@@michaelhall9146 Remember the DMA punishments: first, 20% of the global revenue, then 50% of their global revenue, and if they are still stubbornly refusing to comply, they get kicked out of the European Economic Area (EEA).
It's true, if they spent half the time trying to get ANYONE in Europe to actually manufacture a phone people want, rather than trying to get a piece of the action by essentially taxing and manipulating other countries products, it would be better. However; if something like that happened it would likely be out of the UK which isn't in the EU but regardless, I'd love to see it.
The EU doesn't force Apple to make the same future for Androids. They just need to have an API so Google can have a way to build it themselves on the MAC.
Actually what they are doing is trying to limit their user base...Apple Intelligence is still in Beta, offered in English, works for limited for markets. The EU is a multitude of Languages. So apple doesn't want to get sued for limiting its platform in the EU.
@@marksapollo that’s incorrect, most people learn English as a secondary language in school however very few actually live and work with the language…and a company that is hiring English speakers isn’t representative of the everyday iPhone user. In Deutschland we speak Deutsch.
@@BerlinSummerDays My company doesn't hire English speakers, I can tell you that you are 100% wrong. English is learnt by many people globally as it's easy to pick up and due to the colonisation times. It is the international language of aviation, every commercial pilot must learn it and use it when communicating with air towers etc.
@@BerlinSummerDays You can just look at stats, nearly everyone (above 90%) in the EU gets taught English and not everyone retains that knowledge, but in basically every Nation over 50% can speak a useful amount of English.
@@BerlinSummerDays Have you actually gone to a public place in Germany? Like the Stufen des Kölner Doms? Nobody speaks German there. I have tried and ask people there and not a single person of the 30+ people who where sitting there on a Saturday morning (11 o’clock) could speak german. The only conversations I had where in English and none of the people where native English speakers either. Or go take public transit and listen to how many of the conversations are in German. For me only 50% of the conversations I hear while passing by are in a language I can understand (German and English).
They simply don't want to do it cause the only thing the EU enforces is simply a confirmation of the user that they comply with Apple consuming data from them and proof the authorities that they don't store the data (which they claimed in their presentation.....unless they lied of course). I indeed think it's them delaying the multi-lingual support for ai, cause stabilizing that will take some serious time and specialized teams for every country and it's language.
Meta has also been told not to release their AI, so I suspect Apple was told there are issues with DMA compliance. So, no, it has to do with Apple being deemed a gatekeeper (like Meta) and having to open up Apple Intelligence to Android as well; otherwise, it means Android doesn't get this great feature.
Holy shit do you actually think this will put any pressure on EU and it's MEPs?? This is very basic features on a phone that half of EU don't even use. People care about jobs, immigration, etc. They won't vote or revolt because of this.
They do care, because amist all those other things you mentioned, their devices give them a form of happiness and escapism. Also, having everyone else enjoying cool features on a phone that in the EU they pay MORE for, that they can't use... they will care.
Generative AI is the SAME THING as what is now making waves as the "AI Art" controversy, and that's not offensive to the europeans. It's ALL just westoids and vassals like South Korea, screeching that usury of collectivized "intellectual property" becomes tougher (i.e. paywalling your Twitter OC the same way US universities paywall jobs until you pay $40k tuition to license right to copy their libraries into your brain). If you wonder what is an "european", keep in mind American continent houses a BILLION democratically voting populi. "American" is also somewhat muddled by US citizens. But you actually need AI, to be ABLE to steal text and video feed that belongs to Italian directors and Spansih novelists. China didn't need AI to copy microchip development or concrete construction, but homeland of Apple is not that smart or hard working. Europe produces most of modern day's creative text. That's because WRITING such as Latin script was actually INVENTED in europe, which USA still struggles with and kids don't know how words are pronounced, because adults never discovered how to jot them down without copying the homework of The French. The whole GHOTI = FISH nonsense because you only memorize entire words, which is called optilexia, a learned DISORDER. Europeans are happy remembering great artists like Akira Kurosawa and Hector Oesterheld. It might be a bad call that now they have to be a content farm, for banking infrastructure that has to be crafted by hand and not AI generated, but them's the breaks. Hope not too many "liberals" get pissed off that different places on earth have different lifestyles.
You think general users don’t care about a Flagship feature that the rest of the planet is talking about? Siri getting smarter and conversational? Let’s see how long this argument lasts once it’s launched… (coz, young people).
Will this largely be controlled by Apple ID region setting, by location, or is it by hardware (i.e. iPhones sold in EU will have some lock on it out of the box)?
As someone who tried llm on a old iphone it seized up the phone and made it have tons of lag so i completely understand why they didnt do that ,and it was tiny one
Exactly, and I hate it. The walled garden is the literal reason I chose Apple. Breaking down the walls will make a worse garden, so I say don’t break them down, make them stand stronger. Let people choose their ecosystem so that other companies will make their walls stronger too. I don’t want shoddy integration between everything, I want excellent integration in the ecosystem of my choice. In other words, the EU is fighting for people to choose individual products instead of ecosystems, but I think ecosystems are objectively a better experience for the end user, so instead of trying to kill the ecosystems, we should let them become better. That’s why I continue to advocate for Apple’s walled garden to stay strong instead of being demolished by the likes of the EU.
I saw an interview, and the EU bureaucrat says they want Apple to be like Android. It just shows that politicians do not care about business or tech. It is really embarrassing. The problem is that there is so much anti-Apple hate along with competitors wanting Apple to lose its advantages that Apple is fighting against the majority.
@@thesilverbuilder6335 „Breaking down the walls will make a worse garden, so I say don’t break them down, make them stand stronger.“ How so? How does USB-C make your apple experience worse? For me it has improved, significantly. Because before I needed always an adapter or something for my iPhone, while my iPad and Macbook all had USB-C, now I can just take one cable with me and know everything can be charged, without any issue. How does having more store options make the App store worse? You can still choose to only download from the official Apple App store. „so instead of trying to kill the ecosystems, we should let them become better.“ Where are they trying to kill the ecosystem?
@@thesilverbuilder6335what makes you think that those things are mutually exclusive? Apple’s ecosystem in the EU is just as integrated as it is anywhere else. Nothing about the DMA prohibits seamless ecosystems. It prohibits leveraging control over those systems to suppress competition. People often think that the DMA is attacking the benefits (or the garden) of Apple’s ecosystem. It isn’t, it’s attacking the walls around it, in other words the lock-in effects that restrict choices and suppress competition.
@@thesilverbuilder6335 What makes you think that opening up the APIs makes your experience worse? You can just not buy third party products and have the same experience, no?
Was thinking about upgrading from 12 pro to 16 pro max but now id rather get 15 pro max IF they were to raise prices because of AI. No point in other upgrades from 15 to 16
The U.K. is not in the EU since brexit was finalised, even though a lot of our regulatory principles comport with the EU legislation, we do have exceptions so there is a chance the U.K. could get these features. If it doesn’t, I’ll likely be getting hold of a very late beta version of the software and leaving it at that!
Currently beta is only in the US and apple stated that the public beta will also only be in the US and then 2025 it will be slowly released to other regions.
That is perfect, fine. I'm happy. Like Meta from FACEBOOK. They wanted to train the AI white using all the date vidio, pic, audio and comments from the clients that they have on FB, WhatsApp and instagram from 2007 until today, and they didn't give the client any opportunity to opt out of it. NOO TAHNK YOU GOOD LUCK TO you guys if you want that.
That‘s not true. We‘ve got all the AI that is out there like Chat GPT, Co Pilot etc. The only one missing is Apple Intelligence (at least for the next months) . This clearly shows it is not a problem of the EU regulation, it is a problem of Apple that does only effect Apple users such as me. 😞
Actually, one of Gates’s biggest investments is in Apple. Or at least it was. He put money in when Apple was struggling financially. That’s allowed him to have a “competitor” to Microsoft. How times have changed since then.
I am an Apple fan but I am a bigger fan of the EU so. I default to they probably have a good reason why they decided to do that. Idk maybe I could be wrong we will see.
The EU and its countries respect human and basic rights. The EU and national laws do alike. Human rights are not negotiable so Apple's blame game will fail. Internally, AI cannot abide by laws. Therefore, Apple must let AI make suggestions and then, in a second step, verify whether the AI suggestions do, or do not comply with the laws. This second step is not rocket science but straightforward. Nevertheless, its implementation may need a few extra months. So the DMA just came at the moment when Apple wanted to release AI also to the EU. A different problem is, of course, that AI in languages other than US English need extra training to make any useful suggestions. --robert jasiek
It has to do with Apple being a gatekeeper. They are only allowed to have innovative features if they allow rivals a free ride on the back of their innovation and expense. Apple is supposed to give away the software to rivals so they can also have screen mirroring on Android phones and maybe on Windows laptops. Ridiculous as that sounds, it means any innovation becomes open source and will kill investment as it has no value.
@@andyH_England lmao "innovation and expense" what manipulative way to frame apple's abuse of power. there is 0 innovation in what apple has recently announced, all of these features have been available in other systems far earlier
@@andyH_England No. Apple has to allow other parties to implement such a feature. No one is forced to open up their code. It is just to stop monopolis and gatekeeping, not to force opening up code.
@@AlexTheEmperorPenguin It amounts to the same thing, and there is no point in arguing. This means that a feature designed and invested in by Apple has to be opened up to rivals so that they can use it. This is anti-innovation and typical of the EU's misinformed understanding of tech.
All I wanted from Apple was to have Siri that supports my native language (something what Google’s been doing for years now). Not only this is not happening, but Siri’s going to be as dumb as ever. Google with 65% of European market be like: “you gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers”
Apple 🍎 needs to put more RAM in their products the Google pixel AI should get even better because the pixel 9 pro/ XL should have 16 GB of RAM more than Apple 🍎 and Samsung. Samsung should follow next in February of next year 😅
@@andyH_Englandthe design constraint isn’t “intentional” it’s a legit hardware limitation of LLMs and AI as a whole, very resource intensive on the RAM side but you also need a beast of an NPU to use features like this, hense A17 pro being capable of 2x the AI power of A16
I don't really get the idea that "Apple doesn't have the resources..". How? Who does have the resources if not them? No, they definitely have the resources, they are just unwilling to commit.
How do they want to ruin it? I have been an apple user for 17 years now and the apple ecosystem has never been better than since the EU came and made them, make a proper ecosystem where every device has USB-C.
Gemini is available on all platforms, so complies with EU gatekeeper laws. Apple wants Apple Intelligence to be an Apple-only feature, which is against gatekeeper diktats. So, likely leads to billion-dollar fines.
Well then I will not get a new iPhone like I planed. I’m on a 13 pro and would definitely have upgraded.😂 We’ll see how can hold out the longest. Apple loves money, so I don’t think this will work that well for them and in central Europe where iPhone penetration is lower I do believe they risk losing market share. People in the Nordics will be pissed though.
Yes, because nothing is better than getting your data and privacy violated for the sake of some bilioners that will probably sell it and then build an artificial social score so they can target you better. Oo yes, "the innovation " .
Weirdly, you think the Pixel eraser feature is made by Google. It has existed for many years before Google in pro photo apps. It just took Apple longer to copy it than it took Google!
@@SSpecttree let me tell you something all USB-C chargers are not all built the same people think that if you just use one of those cables, it will do exactly what you want. Hate to break it to you, but there’s many different types that do different things and to be honest, I hate the USB-C charger, you wanna know why because it’s got a little piece that sticks out and if something gets in there and break that your phone is screwed yes lightning wasn’t the best in the world but at least if your lightning cable broke or the little piece on the lightning cable broke you could just go buy a new one. The phone would be fine.
@@amazinghorizon8270 and here’s the thing I hate USB-C. It’s a pain in the ass because again if that little piece that sticks out of the device inside breaks that port is now useless personally, I like how Apple has their charging abilities for their laptops because they connect with magnets so if I’m charging my computer and either I or somebody else hits it cable disconnects without pulling the computer, but the problem is with wired cables that are plugged into a device that can happen personally we need to be switching to wireless charging anyway wireless charging is so much better than plugging in a cable. I haven’t used the cable to charge my phone in years, but end of the day USB chargers or I mean cables are not all built the same some only transfer information others charge things others do other things so someone goes out and buys a USB cable without reading what it actually does they could be buying something that won’t charge their device whatsoeverbut like I said before that little piece sticks out on the inside and anything gets in there and breaks that charging port is now useless
You are completely deluded Drew if you think any EU citizen is going to vote based on Apples AI not coming to the EU. The EU isn’t America, in fact I doubt any American would vote based on a single feature from a consumer electronics company not releasing there.
The problem is I wanted to buy the 15 pro max for Apple intelligence but now I’ll buy Samsung s24 ultra and I think people will just move on to another platform like me. I don’t think is that smart from Apple.
I think it’s a bit of both actual regulatory limitations and Apple trying to make a point of what happens when you over regulate a digital ecosystem. Apple intelligence is deeply rooted not just in Apple systems but services too, they can’t build AI to utilize and promote 3rd party services, that is a waste of resources and they would rather just not bring AI to the EU then waste time bowing down to the EUs rules that not only make apples job of implementing the technology unnecessarily even harder but their competitors get to piggyback off their technology with no effort of their own. (iPhone screen mirroring is blocked for this reason)
This is what happens if you start being unreasonable with big companies, they will just leave and move on. It’s gonna go great when labour puts massive tax on energy companies and try to make it government owned in uk
I really don't care for AI in the iPhone. What I was hoping for using is the iPhone Screen Mirroring. Anyway, I can live without it as well. It's not like Europe is a small single country in the map of the world... Apple will loose a lot of customers.
I wonder if screen mirroring will ever come to the EU unless the EU gives it a hail, Mary, as Apple is unlikely to give away the proprietary software to rivals.
no its ethical I want apple to clap back at the EU For there Bull crap, I chose apple because I like the way they do things otherwise contrary to what the EU seems to forget o would just go with there competitors!
You can still use the iPhone however you want. The EU just gives you more options. If you don't want to use apps from outside the app store then don't. Why on earth should other people not have the opportunity? You buy a piece of hardware You should be able to download anything you want on it since you own it and you're not just a licensing it.
With Labour being in power next week there is every chance by September that Labour will be in bed with the EU promising to respect their laws like DMA. So every chance when the iPhone is released that the UK will also be banned.
I think it’s a combination of all of what you’re saying… but the biggest thing is it’s simply not profitable… in many ways. If the EU is making Apple jump through many hoops, so much so that it takes Apple’s engineers double the work to make it work for that market, I don’t think it’s a good use of resources, time and energy. Especially, if that entity (EU) is being extremely limiting and difficult to work with. If I were Apple, I’d say, “they’re making it difficult on us, then we’re not going to put out the extra effort (and money) to make this work for them. As much as I love the USB-C port on iPhones, I disagree that any government should dictate how a tech company produces their products. It’s not a hugely bad thing now, but I fear if this kind of behavior continues, this is only the beginning of governments stepping in. And eventually, it will turn into something we won’t want.
Exactly what Jon prosser said when USB-C and RCS became mandatory. It’s good for the iPhone but bad that it was a government that forced them to do this instead of going on their own initiative. I fear This will likely set a regulatory precedent which will wipe out the rights of a tech company to make its own decisions about its own products and how they function fundamentally. (Apple’s proprietarization of building its hardware and software hand in hand to be as high quality an integration as possible while maintaining high security standards) The way the EU is going, they are getting in the way of that which is counter to how Apple functions as a company.
Most of the AI features are unnecessary anyway. I'd rather have pro-consumer law makers than a slightly smarter Siri. EU laws do more good than bad for the consumer.
Who knows what AI will bring in 1-2 years. If they push this, the EU may find themselves in a second-class tech world. Hopefully, common sense will prevail, and the EU will compromise on Apple's AI and features and deem them innovative, therefore falling outside DMA/gatekeeper regulations.
Nahh, what’s best for the consumer is their choice in what they purchase and choose to use. Any government that tries to force otherwise is flawed and the EU’s regulations and policies are horrible. I’m glad that these things are coming up now so people can see how stupid the EU’s getting with all of this.
@@MateoOG Tell me how EU laws are preventing consumers from choosing which products to buy. Which laws say "You, the consumer cannot purchase this product"?
@@JenKai0019 if manufactures don’t go out of their way to comply with the DMA act then they can’t sell in most of Europe which then means customers can’t get what they want, simple. In this case the product is software, but I won’t be surprised if the policies go even further some day as they are starting to grow fast like some infection.
@@MateoOG The Digital Markets Act is meant to encourage more competition between small and big companies. It gives smaller businesses a fair chance in the digital market by forcing Gatekeepers (Large Corporations) to stop unfair business practices. Apple is a $3 trillion company with many talented employees. They have the ability to comply with all EU laws but chose to leave out AI. And it’s because they’re upset about opening their AI to competitors for better competition. Or other greedy reasons. Apple loves to hinder competition in their digital space by discouraging or limiting the use of third-party software. EU laws are here to fix that
This is what the EU wants. They think that Apple and other big US tech are too dominant in too many different products in the EU. They're happy to see Apple not offer a product in AI there, and I'm sure they think a local company will step up to fill in the gap.
I honestly dont think that is the motivation of the DMA and DSA. I think the reason the EU regulates tech companies is rather because they have less to lose since the tech companies dont reside here.
EU acts on behalf of France for instance to expediate even quicker cycle of low quality child labor batteries, without having to print money to buy "planned obsolescence" SoC in a new phone attached to EACH such battery, and actually give jobs to adults in tech-based assembly manufacturing jobs. They don't want some Apple manufacturing plant that can disassemble 200 iPhones per hour and send back to component lines so they can funtion for another 10 years. They want Louis rossman to fiddle with solder by hand and maybe drag another 2 years out of a "refurbished" iPhone, and make him rich on the fat margins that FIT under the already high standard Apple asking price. In "consumer friendly" world, Louis wouldn't be too happy making e-waste of $150 phones that he resells for $70 a pop. That's one man that's been macine gunning at his own feet for years, in a complete state of delusion.
What exactly don't you like? Like why would side loading bother you since it's completely optional? I do not get Apple fans rooting against consumer rights. You're not going to force you to sideload apps. You never have to even think about it. Apple fans are weird man, they root for a company like it's a sports team and they actually root for a succeed over the health of the environment or their own consumer rights
@@michaelcorcoran8768 Don't try to understand the 'Muricans, it will give you a headache. Recently, 56% of Mercedes employees at a plant in the US voted _against_ forming a union - and that's at a fucking _German_ company that are the most sympathetic towards unions! How stupid can one be?
I mean, ai isn't such a big deal either. Not that you shouldn't have it but it's not some game-changing feature. If you remove the ai, the latest iPhone barely has much compared to its predecessor too, and apple ai has also been delayed so yeah, save the money mate. Your current iphone is already one of the best phones available in the market.
@@darktitan8085Right, but I still have an iPhone 12 and was hoping to upgrade it when 16 releases, guesse I‘m gonna skip that as well then or what do you think?😅
@@BanXxX69 honestly, thats upto you. If your phones running out of juice, better upgrade. Otherwise, while i don't think ai is a big feautre, you should ask yourself if you're gonna feel missed out. And if you do, should you still go out and buy the new iphone. Tbh, it just seems like better assistant to me, and despite all the unnecessary comparison against google assistant, I've never used google assistant till date on android, and I've also found siri is more precise when it comes to text to speech. Hence, to me personally, i just dont see how ai is a deciding factor.
The situation in the UK is less clear. While no longer part of the EU, the UK recently passed its own Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill, which shares many similarities with the EU’s DMA.
Who pays for all the software interoperability work? Not EU! How about Apple equipment customers??? Sort of like with green bubbles. Android want blue bubbles, but think Apple people are stupid to pay a lot extra for Apple products. Android people want Apple services without paying for Apple software development! EU wants Apple software services without paying for Apple software services. Just think Apple at WWDC seemed to indicate most of these software upgrades would be free. Microsoft and Google are going to charge software fees and cloud connect fees. I pay more for my Apple products to avoid yearly software fees and lower the cost of yearly computing fees.
Doubtful it will last, bet in 2026 it will come out in the EU, since apple is just taking its time and and using the USA as the beta tester for all this new stuff. Apple will like the USB C debocle throw a tantrum for now but come around in a year or two.
I would take side loading over this b******* AI any day of the week but the problem is even their side loading is a pretty ugly form of malicious compliance.
1) I think nobody in the EU will blame only the EU. 2) if this goes on for too long it will harm Apples reputation and people in the EU will move on to other AI tools (and possibly never buy an iPhone again).
No we don't as we want our privacy protected and stop the overreaching kraken from the US and China taking our data for no, accroding to our understanding, logical reason. The transmission of anonymized statistics and error reports is still allowed. With having to open up, well as long as they allow third parties to integrate it is all good. This is to stop monopolis and only affects companies of a certain size. We also do not want something like weChat in China as this would give a company and a government total control. If companies would just behave we would not need these laws and regulations. But it just became too much. And we Europeans know what can happen when a centralized Database with all private data exists. It sounds ridiculous but literally can google, meta, microsoft or even apple know when I go to the toilet or if I have a rare desease before even I would know, and instead of letting me know they keep the data to give me advertizments where I just am confused by as I do not know to have that desease. Making money of my data. By implementing this in laws and regulations all users are protected. People may say to read the TOS but the EU aknowledges that it is unrealistic as then all modern technology would not be usable and send us back to the stone-age, this is why we just stop it at its root and thus not need to stop using modern technology.
I planned to upgrade from my iPhone Xs to an iPhone 16 this fall, but now I‘m simply not. Self-own, Apple. They‘ve become so greedy with their anti-repair and anti-customer sh*t anyway, that I‘m *now* considering not buying iPhones ever again. Double self-own, Apple.
The Apple Intelligence page literally says more languages and platforms coming over the next year (once it comes out in BETA for the US). This is basically like only releasing the Vision Pro in the US to start. iPhone Mirroring will be left out because it's not just simple mirroring.
I assume it is that iPhones are gatekeeper products, so they can no longer have innovative features that are not available on rival devices. So, as Apple Intelligence is iPhone only, this would be deemed unfair to rivals as Apple will have innovated too well and be better than Android. Therefore Apple should open AI to rivals to balance the gatekeeper laws. Obviously, Apple does not want to spend billions making innovative features and being forced to allow them on rival devices; hence a compromise with the EU will have to be reached before Apple will allow that.
@@CrisCheese_ ChatGPT servers don't directly process personal data unless the user has intentionally submitted that during their query. By comparison, Apple AI will be working with huge amounts of personal data. EU GDPR and data sovereignty laws play a massive role in determining how data must be stored. I'm no expert but I do know that our business requires sensitive UK business data to be stored and processed only in UK servers. A quick Google search suggests that ChatGPT is not fully GDPR compliant, and another search suggest that sovereignty laws imply that sensitive EU personal data should be kept internal to the EU to prevent non authorised external law agencies from being able to access the data belonging to their country. I suspect this all plays a role given how sensitive this data could be!
iPhone mirroring might also run in to compliance problems with digital ID and banking security at least in Sweden and probably in the other Nordic and some Baltic countries where this is heavily implemented.
I live in the EU and the DMA regulation towards Apple Intelligence is simply ridiculous. EU forced Apple to USB C, that was a good thing, for every Apple user in this world. But how the EU is making it so difficult for Apple at the moment, is something I get very annoyed about. I’m a longtime Apple user. Not only iPhone, the whole ecosystem including subscriptions and buying apps regularly. I love Apple products, they just work, are stable, high quality, long lasting etcetera. I want Apple Intelligence for my Apple devices. The EU is the bad guy in this case. I support Apple.
I'm just seeing Apple fans literally say they want less options and less consumer rights and they want the environment to be treated worse... They're somehow mad at the EU for giving them more freedom. Do they not realize that just because the EU is mandating that people should be allowed to download any apps they want on their phone, that they don't actually have to do it? Reminds me of the gay marriage debate, you don't have to get married to a dude. It's just letting other people that want to do it do it.
@@xeon2k8 Well that is never Apples problem. If they have made a working version for stock android, the EU can never sue them for not providing an alternative.
@@spokee They very clearly know a lot about tech, otherwise they wouldn’t have made such smart wordings in their regulations, that they can now sue Apple for non compliance. Other governments constantly leave gaps in their wording that get exploited by companies.
