Against the New Politics of Identity

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The Michael Shermer Show # 404
In Against the New Politics of Identity, philosopher Ronald A. Lindsay offers a sustained criticism of the far-reaching cultural transformation occurring across much of the West by which individuals are defined primarily by their group identity, such as race, ethnicity, gender identity, and sexual orientation. Driven largely by the political Left, this transformation has led to the wholesale grouping of individuals into oppressed and oppressor classes in both theory and practice. He warns that the push for identity politics on the Left predictably elicits a parallel reaction from the Right, including the Right’s own version of identity politics in the form of Christian nationalism. As Lindsay makes clear, the symbiotic relationship that has formed between these two political poles risks producing even deeper threats to Enlightenment values and Western democracy. If we are to preserve a liberal democracy in which the rights of individuals are respected, he concludes, the dogmas of identity politics must be challenged and refuted. Against the New Politics of Identity offers a principled path for doing so.
Shermer and Lindsay discuss: identity politics: identity or politics? • woke ideology • overt racism vs. systemic racism • liberalism vs. illiberalism • woke progressive leftists motivations? • Critical Race Theory (CRT) • Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) • What is progressive? What is woke? • standpoint epistemology • equality vs. equity • race • class • cancel culture • Christian nationalism.
Dr. Ronald Lindsay, a philosopher (PhD, Georgetown University) and lawyer (JD, University of Virginia) is the author of The Necessity of Secularism and Future Bioethics. Although his non-fiction works focus on different topics, two threads unite them: Lindsay’s gift for thinking critically about accepted narratives and his strong commitment to individual rights, whether it’s the right to assisted dying, the right to religious freedom, or the right of individuals to be judged on their own merit, as opposed to their group identity. In addition to his books, Lindsay has also written numerous philosophical and legal essays, including the entry on Euthanasia in the International Encyclopedia of Ethics. In his spare time, Lindsay plays baseball-baseball, not softball. The good news is he maintains a batting average near .300; the bad news is his fielding average is not much higher. A native of Boston, Ron Lindsay currently lives in Loudoun County, Virginia with his wife, Debra, where their presence is usually tolerated by their cat. His new book is: Against the New Politics of Identity: How the Left’s Dogmas on Race and Equity Harm Liberal Democracy and Invigorate Christian Nationalism.
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1 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 80

@artelc 3 месяца назад

It is also exhausting having to pretend that we can ignore reality. Simply because racism or whatever ism exits, that is not a reason for lowering all of the standards of our culture and society. That helps nobody. I often feel as if I can’t recognize our culture in music, movies, television and art. If you say you don’t like hip hop or rap, you are automatically allied racist. If I don’t like seeing stores robbed, you are also racist. It never ends.

@LewisNClarkAdventures 3 месяца назад

It is interesting that the two main issues, abortion and trans rights, both boil down to having to choose if a woman has more of a right over her body and protected space than either a fetus or a man. If there is an issue where the choice is a woman or x taking priority, x wins. And it’s both sides of the political spectrum.

@haydenwalton2766 3 месяца назад

what else should we expect from sexist humanists ??

@mattturner5429 3 месяца назад

Is there any stage of pregnancy at which you would consider it wrong for the pregnant woman to abort her offspring out of convenience?

@LewisNClarkAdventures 3 месяца назад

@@mattturner5429 Yes.

@johnhall2708 3 месяца назад

Cutting through simple minded reflex judgments - Thanks

@alanjones5639 3 месяца назад

“Hold your identity lightly.” - Julia Galef. Our identities ought not belong to any place, group, or creed. If we are to grow, we must allow our identities to change. Individualists will hold their identities lightly. John McWhorter compares CRT to a religion. It is expressly subjective and political. Its thinking is expressly ideological. Ryan Chapman’s RU-vid video “A Guide to Critical Race Theory” is the best short description I’ve found on the subject. It uses the writings of CRT theorists to summarize their ideology. “A self that goes on changing, is a self that goes on living.” - Virginia Woolf Think flexibly and associate freely. Belonging is a response best reserved for stresses that plainly require group membership.

@lonzo61 3 месяца назад

Well put. Or to put it another way, the pursuit of what is true is vastly more important than one's ego.

@saltchuckwest 3 месяца назад

2 science guys debunk CSJ theory using logic forgetting that the theory is post logic or truth and so are its members. 🛑🧠🛑

@jfabiani 3 месяца назад

No one is immune. The identity they value varies.

@DaboooogA 2 месяца назад

Great discussion thanks

@Trees43 3 месяца назад

The series "Criminal Record" on Apple TV is very relevant to what you are discussing now and the theory that was discussed at the beginning of the talk could be applied to the show. I just finished watching it and am thankful to have the information to apply to the series. Don't miss the last sentence of the last show in the series and the silence that follows. Wow!

@smooth_pursuit 3 месяца назад

Please continue to interview critics of these cultural transformations

@davidwright9824 3 месяца назад

Great conversation, both sides have lost their minds, and we need more reasonable voices.

@user-ht7bp6hy1y 3 месяца назад

I have to say I only discovered Michael shermer last summer. I have to say he is one of my favourite public intellectuals now. The reason I discovered him because of the emergence of the David grusch allegations. I wanted to get views from all sides of the argument. I took a quiet interest in the recent uap issue from 2017 because of something I witnessed on three occasions over 2016. Prior to 2016 I had an interest in the subject but no personal experience. Anyway after discovering Michael I was super impressed with both his integrity and his intellect. He is one of the most sound intellects and genuine open minded public intellectuals out there. I 100% think he is a national treasure that the United States should be proud of. For example I came acrosss Neil de grasse Dyson too but quicky realised Neil is not very intellectually honest as Michael. So for example Neil puts some sound arguments based on science and philosophical reasons why ufos probably bs. But then I see him cynically compromising himself by arguing neo Marxist woke fashionable views and throws out all the intellectual honesty he claims during a discussion of ufos. Because of my experiences in 2016 and my reading my subject back in the 90s I have a sneaky suspicion Michael is possibly wrong on that issue and there is a there there to Mr gruschs claims. But I totally respect and understand michaels arguments and frankly they are sound and make sense. So I am a bit like a gambler taking a card on 12 in black jack. I understand the arguments against but I have a gut feeling . Anyway since discovering Michael last summer he is now one of my favourite public intellectuals and he should be recognised as a national treasure in usa. Glad you guys are taking on neo Marxism intellectually in this one.

@rpeck2832 3 месяца назад

Skeptic and Skeptical Inquirer, my two favorite magazines.

@aroemaliuged4776 3 месяца назад

And this will come crashing down Identity is a social media outcome of our children

@ericdanielski4802 3 месяца назад

Interesting video.

@chriseastopher 3 месяца назад

I feel like the claims being made about stand point epistemology are maybe not being adequately portrayed. He accepts that you can’t know what it’s like to live as X, but then says that’s different than not being able to know about X’. But, the whole point of recognizing that one doesn’t know what it’s like to live as an X is to say that being an X in contemporary society inculcates certain dispositions that relate to the lived experience of an X. Coupling that with the fact that the material world is experienced and interpreted, means that X’s experience and interpret the world in a unique and similar way because of the influences acted upon them within society for being an X. One way to think about this is to say, as a heterosexual, gender normative individual, my sexuality and my gender are not important qualities to me. I go most days without ever once thinking about my gender or sexuality, or if I do think about them it’s so inconsequential that it goes unnoticed. Whereas, a queer individual may constantly be reminded of their queer identity and observations of their gender or sexuality may compose significant or ever present thoughts that impact the way they think about and interpret the world. They know what the world feels like to them from the perspective of someone with an atypical identity-I will never know what that experience is like. Their being queer doesn’t mean that they have access to a metaphysics that I can’t know. Rather, they know about the impact that social structures have on the lived experiences of some queer people. That isn’t nothing. I am constantly surprised at the kinds of things people find offensive for instance. I have family members that find “oh my god” blasphemous and offensive. I can’t even wrap my mind around that, but even something like that demonstrates that our social structures weigh on our understanding of the world, particularly in a social context. Moreover, the organization of society is going to reflect the values and priorities of those with power. If those people with power generally don’t experience the world you do, don’t have the values you do nor assign the value to issues you do-and these normative exercises can be statistically predicted based on your lived experience as a X-then there is a genuine concern for taking in the perspectives of people in these marginal categories and accepting that they have knowledge about the world that those outside of X do not have because the knowledge descends from how society impacts the thinking and experience of an X.

@DeconvertedMan 3 месяца назад

DEI call it DIE.

@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367 3 месяца назад

Are crimes committed by black people (13% of the general population), 36% of ALL crimes, or just 36% of those investigated, resulting in arrests and trials. Is this based on convictions or accusations and arrests? Does the law enforcement system spend disproportionate resources on crimes by black offenders? Do they look harder for crime among black people. Or can they say honestly that the denominator is equal and they are just investigating, arresting, trying and convicting everybody according to the same level of effort, same policies and procedures, same jail house witnesses, etc?

@keithbertschin1213 3 месяца назад

An interesting discussion but once again people normalizing trump. Very intelligent people like you should recognize the threat to democracy.

@lminterests5590 3 месяца назад

There are many women in the anti abortion position.

@lminterests5590 3 месяца назад

I wonder if these two have any pronoun demanding transgender people in their life. Calling people by odd pronouns is not a trivial matter.

@lminterests5590 3 месяца назад

Ah but can the 16 year old troubled youth achieve a morality with athiesm that they can with a Christian philosophy? What may work on the personal level may not hold at the society level.

@user-ll2ed3lt4g 3 месяца назад

With all your wisdom, Mr Shermer, there is clear discrimination against minorities and people with disabilities etc. We have to find ways to address the imbalance. Whatever you say is good or bad right or wrong, equal opportunities has definitely improved from the 1970s onwards so something is going in the right direction despite all our whingeing. Power and prosperity has to be divided up as equally as it can without eroding standards and safety. We are all trying our best.

@michaeljames8410 3 месяца назад

I have no doubt Shermer is aware of discrimination and that we've made progress. We can continue to make progress without applying all the nonsense that's around these days. We can address discrimination without just being discriminatory more strategically. We can discuss ideas without pretending that having a particular identity makes you an expert on race or gender or whatever. We can keep doing our best and make the world a better place,,but we still need to apply logic and reason and stick to our principles.

@just_another32 3 месяца назад

It shouldn't be done in ways that remove people's rights and treat them in ways they don't wish to be treated. That is my beef with it all. It is so very regressive.

@chriseastopher 3 месяца назад

There is no right way to order society or to allocate its resources. The laws of physics are utterly indifferent to these issues. However we distribute resources is merely a choice that reflects the values of those in power. During the pandemic, we significantly reduced child poverty in America because of how we chose to use our resources. After the pandemic, we ceased allocating money for families and child poverty is back where it was. Marginalized people do not have equal access to society’s resources because they are not the people in power-that’s the whole point of this standpoint epistemology. If society we dominated by trans-women, there would probably be many more resources allocated to funding those issues that are of greatest importance to trans women-like gender reassignment can might be covered in the PPA, or mental health services might receive greater funding for young people… I don’t really know what issues those are because IM NOT TRANS. And I don’t see how that’s being completely missed in this conversation about standpoint epistemology.

@ronkrate609 3 месяца назад

poor chromebook audio

@dosomething3 3 месяца назад

24:54 but was is causing this phenomenon?

@evo1ov3 3 месяца назад

It's interesting to see the Gaurdian protocol being activated in everyone from skeptics to philosophers. You all see what Shermer did there at the beginning? I did. Just wow. Its about to go down.

@lonzo61 3 месяца назад

I'm seven minutes in, and I have not heard a single comment that is new in any way. These points have been being made by writers and intellectuals for years. Disappointing discussion. Even so, I have been supporting CFI for years, and following Shermer for much longer.

@haydenwalton2766 3 месяца назад

that's an odd comment (7 min in, nothing new). I suppose the question is - did you still feel that way after watching the whole video ?

@lonzo61 3 месяца назад

@@haydenwalton2766 I quit listening. As I wrote, there was nothing I haven't heard before, so there was no compelling reason to waste anymore of my time.

@haydenwalton2766 3 месяца назад

@@lonzo61 your time, your judgement - of course. but why leave a comment like that ? watch the entire conversation and legitimately (in your view) make that comment. or stop watching and don't comment

@lonzo61 3 месяца назад

@@haydenwalton2766 The youtube police have chastened me. I feel so humbled.

@haydenwalton2766 3 месяца назад

@@lonzo61 I thought it was a valid question

@loyd5583 2 месяца назад

✌️ Promo SM

@lminterests5590 3 месяца назад

I suspect if the founding fathers knew our future they would have put something on Christianity in the literature to support it.

@chhudson1215 3 месяца назад

Does Michael only interview people that already agree with him on identity politics?

@diegoblaster3 3 месяца назад

We DO know why women won't choose STEM careers. After dozens of experiments testing the biology hypothesis, we DO know it's a sociological and cultural issue. Females form their personalities and motivation structures the same as men, but most of the females in STEM careers hate being surrounded by men, and they would choose different careers differently out of social pressure. Add to that family and peer expectations. That's it. How difficult to understand is that. That's why we need social inclusion. That's why.

@billscannell93 3 месяца назад

So leering male classmates and parents who shake their heads disapprovingly at science-oriented daughters are causing countless women to scrap dreams of STEM careers. That's the definitive explanation.

@dosomething3 3 месяца назад

26:02 slavery legacy effect. un scientific discussion.

@fullmatthew 3 месяца назад

I can't take this guest too seriously when he uses terms like "these people" to describe all progressives. Who's using collectivist language now?

@tuckerbugeater 3 месяца назад

This guy betrayed his own children

@coreycefail6704 3 месяца назад

Please explain why people would have Bigfoot sightings to this day … and we have native Indians that have a multitude of words for this creature ….. I find it funny …. The pattern I notice is disenchantment for the public … but an imaginative playground for a certain class of people ….. come on dude …. Let people use their brains the way they want …. You have a choice to listen and engage or not …. Just start rewarding people that are curious and earnest again … not people that just want to do drugs and have sex and feel powerful …. This is the most juvenile society in the history of the world …. You cannot let us be led by these people … but this is the monster your friends in academia created…. At the very least you could have had the back of people Pointing out all the bullshit …..

@503mcbee 3 месяца назад

Lots of cherry picking here.

@dbarker7794 3 месяца назад

Stereotyping all progressives as "illiberal" is surprising from two obviously brilliant men. Also, nothing new to hear here.

@ChucksExotics 3 месяца назад

Individualism will always lose in the cultural and biological evolutionary process to group identity. So what value is it? Individualism used to be beneficial in the context of Christian European America, because we had a common genetic and cultural background within which to pursue individual greatness. But once the country becomes ethnically diverse, there will be group competition. And the people who fail to have group identity will die off. Currently White people are being artificially discouraged from having an identity. Individualism is kind of silly for a person to believe in the current environment. How does individualism benefit me or my family or those who are genetically similar to me? Individualism is over whether you like it or not.

@tuckerbugeater 3 месяца назад

don't get confident punk

@vickibicknell884 3 месяца назад

Yes, because "group think" is a better alternative to individual critical thinking.

@ChucksExotics 3 месяца назад

@@vickibicknell884 you've moralized the idea that being a critical individual somehow makes you really special and better than others. But individualism in the long term always loses to "group think," as you negatively put it So of what good is your "individual critical thinking" if it results in the death of your ethnic group and everyone you are related to? Group think and individualism will always exist, both are necessary, sometimes you do need people to question the groups beliefs and break boundaries. But total individualism leads to extinction and total group think leads to stagnation and no innovation.

@vickibicknell884 3 месяца назад

That's quite a rank, Chuck. How is my comment "moralizing"??? And how does critical thinking result in the demise of one's ethnic group??? Please enlighten me!

@ChucksExotics 3 месяца назад

@@vickibicknell884 it's moralizing because you're saying group think is bad and individual critical thinking is good. Rather than both of them just being necessary and normal. They need to be balanced. Complete individualism results in the demise of the group, because other groups can easily coordinate to out-compete your group, while your group behaves only as isolated individuals and doesn't act together. Europeans are the most individualistic and they are losing their countries to people who are more group oriented. Europeans think that everyone thinks like them, just as individuals, but most other cultures, not all, don't. They act to do what is best for their group. Most people of European descent merely try to do what is best for them as an individual. And they don't care about helping their own group. Eventually this leads even to the demise of the individual. Individualist may be temporarily maximizing their rewards, but eventually their group dwindles away.