as a Greek, my country faces forestfires every summer. especially in the summer of '21,it was hell. CL-215 and 415 helped massively to extinguish these fires, as it's our workforce in aerial firefighting. eternally grateful of the "Canadair" as we call them, hope this year i manage to enter the AirForce Academy and letter fly them :)
Excellent video ! Proud Canadian and I love our workhorse aviation development ! When the yanks want a rescue in winter in Antarctica... fly twin otters down from the artic ...that happened 2x. Got to love it ! Beavers Otters Caribous Buffaloes and the great CL 15 Series all Excellent in their niche! Avro Arrow what a tragedy
A real icon, and a handsome design imo. Hats off to the people who fly them too. Also, I didn't know so many countries over in Europe flew water bombers.
north of the med there are just about every nation that has forest are still using them and buying as many as possible withe the change in the weather patterns.
Another example of something designed with a razor focus on doing ONE thing really well, and pulling it off. The reason why so many new aircraft or other military projects fall off the rails is that they fall down the "multi-role" rabbithole. It's a fallacy most of the time, only times it's ever resulted in success has been accidentally finding a single-role design had other applications to other customers than originally intended, such as the F-4 Phantom.
ok canada great they only developed the air frame because of a need for it other country's have developed other types of air frame for different duties so they are all good in their own field of required services.
Had to become a Pateron supporter. You continue to bring value and create excellent content which I am quite sure will serve as an adjunct the official Canadian aerospace archive. I've witnessed the official archives. Dug through them. All detail, no context. You should be funded by the taxpayer. Well done son. The old guard salutes you.
As always, incredible video. Your body of work is quickly becoming the premier accessible video archive of Canadian aerospace history! I hope one day a partnership with Canadian aerospace museums/agencies happens :) Cheers
There were a LOT of wildfires just recently here in Alberta and there’s still some ongoing, and our CL-215’s have been doing some work I’m pretty sure, I don’t remember exactly though, but Alberta has a fleet of them, it’s pretty neat
In the conclusion of this video the stats comparisons are amazing but a bit confusing, I’m assuming these are best production (units) of trips over set time ? I’m interested how those stats are comparable in distance type of methods used I’m certainly not discrediting this platform this plane is a real workhorse no question there .
Wonderful Aircraft! Glad it appears to have a future ahead of it too... One tiny niggle... Great though it is it's not in a class of it's own, the Russian Beriev BE-200 Jet flying Boat has the same abilities. Great work though. The Canadian Aircraft industry doesn't get enough exposure, and is many cases uniquely perplexing..
seems like the Russians/ Soviet Union. are laughing as they are always along side the world in what they do its just they dont blab on about it they build do use get on with the job.
How many liters of water could the Mars water bomber drop they need to make thousands of those style air of airplanes to help save the forest and cities
They have greater capacity per drop, true enough. However, the actual size of the aircraft can cause other operating challenges. These aircraft do not have the same rate of climb, and cannot dive and turn as quickly. Pilots of the Mars have said that there is about 3-4 seconds between the control input made in the cockpit, and the aircraft beginning to respond. In view of their size, that's not really surprising. The other logistical issue comes when locations for scooping is considered. The Canadairs can turn, bank and dive more quickly, and take only about 12 seconds of skimming to refill the tanks. The Mars takes somewhat longer, and so it needs a longer length of "clear" water where they can skim and reload. The Canadair airframe is already quite large, and it has grown with each model. Bear in mind that the aircraft has to be flown over mountainous areas, often in very roiled air, and has to be able to manourver quickly and with "authority.' One 415 pilot I met said "think of stunting a 737 with a full load." I think that an aircraft like the Mars loses some of that manouverability and speed of response. Don't get me wrong - I have a real soft spot for the Mars, and even as a kid I'd nag my dad to go up to Sproat Lake, just to look at them. But there have been a lot of developments within the Canadair "family" - not only engine and avionics, but airframe and control surface design. Starting over on something the size of the Mars would be quite a job.
@@flyingbeaver57 there's a lot of people not working now it'd be a great job maker to make new Mars water bombers by the hundreds. With the Mars water bombers you only have to get close and if you fight it like a war and have one after another every minute over the fire. Get everything wet in the surrounding area as well the fire will not spread and your cooling off the air as well. In between them have the yellow water bombers that are made in Canada
Love the ducks, but helicopter bucketing and FW water bombers have a very different role. Have time directing ducks and lots of Bambi time. Your cycle times are way off on rotary. Ducks take ten to fifteen minutes with lots of variables. Helicopters, its minutes per cycle but again lots of variables. Helicopters are the workhorses on fires, we aim at trees not forests and we do so much more. Ducks are the knockdown firepower. Wheel based FW is just for show, generally not terribly effective. More hot air than they are worth. Almost got a crew whipped out by those one pass wonders. Its a good day when the Ducks are inbound. The most effective firefighting equipment is the guy on the ground, he puts out the fire. The rest is just support. Here is a tip to anyone that disagrees as i suspect there will be many. Have you spent any time on the fire-line??? Shoutout to sprinklers, best tool on the line.
@@polyus_studios for sure, no worries. Would love to see the 212 etc. And the failure that is the 412. Takes a team to do the job, not just one person or aircraft type. Enjoying the series. Cheers.
The idea of the water bomber, and the way it is used in Canada, is that it gets out to the fire in a remote area and hits it long before any fire crew gets there and before it has a chance to grow. It is way faster than a helicopter as well as carrying more water. How long from an alarm does it take them to deploy fire crews to a remote area? If it is really remote it might take days whereas the airplane can be there in an hour.
@@sblack48 initial attack is most often done with a helicopter and crew. Its called Initial Attack for a reason. Then an assessment is done by forestry/mne etc. to determine what resources are deployed. Sometimes but not often, an assessment is done by birddog aircraft and then bombers. This is the exception in my experience. Bombers take a lot of time to get going, the flight time is not what consumes the most of that. There is no substitute for boots in the ground. All other assets are merely support. Helicopters, Ducks and then the one pass wonder guys, in that order of importance to the crews.
@@sblack48 true, i have seen them do that as well. Had them almost kill my fire crew on a fire when a fire boss launched on a ghost and decided to drop with bombers on my fire on the way back without clearance. It was close. I got started and in the air just in time. Fire suppression is a team sport, there is no one asset that can put out a fire, other than a guy with a shovel and pisspack. Smallest fire i was on was 1 M2. Dropped the crew, couple of buckets and done. IA can be exciting but often its a lot of boredom. Used to pay the bills though. Glad the crews are finally getting a break out west. Its been a long summer.
This is one of you finest documentaries and I totally love it. I flew in one CL 215 in 1971 as 7 year old. One was stationed on Summit Lake about an hour's drive NW of Prince George, during the entire fire season. At the end they offered me a quick fly about. I'm pleased with all the background info you did.
Correction: at 7:26, it is stated that the tail was revised to "improve aerodynamics". That is not entirely correct. The modified tail is to *recover* some of the controllability and stability lost due to more powerful engines being located closer to the center-line than the original piston engines and having the sidewash hit the vertical tail. The "finlets" I suggested as some kind of a joke, turns out management liked the idea. Then, there was a bad coupling between the vertical and horizontal, when one stalling would drag the other -- so our manager came up with the idea of the bullet (even if the apex joint I had the lads make for the wind tunnel model proved even more effective and far less ugly, management was set on the bullet). The slat on the right side inner leading edge of the horizontal tail was yet another band-aid, but that was at the time of the CL-415 implementation, and I had been assigned to another project at that point, so never really bothered to know all the details. The plane could have been made so much better -- and possibly simpler and cheaper -- if management had not restricted what could be changed, and how, 30 years ago...
For me, those Canadair and the DC-3 are the most beautyful aircrafts in history. Funny thing, I have an RC model of the Canadair, with 3000W power plant but i didn't put the “bullet” on the empennage. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TAv0-M1bMro.html and the encounter on the first flight day. 01:10 on this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IJ2sCYJPYHY.html I don't get what was your alternative to the bullet but i like a lot all the other finlets and shapes, jokes or not. Other very important part I wasn't fully aware and had to install/increase later was the spray rails, the bow throws a huge lot of water to the props just before getting on the step, when still plowing. It was when I really noticed the importance of those “big” water spray fins the real one has. Many thanks for your part on giving us such a gorgeous machine. For me, it's an art masterpiece, no joke or exaggeration.
It is quite something to see a half dozen working together in Croatia. You have exceptional pilots and the way you use this plane is an example to the world.
@@Stephengirty Not really. There were the Short company flying boats and others all with similar designs. And actually they are all based upon the Felixstowe FA2, The first production "seaplane/flying boat". All future designs were based upon it. The streamlined boat like hull and the high placed wing. and wing floats. And the Martin Mariner was a superior aircraft to the PBY.
Converting the 215 and 415 put food on my table, I love opening my eyes in the morning and seeing these planes on the floor. I to have flown them and they are a robust fun aircraft to fly. May they fly for years to come.
A few years ago one of these planes flew over our Campo house, Spain, being deployed on a forest fire a few kilometres from us. As the aircraft flew over my wife waved...I said, don't be silly the pilot will never see you....within seconds the pilot 'waggled' the wings a few time...I then received that 'I told you so' look
Excellent informational video! I am a Viking Air engineer and this was a solid recap of our Canadian Aviation history. ✈️ Minor fix on 10:58, this acquisition was done in 2006. 2016 was the Amphibious program acquisition.
Since you're an engineer at Viking, I thought I'd ask-is it possible to explain in simple language, for someone who is neither an engineer nor a pilot (which will soon become obvious to you), not even an aviation fanatic, how the planes maintain stability when in the process of scooping up the water and rising again? I imagine the water sloshing around, for lack of a better way of putting it, creating instability for pilots. Or, does the forward motion of the plane provide enough force to prevent movement of the collected water? Does the excess flow out the side vents bring the cache to a level point with no room to slosh as it settles? Do I just fundamentally misunderstand what's going on in that process, in the innards of that plane? So many questions . . . I realize it may not be possible to dumb it down enough that I'll get it, but if you can, you'd satisfy some growing curiosity for me. In any case, I'm grateful to all those who've taken time to study and learn and put their skills to such an important use that benefits so many.
I worked at US Coast Guard Air Station Miami at Opa Locka Airport, Florida, from 1988 to 1995. During that time there was one of these water bombers -- the turboprop version IIRC -- at the airport, and I drove over and took a look at it. What I think amazed me THE MOST was how *small* the two water scoops on the bottom of the fuselage are. Although when you think about it, with water being incompressible it does make sense.
Many years ago I was able to stand underneath the flight path of water bombers, about 200 metres before the fire that they were fighting. As the planes hit the edge of the fire you could see how desperately low they were flying and how they were being thrown around by the air currents of the file. Amazing stuff to watch! Good documentary.
My city was dead to see the 415 production end and Bombardier leaving us here inNorth Bay. It destroyed the aviation potential and expansion that was happening here before Bombardier left. I've said it a million times. The world underestimates how amazing Canadian aviation innovation and production is. We've produced airframes that have pushed aviation decades ahead in an airframes production. Canada needs to double down on aviation innovation and production again. We could be the #1 world leaders again.
Hey, a fellow North Bay-ite! At least Voyageur Aviation seems to be doing well for itself, lots of work going on there. And I agree, with Bombardier selling off all their aviation production save business jets, I think Canada is once again falling behind in the aviation industry.
@@_Hoagie voyageur is....but they are doing tear down for disposal and upgrade/maintenance. And they aren't the size and recognized company internationally as Bombardier was....so look at the aviation park here. 95% of those new businesses aren't aviation related. Just built as it was cheaper taxes and permits and what not.
@@radarmike6713 I was more meaning the impact of the business of North Bay specifically, but I get your point. And the industrial park was never marketed specifically for aviation, just that it was right on the airport. Again, unfortunate, but I'm sure the city is glad to have local industry regardless of the sector.
My father worked at Canadair in the 60’s as head of the legal team in charge of sales. Later, as VP he finalized sakes of this wonderful aircraft to France… and Quebec. Interestingly, the final sale ro Quebec involved bribes to Daniel Johnson’s Party.
As much as i don't like to speak for others, i think every spaniard that cares for the forest that is an integral part of the natural beauty of the country loves the Canadair firefigther planes. And anyone who has taken even a small look at the brave crews and incredible machines helping to keep those sadly recurring fires at bay. This aircraft is beloved here in Spain, to a point where a few years ago a huge controversy exploded over the fact that they were purchased by the nation but all aspects of the operation were subcontracted, sadly at a time when the forest fires took more trees, wildlife, property and human loss than ever. I think the situation improved sligthly when they went back to be operated by pilots from the air force ( ejercito del aire ), wich displayed time and time again a level of dedication and professionalism above and beyond. Of course helped by the outstanding airframes. I hope they continue for serve for many years to come, amazing airframe, too many times overlooked. By the way, you can distinguish most of the times wich images are from Spain operated planes by looking at the tail, the large "x" in black over white is the marker of the Spanish Air Army ( literal translation ). Named, no idea why, St. Andrew Cross.
@@JohnHughesChampigny Thanks, i did know that. What i dont understand is why is used in the spanish air force. Maybe the catholic mania that every arm of the army needs to have a Saint as a patron.
As a kid, I saw one crash into a mountainside in corse (france) near Calvi. I think it was in 2004 or 2005. Not sure if it was a 215 or a 415, but my guess is a 415 because I cant remember it sound like a radial engined model. Sadly the crew did not survive. I‘ll never forget this. It‘s also always been my favorite plane. Only recently came to enter one in a museum, which was a great experience.
What's the water-delivery comparison for the CL-215/415/515 vs Martin Mars water bomber? I drive past the Philippine Mars and Hawaii Mars at Sproat Lake, BC on my way to go surfing every summer.
Fun fact. The funny turned up wing tips are not some kind of weird winglet, they are "dihedral plates" installed to restore aerodynamic dihedral effect lost when the flat nacelles of the turboprops inhibited lateral flow across the fuselage, spoiling the effect of the T wing to fuselage joint and reducing roll stability.
I love your videos, and this is one of my favourite planes. During my youth, I spent 4 summers in Gimli, with these always on the tarmac, and I got to tour them then. Which for the even younger me, the one who grew up watching Tail Spin and loving amphibious aircraft, loved even more. Super excited to watch this one!
Hey, Gimli! Just spend two weeks there visiting my mom. You'll be happy to know they still fly out of the airport. Grew up watching these fly out of Winnipeg, always loved the colours as a kid.
@@perotekku I'm glad to hear! They get repaired here in Calgary, so I still get to see them, but I do miss being an Air Cadet and hearing them roar down the runway.
Damn. Here's a story giving a perfect example of an original and highly innovative Canadian design being produced, and later extensively revised and upgraded - twice - to the Bombardier Cl-415 and Viking CL-515. Yes, we knew how to do it back then, and we've continued to learn and improve this amazing aircraft, and it shows. We've heard very broad hints from operators flying (relatively) short routes to out-of-the way spots, and how the turboprops currently fulfilling that task are all due to be retired or EOL'd. Which begs the question: The DHC-2 Beaver developed in response to a very clear need for bush-flying aviation in Canada. Here's another shining example of a true Canadian success story. Why can't our domestic aircraft industry produce an aircraft that would take the place of the retiring Embraers, Dash-8's, etc? Not as a Private business/Government project, but strictly as a private venture. There are ,many novel design features on earlier DHC and Canadair planes that never were produced, but there are plenty of good ideas. We could do this. We should do this.
The airplane is an obsession of mine. I look for all content and do regular searches for up to date information. This video is the best I've seen. Well done.
Two CL-215s were used to fight the Hagersville tire fire (south of Hamilton Ontario) back in 1990. As I recall they were operated bu the Ontario department of Lands and Forests. That fire burned for 17 days.
All your videos are beautifully well done. The imagery, research, editing and voice just snap together to paint an amazing experience. Edit: Thank you for sharing 👍👍
Good video, but water bombers don't put out forest fires, ground crews do.. water bombers provide critical support and can fulfill niche roles - but without boots on the ground you won't stop it long term
Thank you for this. I was involved with the original radial to turboprop conversion test program. Been enjoying all of your videos, damn fine coverage.
Thank you for all the effort and work putting together this channel and personally this particular episode. I spent the best flying years of my life flying the 215 & 415 here in Canada.
I have seen them for the fist time somewhere in the 70's. We were on holyday in France and I was in my canoe on a big lake. Suddenly a sirene started and I had no clue why. Until I saw a big yellow and red airplane coming over the hill and it descended in my direction. I did my best to get out of the way as fast as possible (at that moment I realist why there were floats in the water) and that was just on time. Very cool to see them so close by.
A famous french tall tale is firemen finding a mostly naked burnt body after a forest fire and unable to work out how he got there -- only to realise he'd been scooped up by a canadair from a lake and dropped on the fire (this is, of course, impossible).
Last one produced in 1990. Those CL-215 that are still around have been continuously modified and improved. The CL-415 a. Vast improvement version was also designed search and rescue and utility transport. has ceased production even through production should have been continued. The homeland security and the department of interior should have bought at least 200
Great presentation. Thanks to our brothers to the north for developing such great utility aircraft, including these water bombers. I see them on the ramp every time I fly over Van Nuys on my way into Burbank, CA.
There really is something magical about flying boats. I grew up next to a family that owned an old Grumman Goose. I loved that plane. Loved it so much that it convinced me to be a pilot. I told the head of the family on a number of occasions, that if he ever wanted to sell, contact me. Long story short, he died and his kids sold the plane to the first person asked and it's since been scrapped. I love knowing that there are still good flying boats out there. Thanks for this one.
Yes. But now that Viking have re-started production, and with the forest fire situation worldwide getting no better, I don't think we're out of the game just yet.
For several years now, Canada has struggled to control wildfires in almost every province. Canada has now been embarrassed by it's NATO allies for failing to meet its' NATO commitment to spend 2 percent of Canada's GDP on it's military. Looks like a strong opportunity for Canada to build and purchase a few hundred water bombing aircraft under a military budget expenditure for both domestic and foreign service. The expenditure will take Canada closer to reaching its' 2 percent of GDP spending commitment and will greatly help the increasing need to fight wildfires, which are becoming more common as the Canadian climate undergoes changes.
Is the Malaysian Maritime Agency's CL-415MP conversion done before 2017? Because they still using it as a waterbomber to prevent forest fires in Indonesia on that time.
Growing up in Québec, these aircraft, scooping water directly in lakes, were the normal. In French, they were just the cistern-airplanes. Then, I discovered some places used helicopters, and wondered why when the cistern-airplanes could obviously do much better. Then I met my wife, who's from France. She knew these planes as Canadairs. The French Science-and-Tech-for-kids show "C'est pas sorcier" did a feature on those planes, calling them Canadairs. That's when I realized how special these planes are. It's incredible that they still don't have competition. Of course, one needs to recall that not all places have suitable lakes lying around for scooping water to drop on a nearby fire. I don't know if the planes can take in saltwater, but waves are an obvious concern.
Great video. Growing up in Ville Saint-Laurent just across from the former Cartierville airport, I can confirm that the airfield was located well within the boundaries of Ville Saint-Laurent. This is a common misconception as Cartierville borders Ville Saint-Laurent. The former air field is now a large housing development with only a small section of the airstrip still in use, repurposed as an access road for Bombardier.
3:25 "focus on fire-fighting" the best aircraft designs are the ones that have *one* mission, and everything revolves around it. The "jack or all trades" has killed many projects, even before the prototype takes shape.
Just think, if Canada and especially BC took the lead in meaningful fire protection instead of fostering bs and turning it into a bureaucratic self serving entity we could have had something viable that supported Canadian manufacturing. A brilliant piece overshadowed by today’s sociology student agenda and cartoon based solutions.
What pisses me off is that American aviation has not built something better and cheaper. The consolidation of American aviation and defense industries has failed us .
good vid just 2 let you all know fire fighter early 90s .When hear them coming get the fuck outa there snap trees off 20 inch diamiter crazy and scary lol
