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UPDATE 8 April- Pilot Error- TO/GA hit 4 times by the pilots! "Boeing reportedly told Air France that no technical issue was found on the 777 involved in a serious incident on April 5, 2022, according to La Tribune. The Boeing 777-300ER registered F-GSQJ was carrying out flight AF011 from New York-JFK to Paris-CDG. The flight had entered the final approach to runway 26L when the pilots reported to the air traffic controller that the aircraft was seemingly unresponsive to the crew’s input and was uncontrollably veering left. In ATC audio published online, one of the pilots explained that the aircraft “was out of control.” The French daily La Tribune claimed to have had access to preliminary information sent by the manufacturer to France’s flag carrier which indicates there was no technical problem with the aircraft. According to the content of the quick access recorder (QAR) which compiles flight data, the 777 did not encounter any flight control malfunction. Boeing stated that “the reference aircraft responded appropriately to the commands of the flight crew.” Additionally, the take-off/go-around (TO/GA) switch was reportedly activated four times. The French Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis for Civil Aviation Safety (BEA), which opened an investigation into what is being treated as a serious incident, responded that the flight data was still being analyzed. “A communication will be made when we have a global understanding of the event,” it said in a tweet. Aircraft accident and incident reports usually take months to compile while investigators examine the various sources available, such as the full flight data recorder parameters and the cockpit voice recorder. "
@UCjpyCE4tmU0DZlV3PvzijUA Juan has commented on this on his own channel, essentially 2 alarm chimes with one indicating a configuration warning probably due to retracting gear before setting flap 20 for the GA and the second indicating AP disconnect. They're there to get the crew's attention.
I was a 40 year airline pilot. Last 28 years on B767. Flew all over Europe, and a lot to CDG. Sounds like localizer signal interference (airplane or ground vehicle?), they noticed deviation a little late, botched the go around procedure, as you alluded. At the end of an all night 9 hour flight, all or some pilots on the flight deck (3) can be tired. If one doesn’t review the go around procedure prior to EVERY approach and landing, it’s a cluster F… remembering the steps, in order. I speak from experience 🤪. From then on, I always mentally reviewed and verbalized to my copilots, the steps in the event of a go around.
Same here, now retired, flew 737 (classic and NG), 767, and 747 classic and 400. I’m with you on this 100%. Sure we could indeed be wrong, but when it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it’s usually a duck.
@@4U2CB4UC the 5G thing is being blown way out of proportion. They were nowhere near the approach phase where the radar altimeter would have been required - and as he mentioned, this was a lateral deviation, not a vertical one (except after they initiated the go-around.)
I cannot tell you how much I love this channel. Today's show 10 out of 10. Retired ATC I appreciated the explanation, step by step that you did, including paper layout. Just awesome. Keep up the great work!
As a former (now-retired) 777 Line Check Airman and Evaluator with 40 years as an airline pilot and 13 years as a 777 captain, I can't tell you how many times I saw pilots screw up go-arounds. It's generally not practiced enough in training, and it's a quite complex maneuver with numerous steps that have to be completed in exactly the right sequence in order not to trigger alarms and/or overspeed the flaps.
Back in the 90s I was a jumpseat passenger on a MD-11 and on final they were practicing a cat III landing in clear weather. The plane veered suddenly right and the autopilot hesitated a couple of seconds before disconnecting. The pilot quickly corrected the yaw and we landed but he was very disturbed why the aircraft violently veered down and to the right and why the plane didn't disconnect the autopilot at command. I thought we were going to die. This sounds like a similar situation.
Juan, this channel is such a great resource. I can't recall ever having an experienced pilot giving out information to the public about an incident with a commercial airplane. You explain this in ways that other professional pilots can understand and the non-pilot public can easily understand also.
Just WOW, Juan. Thank you for this. So nice to have a 777 pilot to show us this! I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL. From the big plane stuff, to the small plane stuff, it's all so fascinating!
There’s no one better to analyze this than an accomplished triple 7 pilot and his French speaking wife. Kudos to both, as well as the crew who had payback for every minute spent in the simulator.
@@Av-vd3wk I think you would have to be very close to the antenna in order to do that as the signal is very directional and sensitive. Also I believe a lot of this is cross checked and/or backed up by gps (they are using the loc but they also have their location on their main nav display driven by gps
@@unclefreddy2009 You don't really need to have proximity. To PHYSICALLY interfere, yes, but to electromagnetically interfere, no. At Denver International in 1999-ish, there was an incident that didn't get publicized mainly because it was a nice day and it was more an annoyance than anything, but they had multiple ILS interference events over a 3 day period. At one point, they thought it was a temporary operation with their own 2-way radios that was causing it, but that was determined not to be the case as those radios were on established bands well clear of the ILS frequencies and with no harmonic issues. It was later found to be a radio repeater that had failed in the "transmit" mode and was basically "brute force" interfering with the system from several miles south of the airport. But the ILS was out of service for several days until it was located.
@@baptoufragilise thanks. I don’t know how I missed the end of the video with her. I deleted my comment. I saw the credits roll and then quit the video and missed the whole segment with her :)
I'm bilingual in French and English at (9:10), the pilot says in french, loss of command or steering control, possibility that was the AP at that moment. Then at (9:16) he describes the issue as the plane doing whatever it wants to do. Which means they had a surprise reaction event. ( I have been very specific in this translation) Hope this helps.
"Darn it Bob was sitting on the lawmower in front of the antena watching YT over 5G again ..." On a more serious note, i am happy this isnt a crash analyse vid for once.
I've been a pilot since 1980. I owned a '68 Piper Cherokee 140 that I flew for years. I have about 1500-2000 hours. I wanted to be an airline captain with all my heart then life happened. Married, family, excellent career in automotive, 35 years with Mercedes Benz. Massive divorce. Recovered from love lost but never recovered from financial evisceration. Extremely unfair outcome but once again survived intact. I really enjoy your coverage of the incidence and accidents. I've never tried what you do, making videos. I see that you are human and make little mistakes that are edited on the fly with words and brief description to correct errors. Excellent handling of information. Huge respect. I very much enjoy watching and learning the new navigation systems. I've often thought that if I was given a chance to fly a simulator, full size, I might do very well landing an airliner without ever having flown one before. I know this sounds boastful but I don't scare easily and have handled many tricky situations in my life. 55 year of motorcycle experience including racing. Acrobat in highschool, trampoline and still rings. I excelled in trampoline. Situational awareness is key to survival. Surfing for over ten years that includes being held down for over two and a half minutes. Remaining calm in a serious situation is key to survival. When you have to hold your hand over your mouth and nose to keep from inhaling water, you're in a life or death situation. I wish I had money to share to help support your channel. I really appreciate the fact that you fly 777. I flew from San Francisco to Frankfort Germany and return on United 777. What a marvelous machine. I have very serious respect for anyone in command of a machine that complex. Thank you for all the effort and broad spectrum of topics from aviation to weather/drought and reservoir recovery. These are very much inline with my core interests. I very glad that you do this for all of us that appreciate your work so much. Please continue to do what do so well. Thanks again. Carl Gulbransen
I was going to mention that pilot when pilot said "l'avion a fait à peu près n'importe quoi" that the aircraft did not only NOT respond to the command. But rather was actively misbehaving. Your friend guest described it perfectly. Pilot sounded really surprised and kind of shocked
best way to translate this to english is "its doing whatever it wants" (as opposed to do what i tell him to do)... and yeah, he did sound quite puzzled at what just happened.
Hi Juan. I'm not sure if you read all this, I only read down a bit myself. As a 14 year 777 Captain, I can clear one thing up which I think adds to understanding what happened. That first aural sound was indeed a master warning, but it was the AP disconnect sound. The second is mostly associated with GPWS and possibly windshear warnings, but not the AP. It could also possibly be a speed warning, but it doesn't sound like that doing stall work in the sim, so I'm not exactly sure. My thoughts? They had a localizer deviation as your described, but they didn't disconnect the AP. Instead they manually overrode the AP and it disconnected, hence the constant warning sound. They were obviously temporarily overloaded and never thought to hit the AP disconnect switch to cancel the sound. The second warning, I'm not sure. One thing to note, at the lowest energy point the groundspeed was 113kts. A -300ER upon landing would generally be about a Vref+5 of 145-150kts (155 at max landing weight). Even with stronger winds aloft, that puts them 15-25kts below approach speed and well into the amber band and close to stick shaker or stall speed. This is all just my speculation from my experience and knowledge. We'll know the truth soon enough. Thanks and keep up the good work.
I think the first aural warning is the config warning. The flaps are still in the landing position while the gear is up. The second is the auto pilot. And as the aircraft was light, the VREF is probably between 135 and 140.
A later comment on Simon's report, another AF 777 had the same thing happen earlier in the day. Search for passenger report: "Another AF 777 go-around on 5th April 2022 By Air France Traveler on Wednesday, Apr 6th 2022 15:20Z" "I was on another Air France 777 landing around 6am also on 5th April 2022 (DXB-CDG) (F-GSQK). I was watching the plane’s camera approach on the in-seat screen and it seemed to me that the plane was significantly to the left of the runway. At a very low altitude, in the last minute of flight, the pilot pulled up for a go-around. Could the two incidents be related? Both were 777s on the same day."
There´s just a very surprising statement of the French BEA published, dealing with this incident. An update would be very nice! :-) Thank you very much for your work!!!
I flew into Le Bourget Airport in a Kingair 200 about 40 years ago. The center set me up for the ILS and had me contact the tower. When I called the tower and reported I’m established and IFR tower says oh the ILS is out of service…what? I’m on the ILS and it appears to be working fine. Well you can either fly the missed approach, look for the runway visually, or go to minimums. Fortunately I caught a glimpse of the runway. The ILS was working. But thanks to all the people who tried to give me a heart attack at 29 or crash the Kingair in Paris that day…..sorry you lose.
@@sidv4615 I really don’t remember. I was only at the airport, then the taxi, and then at the hotel and back to the airport. It was all work but great fun!
@@sidv4615 The cars smelled much more and the mofas were much more obnoxious than today. The metro was a bit older. The french were still - french. Not easy like the Italians. Something you have to get used to.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 The taxi driver were crooks. They’d drive you all over the city instead of a direct route to your hotel. And obviously the ATCs were idiots. The best most efficient controllers were in Germany.
@@VLove-CFII Yes, true. Never drove with a taxi in France, we went everywhere by train, metro and bus. Crooks are everywhere. Less so in nordic and germanic countries, more so in southern ones. The worst crooks i have experienced in moscow. One taxidriver wanted 10 US$ (about 500 rubels) from the southeast to the hotel kosmos @ spindle others 2 German marks (about 280 rubels at that time) and other 10 Austrian Schillings (officially 200 rubels, actually 10 rubels). When we drove with a local it cost 5 rubels. And the metro 70 kopeks. At that time that was 70 Groschen or about 2,8 US$ cent...
Regarding home language the only European airline pilots who regularly receive and issue clearances in their own language are the French and occasionally the Spanish. Everyone else speaks English.
I learned something new today about the Localizer antenna! I didn't realize it could be blocked intermittently. I know in Houston, if you live on the north side of town, the tall downtown buildings can block TV signals from the antenna farms on the south side. I guess it's a similar thing.
Interesting fact as well once your far enough outside of the signal envelope the lobes above and below have the signal flipped over which could appear as if yhr plane is flying inverted in comparison to themain signal
ILS Critical Areas. Doesn't look like the conditions were sufficient to warrant LVP's so radar would have been packing the aircraft in at standard spacing. ILS often interfered with by either an aircraft rotating ahead of a lander or by the tail of the one ahead turning off the runway. In this case a THY A330 was on the runway and vacating and possibly bending the LOC. During LVP's we'd ensure that spacing was such that the previous lander was clear of the ILS critical area before the inbound was at 2nm to avoid this type of event.
Excellent Juan. I had heard the recording and the warning horns were as you said. The autopilot disconnect is a distinctive whoop whoop tone. Curiously as you said, you could really hear the crew struggling, groaning and heavy breathing, as you said, possibly trying to fly the A/C with the autopilot on. As soon as you hear the autopilot disconnect horn, their laboring sounds retreat. The FDR data will hopefully give leads to the left excision. I had thought about wake turbulence, but that seems unlikely, but I have zero 777 seat time. I guess the FDR will shed more light. Great work Juan. See Ya
Very good explanation Juan as always, looking forward to the results from the data, and yes it looks at first glance that they were fighting the autopilot. I am sure you know but just to clarify for your viewers that English, Spanish, French, Russian and Chinesse are all ICAO lenguages and are spoken at those countries who speak any of those lenguages, and for any foreigner airline they would speak english. great job
As soon as I heard this on the news, I knew where I'd shortly go to get a professional explanation. Cuz for most folk, news of this sort is scary. 777 is a big bird with lots of people, I can imagine the horror going through the pilots minds as they're thinking the plane itself is gonna kill them. Thinking of the MAX debacle. Thanks Juan.
Sounds to me like the pilot in command was court off guard. I used to do a 777 Auto Pilot lesson in the sims with engineers, to demonstrate the difference between a cruse engage and land engagement. 1500ft RA big clunk all 6 BDA’s engaged, now try and break the controls outs! With a land engagement as you know you need to put a far amount of muscle in to break the controls out / disconnect A/P. It sounds to me like the crew weren’t expecting that.
altough the detailed information on the incident was super interesting i really liked the final part with jenny describing the french conversation the most :)
Agreeing with DM. Fatigue certainly to be considered. Thankful for a safe landing in the end. Thank You Juan, your hard work is much appreciated. Thank You Both. Gute fahrt. Buon voyage.
The plane starts to deviate while on autopilot, and the pilot flying struggles with the controls to get back on track, while the other pilot says “stop stop” (stop fighting the controls), almost like the pilot flying forgot the autopilot was engaged, and it wasn’t until they disconnected it did they regain control…so what caused the airplane to deviate, autopilot malfunction or something blocked the radar as you mentioned…
Seems like they were half asleep after a long uneventful cruise across the Pond...... shit went sideways and one or both of them lost the plot for a second or two......
I (myself french speaking, but not a pilot) don't think that (if both pilots were french-speaking) they would have used the words "stop" as an instruction from one to another human. I think it's more likely they would have used the word "arrête!" (altough pronounced in two syllable) if addressing each other. Much more natural. Hence, I think that they were yelling "stop" at the airplane (or at the situation, for that matter).
Great Work Juan as always! I am not a pilot but learn a lot from your detailed explanation and technical expertise on all planes. Even ex-pilots have been amazed at your knowledge and experience . Keep on the good work on this channel.
At 8:36 he calls Air France HW to stop their climb at 1500ft, that's a departing airplane on its initial climb. At 8:43 you can hear their (HW) autopilot disconnect sound as they stop climbing at 1500ft. It was not a transmission from AF011 at this time.
That sure looks like the result of a vehicle entering the ILS protection area. When my airline was going through CAT3 qualification, we did many simulated approaches to autoland. Many airports wouldn’t play nice and protect the localizer for us. I had that exact situation twice at LAX when they crossed traffic down near the the LOC antenna. Just a guess
On the day you posted this I had a 777X working the pattern here in Central Washington at Grant County. My farm is located at downwind/ base corner of the east pattern for 32R. It turned a couple small circles and continued on. The farm is at 1150 msl and pattern is 3000 msl. Big plane looks really close. 32R is 13500 ft long.
Another good one! Side note- I was on an Air France B777-300 from CDG to BOS last week that turned around about 2.5 hours into the flight for "technical issues." Unfortunately I can't see the cancelled flight in my frequent flyer history, so unsure of the N#.
@@kaypie3112 Too true but GPS easily jammed and no one seems to be in a rush to get rid of ILS. I will be convinced with other techs when they can navigate a precision circling approach to an automatic landing.
Froggy here. Jenny speaks without accent and she's got it right. This would be my translation : "The airplane did {whatever it wanted / bullshit / misbehaved}, [...] We did a go-around, we'll maintain 4000' [...] we'll need some time to deal with the situation [...] please give us radar vectors back to final with a long tailwind leg. However TWR, although fast, was quite clear, (however no guarantee it sounded the same in the pilots headset, this was recorded from a ground receiver). Pilot on the radio asked for confirmation of the clearance in a very affirmative tone, not at all interrogative. Pilot on radio could have been tired, flight was 30' longer than usual. It must be counter-intuitive to disconnect AP in descent, close to the ground, with no visual reference to the ground, when the AP normally flies so well, is used to fly ILS CAT3 (through usual minimums). But how do you know the AP is doing shit and it's not you who is spatially disoriented ? Would this drive the need to do more training towards muscle memory disconnecting the AP first and go around manually, flying the ball ?
Tx u again for a fantastic video..simple and easy to understand.any chance you can make a video of the types of instrument approach pl?,in case u haven’t done one yet..tx u again..👍🏻
Only ever been on one Air France flight in my life, it was back in the late 70s, and that included a real roller coaster go-around situation. Thankfully we all survived it, but only after the hardest slammed-down landing I have ever experienced. As we disembarked the plane the two pilots were having one highly charged and very emotional argument in the cockpit, in french of course. I had no idea what was being said, but the very unprofessional manner in which they were behaving made me make my mind up to switch out my flights to a diffrent airline for the return journey home, and never ever use that airline again. Thanks for all you great work Juan, it gives us all a unique insight into your world behind that cockpit door. David in the U.K.
I did a few flights on AF in the 90’s … only real incident (apart from nearly being asphyxiated by all the cigarette smoke) was a go around on approach to ARN from CDG … 19R was closed for repairs, and I don’t know if one of the earth-moving vehicles crossed onto 1L or the pilot lined us up on the closed runway. Whatever the cause, we were damned close to the ground when we pulled up to try again.
French to English Years ago there was a big FAA(?) hearing on a near cash on the ground in NYC between an Air France transport and another transport. The AF plane was taxiing on the ground and the NYC ground controller yelled "Stip Shat...Stip Shat" The AF plane kept taxiing but stopped before there was a collision. The hearing determined that the French should learn to speak English better. From the recording the French pilots spoke very good and understandable English. But, the NYC ground ATC was speaking Brooklynese, and not understandable English. No one in the hearing noted that "Stip Shat" was not English. English translation of "Stip Shat" is Stop Short".
Doubt that was Kennedy Steve Abraham on ground ATC. He always took care to speak plain clear English to foreign language pilots. His funnies are with US, UK and Aussie pilots who get it.
I've not heard of any passenger on the plane complaining. I wonder if the shift left and the struggle with the plane just felt like a bumpy approach? Scary sounding recording!
So glad that the plane managed to land without any casualties. A scary time for the pilots, no doubt! I'm sure your next video will be about the DHL crash upon landing in Costa Rica, with amazing video of the incident! Also, no casualties, thankfully.
