Advanced Use of the ALTERED SCALE | You'll Hear It 

"we're not theory nerds" Proceeds to nerd out on theory. I proceed to subscribe.

Pianists have a way to simplify the hard stuff. Good explanations and examples.

The promise of the internet and RU-vid is realized in every episode with you guys. It’s really fantastic. Thank you.

These discussions are great! Please don't change a thing. Learning so much.

As a guitar player, it’s great to hear this explained from a piano perspective. Superlative content. Thanks!

You guys are amazing as well as this video. I did 3 years at Humber College Jazz Piano and your format is more informative and easier to understand. Two guys bouncing ideas off each other rather than 1 teacher with handouts and a blackboard this is much better and more interactive. Well explained and easy to follow. Perhaps a format colleges should consider! Thank you for your expertise and talent. Eugene

you two guys are so great and you deserve all the praise ! I'm really learning so much and i thank you both ! just great !

"we're not theory nerds" *Proceed to theory TF out*

Quoting Daahoud is a great way to beginning Friday evening. FWIW, I also learned altered scales as dimished whole tone over at Manhattan School of Music.😉 BTW, the standard "Invitation" is a great for getting the altered scale in your ear, altered dominants are everywhere. Great show guys, thanks.

Lovely! I would really appreciate having visual cues on what you are saying. For example when you mention triad pairs, it's over too quickly and I can't quite catch which pairs you play on that chord. If you flashed an image of the chord and the triads though... I think you could use the video part or RU-vid more ;)

Thank you very much, this is very clear and helpful !

Love these guys!!!

I have the exact same thought process. Diminished + whole tone scale bundled into one. That's how I think of it to this day.

So in the beginning they talk around an important aspect that we Spanish guitar players are deep into. They talk about the tension there that wants go somewhere then do examples that all resolve to F. They discuss F major versus F minor resolutions for example. Here is the thing, which I don’t understand why it is simply not more obvious. If you think of C mixolydian and create or exploit the tensions there, it is again a dominant type sound in F major. If you use C mixolydian but incorporate the b9 and b6 you end up with Dominant sound in F minor. So regardless if you resolve to F major or F minor, this would be messing around with the dominant function of F minor tonality. So the altered thing there, is the same as this last one with added b5….basically the F phrygian resolution if such a “Key” existed. So the C alt is like Dominant function to F Phrygian. In spain we think of the true Dominant as the flat 2 (Gb lydian dominant) and this must resolve to F major with flat 9 often voiced to keep the modal color. In fact the alt scale has all the F phrygian notes inside minus the root itself. These gentleman play excellent examples but never end that way, and it is not just them, most musicians don’t think this way. It is a simple concept that is avoided, I guess, because a “phrygian tonality” is not thought of as a legit “thing”. But in all honesty, this is exactly where this altered thing is coming FROM and why it works so nicely. IMO.

Great ideas thank you!

I'll be using this on my guitar... and my sax... and my clarinet.... and.....

One of my fave scales!

Fantastic gentleman! Love music theory, you inspire me to learn more. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🎼🎶🎵🎹🎶🎵🎼

Big shout out to the oath keepers hahahaha. I died. That’s hilarious I wish I got to hang out with people like you.

First video I’ve watched of you guys. I subbed and will be looking out for more content.

I literally subscribed after 30 seconds

Thank you for the great lesson.Can you guys make some examples of Altered Scale on top of 9/13?

I think of it like Peter. Started using half while diminished about 50 years ago when I learned #9 chords. Then it became the deminished while tone for me. Much easier for my mind than melodic minor

Great Video! Great teaching and example!

Ballers! The real ending of Crossroads.

I think of the scale like “7th major scale ” eg if I was to play this scale in D. Go down a half step to the 7th degree of the the scale (so C#/Db major scale) but instead of using the 7th as the first note you use the original key in this example D

You guys are great!

I think of it as locrian b9( 1 b2 #2 3 #11 b13 b7 1

More than a few decades ago, I was taught this as the diminished whole tone scale, just like Peter suggested. But here’s the weird way I was taught to think of it… Play a B, major scale, but substitute a C for a B.

Great!

11:09-11:12 AM: “If you want to simplify you know what you can do-” PM: _plays some slick altered shit_ AM: “That’s not simplifying it”

Question: Did Guaraldi use #11 in his C13(b9) voicing in O Tannenbaum? I’m pretty sure it’s just Bb-Db-E-A arpeggiated without the addition of the F# (#11). If I’m wrong let me know! Of course the F# is within the diminished scale that the C13(b9) is derived from, but I just don’t think it is put into the chord like that. The idea of leaving notes out to create less density and more transparency in the sound is what I dig about people like Vince Guaraldi or Kenny Barron. But I am also willing to be wrong here and learn something new about the holes in my transcription skills haha :)

What's the software to show the note played?

What software or plugin is it showing the hit keys as a midi keyboard visualisation? I'm a beginner and I start exploring the piano. Sometimes I find interesing chords 'accidentally' and I want to see them and keep them for self-teaching analysis. Thanks for answering, in case...

quality content i subscribe!

So many replies here; maybe somebody said it already but... How about this: When playing in C, you can use the b5 in the bass instead. For instance, a C7b10, with a Gb in the bass, results in a Gb13 vibe. Use this thought for the altered scale: "solo over the b5, but with a #4 in the scale of that b5 solo". Sounds complicated, but it's simple. In C, this means: b5 = Gb So, think of playing a solo over Gb7; well actually Gb7-#4: (that #4 is a C!): And you'll get: Gb, Ab, Bb, C(=#4), Db, Eb, E In C, I'm thinking "I'm playing a solo over Gb, but with a C instead of a B." To get this super fast in each key, this works: -the minor-pentatonic of the minor third, plus the base note & the major third. Sounds complicated too, but, it's simple: In C this means: -the E-flat pentatonic (Eb Gb Ab Bb Db) + C & E In D -F minor-pentatonic of F (F Ab, Bb, C, Eb ) + D & F# In Ab: -B minor-pentatonic, with an Ab & a C. Etc etc. So, solo over that b5, but don't forget to use the base note in it!

Peters the guy in the band always playing when the rest of the band is discussing a part that needs to be worked out

I think of it as a Major Scale...with a raised Tonic

I thought they almost fight each other when they start talking

any song recommendations that use this scale

13:48 almost the Mario Kart lick?

Adam deffo won that round

9:15

This reminds me of Bud Powell :DD

Thanx, Gentlemen.

"Whats the name of the episode"? lol Great episode btw

just play a B major scale starting on C

Please have a banana lick alert at 9:15 :0)

Heeeeyyy pops! I think I saw some solution that would enable us to mount a go-pro underneath that mics on each side ...wouldn't we wanna let people see what magic drippin from those MANLEY hands of yours, crowning this already amazing experience of internet showering of wisdom huh? all we need is to complete that fork shapen holder into a full circle while making it sure that the dude that will cast it for us will give us a tiny square space on the downside that he can glue the bottom of that tiny square camera...first thing in the mornin: who would do such a casting other than Jocasta or Laetitia casta....ok one more or the telecasta...forgive me this is amazing n I've gone naturally crazy....this is awesome already but please consider some way to shoot the keys in flesh...it will be amazing to see the behaviour of a skilled brain in finger positioning.

It would have been very helpful to see some notation.

Wow... I shouldn’t be here

how about some bennard herrman

Is it just me or they had a weird vibrato on the piano all the time? Probably the mod-wheel of the controller was on?

"Did I win?" You BOTH did.

It's the "Flat Everything" scale to me. You take the 1. Then you flat everything else.

I’ve honestly never heard people talk about piano like this. I’m relatively new at piano and felt like I hit a wall in playing. But it’s so encouraging to see that there’s so much more to get into and this will probably eternally be true. Really great show, thank you!

I've always thought of it as a root with every normal scale interval flatted. 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7

What a way to start the show, instead of having your 5 second intro chat, have the subject be the 2 of you's (haha),ping ponging, I like it

Is it weird that this was all completely over my head and I enjoyed the heck out of it anyway?

ad in the middle: "this season, escape winter in a cadillac!" bitch, i'm watching jazz theory videos at 12:30 pm on a tuesday, i don't think that's gonna happen

ok so the 2 approaches are: -dim until the 3°/whole tone until the 8° -melodic minor of Db The main difference is really obvious, but still very important and they didnt mentioned it. One scale is constructed starting from the TONIC (but its made of 2 scales) and the other is just melodic minor, but HALF STEP UP the tonic.

On one of Tony Winston’s altered scale tutorials, he described missing out the tri tone as a way of helping the sound of a run down the keyboard. Shout out to Tony, another great jazz piano channel. And by the way Adam, you won...!

hi guys, concerning your discussion at 3:00 - in fact that's why the altered scale is sometimes called 'the diminished whole-tone scale'. Best, Andy

Love this, guys. stumbled across this and it's making my day(s). As a guitarist, using this during my work lunch breaks (without guitar) is giving my mind a workout visualising the patterns on the guitar. Can't wait to put your ideas into practice in the evenings and further into my teaching.

Shout out to Peter! I used to take lessons from that guy in undergrad.

Oh... thanks for pointing out the use of a triad pair. This is something I'm working on and using the triad pair to get an altered sound fits extremely well. Triad pairs & hexatonics would be a great topic for you guys to cover. There's so many melodic and harmonic applications you could probably do a few videos as a small series. Just a thought. Thanks!

I have to say, as a relatively new student of jazz piano, this channel and Peter Martin and Adam Maness' videos in particular have been a huge source of inspiration to my understanding and developing knowledge of jazz harmony as well as a massive influence on my piano playing in the last year. I've been scouring RU-vid for years learning from many great players, but there's something special here about how these two guys talk about and demonstrate some of these concepts. I think my own improvement has been a direct result of following along meticulously to all of these podcasts and lessons. I'll be diving into the online course soon. I can't thank you enough!

Great topic! I really enjoyed this. I've heard and thought of the altered scale a few ways... the 7th mode of the jazz/ascending melodic minor aka super locrian. Then there's the diminished whole tone scale, and also known as the altered dominant scale. Hearing you guys bouncing ideas back and forth helped to solidify these aspects of an often misunderstood topic. So THANKS guys! Keep up these great videos. Best regards from Montreal.

Absolutely glad I ran across these guys! Peter, man...Your the man as I saw some of your other posts!! Got to get in the course!!!

I spent a lot of time listening to podcast. Really amazing and actually a little bit more enriching to be able to watch you guys do it live!

I'm just absolutely taken back .. this is free this feels wrong you guys are so good to us. Such good content, entertaining, great guys and great players, adding to us all thank you, sincerely

I understand the melodic minor foundation of the altered scale but ive locked in the scale by thinking of it as a half step down scale starting on C. IE it’s a B scale starting on C.

You two are real jazz pianist gems. Love the advanced youtube episodes

So any time someone starts talking about the altered scale (that's a better name than some) I talk about how it's just a mode of a much more comprehensive system that includes it's tritone substitution x7+11, or Coletrane's favourite xsus b9, or xmaj7+5, or xø non locrian 9 ie natural 9. But the fact that you didn't state that it is the Vince Gauraldi scale a tritone away ie starting from Gb makes me think that perhaps you don't understand it holistically. Ie C7alt=Gb7+11 why didn't you mention that. It's THE central insight of this topic.

Watching this. I just go down whole scale till the major third then HW. In C .. C Bb Ab Gb Fb Db C. Amazingly works the other way. C Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb C. It doesn't work with sharps as we double notes ..eg. C C#..In fact it is a mess on any # or b 🔑s. Pretty sure C is the best for the pattern. The best.

This I think is the first video I may have watched all the way. I was looking and searching for awesome teachers on RU-vid. I'm self taught 3.5 years. I've played the bass guitar for 35 years. I'm learning lots from guys like you both. I will give you both 7stars ten maybe. Please please keep doing what you doing it really does mean a lot. Your energy and emotions show about playing and teaching others the skills and techniques it takes to walk this journey that's filled with many shall we say scenic views..!!

love the altered scale battle in the intro

hey - at 12:45 you are getting to my favorite subject: the 'altered 6-note scale'! (that's how i love to call it in my nerdiness). in fact, i compose the scale by introducing three 2- note cells (i call them modules): [b7-1] / [b9-#9] / [3-b13]. each module has its spezific resolutions into the tonic chord. by adding the 3 modules i get the altered 6-note scale. years ago i designed an entire software program on that topic. best, andy

Watching again..just notice how fast and continuous the desending scale is..thought I'd try it. My speed was about 80 percent but fairly accurate. of course C F G alt scales are almost identical .as far as the pattern goes.

5:48 keys molestor! 😂

Some pretty flavorful resolutions at 12:16 and 14:10

Why's he ignoring Peter's jokes. Come on man. haha.

"we're not theory nerds" at a playback speed of .5 sounds like two drunks duking it out on the keyboard lol

One of the most important things for me is hearing where I want to go . I’m not a pianist but hearing how you guys traded off altered runs helps me absorb it, hear it in my mind and is super helpful as a guitar player. A lot of videos focus on how to play it and resolve it. These kind of discussions help you to feel it as flavour in it’s own right. Great stuff. Thanks!

This is the only altered video that I understand musically and theoretically.

Bobby Stern's Melodic minor Handbook is a great place to start getting this under your fingers..plus how to add chromaticism I to these ideas.

Great lesson. I don't have the full understanding..The alt scale and related chords are like a precious mineral mine..I am working on this on guitar and piano. I definitely don't have this down yet.

Recommended, clicked, subbed

by the way, "Altered States" is one heck of a movie from the 80s! Tell Adam and Peter that playing altered scales in a sensory deprivation tank is hazardous to their health--even if the keyboards aren't turned on.

If I could ever join in this conversation; that would be a day! Well into my journey; but light years to go.

Love the episode. Also love the “Altered States” thumbnail. Do people still know that movie?

You didn’t explain where it comes from. You just explained a mode of the scale on the piano. You get this scale by modulating sharp and flat at the same time. Bb and F# in the key of C would be G melodic minor. Which is a mode shape of this altered key.

Y'all deserve all possible stars! You are both really easy to understand. I am coming from a background of first learning rock and roll and some jazz on guitar, but then on piano and piano accordion studying many different "world music" traditions. So when you explain peculiar modes, it is speaking to me loud and clear. I truly appreciate y'all joking around and improvising back and forth as it keeps me relaxed and it's non threatening. I got one piano lesson as a kid with a dude who scared the crap out of me and so that ruined sitting next to someone at the piano pointing at the page etc...this is really a blessing to have You two positive people without a shred of arrogance or self importance focussing us all onto the deep and mystical thing that is Music, while being in the comfort of our own homes. Wishing both of you all the best, Tim PS. Have y'all thought about including stylistic traditions like Tango piano in you podcasts?

This is great! Thank you!

As a classically trained composer and jazz head you bring great theoretical insight in a practical, and accessible manner. Kudos to you both. By the way I'm a guitarist picking great new approaches to the instrument.

7:14 sheeeesh 🔥

Man you guys are crazy good. You are theory nerds tho lol. I love this video and I’m subscribed 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽

Yes I understand what’s happening... I don’t but this is so interesting to watch

Love this

My jazz teacher, a juliard graduate and working musician at the time, called this the "combination" scale because it combines diminished and whole tone.