Beautiful depth and clarity. There's nothing greater than listening to those who speak from direct experience with the purity of wisdom. Thank you, Susanne Marie and Adyashanti. I enjoyed every moment of this conversation. Thanks, Rick.
I love how Adya and Susanne bounce off each other. Susanne sharing her experience and Adya sharing his , helped bring clarity for my self. It is clear Adya respects and see's Susanne's clarity. (several times Adya saying to Susanne "I couldn't say it any better) This was a very natural & yet in depth conversation of the undoing. Very helpful too was how spiritual language can be a hindrance. Thanks Rick for bringing them together. !
Such a subtle topic! I think that the true meaning of what they are pointing to is easily missed and misunderstood. Throughout time people have put down, shunned, and humiliated truth tellers. Thank you Rick, Adya, and Susanne for bringing us this conversation. I see it as helpful and it opens up the panorama of what what is possible as the imaginary self falls away.
What a lovely interview and offering to those of us on this often confusing path of awakening. Adya and Susanne share their experience in such a natural and effortless way that it reassures something deep inside me that everything really is ok. I've hit some of these scary places recently and this interview provides me with not only a map but also reassurance that what I'm experiencing is actually part of awakening. I have had a deep love and gratitude for Adya for many years and now Susanne who shares her heart and experience so openly and graciously. Thank you Rick for facilitating this conversation.....I've been waiting to listen to this one for quite awhile.
This interview has incredible depth and nuance to it. I received so much from watching Susanne and Adya's body language and to listening to their tone of voice. The energetic quality of wholeness is what I feel is the true impact of what this video offers. What I see are two beings who are not in pretense. Thanks to Rick for bringing them together! There is much simpatico between them. I have been enjoying Susanne's audio podcasts for quite a while now, and I highly recommend them. Her easy laugh, naturalness of being, penetrating insight, and unassuming wisdom hits home for me.
What an amazing tour de force, Adya and Susanne! Love the balanced (non-sexist) POV. Susanne gives the sense of the falling away in such a clear and material way, thank you! The harmony between the two of you was heart warming. Every day I struggle with uninviting the desire to fictionalize my self. Listening to you two was incredibly helpful to imagining a simpler way to be. This session will be a go to again and again! Thank you, both.
After approximately 8 years of abiding in what Susanne calls 'Unity Consciousness'...a state of Oneness...the rarified stateless-state of No-Self opened without warning.Susanne has a very eloquent expression of how this path unfolded for her and what may be helpful to others on their journey. In addition to her eloquence she brings many decisive feminine qualities such as inclusiveness, ease, and egalitarian humility to the plane of spiritual discussion...minus the spiritual trappings...revealing what is most natural.
This is an interview I will listen to many times. I love the content, especially the Divine Will replacing the Personal Will. That, essentially, is the intention of my journey. Susanne Marie and Adya bring a sober and coherent dimension to an otherwise dense or inexplicable subject. Both speak from experience and, in essence, say, "Let not your heart be troubled." This is a process and part of the fabric of being.
Appreciated the conversational style and unscripted chemistry, thanks to all three! Particularly hearing different angles and flavors of unity consciousness,and no-self / unfiltered direct perception.
This interview, for me, was both illuminating and enjoyable to watch. I value these two teachers greatly, and the interaction unfolded, as others have commented, with grace and clarity. I’m grateful for Susanne’s and Adya’s attempt to offer such a map. And I’m sure I will return to view this many times.
Susanne Marie is my spiritual guide and dear friend. I have worked with her personally for the past year. A period over which we covered many topics and among the them The Falling Away Of self. I understand how this can be confusing and even disorienting for some. I has been for me. But through Susanne's guidance I started to understand the place she is speaking from. Susanne is only speaking her truth and truth can be a double edge sword sometimes. It is very hard if not impossible to understand the Falling Away Of Self because there is no understanding of it and teachers like Susanne and Adya and many more can only convey it the best way they can. You see they have to speak their truth otherwise what is the point of all of this. Susanne has been a blessing in my life. She is able to communicate on many levels and she embraces all aspects of human life. She is humble and full of compassion and for those who don't know her personally I recommend reading some of her materials or maybe oven reaching out for her.
Excellent interview. I have only had glimpses of no-self. It is great to hear this as a map for the territory. I liked the complimentary balance between Adya and Susanne.
What a wonderful, authentic interview. Love the deep sharing between Susanne and Adya and although I don't quite understand everything (due to lack of experience) something resonates inside. Susanne is an inspiring mentor to me and I highly recommend her to anyone seeking guidance on the spiritual path. Thanks Rick for your input and making this encounter happen, as you do for all your invaluable interviews.
Great discussion on a very difficult topic to express in words. I have great respect for Susanne and Adya's authenticity and deep level of embodiment. I'd love to see more of these two on some future BATGAP podcasts. Thank you Rick for facilitating this meeting!
Adya and Susanne Marie did a good job of addressing what it's like to be in the practical world as an awakened person. They also shone a light on the issues that come up for those of us on this path: moments of questioning our own sanity, fears of losing everything we have that's important to us, being our own point of reference. I loved the discussion on languaging. For those of us who have conceptual associations with "spiritual" terminology, Adya's more secular approach works really well; for others, Susanne Marie's divine references provide a comforting beacon without taking away from what is. Excellent video apart from the sound issues.
Thank you Susanne and Adyashanti for attempting to share your experience of that "indescribable landscape" of no separation. I loved that you both acknowledged the inadequacy of language and intellectual concepts to describe that state, but you took it on anyway. Rick acknowledged early on that he has never had that experience and he provided a vivid contrast to you both during the interview. There were times when the two of you were starting to let go of the mind and just dance with and in the being of it all and he would awkwardly cut in and draw us all back to the mind and the intellect and figuring it out and the description of "It". I appreciate that you were able to come back to the center of that dance again and again in order to give us a glimpse of what that "falling away of the self" might feel like and how one can live one's life within that state.
I think you are missing the point of the role Rick is playing, as so many people do. He asking for clarification for the listener who may not understand what's being said. It gives balance to the interviews and helps to integrate the intellect into the mix which is so often abandoned in the name of Spirituality.
I am very grateful Ric.Susanne and Adya for this this interview,Found me in the midest of my own falling of self...So i couldn't ,ask for better support !.Keep on the great work you are doing Ric It really made my shift smoother!,Love to you all !
I want to thank you Rick, Adyashanti and Susanne for talking so deeply and clearly about the falling away of the self, an important distinction from the sense of no-self that is experienced by some people upon initial awakening. Like Suzanne, when this falling away occurred for me it was many years after a series of awakenings/shifts and while resting in unity. And it took me by surprise too, as there seemed to be no self left to fall away. Experience already seemed to be direct with no intermediation. When this "falling away of the self" happened, it reminded me of an old advertising line, "Help! I've fallen and I can't get up." LOL. Although the circumstances were quite different from what the ad was talking about. And as Suzanne described, it appeared that there was no "landing place" anymore, no matter how subtle. I wonder, though, if there may be even deeper fallings away of the self or something akin to that yet to come. Is there really any end to the spiritual process and refinement of perception? While words cannot capture the reality of the experience, for me the "falling away of the self," collapsed time to such a degree that the now became ONLY NOW, the ever-present reality into which the self was absorbed. It became difficult for me to conceive of past and future in any relative sense because I could not find time. And this falling away of the self carried with it a deeper immersion in love, beauty, peace and joy of the divine beyond one-ness. There was only the only-ness of the divine (as I refer to it) and along with it a glimpse that there was more to come beyond consciousness. Unlike Suzanne, I had no one to discuss this shift with, as she did with Adya. I would have liked to. With more and more people waking up and growing spiritually to deeper, more profound, awakenings and insights, I look forward to more interviews like this being possible. Namaste.
Thank you! Finally a coherent comment from someone. I watched a few of your videos and enjoyed them, Gianni. I do remember Susanne saying: Everything is Now, Now, Now. I would have liked to have heard more from them regarding their lived experience. This 'next step' feels to be like a hair breath out of my reach at this time, but I can sense that it is close. The veil is very thin indeed. The unlocalized self is almost continuous, and I can tell that something is still aware of that. I am enjoying the dissolution of Self is all I can say at this point.
Hi Daniel. Thank you for your comment. (I'm also glad you liked the videos.) I agree that more of the lived experience would have been valuable content. I believe that hearing about the lived experience can evoke in us a recognition of our own realization and understanding that might have escaped our view for awhile longer. And, in reference to your intuition about your "next step," godspeed! What may seem a hair's breadth out of your reach at this moment, can change in a snap in a moment of grace.
I just felt moved to say Thank you Rick Archer. I think your wonderful. So humble and open and dedicated. I have watched you over the last year. You just being yourself and the way you show up for these interviews really is such a beautiful expression and I really appreciate what you do.
Thank you all for your efforts. Please yes, as part of, " The Map" as you've termed it, more discussion concerning the physic changes the occur during the Awakening Process, i.e. Feelings of energy movement within the Brian, [rewiring as A. noted], the body, the heart vibrating and the limbs in unexpected spontaneous movements. Changes that take place outside of the body, ( I'm constantly being told by friends and family that I'm looking, acting and reacting younger... it's not just the fruits of my meditation practice). Not just here on Batgap but on other sites and in many books concerning, "The Unfolding of The Process" people, teachers don't discuss their physical experience, just the mental aspects... it would be reassuring and helpful to hear of others experiences ... because at time one does feel like one is loosing ones mind. I turn to this site not only for information but also for Validation of the experience I've found myself in. Rick.... thank you so much for creating a vehicle that brings the process of Awakening into The Light, what you are doing is so very important ... please never loose sight of that, as you have said in previous interviews, "Keep on Trucking!". 🙏🏻
The experience of no self based on my own past can be quite unsettling because it's so disorienting. Yet the discovery of that should inform one that this self is but an empty, insubstantial image that shows like nothing else that there's nobody running the show.
Really great discussion of a process of experience in which a general discussion seems almost its antithesis. Both Adyashanti and Susanne Marie have delved deeply into a process that is not often presented because the experience of the audience usually does not ask into these areas. It was a wonderful discussion for me and I expect to view it again. As a comment meant to be constructive, the only thing that I noticed which I would have liked differently, was that I wished Rick could have allowed for some areas of the discussion to evolve further rather than to comment and move the moment away before they felt the point completed. Also, there was so much in this that it was somewhat long to digest. I wonder whether this would have been even better if it were in 2 segments with a prelude to each briefly highlighting the key points of each segment?
The intermediary is a thought - an after-thought - many identify with this after-thought, but it is not necessary. Then all experience arises in pure awareness.
Nice interview. It inspired me to write this. I tend to focus my mind naturally on areas that seem paradoxical or contradictory. The paradox of having an individual life and being without a self: There are a few things that have been helpful to me. The self or soul as an intervening principle between the divine and the material at some point becomes unnecessary. At that point one realizes no-self. The soul is not the individuality or the identity. Those remain. It is the entity. It is a sense of self. This sense is an amorphous, changing conceptual entity that has always been with us on a subtle level of consciousness. It is associated with a matrix of ideas about who we are as well as feelings and sensations that have habitually been associated with this subtle idea. When this subtle idea of self is no longer grasped onto, because we realize that this is not who we are, a shift happens. We now become centered in what is beyond thought. All knowings, individual proclivities, skills, capabilities, preferences remain. We still know who we are (identity). We still know what we like to do (individuality). The habitual grasping onto this subtle sense of self (entity) has disappeared. With it goes the bulk of suffering in our life. When the self is dropped it is important to understand what is dropped. It is not the knowledge and skills, or capabilities. We don't lose our individuality or our ability to function. These are all discrete things that we will always have. In Buddhism, they call the self a collection. That collection still exists, however, the subtle emotional mental idea that thought it owned this collection is now gone.
I liked where you were trying to get to Rick with regard to the sense of a self, our lived humanness, in the broader context of awakened being.....I like to think of it as a continuum...a spectrum in a sense.....where I am 'God' and 'God' is me are paradoxically happening in the same moment ... from the perspective 'I am God' 'I' am experiencing the living being of God in action and from the perspective of 'God is me' there is little sense of a 'me' more a sense of God sensing the living experience through me, as me, from these eyes, mind, body. In this way I related to Susanne's comments about the sense of becoming a pure sensory being, a heightened sensory organ that feels very different form the 'normal' human senses.
They're not called asylums any more, the psychiatric hospital is where people end up these days when they can't find the proper help and support with integrating some of these often intense, spiritual shifts. Psychiatry loves to diagnose and medicate anything it can get its grubby hands on and the vulnerable, newly awakened are an easy target. So thank you Rick, Adya and Susanne for starting to provide some much needed information and support for getting through some of the more challenging stages of evolving consciousness.
I'm glad you asked some clarification about the meaning of unity consciousness Rick. It's so important. I assumed for years that my own experience was not unity consciousness because I was afraid to open up about it with teachers after some didn't immediately validate my experience. What Susanna describes as unity resonates well with me. As with some of the no self aspects, though not as radically in myself, perhaps that is coming later. It's great to have some idea of the map of this development and to share openly about the variety of ways that map can unfold. I don't feel afraid of the falling away of self, though some deep personal trauma is coming up for cleansing now, perhaps to lay the foundation for this next shift. I wonder, do you know of any therapists who specialise in trauma with a focus in spiritual awakening? Preferably who can be flexible with prices, as I'm on a low income. Would be a great help :) thanks so much for your work, these conversations are invaluable to me and many others xx
Quote: " I assumed for years that my own experience was not unity consciousness because I was afraid to open up about it with teachers after some didn't immediately validate my experience. " Please don't take this personally..... but.... Unity consciousness means you and the other beings are the same one being. So why would you be "afraid to open up about it with them". Why would you care about validating your expeience? Spirituality is entirely the stopping of the error "I am this body" "I am this mind". So therefore one cannot care what others think, because one is not identified with one body and one mind. If it is a past experience, then it is just a memory. Spirituality is about Now. In fact, you are Now.
In unity you may see the same self when you look at another being, but that doesn't negate your humanity. If anything, it reveals more of your humanity and opens you to greater human openness and vulnerability. Also, having the experience doesn't mean you have a mental framework to make sense of it. It can be very confusing without such a framework, especially when mixed with unresolved psychological issues (which are not magically resolved simply by recognising the unity of consciousness). I've checked my experience with well respected teachers and now know what it is and that it is authentic.
I would agree with all these further clarifications. I'm still unsure from your wording as to whether you are referring to a past experience or an ongoing state.
Its an ongoing experience. Initially it was very intense and overwhelming and led me to leave my job so I could rest and integrate. Now it is more grounded. As Susanna and Adya say it has become normalised. It varies in intensity and is sometimes more profound than at other times but on the whole it feels grounded and constant. Resolving my fears of rejection and ego death are my next focus (hence inquiring about a good therapist who is sensitive to these issues)
Thank you to Adya for saying that what is referred to as "divine" will is simply what is happening or what is. It's been just recently that something was seen and all the terminology became irrelevant and completely unnecessary. I think it keeps people looking for something else.. something special. It sure did for me. I am very surprised by the simplicity of all this. Now I feel that all the spiritual talk and terminology are just huge distractions and I can't understand why it's talked about this way. What is the point? How does it help anybody? I'm sincerely curious. I guess it made sense to me in reference to the big spiritual experiences I had but when I finally got really really honest with my experience I had to admit that non of that was anywhere to be found and I was left with this simplicity. feel stupid even saying those words because I've heard it said so many times, "this is it" but was still looking for something else so missed the obviousness. I couldn't call this no self or unity consciousness or anything and maybe that's because I haven't reached those states or stages but non of that seems to matter anymore. There is no interest in looking for something other then this (not that that's possible). All the time I was attempting to do only lead to so much misery. I feel sad to see what appears as so many people being mislead and sold something special and how it perpetuates the belief in being somehow not ok as they are. People hear things like having a "no self" experience and start looking for it while rejecting their own experience (themselves) I can see how it may be usefully to orient the mind to a particular experience that seems unfamiliar but even to call it a "no self" experience couldn't be actually true. It provides a sense of safety and ground that isn't actually there I highly respect, love and admire both Susanna and Adya and I appreciate this conversation. Susana has always showed up very authentically and honestly and never put herself on pedestals. I feel lucky to know her. I also feel lucky to have found Adya years ago when I was experiencing these "awakenings" and had no context for what was happening. Adya helped me relax a bit and trust what was happening. Without his guidence I may have ended up in a much more fearful and confused state of mind. Thank you
"Q: When a man realises the Self, what will he see? Ramana Maharshi: There is no seeing. Seeing is only being. The state of Self-realisation, as we call it, is not attaining something new or reaching some goal which is far away, but simply being that which you always are and which you always have been. All that is needed is that you give up your realisation of the not-true as true. All of us are regarding as real that which is not real. We have only to give up this practice on our part. Then we shall realise the Self as the Self; in other words, ‘Be the Self. At one stage you will laugh at yourself for trying to discover the Self which is so self-evident. So, what can we say to this question? That stage transcends the seer and the seen. There is no seer there to see anything. The seer who is seeing all this now ceases to exist and the Self alone remains. "
Lisa you are so right when you say this. I feel exact same thing. "Now I feel that all the spiritual talk and terminology are just huge distractions and I can't understand why it's talked about this way. What is the point? How does it help anybody? I'm sincerely curious."
On the talk about nature, the reference always leans towards the gentle quiet side of nature but I've found even trees can be less than peaceful. I remember going off a hiking trail into a grove for some meditation (something I have done many many times in this wood and others) but this one time, the deeper I reached, the more I felt a place of combat between the roots and I had to get out of there. I had no trouble finding another spot more conducive to meditation further along with no such vibes. This was a unique experience but it taught me that looks can be deceptive even in nature. Also, its important to use common sense and know your limits - I've run into rattlesnakes, tarantulas, coyotes, and bears and while a really advanced master may be able to remain safe, I'm certainly not one of them.
You may find it interesting to look up Intelligent Trees and Dr. Suzanne Simard on RU-vid. There are several fascinating talks on how trees network with each other, warn, share nutrients and recognize friends and family. But there can also be conflicts.
I thought he checks in on the technical aspects as host such as leaving time to mention the two guests' websites and offerings. He probably has a number of topics prepared beforehand and has to decide whether to cover or skip and is more aware of what the off camera people are doing at the same time.
It's worth noting here the context for the discussion. As mentioned in the interview, there is a pre-Unity no-self stage Adya also called awakening but is also paradoxically called Self Realization. The difference in terms is due to tradition and/or experience. This evolves into the Unity stage where Self within is also recognized in the world. This usually evolves as a progression of recognizing everything we experience as my Self, leading to an "aggregate" or wholeness. Adya associates this shift with the gut as in "head, heart, gut" but Susanne experienced the gut/ existential identity release at the end of Unity instead of the beginning. (on her web site, the video Awakening of the Body goes into her experience in more detail) And then the primary topic of this conversation, the post-Unity stage Adya has taken to calling no-self. But in this case it's more no-Self or post-Atman. This is called Brahman or Brahman Consciousness in Vedic terms. It is also known as the Great Awakening. Just as you once surrendered identification with the ego-self with awakening, now you surrender the cosmic Self and the enlightenment to date. Big subjects and beautifully explored in this interview. I'd been looking forward to it.
Please note that I am not employing any "Neo-Advaita" rhetorical technique in the following. (That would be accurate if I said the following about a Relative world conversation, like about having lunch.) With that disclaimer, this specified metaphysics does not make any sense. Who is it who is having all these "experiences" and "consciousnesses" ? There is Brahman. Brahman is Existence-Awareness-Bliss. Brahman becomes limited (veiled) and that is Jiva (the individual), which is a causal body that contains karmic tendencies (vasanas or samskaras) that cause the continued reincarnation of the jiva, in the form of a physical body and a subtle energy body. Brahman when it is involved with a particular being is termed Atman, but it is the same. Brahman = Atman. The "I am the body" thought causes further karma and further births, until the false identification ceases. When it ceases, then there is no more veiling, and Awareness simply is. Nothing else exists, and manifestation is seen as simply an appearance in Awareness. The bodies - including all thoughts, emotions, feelings, intuitions - are insentient stuff. When someone has a first temporary experience of false identification ceasing, that is "awakening". When it is permanent, that is "Self-Realisation" aka "Enlightenment". (This particular paragraph is also the definitions used by Adya.) Any variations in experience while still identifying with the body may be fun, but they are irrelevant. Spiritual practice is trying to drop false identification permanently. Various different "schools" have different methods. “We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.” - Kalu Rinpoche
Well - this isn't metaphysics, it's human potential and a description of the process of the unfolding post-ego, also called transpersonal or post-personal development. It was described thousands of years ago in texts like the Yog Vasishtha but in recent years has come to be lived by quite a few more people than it has in quite some time. "Who" varies with each stage as each stage is a shift in our sense of self and of the world. Broadly, we shift from an ego-based personal self to cosmic Self (Atman)(with variations like "no-self"). Then that same Self is discovered in the world. And then beyond Atman into Brahman. "Brahman is Existence-Awareness-Bliss" aka sat-chit-ananda. While this is true, these are more precisely the qualities of Atman and Self Realization when it is fully established. So the phrase is true like "Atman is Brahman" is true. But this actually describes a recognition called a Mahavakya where Atman is recognized to actually be Brahman. We might describe this as one of the recognitions of the Brahman shift. If we word the translation "This Self (Atman) is Brahman", we can see it's relevance to the interview. Keep in mind another saying - Only Brahman knows Brahman. As Brahman is beyond the dynamics of consciousness and thus experience, it cannot be known in the way prior stages where. And it is certainly not known by the mind. And thus trying to "figure it out" will fail. On the veil, we can use the analogy of going to a movie. Before awakening, we experience the movie as real. We are caught up in it. After awakening, we recognize it's just a movie we're observing. With Unity, we know ourselves to be the movie, and the projector, and the screen. With Brahman we see through even the screen of consciousness. In this case, there is 3 layers - local jiva, which is a function of consciousness being aware of itself at every point - jiva being one point. Atman which is consciousness also aware of itself globally. And Brahman which precedes consciousness. Of course, some use these terms more loosely or differently. It's not a thought or an ego that causes karma and rebirth, it's identification with those. Someone awake still has thoughts. The difference is they're loosing identification with them. (ego first, then various constructs over time) Brahman does not "get involved" with anything from this perspective. From the view of Brahman, the world has never even arisen. To quote Shankara: Brahman is real the world is not real [the half truth] Brahman is the world We could say there is a world appearance but it is nothing but Brahman, uncreated. "manifestation is seen as simply an appearance in Awareness." Yes - this is the reality (literally seen) when refined perception develops, usually after awakening/ Self Realization. But with Unity, there is a recognition I am that appearance also as it is also a function of awareness that I am. etc The bodies are also recognized to be non-separate and later to be Brahman, not awareness. There is NOT a single awakening to the ultimate truth. Like all prior human development, it is a process that arises in stages. Truth evolves. In the video, Adya was using the word awakening as equivalent to the pre-Unity no-self. This is equivalent to Self Realization. Some do use "awakening" for temporary experiences, but it's not a real awakening if we fall back to sleep again. Adya has described awakening as being abiding and non-abiding but thats not quite the same thing. With non-abiding, the shift has taken place but we fall back into the mind. It hasn't been lost but rather overshadowed for a time. This is different from an experience where there has not been a shift. (Adya may have used the term differently as some other point, but this is what I'm aware of) Of course, we can analyze subjective experience in all kinds of ways and debate endlessly what this or that is or what someone meant. To the quote, we can say that we discover we are nothing, then that we are everything, then that we are an even greater nothing. (laughs) And the new nothing they discussed in the video turns out to just be the foundation of an even more remarkable unfolding. :-)
Thanks, that was far more coherent than anything expressed in the video. I cannot think of any reason for "post-personal development" or "even more remarkable unfolding" other than perhaps as an aid for spiritual teachers. (It reminds me somehow of E.E. "Doc" Smith :) ) But I'll try to find that in Yoga Vasishtha. Meanwhile, there are a couple of areas of possible inquiry. You stated: "As Brahman is beyond the dynamics of consciousness and thus experience, it cannot be known in the way prior stages where." and :"Before awakening, we experience the movie as real. We are caught up in it. After awakening, we recognize it's just a movie we're observing." In all other uses of the movie analogy, it would be put "we recognize we are just a movie we're observing". Otherwise, you are still a regular human being trapped in a movie theater while some guy forces you to watch movies. Seems creepy. "And it is certainly not known by the mind." Of course. "And thus trying to 'figure it out' will fail. " As Adyashanti once said "We basically believe things either that we've been taught, sold or we really, really hope." That is why someone might believe that something that was happening to them was "good", without any sort of critical examination. And, in fact, the most essential subject of investigation is "What is better?". Most people are involved in "accomplishing things" without any real idea of whether those accomplishments actually make things "better", because it takes a significant amount of rational thought to discern that. Any "gut feelings" or "intuitions" about what is "better" are just genetically programmed instincts. For example, we find a bowl of grapes to be better than a bowl of gravel, or a bowl of lawn grass. That is because we are programmed by our genes to "like" food appropriate for our biology. The only thing that is not programmed is rational thought - the system that can override our genetic programming. Without rational thought, everything that we encounter is effectively random, and our reaction is just programming - like robots. Only when we apply reason, and investigate "Who am I", "What is the situation" and "What is better", can we possibly know how to proceed. "The remark of even a child is to be accepted, if it is in accordance with reason; but the remark of even God Himself, the creator of the world, is to be rejected like a piece of straw if it does not accord with reason" - Sage Vasistha (from Yoga Vasistha II:18)
I discovered again and again that the Peace is Supreme. Love is Supreme. Ananda is Supreme. Enjoyment is Supreme. Relaxed Attention is Supreme. Loving approval and acceptance of the Present Reality is Supreme. What is called “awakening”, “enlightenment”... is a glorified name given to the relaxed attention free of unnecessary thoughts. What is called “Unity consciousness”, “God Consciousness”... is a glorified name given to the Loving approval and acceptance of the Present Reality. What is called “no self”... is a glorified name given to Complete Relaxation… Complete Let Go… Complete Surrender. What is called “nondual experience”... is a glorified name given to Complete Relaxation… Complete Let Go… Complete Surrender.
Funny interview. Suzanne says can we talk about direct experience ... Rick proceeds to go into ten minute intellectual mind dialogue ... Suzanne and Adya exchange a few glances. I wonder if Rick can see the blinding obvious way he is defending against the direct awakening experience in such a way
Another example of imagining what is in someone else's mind without knowing the person. Rick has done over 300 of these interviews! He was the one who taught Deepak Chopra to meditate in the 1970s, He has heard comments like yours many thousands of times. Intellectual understanding is necessary in order to know what is "better". It is true that spiritual practice often involves getting control of the "monkey mind" and its uncontrolled thoughts. But that is after investigating your situation intellectually with dispassion.
TheKstuart Intellectual understanding may be appropriate at the right time, but I don't think after one of the interviewees very clearly and obviously tries to steer the conversation towards talking of direct experience is one of those. Rick is doing the exact opposite of what she suggests, without (initially at least) realising, hence why it is funny
After Awakening and dissolution of self and my gurus and even Agastya Nadi acknowledging it, i kept myself from spiritual people for ten years. Now 20 years after my awakening I'm looking at these 'gurus' on this site. Very interesting.. some of them could also do with a break from conceptualizing lol
WE think the miracle is becoming One with God(unity consciousness).But the real miracle is God experiencing Itself as you. The little me is the real miracle. But that will eventually become unsustainable(we get sick and tired of the suffering)and so drop ''me'' and become again,ME.
I have yet to meet one woman other than Bernadette Roberts, who comes across authentically with regards to their allegedly spiritual experience. They all appear emotionally inflated and unreal as if they had talked themselves so much into feeling all that unity consciousness nonsense, that they finally end up believing they are enlightened, which is fine, as long as they don't start teaching.
Start with Bernadette Roberts "What is Self?" (book). Get newest edition. Best resource on "no-self" I know. And I assume she is where they got the phrase from.
Feel better about yourself now thomas? you are an ass, but are clearly very good at mental masturbation as rali puts it. If you could set your butthurt ego down for a minute. Rali might actually be able to help you get out of your bullshit bubble.
Sexist much, Tommi? Seriously, there is only one woman who comes across authentically, and you are the judge of that correct? When are we going to come out of the dark ages and recognize the awesome variety of teachers that exist? Susanne to me sparkles of authenticity and level headed clarity.
You're not reading his actual words. He starts out with "I have yet to meet one ... " which clearly is giving space for "meeting some in the future". Otherwise he would have said "There is only one..." if he was being sexist. If one wears "Feminist Glasses" 24 hours a day, one only sees "Male Chauvinists".
I guess that depends greatly on one’s own taste and preference. I have read only one teacher whom I have found purely authentic - Bhagwan Sri Ramana Maharshi. Almost every other teacher I have found a little mixed with his/her own vested interest and the desire to look and sound certain way. However, I see no good reason to make it a woman versus man issue. One can also make spiritual teaching a black versus white issue. Jewish versus non jewish issue. Rich versus poor issue. Tall versus short issue. Young versus old issue. American vs Australian issue. American versus Chinese issue. Those who have hair versus those who don’t have hair issue. However, I don’t see any such division really necessary or useful in this regard.
No sign of the seven (yo)? Is the forum safe from his stalking and attacks? I hope so. There used to be some community and comeraderie, actual adult conversation here.Please stay under your rock seven.
Posting again because the earlier comment is not showing for some reason: Nice to hear from you, Brazfan! When you have some time, I would love to get your views on the "teacher" few folks have been promoting. To me, he comes across as another fraud. He goes by the name "Rali". You can read some comment exchanges on the thread started by TOA (me) on the RU-vid Channel "Naked Reality" and the video title "Enlightenment : Kundalini... " and "Enlightenment: Gurus ain't shit.."
There is some interesting reading by Sri Aurobindo about 'Intermediate zone teachers'. Google search it. I have seen Bali's vids here. He is no where even close to this intermediate zone. Most, if not all, of these new video teachers have 'fallen into a trap' warned about in all of the real teachings. These introductory or initiatory 'awakenings' ARE becoming more common. But, they are the signaling of the real work to be done to 'finish the journey'. This is the time to become a serious student, not hang out your shingle as a 'teacher'. Mariana Caplan, who I don't have a ton of respect for BTW, makes a lot of good points in her book 'Halfway up the Mountain'. I cannot say these 'teachers' are doing more harm than good but I am very, very wary and discriminating in who I listen to for 'spiritual advice and teaching'. The dangers are huge. I speak from experience. The best source I have seen to help discriminate 'real' teachings and teachers is the website 'Enlightened Spirituality'. Timothy knows the difference and tells it like it is. He knows, inside and out, from experience. Only the teaching that we are ready for at a given time will help us, so I suppose Bali and these other beginner level teachers are serving someone. I'm sticking with the Gita and Vedas, the Sufi's, the tried and true teachers and paths from history. PS, I can pretty much promise that most of these video teachers spend far more time behind their computers than they do in actual spiritual practice. Call me arrogant, fine. I live my life in service, practice and humility, that's a fact.
I find it funny how no-one ever seems to notice Adya is suppressing and disconnected from his base chakra life force (it's my assumption that's why he is always getting sick) and that mostly these people are frozen. See how Adya is frozen from the pelvis down. See the "holding on" in the body that susanne has - hers is more total body holding on careful and hesitant movements. Watch the body language of everyone, and the tone of voice and the level of energy. Very controlled still. Not having a go at anyone, just seems that a lot of non-dual people end up frozen in the physical embodiment - anti-life and mistrust of the physical power and impulse. Just an observation.
They're actually describing 3 things. The no-self prior to Unity. (aka awakening) Unity itself, which is not just an internal oneness but oneness with the environment. We progressively recognize ourselves as everything we experience. And then what Adya mentions as the post-Unity no-self, the main subject of discussion, also known as Brahman or Brahman Consciousness. This goes beyond Atman and the dynamics of consciousness into totality. It's kind of a no-self and a no-Self.
David B Hey David, i read all of your comments and you seem to really get it. So i wonder if you could help me. I understand from direct experience that what I am is this formless, non local, timeless awareness. What stage would that be? Even in the “no self“ stage, there still must be this absolute awareness? Also my first comment was not right, i never had the experience that everything is myself, it seems that there is only life experiencing itself. Hope you can help.
Dear Rick, About your question If there is some diafano or transparent agent (a very subtle Self) that is the subject of our experiences and perceptions.. My point of view is that if there is not something to ground the universal consciousness in the physical mind and the body, perception is impossible. Universal consciousness is unrelated to everything and hasn't any other experience than experiencing itself. Thus experience is possible only when something is grounding consciousness in the individual body and mind. Now the question that arises is this. What is this that grounds universal consciousness in the individual body and mind. Sri Aurobindo says that Atman is our Divine Self Identical with Brahman the universal Self and the Atman unfolds in the individual Soul and the individual Soul unfolds in us as the psychic Being which has an active role in the process of evolution in matter and the returning to Spirit. He says that Atman is beyond and outside the process but the Soul is into the process and in the Soul there are all possibilities that every individual will express during its journey in the embodied life. Every Soul though is essentially one with Atman and Of course one with Brahman is individual. Each man has its own individual Soul? This Soul is the subtle agent or subject of our experiences. The ego is a temporal tool in the process of evolution of the Soul. And according my experience and knowledge the direct instrument of the Soul is the sattvic ego or the discriminative one as Yogananda call it and not the physical-vital ego which is rajasotamasic, unconsious and mechanical. with love Atman
I discovered again and again that the Peace is Supreme. Love is Supreme. Ananda is Supreme. Enjoyment is Supreme. Relaxed Attention is Supreme. Loving approval and acceptance of the Present Reality is Supreme. What is called “awakening”, “enlightenment”... is a glorified name given to the relaxed attention free of unnecessary thoughts. What is called “Unity consciousness”, “God Consciousness”... is a glorified name given to the Loving approval and acceptance of the Present Reality. What is called “no self”... is a glorified name given to Complete Relaxation… Complete Let Go… Complete Surrender. What is called “nondual experience”... is a glorified name given to Complete Relaxation… Complete Let Go… Complete Surrender.
What is often called the State of Enlightenment is simply Mental Relaxation… the ceasing of thinking. Meditation, spiritual inquiry, mental investigation, contemplation is the process of learning to ease and to let go of thinking. … Let go of thinking for five minutes… what is left… is what is called Self. The realization of That is called… Self Realization.
What I discovered again, again and again and again… ...is that almost everything needs some practice and remembrance… Just as maintaining a good physical health… needs good diet, some physical activity, walk, swim, play, movement… Maintaining good mental health… Love, Acceptance, “God Consciousness”, “Unity Consciousness”... Surrender… “no self”... “nondual experience”... the “state of enlightenment”... needs regular Meditation, Contemplation, Inquiry, Remembrance…
Love Self. Love I. Love Self… as if you are loving the Ultimate Reality. Love Self… as if you are loving God. Love Self knowing that it is the best way to love the Ultimate Reality. Love Self knowing that it is the best way to love the God. Love Self knowing... that it is the closest you will ever come to truly loving Reality. Love Self knowing... that it is the closest you will ever come to truly loving the Ultimate Reality. Love Self knowing... that it is the closest you will ever come to truly loving God. Love Self knowing... as if it is your prayer to the Ultimate Reality… the ONE… which is all these things... Love Self knowing... as if it is your prayer to the Ultimate Reality… the ONE… which is Me, I, Self… the Ultimate Experiencer… the Ultimate Knower… the Only One that truly exists.
Approve yourself Completely Right Now… as if… you are approving the Ultimate Reality… Approve yourself Completely Right Now… as if… you are approving the Only ONE that truly exists… Approve yourself Completely Right Now… as if… there is Only ONE Reality…
Love yourself… as if… it is the Reality of the Moment. Love yourself… as if… it is the Truth of the Moment. Love yourself… as if… this is IT… right now… this Moment. Love yourself Right Now… as if… this Moment will never come ever again. Love yourself Right Now… as if… this Moment will never come ever again and has never come ever Before!
+Karen Taff The fact that you are blindly spamming rali and "naked reality" at so many places, exposes you either as another id of Rali shamelessly promoting himself or just really ignorant, deluded fool who can be easily manipulated. Rick, I hope you do some research before deciding to promote someone who is in spiritually primarily just to make money.
Rick said it in the beginning, unless you experience there is no way to know how it is so there is no point in speculating. instructional conversation seems to be useful i would suppose.
There's no escape, no transcendence, no portal where we become other than what we already are... I find white, affluent folk talking about transcendence suspect...I think these kind people are going round n' round...
Why is there a "world"? ================== The “world” is an “experience”. “Experience” is a “relationship”. LOVE is in the root of the “relationship”. LOVE is enjoyment. LOVE is the Supreme Enjoyment. Love costs. Love can cost a lot. Love is worth all costs.
This interview was not useful to me as a seeker, I thought it was not good in general, and the only analogy that came up was, it was like watching two drunken people (the interviewees) trying to describe what it felt like to be drunk, I thought the interview never really got started, stumbling about and grasping for phrases, and i thought the distinction they made between no-self and unity consciousness was somewhat silly, they looked at times to be operating from some position (intellectual one) which made me question whether they have had realizations at all, strange interview.
This interview can be incomprehensible to a beginner on the path or one who is merely curious. If approached by the mind it may not make sense. Adya and Susanne are speaking from their experience, not an intellectual point of view. The distinction between no-self and unity consciousness will make sense to one who either has entered therein or has some taste of them. While it may be of more use to one who has awakened, it may also be used as a road map to one who is on the path. A reading of other comments shows it to be useful to many who heard it. Even the interviewer struggled with it as some reviewers noted.
Trust yourself. This is true: "i thought the distinction they made between no-self and unity consciousness was somewhat silly." There are many more clear and simple teachers/teachings out there. This is the more new-age, soft approach full of psychobabble and mystical claptrap.
Joe DuB wrote: "stumbling about and grasping for phrases" That is why it rarely made any sense whether approached from an "intellectual" point of view or not. Because it was a poor use of language. There are plenty of people who speak clearly and precisely about the same topics, notably Gangaji (also a friend of Adya and also a woman). (BTW to the person who implied, the whole point was non-verbal, and it comes through RU-vid, then why bother with 2 hours of broken English?)
I listened to this whole interview twice, in order to be sure that I was not being unfair to anyone. I should say that I think everyone here is sincere (i.e. no "charlatans"). Previously, I had read some of Susanne's writings on her web site and - despite the fact that I've spent many decades reading a variety of spiritual and religious teachings - I could not understand what was being said in the sentences. All of the words seemed to be undefined abstract terms, and if one used the common meanings of words, everything seemed to be circular. So, since I've read and listened to Adyashanti many times (without having any difficulties understanding him), I thought this was a good opportunity to get more clarity on what she was saying. Well, due to the remarks being made up on the spot, they seemed even more incoherent than the web site. Maybe it was the company, but Adya seemed just as vague and circular. Susanne often would start a sentence and then halfway through, before getting to the point, start an entirely new sentence. Due to the fact that a few people commented how wonderfully clear it was, I decide to transcribe what she said in one spot. I re-checked it and it is word for word: "When the this whatever medium was still lying in between itself fell away that feels more I don't know, my experience, I wasn't aware that Unity had a landing place inherent in it - I wasn't aware. I think that a lot of the nondual languaging that is being used - and a lot of it is true. [List of much clearer explanations from other people] I was able to kind of land, it was always a part, it became an aspect of every experience that was always inherent within every experience was this inherent also peace that which was free of experience so that which was free of experience was also correspondingly arising co-arising with experience at every given moment so that was what was being lived out even though it started to become normalized." This was randomly chosen, and other parts were similar. Perhaps we need something like Urban Dictionary Web Site - i.e. a New Age to English translator. I have some philosophical issues with the anti-intellectual emphasis, but I will leave that for a later comment.
TheKstuart. I hear what you're saying. It's completely necessary to be focused while watching/hearing this interview. I hear what you're saying when you opine that Susanne and Adya are unclear or circular. I did not have this experience. Yes, I drifted a couple of times and reigned myself back in. Truth be told, I do not think that it had to do with Adya or Susanne. It happened when I needed to take a few minutes to reflect on what they said. Your comments imply that you're in some sort of mindset where the Woman (capitalized intentionally) corrupts the Man (the Apple and that Whole Fairy Tail) to become "muddled" and distracted." Two observations: 1. verbal articulations are of course different from written ones. 2. It's best not to have an agenda when listening to folks. You'll never get that hour back... And, TheKstuart, I'm wondering what your intense engagement is with a teacher whose teachings you do not resonate with? Very curious. Maybe you've got a little Oedipal problem? A bit of obsessive compulsion? Couch anyone? Finally, it's disappointing that I'm now wasting my time in responding to your axe grinding.
You seem to be imagining someone that you are responding to ? Someone with a particular outlook, gender, etc. (a Trump Voter, lol ?) You state: "Your comments imply that you're in some sort of mindset where the Woman (capitalized intentionally) corrupts the man (the Apple and that Whole Fairy Tail) to become "muddled" and distracted." At no point did I say that one person influenced the other, so you are imagining that. Rick mentioned Adya was recovering from an illness, which seems the likely explanation. You state: "And, TheKstuart, I'm wondering what your intense engagement is with a teacher whose teachings you do not resonate with? Very curious. Maybe you've got a little Oedipal problem? A bit of obsessive compulsion? " I mentioned right at the beginning why I was interested. Where do you get "intense engagement" from ? Is it possible to just talk about the sentences stated in the interview rather than personalities? For example, maybe you can explain the never stated second half of her sentence quoted above: "I think that a lot of the nondual languaging that is being used - " This was one of about a dozen sentences where the second half of the sentence was never stated. Maybe your telepathic link gave you the second halves ? PS And for you and all the other people who somehow see sexism in ANY criticism of a female, I would note that - for example - I've never had any difficulty recognizing the coherent thought communicated by, say, Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren or Gangaji or Swami Chidvilasananda. So, it's nothing to do with gender.
Right on imos! Your comment has grit. Kstuart is showing signs of stalking to be frank. The only reason I can see of someone taking the time to analyze and criticize someone to the degree he is doing is because of a deep feeling of inferiority. Rather than spending time reading spiritual texts and tearing down folks, perhaps it is time to start practicing kindness and non-judngemental thinking? Which to me is the whole point of this grand experiment: Becoming a more loving and free person.
You say: ", perhaps it is time to start practicing kindness and non-judngemental thinking?" But aren't you doing the exact same thing in your criticism ? Does your message match your standards you set for others ? You say: " The only reason I can see of someone taking the time to analyze... " I said specifically in my message that I spent extra time in order to be FAIR. I did not want to spout a vague impression that was not supported by the actual statements in the interview. So, I spent the time to check my impressions before making a statement.
Was there anything you were trying to accomplish through your comment and observation? Susanne doesn't seem clear to you and you are wondering how can she appear clear to someone else? Personally, I don't find the description of someone's state, "awakening", experience, what happens after death and what visions, angels one sees that interesting and useful anymore. My current interest lies in: 1. How to move beyond "me", "my needs", "my interests", "my desires". 2. How to develop of compassion, love, kindness, forgiveness and generosity for the self and for others. 3. How to love self, others and each and everyone and each and everything. 4. How to see each and everything as the incarnation of the Ultimate Reality. I have some interest in: 5. Who are you - without your thoughts, emotions, without your memory and without your senses? and, 6. What is I AM? 7. What is Consciousness? and, 8. What is left of you - if you take away all your conditioning, memory, emotions, sense, acquired knowledge and genetic tendencies? What is left to incarnate once you remove all that? 9. Right now without your thoughts, emotions, memory, senses - who are you? What are you?
What happened to Adi Da after Death? ================================= There never was a real "Adi Da" (or, Mahesh Yogi or Osho…). There was a human body that kept changing. It aged. It decayed. It was a beautiful child. It was a handsome young man. Later, it lost hair, became fat and became an "ugly" old and possibly depressed man. That body is dead. That body now is burnt or buried is part of the soil. The mind called Adi da too kept changing. It was different when it was a child, different when it was a teenager and the sex hormones were raging, different when it was a young man with adoring fans and was full of energy, aspiration and hope and different still when it was an "ugly", "old", "fat", reportedly depressed man whose disciples were leaving him one after another. That mind is now survived in some book, audio and video. The "superstition" of "Adi Da" lived in the mind of the human name "Adi Da" and also in some of his "confused" followers, disciples, fans and readers like you.
Mysteriously, Ramana Maharshi never went through all that bullshit that "Adi Da" and "Osho" went through. Never stole anyone's wife, never changed his name five times, never abused other teachers (or any other human beings for that matter), never needed to have his image rehabilitated after death in order to make someone money, never plagiarized anything, never demanded "large breasted women only please".
There are some spiritual teachings that say each incarnation (all happening at the same time, as it were) is a drop of personal soul essence from the personal Higher Soul which at the end of a life when the physical, then mental and emotional bodies die, returns to and is absorbed back into the personal HS, enriching it with what has been learned from the lifetime. I like that; feels could be. Suppose people like your guests here could be embodying more and more of their Higher Soul as the 'person' thins out or becomes less and less? Maybe that would equate to the 'Divinity/Life force' that A and S referred to, but would be the individual essence? Hardly ever hear non-dualists talk about the soul, although Susanne did briefly mention ....
In my view, the idea of individual soul is the Core Illusion. It is just same (mis) identification, same ego, same "I am the body" idea with a different name.
"Absolute jerks can realize this. And fairly saintly people can realize this..."..... Mr.Adyashanti. however (who, given his name, we must presume considers himself a 'fairly saintly person') spends nearly two hours playing with a pseudo-philosophy, using terminology which it doesn't take Albert Einstein to realize doesn't permit a single thought to be taken to its logical conclusion.....Perhaps this is what is obscuring from himself (and from millions of others!) the realization that a fairly saintly person is an absolute jerk....And that it might be wise, therefore, to MOVE ON!.......Rick, in considering whether 'the individual soul' survives 'death' is getting warmer as to a 'pertinent spiritual discussion' (if any such thing there be)...But not much warmer.... :)
Based on what I have watched, Rali seems just another talented fake who is in it to make some easy money. I am surprised that people get "manipulated" so very easily. He asks people to ask Rick to interview him so that he can gain more viewers, subscribers and possibly paying "customers", people automatically start shilling for him all over the place.
Sushant Mishra "I don't care if he is in it for money or not" - it matters a lot. The desire for money, sex and power corrupts even the most noble endeavors. Pretty much everything including "public service", politics, gurudom, spirituality even "none profit" becomes self serving, corrupt and distorted once the money, sex or power becomes the prime intention. People distort things, lie, cheat, manipulate, defraud for the sake of money and nothing remains pure or true afterwards.
Sushant Mishra Based on what I watched Rali doesn't seem fake. - "Fake" because what he is presenting is just a mishmash of what he has read/watched of many other teachers. I haven't found anything original or new.
seemed a little spiritually snarky toward you Archer.. no gel .... they seemed to be playing the role and feeding of each other (adya and lady) Ex: you quote his book then he says he can't speak on what Jesus was feeling. weird stuff
What I believe we are witnessing are two exceptional and gracious teachers who are also willing to wield the sword of truth. Deeper than mind lies the unknowable, and in that undefined space words come, action arises, and teachers teach. What may be snarky to you is just plain truth telling to another.
Cathy Gibbons ... if they said what I said you would say, " yes I totally agree teacher, thank you.. sounds like u are perched on a dream cloud being swept away
What a contradiction. Seeing these nice 'enlightened' people.Knowing that the same part of the world 'produced' someone like Trump. His election makes me doubt this whole 'spiritual evolution' theory more and more. Seems 'the West' is devolving back into a spiritual 'stone- age' instead of entering some 'age of enlightenment'....
The "spiritual evolution" theory came out of the period after Darwin's theory of evolution, but before Mendel's Genetics (the latter only really being public knowledge after WW2). So, the false understanding arose - which is still conventional wisdom - that "evolution makes something better". Only when genetics are known, can someone understand that the truth is "evolution makes genes better at reproducing". Therefore, evolution can - and does - select for characteristics that make the organism more unhappy. However, in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, we only had evolution, so the false idea of "evolution makes things better" became part of our culture. Then Teilhard de Chardin, Aurobindo and MMY popularized the idea that if creation is God's work, and evolution occurs in creation, then evolution must be doing something to make things spiritually better. Above I explain why the lack of genetics was responsible for this idea. But, if you look at history objectively, you also cannot find any substantiation for this idea. The Internet is rather perfectly designed to insure that 99% of information is false (just lookup "fake news" in Google), and distribute this false information amongst the masses. So, there is "personal spiritual growth" with one's lifetime, but there is no "historical spiritual evolution".
TheKstuart hmmm. I am pointing to the more recent 'Spiritual evolution' concept that is rising within certain no-dualist circles. A lot of people support this ides ( like for example Eckhart Tolle, ) They see this as a result of the relative large increase of enlightened people all over the world. Though i do not really share this over-optimistic view, who knows? I have been wrong before. I have read and done enough of 'spiritual teachings' that i gave up 'the search' . My Ego is still stuck in place .So i do not have to pretend to be something i am not pfiew... Love debates . But sometimes i am still baffled to see how...now and then a 'We are all One, but some are more One than others ' mentality pops-up in the comment section, ;-p
I was referring to that same recent "Spritual Evolution" concept. It is based on the earlier one I mentioned in my previous comment. And the societal conventional wisdom that "evolution makes things better" started in the way I described, otherwise no one would even have the current concept. The current New Age was heavily influenced by the 1850-1950 period when many charlatans (such as the Fox sisters) preyed upon the new middle class discretionary income. Many fake and phony concepts became interwined with real ones from authentic scriptures. You stated: "They see this as a result of the relative large increase of enlightened people all over the world. " This is an apparent increase which is a result of the Internet. 100 years ago, if someone in Siberia became enlightened, how would anyone know? Nowadays, that person in Siberia can post a comment to this thread "I had the same experience as Susanne" and so it SEEMS like there are more. The concept "the period in which I live is the best and most advanced" is an egotism. The period from AD 500 to AD 1500 in Europe was worse and less advanced than the preceding era.
Someone like Trump.. as if there aren't already billions of people with many delusions, narcissism, rudeness.. but you single out "Trump" as though he's Hitler. Not saying he's great but you're clearly a dope.
hedgerow Before you start calling people names, you should read what is said. Of course there are 'billions of people with 'delusions, narcissism, rudeness '...That's my whole point...Otherwise Trump could not get elected..... It is easy to be a 'keyboard warrior'. Nobody says these things in my face...Strange ; hey? Just grow up.
