Perhaps he could pop off to Greenland and dig out the other P38s, then make a video explaining why the USAAF didn't use the 20mm Hispano in more aircraft.
I really like this series - seeing pretty common rifles but being given the Ian Treatment(tm) of the history and what everything means is actually pretty cool.
Me too. I'd love a series of "Adventures in Gun Stores" where Ian visits a local store/cabelas and spares a brief moment for oddities he finds there. Kinda like LGR Thrifts.
Please finish this little "Adventures in Surplus" series by showing us how these several incidental acquisitions perform as shooters. If they function well with no problems, if they represent typical accuracy for their type, how prohibitive is the ammo, etc.
What would be the process one would undertake to go from buying surplus to verifying it is safe to shoot and then actually shooting it at the range? That sounds like both a really good ForgottenWeapons video as well as a C&Arsenal video
If the date of the auction that nailed him the rifles is any clue, he probably have _already_ shot with the four guns (not just the 98k he originally chased) as we speak. Heck (🐍), I'm not going to be surprised if he's already _editing it_ rn.
cool insight into the beginnings of the end of German military production, seeing the combo of cheap and advanced parts in the one product. You are going to have to do more auctions Ian, theres only 1 gun left in the current lot, we will need more! Adventures in Surplus must continue!
When I was a teenager I would stroll the aisle of the army surplus store near me and there would be dozens of various makes of surplus rifles on the floor racks.. The price varied from $30.00 or so for a fair condition rifle all the way up to a hundred or so for a decent shooter with a pristine bore. Those were the days!
The marks on the barrel are chatter marks from driving the cutting tool too fast into the material. This causes vibrations on the lathe which cause these marks. If you limit the driving speed of the cutting tool you don't need to remove them afterwards, but they simply didn't care back then because this is only a minor flaw. They had to put out as many barrels as possible in a short time.
Imagine being a worker there going from "There might be a war." to, "We have the superior army." and then finally, "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE THE SOVIETS AND AMERICANS ARE COMING!"
So I returned to work this week, in my country we've managed to have no COVID cases in a few weeks so things are starting to open up. As I went through my day I found myself staring out the window, remembering the weeks of freedom I had to go for walks and exercise whenever i liked. And my boss turns to me and says "Riker, you look sad. are you sad for all the people who have died?" and I say no boss, I am sad because I thought of what Ian would look like without a beard.
Hope you feel better man. everything eventually passes, and if you're struggling with quarantine, I've been finding that sitting outside has been helping me.
Very informative, I recently purchased a K98 that has a DWM manufacturing date of 1916 but was modified to a K98K with the shorter barrel and WW2 stamping. I have been looking for any information on this guns history and will look to purchase the books you mentioned. Thanks again for the great videos.
that would be a transition period rifle from ww1 to ww2 , alot of ww1 rifles that were left were modified to be k98 by the nazis during hitler's rise to power
It appears the somewhat less desirable rifles in the auction lot are much more valuable than first thought. I think all collectors have purchased something somewhat blindly and then after researching their find, discover they made a good buy and sometimes not so good. "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut" but this is not to say Ian is a blind squirrel which is quite the contrary. If Ian ever has a gun show table, I would like to be there first. :-)
In some ways they may actually be more interesting that the gun that Ian was seeking. Maybe it's the surprise of finding out what they are or that they are not as historically significant so they are less known. I kind of like the Argentine rifle just for something different. I guess we'll find out what the last one is tomorrow.
You'd be right. The first real surplus gun i bought was a No.4 Mk1 Enfield. It looked in good shape and i thought it was cool, but i didnt know anything about it. Got it, took it home, did about 10 minutes of research to find out i have a matching 1942 Long Branch* that still shoots 1 MOA and has armory paint on the stock. $500 out the door with taxes.
David Thomas yeah but during a war you’d want the simplest and fastest way to produce war material but the Germans chose a quality over quantity for most of their equipment until it became just make anything to stop the Russians.
@@curiousentertainment3008 You want cheap quantity but you still need it to actually work. So you contract a company that can do quality to make the most important parts and then anyone with a workshop to make the rest of the gun.
@@alltat Do you know if Feima finished the receiver or just forged it or something in the middle? I think most AR-15 receivers are not actually forged by the manufacturer of the gun. I believe most manufacturers receive raw forgings and finish them.
@@Kleptophobia Apple doesn't actually 'make' anything, everything they sell is manufactured by contractors, Foxconn being one of the biggest. Apple is really just a design house...
Ian, I think you got a hell of a deal on that lot of rifles. This one alone seems to be an all-matching vet bring back, so that adds a premium. I love it!
An interesting note - The reason why the rifles use "script" letters has to do with German nationalism. The script in question is known as Fraktur and is known occasionally as the "German alphabet" despite being a Latin typeface. According to Wikipedia, it was originally represented as the true German script by the Nazi government, and while in practice it was replaced with more readable fonts it remained in use in decorative contexts such as letterheads and, presumably, rifle manufacture markings through the war. It's used now to represent some stuff in category theory which is where I'm familiar with it. Not often mathematical expertise overlaps with gun history, but hey.
@@mojoblues66 and in 2000, SIG Sauer sold the hunting weapons compartment to the Lüdke Group, so SIG Sauer produce small arms for military, police and sporting use, while Sauer & Sohn is another company that produce only hunting rifles and shotguns
Speaking of Sauer: When do we get to see all the cool hunting rifles Sauer put out over the years: Sauer 80, Sauer 200, Sauer 202 Take Down and, of course, the Sauer Weatherby Mark V?
@@Devin_Stromgren The German arm of Sig. It just wasnt making money in Germany because of gun laws. www.dw.com/en/sig-sauer-to-shutter-german-weapons-factory/a-53689378
Sig Sauer GmbH is closing shop in Germany. This is due to the new harsh anti gun laws in Europe, they can no longer stay economically afloat. Guess they move their enterprise to the US.
In the grand RU-vid Venn diagram, I'm sure there isn't much overlap in viewersbetween Forgotten Weapons and the Technical Difficulties on Matt and Tom's channel, BUT 'Adventures in Surplus' would scan really well onto their 'Mystery Biscuits' jingle.
There will be lots of generic guns not fancy enough for individual sale. You'll get all kinds of guns that might even be common enough to use as a shooter.
Really dig this series, it is pretty crazy to think about the numbers and history, quarter million of these in one factory in one year, all of them with a story.
(Militär-)Restbestands-Abenteuer! :^) (I think "Überschuss" would be closer to "surplus"; "überflüssig" is more like "superfluous". Looking it up on Linguee, "military surplus" doesn't seem to have one universally established translation? I presume the Bundeswehr has an official term, but I wouldn't know it.)
@@TheRitchway Nah, just German. ;) Fluent in English, but my French has become _extremely_ rusty since high school. I've tried to learn a couple others, but never to the point where I could even hold small talk.
Actually Sig Sauer closed their production in germany and will go to the United States. Today it belongs to the L&O Holding (brands like Blaser, Sauer, Mauser, J.P. Sauer und Sohn, John Rigby & Co. and a whole lot of other companys e.g. textile industry and even a farm in Namibia) So you probably can say, that your rifle and magazin plate today are under the same roof of one holding ;-) p.s. I like your channel, gives me a lot of information. Thank you for your hard work.
I’ll forever regret the day I was in a military surplus/pawn shop and they had 50 gallon drums full of K98’s, M1 Gerands, Springfields, M1A1 carbines and a lots of other older weapons all covered in grease and oil and selling for about $50 a gun. I wasn’t into collecting old weapons at the time so I figured the huge surplus meant the guns weren’t rare so I didn’t pay much attention to them and I figured I’d get a second chance. Boy was a wrong lol. A came back a week later and thinking I’d buy one and try restoring it since they were so cheap and other than the oil they seemed to be in good condition so why not grab one. Of course they were all gone. Turns out the grandfather of the stores owner had collected a ton of them over the years and would restore them and sell them on the side. The grandfather had died and the grandson was just trying to get rid of them as soon as possible because he didn’t want to spend the time cleaning them up so he was selling them for anything people would offer. This was the very early 2000’s, before I really used the internet so I didn’t think to try and find out how much they were worth, it was before people got used to quickly googling things so even if I wanted to find out how collectible they were at the time the information may not have even been on the internet yet or at least not been easy to find. I still don’t know why some of the guns had so much grease on them and if that was the way the way the governments stored the weapons after WWII or if the grandfather had stored them like that to keep from rusting.
Yep, they would pack them in cosmoline so they wouldn't rust. A shame, I bet some of those weapons were mint condition underneath and were an absolute steal!
Always like the videos that go more into the life of the weapon and how you can show where its placed within a moment in history. As highlighted by the stamped and welded parts on this gun or the chromed parts from the previous video.
Makes me wish I snagged a specific Mosin when they were available in crates. One of the guys in the shop had a hobby of keeping track of stamp/marking on Mosins. From what we could piece together, It was a 39? (just pre ww2 may have the date wrong) Izmash production. It had a German capture mark, (crossed out) a Finnish capture mark (marked out) and another we were guessing Russian mark? on it. We couldn't recognize it. Sadly I couldn't afford to pick it up. :( I hope someone who has a good appreciation of history got it and tracked down it's whole story.
Great video, please keep finding interesting weapons like this. A simple trick to reduce your background shadow (assuming you have space) is to come forward, further away from the white wall background.
Question, why does all matching serial numbers matter? I mean these guns have interchangeable parts for a reason, what’s wrong if the bolt is pulled from another gun or the barrel is replaced?
Luis Maiocchi As for functionality, it really means very little. It’s more for collectors who prefer that every part is “correct” for that gun. If it doesn’t mean anything for you, non-matching guns mean you can save a lot of money and you have a gun you can shoot and not worry so much about damaging it and having to replace parts with different numbers.
Because a rifle being matching means that those are all of the original parts that came with that exact rifle off of the assembly line out of factory. It can be difficult to find rifles that haven't had parts swapped out in their 70+ year life. That's why all-matching is more valuable, it's just how it was at the time of production.
I think asking for more than once a year would be too much for the wallet. Though when lock down ends, Ian visiting (willing) buyers and giving them the run down on what they have bought could be a good occasional show.
*ADVENTURES* *IN* *SURPLUS* ™ hosted by gun Jesus Starring gun Jesus Filmed and edited by gun Jesus Written by gun Jesus Research by gun Jesus Funded by patreon and ad revenue *ADVENTURES* *IN* *SURPLUS* ™
Interesting that the floor plate matches the finish on the rest of the gun pretty much exactly. Could possibly have been a wartime repair with a different last ditch rifle.
The Karem and Steves books are amazinf sources of info, I have IIa and IIb, even though they are pricey, if you're looking into buying or collecting a 98K there's so much you need to know. It's helped me do a lot of research on my numbers matching DOT 44 98K which turned out to be a partial Kriegsmodell gun (was never drilled for a cleaning rod in the stock but has the barrel bands & spring.
I always gotta remind myself how good we have it with RU-vidrs like Ian. Back when I was growing up the only program on firearms period was tales from the gun on history
So out of curiosity. How do you think you did financially (including what they sponsored you), vs buying the rifles you got hunting them down individually?
It sounds like it might be Spanish. They used a fasces as a mark on some of their guns. And if it's in 7.62 NATO it might be an FR8. Basically a modernised m43 mauser converted to fire 7.62. Hope this helps.
Ty I was looking at Italian rifles because the ax reminded me of a fascist logo As soon as I started looking at Spanish rifles I found the logo on a m1916
Excellent video as always Ian. Thinking of getting into the WWII era surplus rifles collecting sometime in the future but not particularly interested in German rifles. Could any of the fine members of the Forgotten Weapons community possibly make any recommendations if I were more interested in the Scandinavian countries. The two rounds I find most appealing are the 6.5x55 and the 7.62x54R. Thanks in advance.
Just picked up a JP sauer & sohn. Mine is also a CE 44, all matching!! Mine used to be owned by a gunsmith and he put it in a new stock with a new sling. But didn’t put a bolt disassembly disc into the stock, but I am looking at having one added. Mine is also a war bring back as there is no import marks. And it’s still blued. Whether that’s because the previous owner reblued it or if its blueing stayed intact throughout the years idk. I’ve shot it quite a bit and it functions fantastically
Floorplate not with standing, that is a good matching number rifle. Probably a veteran bring back as many GI's did. The ordinary British "Tommy" wasn't allowed to on pain of prosecution. Here in the UK I have a 1938 K98k code S27 on my Firearm certificate. Its a Russian capture rifle so sadly not matching numbers, I understand that when Russia refurbished their captured material then stripped the action/barrel, bolt & woodwork apart so there is o chance of an original matching example.
All you need to properly collect K98k rifles are those books and a winning lottery ticket. That crappy, banged up rifle Ian has there would bring $800-1K on the market today. It's a bog standard, unremarkable, pretty ugly example, probably has a crappy bore, and isn't some kind of one-off, limited production piece, and that's what you'd pay for it.
This couldn't be timed or said worse, Sig Sauer had to file for bankruptcy yesterday I think :( I just post check my facts and it seems like this only for the company location in Eckernförde. I was fooled my some click bate German newspaper headline :|
It has been a problem for German industry after WW2 that producers widely subcontracted parts to subcontractors - which eventually led to a slave labor content. That is very characteristic of German industry as a whole - not just arms manufacture - but when own production gets to expensive and wages to high - well, then the company is in the market for subcontractors bidding in. This goes on to this day - Volkswagen don't produce their own brake disks - and they are the same for decades - which means the subcontractor can get volume in their production. This is one of the problems today for getting German arms production cranking - because it is not just the tanks, but the supply chain that makes all the odd ends and bits of tanks. When gearing up production not only the manufacturer has to invest in new production tooling; but the subcontractors as well need new tools and computerised mashines. That is not done over night. Normally some of the finance comes from the costoumer. If you as coustoumer offer cash payment, you might get a discount. Note it is not VAT deductable, as it is considered a financial expenditure. Again: This rolls back in the whole supply chain. There is money to be made, if the producer can pay cash and reduce the bank financing.
Ok, Ive been watching Ian for 2 months now. He is absolutely fantastic. I dont even have that much interest in firearms, but listening to someone so informative and well-versed in his field is addicting. He speaks clear, provides evidence, resource, and expert evaluation. I praise Gun Jesus. I want to kiss him on the forehead and tell him he's a good boy.
Around 15 years ago l picked up a 98k produced by Czechs in '45 from a local dealer for under $300 and l don't think it was ever issued, it was so clean and loaded with Cosmoline. A regular at the sportsman's club where my old man was Range Master was impressed by what a 'straight shooter' it was. He let me play with an SMLE he had up there that day, l loved the action on that thing. When l got tired of the Mauser beating the shit out of my shoulder, my old man dumped it at a show in about five minutes for my $300.
Ian...man I need help to identify a WW2 gun( I believe) I have that belonged to my Grandfather. It favors a Kar98 but not exactly. Can you help me or tell me who can.
Some more "trivia" you very much missed. By 1944 a lot of slave labor was used for this type of production throughout Nazi Germany. Many men from, for example, Belgium and the Netherlands (my father in law one of them) were rounded up and used as slave labor for this type of production. One of the reasons the finish was simplified, the labor was not trained up beyond what they strictly needed. There is a very high probability that they were used for this specific piece.
Isn't _J. P. Sauer und Sohn_ an independent entity from _SIG Sauer,_ which, by the way, is closing its German plant and laying off something like a hundred workers?
I have a 1915 danzig gew98 that is converted to full 98k spec and re stamped s/42 (plus a bunch of nazi markings.) While retaining all the imperial marks. I have been trying to find info on these for years on the internet, but the info small or non existent. This is my first rifle that I bought at an estate auction of a old ww2 vet that passed and the kids were getting rid of everything. Rifle was greased up, wrapped, and hidden in the garage (for all they knew it could be a bring back.) Could you point me in the right direction for a book, or share some of your knowledge.
I'm very much hoping these get shot. Then valued and sold. I'm very curious as to how much that initial $2500 translates when the whole lot has been properly valued.
I'm trying to find more details on "Feinmechanische Werke" and I'm finding almost no mention of that phrase in particular. The closest I'm finding is Erfurt Machaninfabrik, ERMA, who it seems did manufacture k98k's or parts. Can you share some info on the phrase you used?
This is almost literally the same thing I have, although an Austrian from mid-late 1944 and mine has waffenamt stamp 77 in multiple places but nothing over the chamber. I saw the kriegsmodel parts but the receiver pieces are all milled instead of stamped so I was a bit confused as to why.
Lol.. crudely stamped serial numbers.. The guys home had likely been bombed the night before and his coworker and friend who owed him from yesterdays card game.. hadnt turned up for his shift..
I'm actually curious why other nations never tried to do something similar to Enfield and create magazines that can hold more than 5 rounds. Germany had the G41/43's with 10 rounds available so I'm actually curious if there were any attempts to make the rifles hold more than 5 by using magazines. The US tried with the Garand but not the springfield mainly due to it being obsolete after the adoption of the Garand.
That in the darkest days of World War One and World War Two that Mausers could and were still coming off the line in great numbers in a safe and enduring state is why the Mauser is arguably the best military bolt-action design. It is not always the best shooter or the most comfortable to carry, but it is easy to make well, easy to use, works well, and doesn't wear out fast.
I always thought that the proof marks on left side of the receiver were for the stages of manufacturing and the final one if there is 3 was for the heat treatment hardness and the Wappan Amt on the left side by SN was for the fireing proof with over pressure test rounds. Correct me if you know different,
