, from memory I took half a tablet once and it messed me up for two whole days. Never touched it again, or any other meds. Have just had to accept that I'm too sensitive to side effects for them to be worth it for me. And no medications are going to change the situation I'm stuck in either.
@Bigoblue1
@Bigoblue1 2 месяца назад
Are you indian?
@DestroyerMariko
@DestroyerMariko 2 месяца назад
Nah, I'm half-Japanese, half-white Australian
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